Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Dead is dead, yo.
Also, a lot of soldiers in the building ARE dead. We killed them.
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Also, a lot of soldiers in the building ARE dead. We killed them.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
This game is a solid 8/10.
Very much reminded me of playing a PS2 game.
Very much reminded me of playing a PS2 game.
Kev Kev
Member
Kev Kev
Member
why not a 9 or a 10? i also put it at an 8 btw, just curious of your pros/cons
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
1 Point deducted for the filler levels where you are forced to battle random monsters without much story progression.
1 Point deducted for Barrett. Took me out of scenes. Great character to play with though. Probably the most useful one.
1 Point deducted for Barrett. Took me out of scenes. Great character to play with though. Probably the most useful one.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
I don’t really see all the “character has visions of the future” = “time travel”. That’s feels like a big jump to conclusions.
People can have premonitions about the future without it meaning they traveled through time or into an alternate dimensions or whatever. I mean Sarah Conner has that vision of the world ending in T2 yet she is not a time traveler in that movie. Anakin has a premonition of Padme dying in the future but it doesn’t mean he time traveled to the future.
Usually prophetic visions take place in the head of the person having them. Impossible to show that without some artistic license.
People can have premonitions about the future without it meaning they traveled through time or into an alternate dimensions or whatever. I mean Sarah Conner has that vision of the world ending in T2 yet she is not a time traveler in that movie. Anakin has a premonition of Padme dying in the future but it doesn’t mean he time traveled to the future.
Usually prophetic visions take place in the head of the person having them. Impossible to show that without some artistic license.
He vanishes from the game 7 seconds after he says that, imo he basically says “I’m out of here” but in a creepy dramatic way.
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Geki-D
Banned
I dunno. It seems like at several points the game tells us that actually beating people in combat just OKs them, like the security guys who have Johnny.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
KO'd people don't dissolve into the lifestream.
At any rate, however, dead or not, the grunts are just grunts, and are inconsequential to the overall story, which is why the whispers don't give a damn about those scrubs.
Boneless
Member
So the whispers care about the story now?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I'm not sure what you mean.
Why be concerned with the random trash mob enemies who have no impact on the story?
Vawn
Banned
Well, I guess that could make sense. Sephiroth seems to want Cloud to change fate that ultimately leads to Sephiroth's downfall.
If Cloud stops Sephiroth from killing Aerith, that further changes fate.
The question is then, why doesn't Sephiroth just not kill her? Perhaps, the Sephiroth we see in game one and the Sephiroth we encounter the rest of the game (when we normally should based on the OG) are NOT the same. Maybe Sephiroth from part one is actually a time traveler, alternate-universe, etc version, who just came to disrupt the timeline.
Who knows? But, I'll still be ticked if Aerith does somehow survive.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
The really cool thing is we will go into the next part not knowing if she would survive or not. Imo that’s a pretty neat thing to do.
TheAssist
Member
stop calling everything you personally dont like "bullshit". Let other people have fun interpreting the story. Its fine if you dont like it and dont want to think about it, that still doesnt make it bullshit.
TheAssist
Member
The sephiroth in this game is sephiroth from advent children. I think thats a pretty confirmed statement. They even play his advent children theme and everything.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
Yes a million times. I’m fine with people offering their own interpretations. That’s part of the fun of art. But please don’t turn it into a crusade where only your reading is the correct one and other people need to be belittled into accepting it.
Vawn
Banned
Ok. I honestly don't remember that movie much, as I didn't like it.
But, still I am not sure the Sephiroth we meet from here on (when we normally would in the OG) will be the same one.
As if Sephiroth wasn't a confusing enough character already.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I think that's part of the genius here. As writers, the devs got to have their cake and eat it too - capitalize on the nostalgia of an already completed work by keeping most of it faithful and expanding on it, while changing juuuuust enough so that the audience doesn't know what the hell is going to happen, thus renewing their sense of suspense.
For better or worse.
They could still fuck it up. It's entirely possible.
Paracelsus
Member
He's alive.
And yes, him being alive, Aerith sensing timelines and timelineS being a thing at all is bullshit.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It is unclear if he is alive in the player's timeline or a separate one. If he is alive in the player's timeline, and assuming Back to the Future rules, a lot should have changed for the party at that instant. But it didn't. What remains to be seen is if the altered Stamp is also carried over to the player's reality.
Mysteries for the next installment.
Why?
Nickolaidas
Member
Just beaten the game, and came here to talk about the spoilers. After flipping through ten pages of bitching about the changes, I'll just post my opinion now.
I consider this an amazing improvement over the original, which is no small feat. At this point, I'm not entirely sure if the haters hate it because it made bad changes, or because it simply made changes, good or bad.
Most of the characters had amazing development and I especially loved the sense of comradery between the main characters. I loved how they teamed up, both in-game as well in cutscenes to do epic shit. I loved the synergy of it all. The point in Hojo's lab where Red runs to go under the door before it closes and Cloud throws a large chunk of metal to hold it in place - all happening in three seconds - or when Tifa, Aerith, Barret and Cloud would do their part for the team, each would get a killing blow scene against a boss, one saving another from death … that was some good shit, and what I love about stories with team members who become family.
The characters themselves are amazing, with much more care and personality into them. Themes like friendship, duty, guilt and love are much more stronger in this one and makes you ache for their troubles and laugh at their awkwardness. There is a separate chemistry between every character and I loved how they interacted. There are some translation issues and a couple of cringy lines, but most of it was awesomesauce for me.
The battle system is amazing, and I can't wait to replay the game to perfect my materia and gain Bahamut. The most enjoyable FF battle system I've ever played. It's like Devil May Cry and Baldur's Gate I had sex in a motel and had a beautiful, hyper-active baby. I love it.
Now, for the changes in the story. First of all, I completely missed the fact that this is a reboot storyline ala MK9, with the old game being the past and this being a separate timeline (not entirely sold on this theory, but if it's true, I 99% expect Aerith to survive or be resurrected - and wouldn't THAT piss off a lot of old fans …). If this makes a better story, I'm ok with it. I mean, Sephiroth being an angry boy with mommy issues is kinda lame today, and him being someone willing to recraft/defy Fate itself (because this is how much of a badass he is) is more acceptable to me.
However, I have two-three parts of the game where I believe Nomura jumped the gun and made a mistake.
1. Cait Sith appearing on the plate crashing and hitting his fists in the ground. This immediately makes him look as a good guy which lessens the WTF is this guy? WHY IS HE ON MY PARTY!?!? feel you had in the original. However, Given the reason he joins you in the original, I guess they HAVE to do something better with him. That excuse won't make any sense in today's storytelling.
2. Sephiroth's early appearance. While it was epic and amazing, I always look at remakes as both a veteran and someone who goes to this game out of the blue. For a guy who comes here uninitiated, the final battle with Sephiroth lacks OOMF and impact. The player doesn't know who he is, doesn't know his connection with Cloud, doesn't know why there is such deep animosity, and the final battle will feel like, "Yeah, I'm fighting this guy and I'm supposed to feel an intense hatred for him, but … eh, I don't really know what happened …" I understand that Nomura had to make an epic final battle for a game whose story never ended at this point so it needs a form of epic closure, but we just had like, six boss encounters in the past two hours. There was no need to throw in Sephiroth as well. The ending was purely intended for veterans, and it shows.
3. Zack's appearance. Terribly unnecessary, and it ruins one of the biggest surprises in the original. Now the player KNOWS there's this guy, and the fact that Cloud doesn't mention him will definitely clue in smart players (Zack having Cloud's weapon, Reno laughing at Cloud's claim that's he's 1st Class, a mere grunt talking to Cloud as if they're pals) that Cloud isn't nearly the person he claims to be, and he most likely did something to Zack. Actually, the scene with the soldier recognizing Cloud at Shinra's headquarters and Reno's mocking was enough; now they did too much and it ruins the YOURWHOLELIFEISALIE moment in the original.
All in all, I consider this game amazing and I'm very happy I pre-ordered it. Definitely getting the other parts too.
I wonder if the latter parts will be Chapters 19 and so on (and digital only), making FFVII not take the FFVII-2, FFVII-3 route, and just be FFVII-Remake.
EDIT: One last thing I wanted to add: When Aerith told Cloud "You can't fall in love with me," my jaw hit the fucking floor. In the original, it was never stated that Cloud loved Tifa, or Aerith, or the girls loving him. It was implied, as if it was a fairytale for kids, with undertones for the adults to catch up. Even in Advent Children, there was no mention of those three being in love. There was a bond, but it was never stated. Here, cards are off. Chips have fallen. Aerith talks to Cloud about him falling in love with her. I can't wait for the scene where Cloud and Tifa are sitting in the canyon, Tifa looking at him and telling him, "I'm in love with you." My heart will skip about ten beats. This was something that always annoyed me in JRPGs, why the characters wouldn't flat out say it - which was one of the reasons I adored the love triangle between Ryudo, Milennia, and Elena in Grandia II.
Fun fact: My brother never finished FFVII because when he saw in my playthrough that Aerith dies, he didn't want to finish it, because she was his favorite, as mine was Tifa. He told me, "I don't want her to die and leave my party forever. I'm stopping my playthrough." That's some major dedication to fave characters, right there.
I consider this an amazing improvement over the original, which is no small feat. At this point, I'm not entirely sure if the haters hate it because it made bad changes, or because it simply made changes, good or bad.
Most of the characters had amazing development and I especially loved the sense of comradery between the main characters. I loved how they teamed up, both in-game as well in cutscenes to do epic shit. I loved the synergy of it all. The point in Hojo's lab where Red runs to go under the door before it closes and Cloud throws a large chunk of metal to hold it in place - all happening in three seconds - or when Tifa, Aerith, Barret and Cloud would do their part for the team, each would get a killing blow scene against a boss, one saving another from death … that was some good shit, and what I love about stories with team members who become family.
The characters themselves are amazing, with much more care and personality into them. Themes like friendship, duty, guilt and love are much more stronger in this one and makes you ache for their troubles and laugh at their awkwardness. There is a separate chemistry between every character and I loved how they interacted. There are some translation issues and a couple of cringy lines, but most of it was awesomesauce for me.
The battle system is amazing, and I can't wait to replay the game to perfect my materia and gain Bahamut. The most enjoyable FF battle system I've ever played. It's like Devil May Cry and Baldur's Gate I had sex in a motel and had a beautiful, hyper-active baby. I love it.
Now, for the changes in the story. First of all, I completely missed the fact that this is a reboot storyline ala MK9, with the old game being the past and this being a separate timeline (not entirely sold on this theory, but if it's true, I 99% expect Aerith to survive or be resurrected - and wouldn't THAT piss off a lot of old fans …). If this makes a better story, I'm ok with it. I mean, Sephiroth being an angry boy with mommy issues is kinda lame today, and him being someone willing to recraft/defy Fate itself (because this is how much of a badass he is) is more acceptable to me.
However, I have two-three parts of the game where I believe Nomura jumped the gun and made a mistake.
1. Cait Sith appearing on the plate crashing and hitting his fists in the ground. This immediately makes him look as a good guy which lessens the WTF is this guy? WHY IS HE ON MY PARTY!?!? feel you had in the original. However, Given the reason he joins you in the original, I guess they HAVE to do something better with him. That excuse won't make any sense in today's storytelling.
2. Sephiroth's early appearance. While it was epic and amazing, I always look at remakes as both a veteran and someone who goes to this game out of the blue. For a guy who comes here uninitiated, the final battle with Sephiroth lacks OOMF and impact. The player doesn't know who he is, doesn't know his connection with Cloud, doesn't know why there is such deep animosity, and the final battle will feel like, "Yeah, I'm fighting this guy and I'm supposed to feel an intense hatred for him, but … eh, I don't really know what happened …" I understand that Nomura had to make an epic final battle for a game whose story never ended at this point so it needs a form of epic closure, but we just had like, six boss encounters in the past two hours. There was no need to throw in Sephiroth as well. The ending was purely intended for veterans, and it shows.
3. Zack's appearance. Terribly unnecessary, and it ruins one of the biggest surprises in the original. Now the player KNOWS there's this guy, and the fact that Cloud doesn't mention him will definitely clue in smart players (Zack having Cloud's weapon, Reno laughing at Cloud's claim that's he's 1st Class, a mere grunt talking to Cloud as if they're pals) that Cloud isn't nearly the person he claims to be, and he most likely did something to Zack. Actually, the scene with the soldier recognizing Cloud at Shinra's headquarters and Reno's mocking was enough; now they did too much and it ruins the YOURWHOLELIFEISALIE moment in the original.
All in all, I consider this game amazing and I'm very happy I pre-ordered it. Definitely getting the other parts too.
I wonder if the latter parts will be Chapters 19 and so on (and digital only), making FFVII not take the FFVII-2, FFVII-3 route, and just be FFVII-Remake.
EDIT: One last thing I wanted to add: When Aerith told Cloud "You can't fall in love with me," my jaw hit the fucking floor. In the original, it was never stated that Cloud loved Tifa, or Aerith, or the girls loving him. It was implied, as if it was a fairytale for kids, with undertones for the adults to catch up. Even in Advent Children, there was no mention of those three being in love. There was a bond, but it was never stated. Here, cards are off. Chips have fallen. Aerith talks to Cloud about him falling in love with her. I can't wait for the scene where Cloud and Tifa are sitting in the canyon, Tifa looking at him and telling him, "I'm in love with you." My heart will skip about ten beats. This was something that always annoyed me in JRPGs, why the characters wouldn't flat out say it - which was one of the reasons I adored the love triangle between Ryudo, Milennia, and Elena in Grandia II.
Fun fact: My brother never finished FFVII because when he saw in my playthrough that Aerith dies, he didn't want to finish it, because she was his favorite, as mine was Tifa. He told me, "I don't want her to die and leave my party forever. I'm stopping my playthrough." That's some major dedication to fave characters, right there.
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Nitty_Grimes
Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Friends, how does backtracking work?
I am in Shinra HQ VR battle thing and next to go back to wall market to fight in colosseum, is it only in chapter select you can do this? And as long as I finish chapter 17 where I am now, all the Shinra VR battle missions I’ve done will carry over?
I am in Shinra HQ VR battle thing and next to go back to wall market to fight in colosseum, is it only in chapter select you can do this? And as long as I finish chapter 17 where I am now, all the Shinra VR battle missions I’ve done will carry over?
Boneless
Member
They are trying to tell you is that it's a different timeline by showing the different stamp.
I am curious how they expect to create the same emotional impact as the original. They failed with the Shinra building, by creating subpar version of the original, how are they going to be able to grab us with deaths while there is always another timeline where things are different?
base
Banned
A Centra can speak with the Planet only while he/she reaches the Lifestream? Maybe that. If Aeris survives she can't summon the Lifestream to prevent Meteor from destroying the Planet. Just my thinking.
Aeris knew Sephiroth would kill her. That's why she left alone knowing the danger.
Vawn
Banned
I don't remember Cloud knowing about the Ancients in the original at that point, but you could be right.
base
Banned
In the original Sephiroth told him that he's a descendant of the Ancients. Cloud seemed to know something/heard something. In the remake Barret got some knowledge of the Centra.
Lethal01
Member
2.I don't think seeing him early is a mistake, we don't know how deep the hate goes but for a totally new play, the first thing they see of him is him talking about killing Cloud's mother. I don't think saving the battle for when you know everything about him is the best move, Thinking of Vergil from Devil May Cry. You fight him 3 times and every time the fight just gets better as you learn more and it's exciting to see the clear gap between you close
3. I think the amount of people that are gonna get any big epiphanies due to this scene are extremely small, almost non existant. Smart one will know that Cloud isn't who he says he is but they will still probably just see Zack as a fellow soldier who saved Cloud at most. People who figure it out will figure it out due to looking online.
Nickolaidas
Member
2. Compare the last time you fight Vergil in that time, with the last time you fight Sephiroth in THIS game. And no, sequels do not count, because this specific final battle must be judged as this game's final last battle. And it is horribly, horribly lacking in context, for a player who knows nothing about the original. I consider it a flaw, and I think Nomura did it because he feared long-time fans would complain about having a Final Fantasy VII game without a Cloud/Sephiroth fight. Or maybe he did because he thought it was a cool idea. I personally think it was a mistake.
3. My problem with that scene lies in the fact that people may have had a couple of doubts on whether Cloud is who he says he is. The Zack scene however, clearly will make people suspect that something happened to/with that raven-haired guy. In the original, when Sephiroth starts showing photos and says shit about Zack, we can root for Cloud and believe Sephiroth's full of shit. We want to believe Cloud, and just like him, we want to cling on to the lie until the last minute. Zack may be a fiction Sephiroth pulls out of his ass to screw with Cloud. Now in the remake, the second Sephiroth mentions Zack, the player will immediately buy it and immediately see Cloud for the 'fraud' that he is. This was one of the most mind-fuck what-is-real-what-is-false moments in the original, and now you get a major plot point shown to you that immediately resolves some of the future tension - you KNOW that Zack is real, and you'll IMMEDIATELY believe Sephiroth's claims. In Nomura's thirst to pay homage to the original's moments and characters, I think he somewhat ruined that scene.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Actually that fight was someone else's idea. Nomura ended up approving it though.
Nickolaidas
Member
I stand half-corrected, but still think it was a mistake.
Boneless
Member
Some good points made here. I am surprised it needs to be spelled out like this, I mean I really like the game but it's pretty obvious the changes made to storytelling made the story a lot worse. Even small changes like Shinra blowing up their own reactor is just slightly worse.
It's just surprising why they would do this, because it costs Square Enix more resources to change the story, and they could've known there would be a high likelyhood to end up with a story that is worse. There is likely ego involved, which I understand, but you'd need some serious talent to think you can top a storyline that has been renowned for 25 years.
Nickolaidas
Member
I'm more annoyed with the fact that the president of Shinra gives zero fucks about the fact that he murdered thousands of people and probably made Shinra's stocks plummet all the way down to the shitter, with no clear reason of why he did it, other than the fact he *might* want to go to war with Wutai for Round 2. We can see that soldiers and civilians of the upper plates feel bad about what happened with the lower-classed citizens, would it hurt to make president Shinra a more realistic character by having him lament over the death of his own people for the sake of one-upping Wutai in a second war in order to ensure the safety of Midgar? And why does Shinra want to go to war with Wutai when they're busy searching for the promised land? Shouldn't they secure the Promised Land first, THEN use the unlimited Mako energy to destroy Wutai and ensure their victory, revenge and safety?
NecrosaroIII
Ask me about my terrible takes on Star Trek characters
Never understood the hate for cait. Sure his limit break sucks but his fine
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
A lot of subtext on the original had the potential to be missed since it involves interacting with all the townspeople.
SOLDIER
SOLDIER is like a den of monsters, don't go inside.Zack Fair SOLDIER is the elite fighting force of the Shinra Electric Power Company in the Final Fantasy VII universe. Its members are advanced super-soldiers with superhuman strength, speed, and agility. Much stronger than the Shinra...
finalfantasy.fandom.com
It's not as explicit as what the president said, but it's hinted at. It's also made front and center in Crisis Core, but again, that is a specific type of degradation that is related to Project G specimens.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
tyrants have done this repeatedly throughout history. a false flag event. and it doesn't even take a tyrant to murder thousands of people for people to not give a fuck. look at defenders of politicains irl. there are people who decide to go to war and end up killing far more than that. wars are very profitable, you pay lots of money to make weapons that are meant to be destroyed. effectively you are creating a product that costs the most also and has the shortest shelf life. money is often a reason enough for w villains.
if you still need a reason, you may be missing some of the societal critiques of the game. i see Shinra as a sort of futuristic cyberpunk dystopian commentary on the technocratic military industrial complex. they not only act as a power service provider, but a standing military, experimental bioweapons research, they blocked out the sky like Mr. Burns (classic villain move), etc. all kinds of very profitable, morally bankrupt industries in one world threatening villain. again, this is all stuff that happens in the real world. FF7 has a lot of commentaries on the real world. that is why this stuff is in there.
the way i see the story changes is like. you are a band like Hall & Oatest and you had a bunch of hit singles in the 80s. say it is 2006 and you are playing a concert and you play all of your hit songs, except you add a string section, extended guitar solos, and song medleys here and there. some people are just mad that the band played a version of the extended 12" remix of "Maneater" with a 10 min jam at the end, rather than the album version. it's just, if you are there and demanding the same people to play the same song the exact same way 20 years later, you're kind of being entitled and unreasonable.
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Shin
Banned
Can grab Tifa's theme for free on PS JP.
store.playstation.com
FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE Tifa Theme
<b>内容の説明</b><br>「FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE」のPS4用オリジナルテーマです。<br><br>
store.playstation.com
Boneless
Member
Why bother with sensible story telling when you can throw in time travel and faith and stuff, KAPOW!
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Nickolaidas
Member
I don't have a problem with time travel if done with modesty, or even alternate dimensions. It's the multiverse clusterfucks I hate - where there are suddenly 50 versions of the same character forming an army against some major cosmic threat. I mean, seriously, if Final Fantasy VII Remake ends up pulling a shit with like, ten Aeriths (I'm the Aerith that married Cloud, I'm the Aerith who never got killed by Sephiroth, I'm the Aerith who married Wedge instead of Cloud, I'm the Aerith who cut her hair short, I'm the Aerith who gained a few pounds by eating a lot of rice), I will literally throw my PS5 out of the window, not caring whom I may kill with it.
Now, the MK9-MK11 time travel soft reboot thing was tolerant because there's at best ONE mirror character and that's only in MK11 where they occupy the same timeline.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Those themes don't necessarily negate "sensible story telling", especially when you're in the realm of sci-fi fantasy.
Lethal01
Member
A lot of the context it's lacking is context that a first-time player would not even realize their missing. I think this battle has tons of impact even if the following battle will be even better.
It's like Harry potters first encounter with voldemort, there may be tons of details missing for first time viewers and tons of stuff they don't even realize they don't know.. But fighting someone while they are still mysterious is a great way to end the first game imo.
I agree it may have been done for simple reasons but I think the end result is great.
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MadNinjaZero
Member
I haven’t read through the thread yet but am I alone in getting Chrono Cross vibes from the ending?
In my mind, I am mapping Aerith to Kid/Schala, Sephiroth to Lavos ,and Cloud to Serge.
I understand the approach Square has taken is polarizing and there’s now a great risk introduced to the narrative but I remain hopeful.
It’s almost as if it Is a sequel to two of my most favored games and I cannot be too mad at that.
In my mind, I am mapping Aerith to Kid/Schala, Sephiroth to Lavos ,and Cloud to Serge.
I understand the approach Square has taken is polarizing and there’s now a great risk introduced to the narrative but I remain hopeful.
It’s almost as if it Is a sequel to two of my most favored games and I cannot be too mad at that.
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stickkidsam
Member
You seem to be forgetting that the original story/timeline already happened. These aren't simply premonitions of a possible future, but events that have already happened.
Personally I think Sephiroth has traveled to the past using the lifestream (which is connected to the flow of time itself). Due to Aerith being a Cetra she is in tune with the planet and sees flashes of the future. It's the only way Sephiroth would act as he does and know so much.
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Dacon
Banned
Aerith knows way too much herself, which is confirmed in the ultimania, and apparently has the ability to pass some of that knowledge to others herself, what with Red getting magic knowledge of the whispers and Cloud seeing the future after she touched him.
It's a bit ridiculous.
stickkidsam
Member
Yeah time travel is always a wild card. I'm keeping my hopes up but I'm really glad they're treating this as a sequel and not a remake since this is the direction they've chosen.
If there's one thing I wish they'd have handled better it's the whispers. It's alright that they're a force of nature, but they always take away from what happening or overstay their welcome. They feel like a thinly veiled hand wave for things happening differently and would've been better off not being there at all.
That final battle in particular should've been a conversation (not necessarily talking) between the party and the planet before facing Sephiroth imo.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Finished the game today. I really liked it. Definitely a little more padded than I would've liked, but still a fun ride the whole way through. The last few hours were a fucking trip.
Frankly, it's just weird to play a Square-Enix game that delivers. This is a dramatic departure from the original in just about every way outside of the major plot points, but the game really stands on its own and doesn't feel like a retread in the slightest. For me, this is the first time Final Fantasy has felt like Final Fantasy since FFX, back in 2001. Not that I didn't enjoy XII, but this is basically what I want from this series.
Frankly, it's just weird to play a Square-Enix game that delivers. This is a dramatic departure from the original in just about every way outside of the major plot points, but the game really stands on its own and doesn't feel like a retread in the slightest. For me, this is the first time Final Fantasy has felt like Final Fantasy since FFX, back in 2001. Not that I didn't enjoy XII, but this is basically what I want from this series.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yup, my thoughts exactly. This is the first Final Fantasy game I've bothered to finish since 10.
Nickolaidas
Member
Yeah, the We Must Defy Fate part in the end gave me some serious FFX vibes ...
I half-expected Barret to say "Not even in death, ya?" at some point.
I half-expected Barret to say "Not even in death, ya?" at some point.
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Nickolaidas
Member
I neither expect nor want to play the exact same story after 20 years of evolution in video game storytelling. I applaud any story change, as long as it makes the whole picture look more concise, mature and well-thought.
For example, Shinra being aware of Cloud & co's infiltration in the beginning and the mayor covering up their asses afterwards was a change I applauded because it made perfect sense. You don't start killing off the entire security of a reactor belonging to a trillion dollar company and not expect to be caught on security cameras. It's simply unfeasible in todays' standards. So, in order for the infiltration perpetrated by our beloved looney heroes to actually make sense, it has to be done in a way that the villains are aware, but are willing to play along because Xanatos Gambit. So, kudos for making that change.
My problem is change that is done in order to make sense, but ends up creating plot holes.
1. For example, Nomura tells us that the reason the Turks didn't just barged in Aerith's house and kidnapped her from Elmyra is the fact that Aerith has to come willingly in order for it to work. It's a bit … 'why?', but it's an explanation I'm willing to accept.
However, since Elmyra knows it, it is reasonable to assume that Aerith knows this as well - which is why she is using her willingness as a bargaining chip with Tseng in order for Marlene to get to safety. Okay, I can roll with that. Makes sense. Kudos.
BUT.... if that is the case, why did Reno come to the church with his goons? He's not there to kidnap her, sooo … is he there just to say hello and check in on her? Okay. That's that. Then why in the living fuck did Aerith named Cloud her bodyguard and ask him to beat Reno? She KNOWS that Reno won't hurt her, she KNOWS that Reno won't kidnap her, so WHY urge Cloud - and put him at risk - by telling him to go mano-a-mano with the Turk? It doesn't make a lick of sense! In Nomura's attempt to make Aerith's non-kidnapped status all those years sound believable, he creates a situation where Aerith creates an encounter without a reason to. And that's done because Nomura wishes to stick to the original (Cloud and Aerith running away from the church together, stumble upon Tifa going to Corneo, etc etc etc). I think a good change would be Reno and Cloud getting into a fight without Aerith being a reason (maybe Reno would taunt Cloud a lot more about lying being 1st class which would cause him to go mental and Aerith at some point yells at Cloud for them to leave in order to her to protect HIM, not him protecting her).
2. Cloud and nobody else sees the whispers except Aerith. Once Aerith touches Cloud, Cloud can see them too, while the others can't. So why exactly does Cloud wake with everyone seeing an entire swarm of them all over 7th Heaven? Did Aerith touch every single Sector 7 citizen in the slums when they were asleep? Did the Whispers say, "You know what? Fuck this. We're un-stealthing ourselves for the rest of the game".
And if the Whispers are supposed to be those who try to enforce Fate and not let the timeline deviate from the original, why ARE they there in the first place? What was happening in 7th Heaven that needed intervention from the whispers? Why exactly did they hurt Jessie in order for Tifa to take her place? Because Jessie getting benched and Tifa taking her place was EXACTLY what happened in the original timeline - so why did the Whispers intervened and hurt Jessie to bench her, since Jessie getting benched WAS what originally happened? This scene would make crystal sense if, in the beginning (in the bomb run), Cloud sees that a debris is about to fall on Jessie, slashes away a Whisper who attempts to stop him (because Jessie HAS to hurt her leg in order for her to get benched later on), Jessie's leg is fine, so the whispers later appear on 7th Heaven (while Cloud's asleep) in order to hurt Jessie in the leg, bench her, and have the timeline restored to that of the original. Or, even better, Jessie not hurting her leg allows her to do that recon mission with Cloud, Biggs and Wedge and while they're there, the whispers make their move THEN, hurt her leg, the gang takes her home, and in the morning Barret tells Cloud that Jessie isn't coming and Tifa is taking her place, thus restoring the timeline to its original path. But now, we got Jessie getting her leg hurt in the bomb run, then have her leg wounded AGAIN in 7th Heaven? Whispers are dicks.
Near the end, where Rufus walks with Tseng and he sees the Whisper Swarm, he says like, "What is this shit?" and Tseng responds with "Something wrong, sir?" and Rufus is giving him a look "Dude, seriously, you're not saying this?" as if it implies that Rufus' fate is changing but not Tseng's? Or is Tseng the only one out of the loop and the entire Midgar can see the whispers except him? Major dick move by the whispers if true. Racism and shit. Yeah, whispers are dicks.
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