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[Khrno]

Honestly the dithering is pretty fucking disgusting even on the PS3 version:

http://www.meristation.com/EPORTAL_...G2-cw4b7d424f74eb3/192.168.84.45-image154.jpg

The fuck is this shit? I haven't seen anything that horrible on any other PS3 games. Is that the best they could do after 4+ years of development? They sure hid this crap in all of their promo videos.

To be honest, you don't really notice it while watching that scene in the game, since there's wind blowing and his hair is moving, so it doesn't looks as bad as the still image shows.

 

[jett]

It should be noted that Meristation got the screenshots from Square-Enix, not from their build of the game (It seems they haven't got the 360 version yet). Still, that's probably how the game is going to look at this point.

All of their most recent screens are their own captures from both versions.

 

[WinFonda]

The other concern I would have for a 360 version, is how good the pre-recorded cutscenes look. On the PS3 the insane bitrate makes transitions between real time cutscenes and pre-recorded cutscenes very seamless, much like MGS4. The only time you feel there's a huge contrast are in the FMVs.

Ah, I didn't know it had prerecorded in-engine cutscenes as well. That makes compression a bigger issue than I would have thought.

 

[riceandbeans]

I still fail to see why you insist it's a PC version. It might simply be an older 360 build. Shouldn't the PC version look better anyway. In the other thread you were comparing textures on the ground from that screenshot with ground shots from a battle from the X 10 trailer. Unless I'm missing something is 576p supposed to be a hint it's a PC version? I have zero knowledge in this area.

Nah, more than likely it is a 360 shot. I'm just riding on hope, candy canes, and unicorns. But like another poster said, and he was joking, but it could be a PC shot in Low settings. It would sort of explain the low-res textures and missing patches of grass.

 

[Firestorm]

I'm fine with the dithering. It almost gives it that distinctive FF feel that only I seem to have. There's something about all the recent games that just look different for one reason or the other. Only one other friend of mine understands it but I like it.

And did they ever debunk those recent comparison shots where it looked like the UI was just superimposed over each image?

I never understood how it was possible to like dithering. Then again, I hate film grain and others seem to love it so who knows.

 

[jett]

To be honest, you don't really notice it while watching that scene in the game, since there's wind blowing and his hair is moving, so it doesn't looks as bad as the still image shows.

Uh yeah I guess you're right, just rewatched the "final trailer" I could only notice the dithered hair when I paused the video. Still this is the only game I've seen this gen that resorts to this solution.

 

[Peff]

All of their most recent screens are their own captures from both versions.

One of the staffers told me that they were given to them by SE, though I don't think they've said anything "in the open". The piece of news says nothing either

http://www.meristation.com/v3/des_noticia.php?id=cw4b7d44360dd67&pic=GEN

 

[badcrumble]

Honestly the dithering is pretty fucking disgusting even on the PS3 version:



The fuck is this shit? I haven't seen anything that horrible on any other PS3 games. Is that the best they could do after 4+ years of development? They sure hid this crap in all of their promo videos.

Jett,

I've been complaining about the dithering practically nonstop since it was first noticed, but it really doesn't show up in motion because ultimately it's a better way for the engine to handle transparencies on the PS3. It can't really handle alpha transparency the way the PS2 could (that's how the PS2 FFs handled hair, which is why PCSX2 shots of Tidus have all this black on his head) and especially in HD at a solid 30fps the dithering vanishes in motion. Dithering gets badly magnified by lower resolutions - which is a major reason why a lot of the 360 screenshots looked worse, and why it's very noticeable in, say, Final Fantasy 9 (which has a resolution below 640x480, I believe).

Uh yeah I guess you're right, just rewatched the "final trailer" I could only notice the dithered hair when I paused the video. Still this is the only game I've seen this gen that resorts to this solution.

It's probably because Final Fantasy characters are fashion victims with layered hair! Hair is tough to do even without layering it and in most people's eyes its cost outweighs its benefit, hence the current-gen cliché of the bald space marine.

 

[Revelations]

Those are direct feed 360 shots? Hmm, there is something off about them. The resolution seems to be slightly lower or something.

Other than that, having not played the game, it's difficult to see how they stack up. For those that have played the PS3 version, how doe sit look to you?

In game both versions have the same display and texture resolution. The major difference comes in the CGI cutscene fidelity and resolution. Which is higher on the PS3. This is coming from gamespots brief comparison rundown mind you.

 

[FuturusX]

Regarding the 576p issue / non-issue (you choose)

Given that most of us are peering in from the outside, and the development of modern gaming software is deeply complex and challenging, if there is indeed native resolution difference, it will be hard to pinpoint why exactly that is without full disclosure from S-E.

There could be a very valid technical reason for the resolution reduction, if indeed there is one. Alternatively, parity might have been very achievable, but in truth only an insider can say.

Don't expect an accurate answer, for S-E to even acknowledge it now would be a marketing faux-pas.

I'll give S-E the benefit of the doubt, they are in the business of making as much money as possible. A lack of parity between versions, beyond the obvious storage issues, would hinder that.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Honestly the dithering is pretty fucking disgusting even on the PS3 version:

The fuck is this shit? I haven't seen anything that horrible on any other PS3 games. Is that the best they could do after 4+ years of development? They sure hid this crap in all of their promo videos.

it doesn't look like that on PS3, i played that scene just last night

 

[Let me in]

Honestly the dithering is pretty fucking disgusting even on the PS3 version:

//Screen cap of Hope//

The fuck is this shit? I haven't seen anything that horrible on any other PS3 games. Is that the best they could do after 4+ years of development? They sure hid this crap in all of their promo videos.

Isn't this a 360 shot? The "dithering" everyone keeps mentioning is a technique called Alpha to Coverage (bottom of page). It actually looks quite nice in the game.

How did this game go from being breathtaking to being garbage? It's really not so. I played it on a 42" plasma -- it was gorgeous. Next to nothing to complain about.

 

[Yasae]

Of course, but you can still see the loss in resolution.

Still ruins the details.

 

[LiK]

for some reason, i'm glad duckroll started this thread. could've gone outta hand easily :lol

 

[InfiniteNine]

for some reason, i'm glad duckroll started this thread. could've gone outta hand easily :lol

butts butts butts

 

[BlazingDarkness]

for some reason, i'm glad duckroll started this thread. could've gone outta hand easily :lol

The other thread was a shitstorm since the game released in Japan

 

[Oli]

for some reason, i'm glad duckroll started this thread. could've gone outta hand easily :lol

Mod created threads send people into submission. Until some poor sap runs in without noticing the change. It's only a matter of time.

 

[fernoca]

All of their most recent screens are their own captures from both versions.

One of the staffers told me that they were given to them by SE, though I don't think they've said anything "in the open". The piece of news says nothing either

http://www.meristation.com/v3/des_noticia.php?id=cw4b7d44360dd67&pic=GEN

Yeah, even the article basically starts with "we just got the first pictures of Final Fantasy XIII in spanish, take a look"..and people in the comments are complaining because #1. They forgot to mention that the game will be subtitled only, not fully translated and #2. The blurry quality of the Xbox 360 pics.

 

[Teknoman]

Have been since that first trailer like 5 years ago.

Same here. Even more so since the ACC demo awhile back. The soundtrack, graphics, and characters ( going to be hard to choose my final party) have me looking forward to it.

As long as the story is interesting/well translated and not overly complicated, im good.

 

[jett]

Jett,

I've been complaining about the dithering practically nonstop since it was first noticed, but it really doesn't show up in motion because ultimately it's a better way for the engine to handle transparencies on the PS3. It can't really handle alpha transparency the way the PS2 could (that's how the PS2 FFs handled hair, which is why PCSX2 shots of Tidus have all this black on his head) and especially in HD at a solid 30fps the dithering vanishes in motion. Dithering gets badly magnified by lower resolutions - which is a major reason why a lot of the 360 screenshots looked worse, and why it's very noticeable in, say, Final Fantasy 9 (which has a resolution below 640x480, I believe).
It's probably because Final Fantasy characters are fashion victims with layered hair! Hair is tough to do even without layering it and in most people's eyes its cost outweighs its benefit, hence the current-gen cliché of the bald space marine.

Yeah I know, it's also the reason the PS3 port of Bayonetta runs like balls...in the case of FFXIII I guess it's like you said, the case of -ahem- the character design.

 

[Vanille]

How did this game go from being breathtaking to being garbage? It's really not so. I played it on a 42" plasma -- it was gorgeous. Next to nothing to complain about.

Yeah, pretty much. Final Fantasy XIII is just one of those games you have to see in motion. Screenshots really don't do it justice.

 

[VGChampion]

I never understood how it was possible to like dithering. Then again, I hate film grain and others seem to love it so who knows.

Well, I don't look for it when I'm playing I guess. Unless I specifically hear about something on the Internet and see an example I would never notice things like that. I'm pretty oblivious when it comes to this sort of stuff. If a game looks different because of some picture "problem", I just assume it's the direction they went with the game and not a technical thing.

Edit: By the way, don't know if anyone saw this but here's some 360 shots from Kotaku.

http://kotaku.com/5475017/these-are-the-xbox-360-final-fantasy-xiii-shots-you-were-looking-for

Deja vu.

Haha, well I wasn't sure if they were anywhere else. Unless I'm missing some of these images in the link posted on the first page, I didn't notice some like this one. :lol

 

[Kagari]

It should be noted that Meristation got the screenshots from Square-Enix, not from their build of the game (It seems they haven't got the 360 version yet). Still, that's probably how the game is going to look at this point.

They also gave them PS3 shots: http://www.meristation.com/v3/listado_imagenes.php?pic=PS3&idj=cw445ffb9a1071f&pes=1

They look similar to previous direct feed stuff released before the Japanese version came out.

 

[jett]

Yeah, even the article basically starts with "we just got the first pictures of Final Fantasy XIII in spanish, take a look"..and people in the comments are complaining because #1. They forgot to mention that the game will be subtitled only, not fully translated and #2. The blurry quality of the Xbox 360 pics.

They just say the "first images of the spanish version arrive!". I dunno but I doubt Squeenix is out there giving out images for every translation. I checked a couple of other "international" websites and they don't have FFXIII pictures in their own languages.

Squeenix might have indeed released those screens to meristation, I don't know. Some of their PS3 screens are riddled with macroblocking which leads me to believe they captured at least those. Doesn't really matter either way...

 

[fernoca]

Edit: By the way, don't know if anyone saw this but here's some 360 shots from Kotaku.

http://kotaku.com/5475017/these-are-the-xbox-360-final-fantasy-xiii-shots-you-were-looking-for

Deja vu.

They just say the "first images of the spanish version arrive!". I dunno but I doubt Squeenix is out there giving out images for every translation. I checked a couple of other "international" websites and they don't have FFXIII pictures in their own languages.

Squeenix might have indeed released those screens to meristation, I don't know. Doesn't really matter either way...

Well, Meristation is a well known site overthere..like when developers gives "exclusive" pics to Gamespot or IGN in the US..

 

[hateradio]

http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/2066/full-res/1266389085.jpg

I went back and re-sized that shot to it's proposed internal res (1024x576) and it doesn't look as terrible I guess; it is an 80% reduction--but that's what scaling is all about.

So in motion it shouldn't be that noticeable.

 

[mjc]

I've got the 360 version reserved at the moment but I really don't know what to do now.

 

[Teknoman]

Yeah, pretty much. Final Fantasy XIII is just one of those games you have to see in motion. Screenshots really don't do it justice.

This kinda stuff happens all the time these days. Even back with RE5.

I've got the 360 version reserved at the moment but I really don't know what to do now.

If the 360 is the only one of the two HD systems you have, just play it on the 360.

 

[LiK]

I've got the 360 version reserved at the moment but I really don't know what to do now.

unless the framerate and loading is total shit. why worry?

This kinda stuff happens all the time these days. Even back with RE5.

indeed, RE5 is beautiful.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Not anymore, Moved my pre-order over to BC2.

-.-

 

[Mad_Ban]

I went back and re-sized that shot to it's proposed internal res (1024x576) and it doesn't look as terrible I guess; it is an 80% reduction--but that's what scaling is all about.

So in motion it shouldn't be that noticeable.

Now blow that up to 30/40 inches. ;P

 

[fernoca]

I've got the 360 version reserved at the moment but I really don't know what to do now.

If you have a PS3, change it to that.
If you don't, just get it for the Xbox and play there.
Is the same game, will look great and sound great on your set too.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Given how much I loved the JPN version (Second fav FF overall) I can't wait to get my hands on the engilsh version. I am intrested in the VA's so far.

The only thing is I really wish there was a special edition of the game and I pray I won't want to throw my controller through my TV when I actually understand Hope.

 

[jett]

I've got the 360 version reserved at the moment but I really don't know what to do now.

If the 360 is the only console you have just keep your reservation. *shrug* So many games this gen are sub-HD, FFXIII360 isn't the first and won't be the last.

 

[Teknoman]

unless the framerate and loading is total shit. why worry?



indeed, RE5 is beautiful.

If you have a PS3, change it to that.
If you don't, just get it for the Xbox and play there.
Is the same game, will look great and sound great on your set too.

Pretty much. No one has really said there are any drastic framerate differences, and of course for 360 theres the install option.

 

[hateradio]

Now blow that up to 30/40 inches. ;P

Again, that's what scaling is used for anyways, the game will still play (scaled) at 720p and 1080p.

If you have a PS3, no reason why you wouldn't want the game in that? Unless you really love live or something *shrugs

If you have a PS3, change it to that.
If you don't, just get it for the Xbox and play there.
Is the same game, will look great and sound great on your set too.

Actually in this case if you care or love lossless audio, you might want to go for the PS3 as well. Otherwise, yeah.

 

[badcrumble]

I'd be curious to hear about the development process for the 360 version (which we'll never hear a peep about, of course). 64% of the pixels of the PS3 version... if they had the Crystal Tools running on PC, I'm genuinely surprised that they couldn't get an identical port running on Xenon. Still, it'll look fine in motion and the top-selling game on each system is sub-HD so honestly we buy and enjoy sub-720p games all the time. It's going to sell gangbusters and be enjoyed by millions on both systems, I'm sure.

 

[Revelations]

If you have a PS3, change it to that.
If you don't, just get it for the Xbox and play there.
Is the same game, will look great and sound great on your set too.

Well I say if he does have a PS3 keep his 360 pre-order as there are no defining differences of one over the other that will cause to not have the same experience.

 

[Risette]

I remembered this older article,

While the eDRAM gives the 360 tangible advantages over the PS3 (it’s the reason why so many cross-format titles have anti-aliasing on 360 while it is omitted on the PS3 versions), 10Mb isn’t really enough for a full 720p framebuffer with the added overhead of anti-aliasing. Instead, developers switch memory in and out of the eDRAM in a process called ‘tiling’. This incurs an increased geometry cost for polygons that span more than one tile. In plain English? Realistically we expect the 360 version to match the 720p and 2x multisampling anti-aliasing of the PS3 game, but at a cost– the HDR lighting in the PS3 game will most likely be pared down from high range to medium range dynamic rendering.

Few games on 360 run with ‘proper’ HDR. Halo 3 is one of them, but this comes at a cost of a sub-HD resolution and no anti-aliasing. In the case of Final Fantasy XIII, the drop down to MDR simply makes more sense as opposed to savagely cutting down resolution or anti-aliasing. So aside from small changes to lighting, we expect the games to be totally like for like in the real time 3D sections, and due to that lightning fast eDRAM, there’s a strong chance that performance may actually be smoother. How small will the changes to lighting be? Considering we spent the best part of the day firing off 'is it proper HDR/isn’t it' emails to one-another, let’s just say that it’s highly unlikely any one will notice. A useful by-product of moving away from proper HDR on 360 will be that the alpha transparency issues the PS3 version has with the way it handles characters’ hair will most likely vanish.

I (poorly) bolded the parts that seemed important. I'm guessing that SE decided to keep the HDR lighting at the cost of resolution on the 360.

 

[goldenpp72]

Well I say if he does have a PS3 keep his 360 pre-order as there are no defining differences of one over the other that will cause to not have the same experience.

This thread is implying that the 360 version looks significantly worse.

 

[Kagari]

I'd be curious to hear about the development process for the 360 version (which we'll never hear a peep about, of course). 64% of the pixels of the PS3 version... if they had the Crystal Tools running on PC, I'm genuinely surprised that they couldn't get an identical port running on Xenon. Still, it'll look fine in motion and the top-selling game on each system is sub-HD so honestly we buy and enjoy sub-720p games all the time. It's going to sell gangbusters and be enjoyed by millions on both systems, I'm sure.

Crystal Tools was probably optimized for PS3 a few years ago, and then only recently 360.

 

[BeeDog]

Is there any doubt that the supposed 360 screenshots aren't just bad captures? Seems a bit premature to start a debate when nothing's solid yet. Or have I missed something?

 

[brandonh83]

Man this game has a killer soundtrack. Just killer. *bow Hamauzu*

 

[Zoe]

How are PS3 movie files handled with regards to the audio? Is the audio kept separate?

In other words, will the audio during the 360's movie files be worse off than real time audio?

 

[badcrumble]

I remembered this older article,


I (poorly) bolded the parts that seemed important. I'm guessing that SE decided to keep the HDR lighting at the cost of resolution on the 360.

Interesting - good catch, and it sounds like that, and later engine optimization as Kagari said, explains the difference.

 

[Alcahest]

please enlighten my neurons:
No SE for the US version.
No PS3 bundle announced.

And we're like 2 weeks from release.

there is something seriously fucked up going on.
Sony just can NOT be dumb enough to let such an opportunity pass by.

So well, anyone in the know, plz spill the beans.

 

[Zophar]

In game both versions have the same display and texture resolution. The major difference comes in the CGI cutscene fidelity and resolution. Which is higher on the PS3. This is coming from gamespots brief comparison rundown mind you.

You must've missed the last 24 hours of developments. All signs point to 360 being lower resolution in-game.

 

[Kagari]

Is there any doubt that the supposed 360 screenshots aren't just bad captures? Seems a bit premature to start a debate when nothing's solid yet. Or have I missed something?

The same site got a batch of screenshots for both systems; both are direct feed:

That Digital Foundry guy should re-analyze them.

 

[Revelations]

This thread is implying that the 360 version looks significantly worse.

Gamespot seem to disagree.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Honestly the dithering is pretty fucking disgusting even on the PS3 version:

The fuck is this shit? I haven't seen anything that horrible on any other PS3 games. Is that the best they could do after 4+ years of development? They sure hid this crap in all of their promo videos.

The jpeg compression on that image is fucking disgusting. Look at the messy text outline. I wouldn't be surprised if the dithering is a result of this too.

Gamespot seem to disagree.

:lol