Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
If you play the original game, you find out who he is and what he's all about.
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Kumomeme
Member
its more than that...if we use anime tengen toppan guren lagan as example...zack is like kamina and cloud is simon
kamina death become crucial big turning point to simon
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Silvawuff
Member
I most certainly played the original. I clocked something over 100+ hours doing All The Things on the original PS. I love FFVII. It's also okay to let a creator create and try different ideas. They're not going to give us what we "asked" for in an artistic medium because that's not how it works? That's pretty self-entitled to demand a game producer make a video game to a bunch of varying personal expectations -- the best they can do is take feedback and decide what works the best for their creative vision, delivery, and game development throughput. They took a lot of what worked from past FFs and used those things in this game. By a game design pedigree, that's good!
Dirge of Cerberus sucked. Crisis Core was okay. Ever watch Advent Children? I'm sure that's sparked many an angry fanboy debate. It's strictly a matter of opinion here -- you didn't like it? Okay then. Don't bother playing the next. Sucks for SE to lose a sale because they couldn't satisfy you. That's completely valid. However, I also think there's something to be said if you're declaring cognitive dissonance because other people enjoyed it and don't share your same opinion. That makes everyone else wrong and they must have terrible taste in games (insert Principal Skinner meme here)? This is toxic binary stinkthought rather than encouragement for an interpretive creative medium. People with different tastes and perspectives are allowed enjoy games for whatever reasons they please.
I feel this is a companion piece for FFVII, and they can exist side by side. It's the same story, told differently with some twists. It's too early to say if it's a good or bad thing until we get more information and the next game. You're free to take it however you want, but I don't think it "killed FFVII." FFVII has already "survived" 20 years of SE doing other things with it with varying degrees of success.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
If anyone's interested, I translated the section of the Ultimania book that deals with Sephiroth's forms when he appears to Cloud during the game.
www.neogaf.com
FF7 Remake Ultimania Information (Spoilers)
A lot of these blurbs from Ultimania looks like it's just us going through the process of trying to figure it out in written form more than providing any real information, lol That's Ultimania in a nutshell hahaha. They just verify info but leaving it in the form of a question to "tease" what...
Boneless
Member
You'd hope, but in Zack's scene you got the explosion, supposedly caused by beating the whispers, which would imply its the same time.
What a mess...
#Phonepunk#
Banned
im finally at the end of the game. still have to beat the final boss but i've seen the big reveal with Zack and that was super awesome. i can imagine someone who never played the original seeing him and having their mind blown.
not surprise people are upset and whining and of course complaining that people who aren't have never played the original game before. lol. that is hilarious. i don't think that line of attack is going to work on this game. you probably shouldn't use that bullshit line on a game the entire world has been waiting 20 years for. it's funny stuff. are you that married to your own interpretation that you fabric conspiracies about people who don't think like you? hah. ok.
still putting things together, but honestly, i thought the changes would be way bigger, given the amount of freakouts. overall the story is pretty much a copy of the original. i really loved meeting up with Red XIII and the whole escape sequence. all the spooky stuff with the Whispers, that just reminded me of the whole Reunion thing in the original game, where those dudes in cloaks used to mysteriously show up. Sephiroth is a spooky guy, he was spooky in the first game too. don't know what to tell you.
but people tend to really go overboard with these FF games. just endless bitching about story and "how they should have done it". millions of armchair game devs out there. or idiots calling it "anime trash" when they are the ones who chose to play a game about a spikey haired cyber soldier with a 7 foot sword made by Japanese company.
ive seen all these complaints before, at this point it's background noise. i'm a longtime FF fan so this isn't my first rodeo.
not surprise people are upset and whining and of course complaining that people who aren't have never played the original game before. lol. that is hilarious. i don't think that line of attack is going to work on this game. you probably shouldn't use that bullshit line on a game the entire world has been waiting 20 years for. it's funny stuff. are you that married to your own interpretation that you fabric conspiracies about people who don't think like you? hah. ok.
still putting things together, but honestly, i thought the changes would be way bigger, given the amount of freakouts. overall the story is pretty much a copy of the original. i really loved meeting up with Red XIII and the whole escape sequence. all the spooky stuff with the Whispers, that just reminded me of the whole Reunion thing in the original game, where those dudes in cloaks used to mysteriously show up. Sephiroth is a spooky guy, he was spooky in the first game too. don't know what to tell you.
but people tend to really go overboard with these FF games. just endless bitching about story and "how they should have done it". millions of armchair game devs out there. or idiots calling it "anime trash" when they are the ones who chose to play a game about a spikey haired cyber soldier with a 7 foot sword made by Japanese company.
ive seen all these complaints before, at this point it's background noise. i'm a longtime FF fan so this isn't my first rodeo.
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Geki-D
Banned
Damn. I totally forgot about that, you're right. Very strange.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Maybe, but it's not definitive.
It remains to be seen if altered Stamp also persists in our reality too. If that's the case, then we're following Back to the Future rules, and not Terminator or Avengers rules.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The headcannon is real lol
#Phonepunk#
Banned
got very strong Final Fantasy III (VI) vibes in that final dungeon. the way you split up and have to unlock the path to the boss, it felt very much like the conclusion to that game. i like it! anyone else feel the same?
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Oh definitely. One of the game design issues I had for much of the game was feeling that I was "wasting" materia by it being underutilized since I could only use 3 active characters at any given time. This was the first time that I had to use all my materia amongst all of my characters, which was a welcome change.
I really like the future gameplay implications of this and the potential of character swapping, which was one of my favorite new battle features of Final Fantasy 10. If they can incorporate a mechanic like that into the sequels, that would be amazing. This would also solve the problem of not being specced properly for a fight. Just swap out for a character with the right materia, and there's no need to restart the battle.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
From real time . . . weapon change in PS3 to real time character change in PS5. What a time to be alive.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
based on my initial playthrough, i dont really think there is time travel in this. maybe i need another look but i feel like they did a lot of flashbacks and sometimes had them combined with the current stuff. ie i think it was more an artistic or thematic choice, for instance, for Zack and Cloud to be walking towards the rest of them. they are showing the past and future at the same time in one scene. not implying that Zack & Cloud are literally walking into a different timeline.
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Shouta
Member
Considering that they've stated they're going to stick pretty close to the FF7 story but add stuff, it probably won't be time travel or dimension hoping but them experiencing a timeline that was altered because of what happened. That scene was definitely more artistic than literal, heh
#Phonepunk#
Banned
so are there any good video essays or write ups that go into spoilers on the game? might be cool to see an A/B comparison of things that were altered or referenced. nothing that exists to solely trash it but something that takes an honest look at the differences would be nice. i spent a lot of this game going "Wait did this happen in the original? I think so. Maybe not..."
looking back on the early comments, it seems people were upset at OP Sephiroth. didn't bother me. he always seemed super OP in the original game. he is the final boss of that one. did everyone forget the one summon of his where Safer Sephiroth commanded the destruction of the entire solar system as one of his attacks? him having crazy powers is not that new.
looking back on the early comments, it seems people were upset at OP Sephiroth. didn't bother me. he always seemed super OP in the original game. he is the final boss of that one. did everyone forget the one summon of his where Safer Sephiroth commanded the destruction of the entire solar system as one of his attacks? him having crazy powers is not that new.
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Rean no Kiseki
Banned
I literally just finished the game (credits still rolling) and thought the same, i loved everything about the game and i loved that they changes up and expanded on things.
I love the OG 7, it was my first RPG + FF and it's there if i wanted to experience it, and i hope they continue their vision for the next parts and don't change it cause some people weren't pleased with the changes in a REMAKE that they made.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
#Phonepunk#
Banned
i love love LOVE the final words in the game. they are so cyberpunk. feels right out of a William Gibson novel.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's funny because I totally missed the first time that there's a literal steel sky above her head for her and anyone else living in the slums lol.
The Japanese dialogue doesn't mention her longing for the steel sky. It instead talks about she hates the actual sky. Two different ways of saying the same thing. I thought it was interesting.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
They nailed the characterization in this game, and I'm looking forward to experiencing Cid's arc, and his journey to eventually forgiving Shera. It should be a tearjerker.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
here's kind of an interesting thing. ive been reading about medieval illuminated manuscripts, and one of the earliest collection of written songs is in a 13th century work called Carmina Burana. many of the poems were set to music by Carl Orff in the 20th century, and this work heavily influenced Sephiroth's theme:
the lyrics of the "O Fortuna" poem are quite relevant to the themes of fortune and fate in FFVIIR:
O Fortune,
like the moon
you are changeable,
ever waxing
ever waning;
hateful life
first oppresses
and then soothes
playing with mental clarity;
poverty
and power
it melts them like ice.
Fate – monstrous
and empty,
you whirling wheel,
you are malevolent,
well-being is vain
and always fades to nothing,
shadowed
and veiled
you plague me too;
now through the game
I bring my bare back
to your villainy.
Fate is against me
in health
and virtue,
driven on
and weighted down,
always enslaved.
So at this hour
without delay
pluck the vibrating strings;
since Fate
strikes down the strong,
everyone weep with me!
you can hear the influence in the famous opening song "O Fortuna"Japanese composer Nobuo Uematsu used portions of "O Fortuna", "Estuans interius", "Veni, veni, venias", and "Ave formosissima" for the final boss theme "One-Winged Angel" in Square Enix's Final Fantasy VII.
Carmina Burana - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
the lyrics of the "O Fortuna" poem are quite relevant to the themes of fortune and fate in FFVIIR:
O Fortune,
like the moon
you are changeable,
ever waxing
ever waning;
hateful life
first oppresses
and then soothes
playing with mental clarity;
poverty
and power
it melts them like ice.
Fate – monstrous
and empty,
you whirling wheel,
you are malevolent,
well-being is vain
and always fades to nothing,
shadowed
and veiled
you plague me too;
now through the game
I bring my bare back
to your villainy.
Fate is against me
in health
and virtue,
driven on
and weighted down,
always enslaved.
So at this hour
without delay
pluck the vibrating strings;
since Fate
strikes down the strong,
everyone weep with me!
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
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Lethal01
Member
What do you mean?
Should we not think the next game will likely be good after playing this one?
I think worst-case scenario is the plot is worse
Had read the spoilers in here for the ending earlier. Just beat the game myself. To be honest I was trying to be open to the idea of the story change (even though I'd rather they have not done it).
My problem wasn't so much with the idea of the game deviating from the original, but with how confusing the ending was. Its execution was poor. I've played FF7 once but it was 15 years ago. I don't even know who Zack is.
IMO the game should be self contained. I don't like when games require you to do other things in advance to know the story. Kingdom Hearts is annoying to me for the same reason.
Besides the "ghosts" fight I loved the huge onslaught of fun boss battles at the end including the motorcycle. The ghosts fight ruined the flow though as it wasn't nearly as fun as the other.
My problem wasn't so much with the idea of the game deviating from the original, but with how confusing the ending was. Its execution was poor. I've played FF7 once but it was 15 years ago. I don't even know who Zack is.
IMO the game should be self contained. I don't like when games require you to do other things in advance to know the story. Kingdom Hearts is annoying to me for the same reason.
Besides the "ghosts" fight I loved the huge onslaught of fun boss battles at the end including the motorcycle. The ghosts fight ruined the flow though as it wasn't nearly as fun as the other.
Lethal01
Member
I think it's fine for a first installment in a series to have unanswered questions.
The story is self contained, or rather it will be. once you actually see the whole thing.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
lmfao
I'd rather have the George Lucas approach vs JJ Abrams. Having open ended questions that take years to resolve has never been fun for me. The weird thing is besides that last act, FF7 remake didnt leave unanswered questions as well.
Why should I have to look up who a character is (Zack) after playing a 40 hour game?
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Lethal01
Member
They leave a lot more unanswered than just Zack. There are a lot of questions about Cloud, Sephiroth, Tifa and Aerith that are still totally unresolved.
Perhaps you're vague memory of ff7 is filling in the gaps for you when complete first timers would notice that we really know nothing about what's going on with Sephiroth.
Anyway, totally fine to not like it. I understand the feeling.
but the only way they could have leaved nothing unanswered would be too either make the whole story in one go(which I personally wouldn't want). or to change the story a lot more to answer a lot more before they leave Midgar.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
He did. He's dead.
stickkidsam
Member
There are plenty of examples of time travel through the plot, whether it be Aerith and Sephiroth knowing the future, the flash forwards of an alternate reality, literal time ghosts trying to force fate that is only changing because of Sephiroth's ability to travel through time (presumably using the life stream itself), or Zack being shown to survive the battle and take Cloud with him towards Midgar when originally he was shot dead. What about that massive explosion surrounding Midgar that Zack saw after the whispers were defeated or the difference in Little Scamp on the bag of chips?
Shouta
Member
I think he might mean in the like Back to the Future sense of them actually travelling to the past/future etc but I could be wrong on that.
The funny thing about this kind of story is that there are a lot of ways to explain this stuff and make it work. It could be dimensional shenanigans and being able to connect to a place where this occurred wouldn't be travelling etc. Honestly, that's how I imagine it since it's easier to digest and seems to be more inline with what the developers have mentioned. It also avoids crazy stuff like Casual loops which would be a mess to untangle.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That's unclear, as far as I know, in terms of 7 being a specific reference to something (other than the name of the game)
base
Banned
Sephiroth killed Aeris in 7 seconds. I think you know what I think...
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
ExpandKong
Banned
7 more parts of FF7 Remake
base
Banned
Makes sense to me. Sephiroth is giving Cloud a chance to change the fate and save Aeris? But why would he?
Lethal01
Member
I mean, you can see the explosion happens during day which makes it extremely clear that this is a flash back.
ExpandKong
Banned
I dunno if calling anything about that ending “extremely clear” is accurate.
Digity
Member
I think it's more just toying with him and us the players, giving people hope they can change that.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
More levels of manipulation maybe? In the OG he was messing with Cloud's mind most of the game in order to acquire the black materia.
In remake we must wonder if his goals are still the same or perhaps different.
That would also depend if the Sephiroth we see at the end is connected to the same chain of events that the "real" Sephiroth currently at the northern crater is putting in motion, or if it's a separate entity.
I'm not sure if it's clear to Cloud yet that he knows Aerith is destined to die, let alone if he can save her. He had that brief premonition at the beginning of chapter 9 that made him shed a tear, but I don't think he fully understood the context of those brief flashes, just how it made him feel.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Ahahahaha
Collin
Banned
Serious question, how would you guys feel if in FF7R2 Cait Sith was just temp member of your party during the Gold Saucer portions like how Red XIII works in Part 1?
They’d have to find some other way to utilize the “spying” element but no one would really care, right? We all agree he fucking sucks, yeah?
They’d have to find some other way to utilize the “spying” element but no one would really care, right? We all agree he fucking sucks, yeah?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
He's gonna turn out to be the best character in the game.
I hope his gimmick is that his different weapons, instead of stupid megaphones, is swapping out the robots he rides on.
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Paracelsus
Member
Boneless
Member
Not in the same gruesome way. Also a lot of soldiers in de building are not dead. So the whispers are opinionated?
Its bullshit really.
Boneless
Member
Uh no, a little after that you see zack walking paste Aerith and she feels something, so it's definitely something. Aerith 'feeling' other dimensions is bullshit as well of course.