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Final Fantasy XIII post-release comparison/garbage thread

D

duckroll

Member
Okay, here's how it's going to go: KEEP IT CIVIL AND CLEAN

Rules:
1) Do not go out of your way to antagonist people. I don't want to see people playing the fanboy card or insulting people, or trying bait/troll using "ammo" provided by differences in versions.

2) Keep it factual. "Lol what did you expect S-E ported this in 3 months" is not factual, "It was probably scaled down to protect Japanese PRIDE" is not factual. Making exaggerated claims to fan the fires of dramatica is also not factual. If you want to compare the games, let's look at direct feed screenshots, direct feed video, and make factual comparisons to determine which is the best purchase for people who have a choice.

3) NO SPOILERS. Do not discuss how FFXIII sucks because Aerith dies. Or how the game is obviously a linear piece of shit because 20 hours into the game you enter a tunnel which is a straight 20 hour path to the final boss. Do not use this thread to discuss any story spoilers or gameplay elements not revealed before hand. I don't want to see people using this thread as a springboard to troll the game, or to talk about import impressions. I don't want people asking questions about the game from importers either. There are other FFXIII threads for that.

4) If you are playing the Japanese game, or want to talk about Japanese voices, or you want to discuss beautiful it is to see the game as a PS3 exclusive in Japan - go post on the FFXIII Import thread, or the Impressions thread. Not here. This thread is exclusively for pre-release discussion on the English version of the game for NA/Europe due out for the PS3 and 360.


Reference links:

FFXIII Import thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=382008
FFXIII Final Impressions thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383441


Update:

Edge. 5.

iceburn.gif


Reviews:

Other:
(thanks APZonerunner!)
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Again, I will restate: I should have final 360 code in my hands either on Saturday or Monday (there's a lot of snow here, so hopefully that won't fuck the post up.)

Once it's here, I'll do some side-by-side comparisons myself.
 
O

Oli

Registered User
TheChillyAcademic said:
So FFXIII.

Good Game.

Anyone hyped?
Click to expand...

Yes! Have my 360 version pre-ordered on Amazon. Will be playing on a 20" SD TV so the comparisons mean little to me either way. Can't wait to play it.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Those are direct feed 360 shots? Hmm, there is something off about them. The resolution seems to be slightly lower or something.

Other than that, having not played the game, it's difficult to see how they stack up. For those that have played the PS3 version, how doe sit look to you?
 
M

Mad_Ban

Member
dark10x said:
Those are direct feed 360 shots? Hmm, there is something off about them. The resolution seems to be slightly lower or something.

Other than that, having not played the game, it's difficult to see how they stack up. For those that have played the PS3 version, how doe sit look to you?
Click to expand...
That's because it is.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Mad_Ban said:
That's because it is.
Click to expand...
That really seems odd to me considering the higher fill rate available to 360. It's usually the other way around.

So the PS3 version is 1280x720 with 2x multisampling and the 360 version seems to be slightly lower also with 2x multisampling. I'm most curious about the video as the PS3 game had like 34gb of 1080p video. They've have to really compress that stuff for 360 even on three discs. I'm curious to see how good of a job they can do.
 
D

duckroll

Member
dark10x said:
Those are direct feed 360 shots? Hmm, there is something off about them. The resolution seems to be slightly lower or something.

Other than that, having not played the game, it's difficult to see how they stack up. For those that have played the PS3 version, how doe sit look to you?
Click to expand...

The direct feed screens I'm looking at certainly look worse than how the game looked on the PS3. But I should note that FFXIII's strongest areas are in the animations, the scale and how everything comes together in both battles and environments.

It will be hard to tell how the game really stacks up as an experience without seeing the 360 version in motion, to compare how smooth it runs and also whether any details in the lighting and backgrounds have been compromised.

The other concern I would have for a 360 version, is how good the pre-recorded cutscenes look. On the PS3 the insane bitrate makes transitions between real time cutscenes and pre-recorded cutscenes very seamless, much like MGS4. The only time you feel there's a huge contrast are in the FMVs.

That's my take on this issue so far.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
duckroll said:
The direct feed screens I'm looking at certainly look worse than how the game looked on the PS3. But I should note that FFXIII's strongest areas are in the animations, the scale and how everything comes together in both battles and environments.

It will be hard to tell how the game really stacks up as an experience without seeing the 360 version in motion, to compare how smooth it runs and also whether any details in the lighting and backgrounds have been compromised.

The other concern I would have for a 360 version, is how good the pre-recorded cutscenes look. On the PS3 the insane bitrate makes transitions between real time cutscenes and pre-recorded cutscenes very seamless, much like MGS4. The only time you feel there's a huge contrast are in the FMVs.

That's my take on this issue so far.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, Eurogamer noted that XIII uses a higher precision HDR mode than what is possible on the 360 under similar circumstances. Be curious to see how that translates.

How was the PS3 framerate in the end? The Eurogamer comparison demonstrated that the demo areas were now a (mostly) solid 30 fps while the demo had lots of slowdown. Seeing them side by side was interesting.

If there is a downgrade, I suspect it can be chalked up to less time in development with a focus on PS3. Same thing that happens with PS3 ports from 360, really. Different machines with different strengths.

I'm aware that most seem to believe the game is absolute trash (hopefully not that bad), but I'm fascinated by the visuals as they seem extremely impressive and almost worth playing the game for. :p
 
D

duckroll

Member
dark10x said:
Oh yeah, Eurogamer noted that XIII uses a higher precision HDR mode than what is possible on the 360 under similar circumstances. Be curious to see how that translates.

How was the PS3 framerate in the end? The Eurogamer comparison demonstrated that the demo areas were now a (mostly) solid 30 fps while the demo had lots of slowdown. Seeing them side by side was interesting.
Click to expand...

Framerate was really solid. I think it probably dipped a little in some fights, it was definitely noticeable in some battles because of the scale but the game does a very good job of masking it with intentional dramatic pauses and visual effects for attacks, etc. There is nothing in FFXIII which feels like the engine wasn't handling it well at all, it ran like a solid PS2 title.
 
C

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
Am I missing something? The 'direct feed' screens I'm seeing on that Meristation site are all tiny:
2ent110.jpg


I can't really tell anything from those.
 
Y

Yasae

Banned
dark10x said:
Those are direct feed 360 shots? Hmm, there is something off about them. The resolution seems to be slightly lower or something.
Click to expand...
Indeed, though the images are compressed as well.
 
H

HamPster PamPster

Member
Is this just for comparing the PS3 and 360 versions... or can we compare FFXIII to other final fantasies:D

come on duckroll, open the door to a good old ff ranking final fantasy tactics is better and will always be better then any other final fantasy thread


Did anyone ever announce pre-order stuff? The other thread was saying wait until the 13 for info - I figure I'll be picking it up day or week 1 so I might as well get some goodies out of it
 
D

duckroll

Member
Captain Pants said:
Am I missing something? The 'direct feed' screens I'm seeing on that Meristation site are all tiny:
Click to expand...

You can click on them to pop-up a full resolution version. Maybe your browser is blocking pop-ups?
 
H

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
robut said:
Will the 360 version be on multiple discs? If so how many?
Click to expand...
Three (3) discs, OP should make maybe note of this so people don't ask over and over again.

edit, beaten
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Captain Pants said:
Am I missing something? The 'direct feed' screens I'm seeing on that Meristation site are all tiny:
2ent110.jpg


I can't really tell anything from those.
Click to expand...
You can enlarge them to full size on that site.

Indeed, though the images are compressed as well.
Click to expand...
Of course, but you can still see the loss in resolution.
 
M

Mad_Ban

Member
dark10x said:
That really seems odd to me considering the higher fill rate available to 360. It's usually the other way around.

So the PS3 version is 1280x720 with 2x multisampling and the 360 version seems to be slightly lower also with 2x multisampling. I'm most curious about the video as the PS3 game had like 34gb of 1080p video. They've have to really compress that stuff for 360 even on three discs. I'm curious to see how good of a job they can do.
Click to expand...
I'm just going by what mazingerDUDE from Digital Foundry said. :D

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19857881&postcount=12055
 
D

Dogenzaka

Banned
duckroll said:
Framerate was really solid. I think it probably dipped a little in some fights, it was definitely noticeable in some battles because of the scale but the game does a very good job of masking it with intentional dramatic pauses and visual effects for attacks, etc. There is nothing in FFXIII which feels like the engine wasn't handling it well at all, it ran like a solid PS2 title.
Click to expand...

That's really good to hear.

When I saw the English FF13 trailer from E3 last year, there was a moment where Lightning steps out into that open grass field and it looks like the framerate was stuttering pretty badly. I'm guessing it's much better than that trailer seemed to be?
 
C

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
duckroll said:
You can click on them to pop-up a full resolution version. Maybe your browser is blocking pop-ups?
Click to expand...

Weird... my mouse icon doesn't even change when I mouse over them. When I click on the thumbnail, it just takes me to an image the size of the one I posted here.

edit: Got it to work...
 
O

Oli

Registered User
duckroll said:
The direct feed screens I'm looking at certainly look worse than how the game looked on the PS3. But I should note that FFXIII's strongest areas are in the animations, the scale and how everything comes together in both battles and environments.

It will be hard to tell how the game really stacks up as an experience without seeing the 360 version in motion, to compare how smooth it runs and also whether any details in the lighting and backgrounds have been compromised.

The other concern I would have for a 360 version, is how good the pre-recorded cutscenes look. On the PS3 the insane bitrate makes transitions between real time cutscenes and pre-recorded cutscenes very seamless, much like MGS4. The only time you feel there's a huge contrast are in the FMVs.

That's my take on this issue so far.
Click to expand...

Square hasn't really hidden the 360 build of the game though right? If these issues were there, wouldn't they have shown up in the demo's that SE has sent out for events? Of course that's not necessarily a representative look at the entire game, but it seems to me like the only point of controversy is in the nitty gritty looks that are beginning to show up. Maybe I'm just not up on the whole situation though.

I'll agree with you though, the screens don't do the game justice, even the PS3 version. Seeing it in motion is entirely different.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Mad_Ban said:
I'm just going by what mazingerDUDE from Digital Foundry said. :D

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19857881&postcount=12055
Click to expand...
Well, the DF guys are always accurate thanks to their great capture hardware.

1024x576, though? Man, that's pretty low (like Haze low). I wonder who is actually handling this port? Is it really internal Square-Enix or did they farm it out ala Bayonetta PS3?

Was always going to buy on PS3, but I'm quite surprised that the 360 port isn't turning out all that hot. In fact, I was almost expecting a superior version on 360, based on what we generally get.

Square hasn't really hidden the 360 build of the game though right? If these issues were there, wouldn't they have shown up in the demo's that SE has sent out for events? Of course that's not necessarily a representative look at the entire game, but it seems to me like the only point of controversy is in the nitty gritty looks that are beginning to show up. Maybe I'm just not up on the whole situation though.
Click to expand...
You wouldn't notice compression artifacts, reduced resolution, and other such trimmings at a press showing, though. It only becomes obvious once you get it on your own display.
 
H

h3ro

Member
dark10x said:
Well, the DF guys are always accurate thanks to their great capture hardware.

1024x576, though? Man, that's pretty low (like Haze low). I wonder who is actually handling this port? Is it really internal Square-Enix or did they farm it out ala Bayonetta PS3?
Click to expand...

There was a theory in the news thread suggesting that the team that was supposed to bring Last Remnant over to the PS3 was moved to over to transition XIII to 360. I don't think the team was ever specifically named, other than as "another team" did the port.

Also, it should be noted that the DF analysis wasn't from their own capture but from those new direct feed shots.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
h3ro said:
There was a theory in the news thread suggesting that the team that was supposed to bring Last Remnant over to the PS3 was moved to over to transition XIII to 360. I don't think the team was ever specifically named, other than as "another team" did the port.

Also, it should be noted that the DF analysis wasn't from their own capture but from those new direct feed shots.
Click to expand...
Right, but those captures seem accurate in that the HUD elements are all full 1280x720 pixel size while the 3D aspects are lower in resolution.
 
R

riceandbeans

Member
hateradio said:
Nah, but I wish there was a PC version. Curse you Square, WSTRN MRKT!
Click to expand...

There might be an internal version...

I keep bringing this up, but the textures in this shot irk me because none of the X10 footage shows anything this low-res. I'm going with this being a PC version. There's a conspiracy going on... :lol

1266389085.jpg
 
V

Vamphuntr

Member
riceandbeans said:
There might be an internal version...

I keep bringing this up, but the textures in this shot irk me because none of the X10 footage shows anything this low-res. I'm going with this being a PC version. There's a conspiracy going on... :lol
Click to expand...

I still fail to see why you insist it's a PC version. It might simply be an older 360 build. Shouldn't the PC version look better anyway. In the other thread you were comparing textures on the ground from that screenshot with ground shots from a battle from the X 10 trailer. Unless I'm missing something is 576p supposed to be a hint it's a PC version? I have zero knowledge in this area.
 
D

duckroll

Member
dark10x said:
You wouldn't notice compression artifacts, reduced resolution, and other such trimmings at a press showing, though. It only becomes obvious once you get it on your own display.
Click to expand...

And even then, I would argue that for what FFXIII is, it is impressive enough that for someone who only plays one version, it will feel good enough in motion. The problems start to creep in when you have another version to compare it to, and it looks and/or performs significantly better. Ultimately, for those who can only play one version, I doubt it will significantly impact their experience one way or another unless you go out of your way to compare it with something you cannot play and end up building up disappointment inside.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Honestly the dithering is pretty fucking disgusting even on the PS3 version:

192.168.84.45-image154.jpg


The fuck is this shit? I haven't seen anything that horrible on any other PS3 games. Is that the best they could do after 4+ years of development? They sure hid this crap in all of their promo videos. :p
 
S

SimpleDesign

Member
dark10x said:
That really seems odd to me considering the higher fill rate available to 360. It's usually the other way around.

So the PS3 version is 1280x720 with 2x multisampling and the 360 version seems to be slightly lower also with 2x multisampling. I'm most curious about the video as the PS3 game had like 34gb of 1080p video. They've have to really compress that stuff for 360 even on three discs. I'm curious to see how good of a job they can do.
Click to expand...
Looking at direct screen shots it's obvious it's a little more than slightly lower than 720p. 1024x576 is being thrown around a lot, it's looking like a Ninja Gaiden II vs Ninja Gaiden Sigma II comparison. Though I believe Ninja Gaiden II ran at 1120x585 with 2xAA.
 
S

SimpleDesign

Member
jett said:
Honestly the dithering is pretty fucking disgusting even on the PS3 version:

The fuck is this shit? I haven't seen anything that horrible on any other PS3 games. Is that the best they could do after 4+ years of development? They sure hid this crap in all of their promo videos. :p
Click to expand...
It was pretty obvious even in bullshots from a year or two ago.
 
P

Peff

Member
It should be noted that Meristation got the screenshots from Square-Enix, not from their build of the game (It seems they haven't got the 360 version yet). Still, that's probably how the game is going to look at this point.
 
N

ntb825

Member
This is going to become my favorite thread.


Hopefully both version are good. I switched my pre-orded to PS3 today. If the final code gets out there and both versions are pretty equal (other than the CG scenes), i'll switch it back.
 
O

Oli

Registered User
duckroll said:
And even then, I would argue that for what FFXIII is, it is impressive enough that for someone who only plays one version, it will feel good enough in motion. The problems start to creep in when you have another version to compare it to, and it looks and/or performs significantly better. Ultimately, for those who can only play one version, I doubt it will significantly impact their experience one way or another unless you go out of your way to compare it with something you cannot play and end up building up disappointment inside.
Click to expand...

Which is good enough for me. I'll be playing one version, so as long as it's acceptable then the comparisons don't matter.

Of course, this all makes for good arguments so I understand why it's creating such a stir.
 
V

VGChampion

Member
I'm fine with the dithering. It almost gives it that distinctive FF feel that only I seem to have. There's something about all the recent games that just look different for one reason or the other. Only one other friend of mine understands it but I like it.

And did they ever debunk those recent comparison shots where it looked like the UI was just superimposed over each image?
 
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