Mediking
Member
Would be awesome to see you stream KH when it hits....
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Final Fantasy XV - 50 min video
- Thread starter Exentryk
- Start date
Would be awesome to see you stream KH when it hits....
No one has ever attempted a UE4 open world game, as far as i know anyway. But luckily, KH3 seems to be pushing the limits with way more open areas than ever previously seen.
Ok so after finally getting the higher bitrate video. I can most definitely see why people consider this game disappointing as hell when it comes to visuals.
It's not a super pretty looking game that's for sure.
I don't find this too different from Episode Duscae outside of the bloomy look ED went for.
I think the skin shaders still look a bit more impressive compared to Witcher's characters, even though in some lighting/shadowing conditions it does look downgraded from before.
And all of this downgrade sadness got me looking at other games I haven't played in a while. I think Driveclub, ignore it being a non-open world game (it renders a very vast landscape though), pretty much has the similar tech features and issues. Both XV and DC strive for photorealism by utilizing some mass pseudo-GI tech with dynamic time of day and a robust weather system and volume clouds that changes the atmosphere and general look across the environment. It's a very pretty game but it can suffer from looking like a last gen game too. Several of the environment textures and IQ suffers massively, mid day lighting just generally does not look good despite the lighting system doing great work at other times of day. And this is a first party game.
Duscae landscape xbone screencap in comparison
Need the final game with whatever graphical touches for direct-feed captures to make any more comparison but I don't think it'll be too far off from Witcher 3, which can look very rough on console too.
Novigrad also got a notable downgrade from the its initial reveal too. Didn't they pretty much have to re-do all of their rendering and lighting since it was too taxing?
I wouldn't be so quick to blame Luminous troubles considering what also happened here. Seems a lot of devs overshot their target, except the XV devs are only now finding out the consoles can't handle it because for whatever reason they decided to not make the PS4 the lead platform despite there being no PC version right now. :\
Rising_Hei
Member
Visuals aren't everything... we care so much about it because the game is not currently in our hands, but after a while we won't care about some aliasing.
This kind of has the kind of negativity NIER and Demon's Souls had before they were released... and we know how the story ended with those two.
I expect something similar with FFXV, whathever the outcome is there will always be unhappy people about the game because each person wants a FF according to their tastes, but i have the feeling that it will reach FFXII levels of greatness atleast, or even surpass it by a few. Isn't it great being able to like things for what they are instead of for what we think they should have been?
This kind of has the kind of negativity NIER and Demon's Souls had before they were released... and we know how the story ended with those two.
I expect something similar with FFXV, whathever the outcome is there will always be unhappy people about the game because each person wants a FF according to their tastes, but i have the feeling that it will reach FFXII levels of greatness atleast, or even surpass it by a few. Isn't it great being able to like things for what they are instead of for what we think they should have been?
The difference is benzy, those other devs managed to course correct pretty quickly and deliver great looking games despite being downgraded with good performance to boot(in witcher's case it took 6 months though...)
SE bsaed their entire development priority on this engine they started in 2011 with basically no real consideration for realistic current gen targets, thus the outcome we have now with a huge day 1 patch having to be folded into the game, no idea how that will turn out, and variable visuals/iffy performance at best. Did not have to be that way
SE bsaed their entire development priority on this engine they started in 2011 with basically no real consideration for realistic current gen targets, thus the outcome we have now with a huge day 1 patch having to be folded into the game, no idea how that will turn out, and variable visuals/iffy performance at best. Did not have to be that way
CDPR changed their whole rendering for W3 pretty early in development. The game still released to having sections where the framerate locked to 20fps on PS4, notable dips everytime Geralt walked across a dynamic light source in Novigrad. I wouldn't call it good performance until many patches later after release, which did fix the performance but it wasn't until patch 1.08 or something.
DC was also delayed for a year from its initial launch date.
dragonzdogma
Member
I agreewith other games, but back then, buying a Final fantasy title meant you were buying a long lasting game with the best graphics and tech available.
That reminds me does uncharted 4 use their own in house engine ?
I mean, KH3 is nothing similar tbh. KH will probably consist of like, literally dozens of loading screens between areas probably. Whereas for FFXV, it's very possible that there are no loading screens at all unless for big boss fights.
Then you take into account the modes of transportation (you can fly in FFXV), NPCs, etc. Day/Night cycles, random weather, even the spells in KH3 aren't as graphically intense. It doesn't even come close to the complexity.
They damn well should. The witcher's skin shaders are actually quite primitive comparatively to many games this gen. But the characters in W3 look good because of the way they handled the art in a sensible manner.
(I still can't get over how the hair completely ruins the holistic quality of facial shots in XV, I mean, even the eyelashes and eyebrows suffer from dithering).
I don't know about dozens of loading screens, based on the trailers, sora jumped from a pretty high ledge down to what looked like the bottom of a ravine and no loading screens.
Yeah i know it obviously is not open world, but i don't expect many loading screens in each world which i expect to be pretty big
Should be a nice area of improvement for Cyberpunk. PC XV vs Cyberpunk in 2018.
Yeah, I wonder what AA they were using in 2014 because it cleaned up those thin lines much better. Pretty disappointed in their current TAA.
EatinOlives
Member
Well put. XV's IQ is obviously something that has plenty of room for improvement but this idea that it looks under par is not really grounded on reality based on similarly open-world games. I can boot up Assassin's Creed Syndicate and play for 50 minutes and find plenty of areas where the game's textures, jaggies, and dithered visuals come together to deliver a poor-looking screenshot.
Driveclub is a great example, because despite it being a traditional racer, it renders everything using dynamic lighting and very similar world geometry to that of an open-world game. If the time of day and lighting is exactly right (read: wrong), you can get some pretty iffy looking visuals out of it.
And, at any rate, the game looks infinitely better in motion. I thought the Platinum Demo looked like hot garbage until I tried it, and was surprised to see that the game in motion actually looked pretty nice.
EDIT: for me it's taken a while to really grasp this, but FFXV is for all intents and purposes an open world game. Visuals in open-world games always take a bit of a hit considering their sheer scale. I really don't see much in FFXV that's way out of line or way under par.
Should be a nice area of improvement for Cyberpunk. PC XV vs Cyberpunk in 2018.
If FFXV can reach 2014 levels of fidelity with a PC release.
The dream!
I don't find this too different from Episode Duscae outside of the bloomy look ED went for.
I think the skin shaders still look a bit more impressive compared to Witcher's characters, even though in some lighting/shadowing conditions it does look downgraded from before.
And all of this downgrade sadness got me looking at other games I haven't played in a while. I think Driveclub, ignore it being a non-open world game (it renders a very vast landscape though), pretty much has the similar tech features and issues. Both XV and DC strive for photorealism by utilizing some mass pseudo-GI tech with dynamic time of day and a robust weather system and volume clouds that changes the atmosphere and general look across the environment. It's a very pretty game but it can suffer from looking like a last gen game too. Several of the environment textures and IQ suffers massively, mid day lighting just generally does not look good despite the lighting system doing great work at other times of day. And this is a first party game.
Duscae landscape xbone screencap in comparison
Need the final game with whatever graphical touches for direct-feed captures to make any more comparison but I don't think it'll be too far off from Witcher 3, which can look very rough on console too.
Novigrad also got a notable downgrade from the its initial reveal too. Didn't they pretty much have to re-do all of their rendering and lighting since it was too taxing?
I wouldn't be so quick to blame Luminous troubles considering what also happened here. Seems a lot of devs overshot their target, except the XV devs are only now finding out the consoles can't handle it because for whatever reason they decided to not make the PS4 the lead platform despite there being no PC version right now. :\
amazing post benzy
Just look at all the screens from PS4 capture, I don't think people realize the FFXV is on par or better on a lot of things.
Never realized actually how bad Witcher 3 can look in some screenshots from consoles lol
YankeeDonB
Member
Those Novigrad downgrade screenshots are actually making me feel quite a bit better about the apparent Lestalum downgrade (granted 2 months of polishing to go).
I remember the fire and brimstone over the Witcher 3 downgrade, but the game ended up being something damn special anyway, even though the lighting was flat and the framerate choppy.
I remember the fire and brimstone over the Witcher 3 downgrade, but the game ended up being something damn special anyway, even though the lighting was flat and the framerate choppy.
I feel like overall a lot of their optimization process has involved removing details/processing that don't affect the overall composition of shots (durr, captain obvious) but are really noticeable when you zoom in.
Feels like this is why the game still looks relatively offscreen and in smaller thumbnails (moreso than other games) and especially in motion, since it seems to want to preserve the overall composition of the scenes.
I'm probably going to get skewered for this, but I also feel that part of the reason Episode Duscae looks 'great' has a lot to do with the vignette. Yeah, it really sucks for gameplay, and it makes things a little too dark in certain framings, but cliche as it is it helps build that overall composition for any given screenshot, and takes away some immediate attention from other visual problems. The 'smearing' inherent to the IQ in duscae also helps masks a lot of things, a somewhat similar but persistent effect compared to when the 50min footage goes DOF heavy.
edit
This
has a vignette if you pay close attention.
Feels like this is why the game still looks relatively offscreen and in smaller thumbnails (moreso than other games) and especially in motion, since it seems to want to preserve the overall composition of the scenes.
I'm probably going to get skewered for this, but I also feel that part of the reason Episode Duscae looks 'great' has a lot to do with the vignette. Yeah, it really sucks for gameplay, and it makes things a little too dark in certain framings, but cliche as it is it helps build that overall composition for any given screenshot, and takes away some immediate attention from other visual problems. The 'smearing' inherent to the IQ in duscae also helps masks a lot of things, a somewhat similar but persistent effect compared to when the 50min footage goes DOF heavy.
edit
This
has a vignette if you pay close attention.
Yeah, I wonder what AA they were using in 2014 because it cleaned up those thin lines much better. Pretty disappointed in their current TAA.
I think there is a slide somewhere that mentions it is using MSAA 8x (or maybe just 4x). They'll also be using alpha to coverage for the hair.
Mediking
Member
?! Falk?! IS that you?! Hey!!!
mortal
Member
That is dream, man!
The October walkthrough is ideal for this game, and its fantasy based on reality art direction. You can't start off that solid and end up where we are now without any backlash.
FalsettoVibe
Member
I don't find this too different from Episode Duscae outside of the bloomy look ED went for.
I think the skin shaders still look a bit more impressive compared to Witcher's characters, even though in some lighting/shadowing conditions it does look downgraded from before.
And all of this downgrade sadness got me looking at other games I haven't played in a while. I think Driveclub, ignore it being a non-open world game (it renders a very vast landscape though), pretty much has the similar tech features and issues. Both XV and DC strive for photorealism by utilizing some mass pseudo-GI tech with dynamic time of day and a robust weather system and volume clouds that changes the atmosphere and general look across the environment. It's a very pretty game but it can suffer from looking like a last gen game too. Several of the environment textures and IQ suffers massively, mid day lighting just generally does not look good despite the lighting system doing great work at other times of day. And this is a first party game.
Duscae landscape xbone screencap in comparison
Need the final game with whatever graphical touches for direct-feed captures to make any more comparison but I don't think it'll be too far off from Witcher 3, which can look very rough on console too.
Novigrad also got a notable downgrade from the its initial reveal too. Didn't they pretty much have to re-do all of their rendering and lighting since it was too taxing?
I wouldn't be so quick to blame Luminous troubles considering what also happened here. Seems a lot of devs overshot their target, except the XV devs are only now finding out the consoles can't handle it because for whatever reason they decided to not make the PS4 the lead platform despite there being no PC version right now. :\
Great post. I think the game looks good and still has plenty of time to look better.
http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/gmw/docs/575/412/html/79.jpg.html
http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/gmw/docs/575/412/html/80.jpg.html
they only have two months and a day 1 patch worth of time left. Let's hope.
It doesn't look unacceptable in the recent footage, but it does look notably compromised.
Luminous seems to only be familiar at this point with the dev team working on it through FF15, not a good look for an engine they wanted at one point to be the only engine they use in the company for all games.
It would make more sense to just use UE4, which is global, modern and easier
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That's because their initial system relied on hand placed lighting that wouldn't be feasible in an open world game. Probably wasn't a good to like Square Enix, showcase target render footage in a trailer. I don't find the skin shaders in FFXV to be superior to Witcher 3's , especially when it comes to the npcs. Witcher is way more consistent. I didn't just pick and choose scenes, that's one of the first closeups of Noctis in a cutscene, and the first closeup of Cid. Considering the really nonsensical workflow they have to go through with this engine, I don't think it's a good investment to continue going forward with it when there are great alternatives that would lead to the same if not straight up better results in a shorter amount of time no less.
Yeah KH3 is aiming to be more seamless too. It won't be like the other games.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Wasn't Days Gone to be confirmed running on UE4?
Just by the different worlds you'll have loading screens. Pretty seamless is very far from what's likely completely seamless.
My main thing is everyone develops their own in-house engine for open world games. Why?
Initially Square Enix wanted Luminous studios to be their end all be all engine and they were going to use it to lure devs to sign with them as the publisher which would have been the only way to use the engine. At this point FFXV is currently the only game using luminous while everyone moved/ported their projects to UE4.
Even if they finish this game with luminous they would be better of just moving over to UE4 with FFXVI at this point
YUP!
Even if they finish this game with luminous they would be better of just moving over to UE4 with FFXVI at this point
YUP!
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yes.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
I mean I'm not asking for that level of fidelity and IQ, but the the KH3 character models look like shit, like they're missing shaders and textures. Maybe the art didn't translate well or something because this gen can do way better than this:
Cause its more appropriate for each of their specific needs, but even then, not every dev does. arkham knight was UE3 and pretty open.
Apparently days gone(which i completely forgot about) is UE4 ect..
Unreal Engine also means it's much easier to port to other platforms, e.g. PC.
... oh
... oh
it still early and we could see a imporve look in december when they have more news about kh3
That image is still early and in context happens during gameplay in a split second. I think we can judge properly once we see how they look like during cutscenes in KH 2.8.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Very little jagged edges indicate that it's a pretty high poly model relatively speaking. They're, (thankfully), going for a stylized look instead of a photorealistic one, realistic skin textures on that model would look really strange. It would be like putting realistic skin textures on a Pixar model, and this is their biggest attempt at "realism":
NoctisVsStar
Member
Custom UE3
An unfinished game looks like an unfinished game.
That trailer is like...years before the actual release of KH3, which is most likely sometime next year. Atleast wait before its close to release before saying that, i'm sure they will optimize everything as best they can.
I can understand being annnoying because the character models didn't look as amazing as you were expecting in previous trailers, but even if they do end up only a little better than what we've seen so far, that's a lot better than the game never coming out.
Aqua actually looks pretty good
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fPoQw2J177c/maxresdefault.jpg
copelandmaster
Member
I'm not a fan of the stipulation that this game had to be lead PS4 for whatever reason. If anything, after all of the "in development downgrade" talk this gen, FFXV could finally be fresh air in this regard.
There's nothing wrong with a AAA multiplat game being designed with PC as the version and the others being perfectly functional, but obviously inferior ports.
Just because PS4 is the market leader that everyone owns doesn't mean that publishing/dev houses have to walk a certain line in order to get a game out. Plenty of games this gen were announced with a better looking & better performing PC version by default and yet those publishers still got marketing deals with Sony or Microsoft. Which makes stuff like CDPRs stipulation on parity that much more frustrating ( to be fair if it was a manpower/resources reason, I totally get that. However, SE doesn't have as much of a problem in this regard by comparison).
In the olden days, different platforms often received either completely revamped or significantly toned down versions of a game. While radically different, most still turned out fine. Hell, my entire gaming experience in the early 00s was playing perfectly serviceable versions of PSone games that were very different on the Dreamcast/PS2/PC (THPS 3, Jedi Power Battles, Capcom vs SNK, Tekken 3, Star Wars Demolition, Re volt).
The difference between the "PC" and console versions of this game are nowhere near as extreme because engines are built to be scale-able now by default - all the way down to mobile. Most of the audience won't care/will settle on launch either way - there are many reasons why consoles win the popularity contest and have the desrved market share to negate any negative mind share surrounding any disparity: initial cost, friends, investment in an ecosystem, convenience, etc.
The problem lies with SE refusing to back down from their initial Agni target after they got wind of pair's final specs and then -
EDIT: thought completion
There's nothing wrong with a AAA multiplat game being designed with PC as the version and the others being perfectly functional, but obviously inferior ports.
Just because PS4 is the market leader that everyone owns doesn't mean that publishing/dev houses have to walk a certain line in order to get a game out. Plenty of games this gen were announced with a better looking & better performing PC version by default and yet those publishers still got marketing deals with Sony or Microsoft. Which makes stuff like CDPRs stipulation on parity that much more frustrating ( to be fair if it was a manpower/resources reason, I totally get that. However, SE doesn't have as much of a problem in this regard by comparison).
In the olden days, different platforms often received either completely revamped or significantly toned down versions of a game. While radically different, most still turned out fine. Hell, my entire gaming experience in the early 00s was playing perfectly serviceable versions of PSone games that were very different on the Dreamcast/PS2/PC (THPS 3, Jedi Power Battles, Capcom vs SNK, Tekken 3, Star Wars Demolition, Re volt).
The difference between the "PC" and console versions of this game are nowhere near as extreme because engines are built to be scale-able now by default - all the way down to mobile. Most of the audience won't care/will settle on launch either way - there are many reasons why consoles win the popularity contest and have the desrved market share to negate any negative mind share surrounding any disparity: initial cost, friends, investment in an ecosystem, convenience, etc.
The problem lies with SE refusing to back down from their initial Agni target after they got wind of pair's final specs and then -
- touting PS4/XB1 as the only versions and failing to budget for the simultaneous development of a PC version during the July 2012 revamp despite the obvious market shifts at that point and the interim
- Showing PC footage (which they couldn't really help, being an in dev game and all) spec-d to a higher end i7+ GTX x80 powered rig (absolutely their fault) most of the time for 2+ years , and then leaving a lot of people disappointed nearing the finish line - console fans feeling mislead, PC fans feeling second banana
EDIT: thought completion
Mediking
Member
I fully support Yoshida as the director of 16.
I'd like to see Ito be given a shot at XVI. Been too long since we had a game from him.
But Yoshida has done some great work with XIV so if they want to give him a shot then I'd be for it too.
I'm curious what Tabata will do from here. I would like to see him head another Final Fantasy like Type-Next and see what he could do.
But Yoshida has done some great work with XIV so if they want to give him a shot then I'd be for it too.
I'm curious what Tabata will do from here. I would like to see him head another Final Fantasy like Type-Next and see what he could do.
I haven't thought about the game design, but my FFXVI would be mainly inspired by Cowboy Bebop and where the main party are bounty hunters in space.
I've imagined a few trailers in my head cut to these tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRxPFRHwjcI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUsU9C_Lizw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nftxDrStny8
I have nothing else. I just know it looks cool as hell.
Oh, this the battle theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6jCJZEFIto
HIRE ME MATSUDAAAAAA
I've imagined a few trailers in my head cut to these tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRxPFRHwjcI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUsU9C_Lizw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nftxDrStny8
I have nothing else. I just know it looks cool as hell.
Oh, this the battle theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6jCJZEFIto
HIRE ME MATSUDAAAAAA
Nobody is saying they should have been forced to do anything. It just would have turned out better console wise in terms of quality if they had lead on PS4, and then they obviously could have ported easily to PC a competent port.
They only were ever advertising PS4 and XB1 for this game and have not seriously talked about a PC version. With that in mind, they should have prepared better for the SKU's they were advertising, instead of acting like PC components were the only option, and not even releasing a day and date version for PC.
Their workflow with Luminous is still messed up if they are releasing downgraded ports to console as a priority, and swatting those users while not even releasing on PC day and date to take advantage of that greater hardware, swatting the PC userbase as well.
Why even have this workflow in the first place in that case.
