nelsonroyale
Member
I personally didn't think that Okami looked as impressive overall at all. FFXV seem to be attempting much more. Okami probably had better cohesion between its artistic and technical elements though.
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Final Fantasy XV - 50 min video
- Thread starter Exentryk
- Start date
I personally didn't think that Okami looked as impressive overall at all. FFXV seem to be attempting much more. Okami probably had better cohesion between its artistic and technical elements though.
encephalon
Member
Why would you dig into xbox and GCN games? Silent Hill 3 and MGS3 weren't "par for the course" at the time, either. They were above and beyond. Just like FFXII.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Those came out years before XII.
I honestly thought of XII as being a slightly polished up FFXI (from 2002 and not a looker at launch). Never thought we'd be talking about its graphical prowess years later.
I don't see why genre even matters. But if your golden age for FF technological brilliance was PS1, that's all pre-rendered CGI. It seems a bit inelegant to translate that into a "dropping the ball" narrative now that they aren't the top example of real-time graphics.
I don't think FF has really been the cutting edge graphical series, and I remember how these games looked and were received when they were new. It's the great art series.... and I do think XV has great art too.
It's had it's graphically high point moments. Again, X and XIII, but outside of that... not so much.
encephalon
Member
And what PS2 JRPG looked better? FFXII looks nothing like FFXI.
It wasn't all CG. FFVIII and FFIX looked top of the line for the time, especially with the 3D battles.
This is off topic, sorry, but is there a good video explaining all these technical terms? LOD, AA, etc. I have no idea what the fuck you guys are talking about and I want in.
Also, as a huge FF 6-10 + 12 fan who is avoiding watching this video, what is this forum's consensus on how the game looks like it's going to play? Does it look like an improvement over Duscae and Platinum demo? Because the gameplay seemed kind of sluggish and uninteresting when I played those.
Absolutely hoping for the best and I do have faith in SE even after 13.
Also, as a huge FF 6-10 + 12 fan who is avoiding watching this video, what is this forum's consensus on how the game looks like it's going to play? Does it look like an improvement over Duscae and Platinum demo? Because the gameplay seemed kind of sluggish and uninteresting when I played those.
Absolutely hoping for the best and I do have faith in SE even after 13.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm still not sure why you'd restrict your comparison to jRPGs. If we use that metric.... no jRPG is going to look better than XV either.
Then, as now, a lot of its contemporaries in any genre will look better.
FFVIII's 3D looked fine. It wasn't far beyond PS1 games like MGS1 (or dare you look at what was on the PC at the time).
So when people say games like Witcher 3 look better than XV... yeah, great... this is how it's always been.
We're all a bunch of armchair technical analysts in here
trust me, people start somewhere.LOD refers to "level of detail" that is, the amount of detail displayed on screen depending how far away the camera is to the structure. Ever notice how structures in the distance get less detailed the further away you are? Its that.
AA is just anti anliasing, different kinds of technique used to smooth over and eliminate jagged edges on a game image.
As for the gameplay impressions, it looks the most polished the gameplay has been and much more responsive than duscue or platinum, but its still that gameplay system at its core.
Death Penalty
Member
Tragically true. Most JRPGs look like they're developed at least a generation behind, if not more. I'm glad XV can at least look like it belongs in the generation it was developed for.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
We're all a bunch of armchair technical analysts in here
The one I still don't get is PBR.
And because I was in an XV thread when I saw it, I immediately assumed they had added Pabst Blue Ribbon to the game a la Coleman and American Express.
Having super realistic graphics doesn't make a game look like it belongs in a generation.
Take away the PS3 version and P5, because of its artstyle becomes generationless. Just call it a smaller scale and budgeted PS4 game
Lol. Physics based lighting is just a different way of rendering how light interacts with materials. Its far more advanced than most techniques used in the 7th gen, in that it can simulate how light would realistically hit different kinds of objects depending on their surface.
Its different from traditional lighting, where assets remain static.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Especially now, since jRPGs are a really niche genre.
But even in any golden age of jRPGs you can name, most of them weren't striving for graphical realism when you had the 800 pound gorilla in the room that was Final Fantasy satisfying that demand.
Aside from the rare effort I can think of (Legend of Dragoon? Valkyrie Profile 2? Baten Kaitos?), most jRPGs targeted cartoony, minimal or stylized art styles.
That's helpful. Thanks. I really should know these things since I claim to dabble in indie game development......
Death Penalty
Member
I'm not talking quality of games here, I'm talking games that actually utilize hardware and push forward. P5 has a snappy art style, but I sincerely doubt it even taxes the PS3. Atlus, just like most other Japanese companies, have shown no indication that they can actually develop games that belong on modern hardware. You can let yourself be smitten by the game's style, but this is still a fact.
My point is the same. Just because a game doesn't have super realistic graphics, runs in an open world and ticks all the boxes of a conventional modern open world title doesn't mean it doesn't fulfill the expectations of a 'current generation title'.
Games have never been about that. The fact of the matter is, devs have to actually work within the confines of the hardware they are given, and just because they do that, doesn't mean they are not being ambitious in their own ways.
That's helpful. Thanks. I really should know these things since I claim to dabble in indie game development......
Heh, its important because even though its just simulating light, it affects all things in the actual game world because just like in real life, light affects everything in a different way visually.
Death Penalty
Member
We're talking about specs here, aren't we? That's the direction this thread has taken? And I was also abundantly clear I was talking about specs, not game quality. In the realm of utilizing technology and pushing the envelope, there's a clear decline on the Japanese end of things especially on the JRPG front. Most JRPGs that come out might as well be on PS3 or even PS2. Final Fantasy is the only one I can name off of the top of my head that still strives for excellence in this particular domain.
I mean, there's a reason that we keep posting those Witcher screenshots. This beauty and grandeur is not nothing. The Witcher would be missing something integral without it and would not be capable of inspiring the same wonder. They release new consoles with higher specs because specs are important to the growth and development of gaming as a whole. JRPGs in this regard seem extremely stunted in their growth like they can no longer keep up. This isn't the be all end all of what makes a good game and I never implied that. However, there's an intrinsic value to the fact that of all the JRPG franchises out there, Final Fantasy seems to be the only one still pursuing this sort of growth. Maybe you disagree, that's fine. But for me, no other JRPG comes close, even to XV with its troubling IQ.
Persona is a well-respected franchise, but Atlus falls prey to the same thing as other companies in their position. Great art style, but I wouldn't call it "generationless". I can pretty easily peg it as a low-spec PS3 game, its other merits notwithstanding.
computers putin'
Member
Sure there's some technical issues, but they don't bother me TOO much. The game looks like so much fun, the scope of everything is magnificent, I love the art direction, looks beautiful in spite of the technical issues, and feels like an actual, free roaming adventure. I'm totally hype for it's release.
Also don't forget to look up:
IQ = image quality
AF = anisotropic filtering
GI = global illumination
These three get also often thrown around, especially in any FFXV thread.
'falls prey?' working within their limitations to deliver something bigger than anything they've certainly ever previously made in terms of scope isn't particularly being conservative for their particular standards you know?
If we're just talking in terms of competing with western AAA games on graphics and world size and pure bloat, its just an unfortunate truth that no other devs in japan really have the budget or resources to bother to do that besides SE. Years ago when games cost much less, required much less resources, and were generally only played on consoles, other devs managed to keep up in different ways.
But today, its just unfeasible for Japan's development industry to continue on in such a way, especially with core gaming there becoming less relevant every day.
In that way, the fact that Atlus is coming at pushing their own envelope in their own way for core gaming and bucking the easier trends of becoming more casual really should be respected a lot more.
Death Penalty
Member
Yes, and this is why Final Fantasy's pursuit of graphical excellence is something that's extremely worthwhile. Other JRPGs don't see the level of success that it does, so it's standing as sorta the last torch-bearer of this type of game. You can write this off to 'bloat' or whatever derogatory term you like, but I'd really like to see this sort of game preserved and even successful because it's a dying breed and no small part of why I as a youngster got into gaming at all. People really like to rip on the idea of striving for realistic graphics, polish and scope when it's its own type of excellence- and I happen to believe that Final Fantasy also provides quality games most of the time so there's that, too.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Even then, that screenshot shown more interesting field landscape than anything I seen of XV. All the fog in the background really helped to mask any flat, boring plains.
You know exactly why a 40+ hour rpg can't be graphically compared to a 15 hour linear action game.
I don't hate AAA gaming, far from it. But pursuing technical accomplishment in my opinion over everything is just another way of entering the hell that was last gen: skyrocketing costs with a dwindling player base to sustain such a thing. Its what got SE into trouble in the first place trying to chase the best graphics over having a basic competent foundation
I highly disagree with you, especially with those screenshots.
Oops, I seemed to have started all this FF XV vs Witcher 3 graphics disagreement with what was supposed to be an innocent comment a few pages back...
I think both Final Fantasy XV and The Witcher 3 look beautiful on the PS4, which is the only place I've played The Witcher 3 and both demoes for this game. Neither of them are close to perfect and I would really like both to be better than they are in certain areas and both games do different things better than the other.
There's nothing at all wrong with picking out the technical shortcomings of either game, they both have many, but as a whole I find that they're both doing things that really have impressed me. I'm genuinely more than happy with how this game looks but that doesn't mean that I don't also see the things it does't do so well. The very simple truth is that I still think it's a beautiful game, along with The Witcher 3, and I know that some will disagree with my thoughts but when it comes down to it, I doesn't really matter if people think differently and I have no interest in even attempting to change people's minds who disagree with me.
Nah nah na na nah!!! Etc, etc.
If you didn't like that, my following comments will likely kill you.
I think both Final Fantasy XV and The Witcher 3 look beautiful on the PS4, which is the only place I've played The Witcher 3 and both demoes for this game. Neither of them are close to perfect and I would really like both to be better than they are in certain areas and both games do different things better than the other.
There's nothing at all wrong with picking out the technical shortcomings of either game, they both have many, but as a whole I find that they're both doing things that really have impressed me. I'm genuinely more than happy with how this game looks but that doesn't mean that I don't also see the things it does't do so well. The very simple truth is that I still think it's a beautiful game, along with The Witcher 3, and I know that some will disagree with my thoughts but when it comes down to it, I doesn't really matter if people think differently and I have no interest in even attempting to change people's minds who disagree with me.
Nah nah na na nah!!! Etc, etc.
I know, I'm such a child!!!
to try and bring this back to the 50 minute video. Watched an analysis vid and some pretty interesting stuff that we've pretty much all missed.
Link here if you want to watch it, has some misinformation in some parts
Its mostly small stuff but basically the bits we missed are:
- Chest icon on the mini-map. Seems like chests are in.
- The Cocytus is an elemental weapon. Always love those :3
- The Engine Blade was a birthday gift (lol)
- Engine Blade makes the same (or at least similar) revving noise heard in the original versus reveal trailer.
- Clinging onto a warp point uses stamina (same as running) so you can't just stay there and be safe out of harms way forever anymore.
- The game will let you know when treasure or mining (elemental stuff) is nearby.
- There's an advert for Cup Noodle on a billboard (lol)
- another Royal Arm(?) called "swords of the wonderer"
and some stuff I noticed that the video guy didn't:
- Chocobo sprinting seems to take out a bit of stamina at a time for a moment of sprinting, its not like a run. But Chocobo's regain stamina over time, its not like FF12's Gysahl Greens (yay!)
- Iris is actually a "party member" in the scenes were they are walking around together. Her HP is measly though, but it does give cadence to the idea that she is an added guest member
Link here if you want to watch it, has some misinformation in some parts
Its mostly small stuff but basically the bits we missed are:
- Chest icon on the mini-map. Seems like chests are in.
- The Cocytus is an elemental weapon. Always love those :3
- The Engine Blade was a birthday gift (lol)
- Engine Blade makes the same (or at least similar) revving noise heard in the original versus reveal trailer.
- Clinging onto a warp point uses stamina (same as running) so you can't just stay there and be safe out of harms way forever anymore.
- The game will let you know when treasure or mining (elemental stuff) is nearby.
- There's an advert for Cup Noodle on a billboard (lol)
- another Royal Arm(?) called "swords of the wonderer"
and some stuff I noticed that the video guy didn't:
- Chocobo sprinting seems to take out a bit of stamina at a time for a moment of sprinting, its not like a run. But Chocobo's regain stamina over time, its not like FF12's Gysahl Greens (yay!)
- Iris is actually a "party member" in the scenes were they are walking around together. Her HP is measly though, but it does give cadence to the idea that she is an added guest member
gamergirly
Member
Then you're fucked. Might need to wait a few months after the release then.....
Thank goodness i'm bot the only one wanting to murder my screen because of the bad voice acting. Its something that peeves me so, when anime voice acting creeps up for subpar performance and awkward deliveries. The blonde guy sounds like every awkward anime teen ever and the burly one is just grunt voice with no sense of honesty or range in performance. Crap like this was tolerable in the ps2 era with things like dynasty warriors.
The banter and itself seemed weirdly cut too and not fluid. Just sentences glued one after another with oddly timed breaks. It felt like it was there just to fill a check box, and not a freely moving part like uncharted.
Square desperately needs to hire good casting directors for starters.
As for graphics; enh. Whatever. I'm more concerned with the odd tonal inconsistency of snall-town dining:fireside hot dog eating whilst a kingdom is in immediate dissaray.
Hentailover
Member
Something I didn't notice personally is that Phantom weapons, not only can be used as regular weapons, they tend to be unique, and not necessarily fall under the usual category. So kinda like the tools like the buzzsaw, it gives that needed variety beyond the generic weapons you use normally
@RedMakuzawa
Does anybody know if, for example, SE added some smaller UI/QoL features in the next 2 months, like being able to open the map or quest log during driving, which at the moment isn't possible and some complained about, do they have to go through the rating approvement or certification process again? What about any day-one patches?
The team won't be adding anything extra before release. The extra 2 months will be used to fix bugs and polish FFXV more.
Does anybody know if, for example, SE added some smaller UI/QoL features in the next 2 months, like being able to open the map or quest log during driving, which at the moment isn't possible and some complained about, do they have to go through the rating approvement or certification process again? What about any day-one patches?
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
I think the Witcher 3 looks "cleaner" but FFXV is more ambitious, particularly when it comes to specific details up close and personal. These are pics taken by me of the PS4 version.
But also, the character models don't look too bad either.
But I will say that the scene where you're fighting that spider like creature in the king's tomb looked fantastic. So, maybe it's accurate to say FFXV's got a better lighting system?
But also, the character models don't look too bad either.
But I will say that the scene where you're fighting that spider like creature in the king's tomb looked fantastic. So, maybe it's accurate to say FFXV's got a better lighting system?
Those types of things can be added in a patch so I don't see why they can't fix it now. The XV team seems to get feedback through twitter/facebook so I would make it known to them this is a pretty annoying design issue if we can't open the map and quest log while driving.
xion4360
Member
Im personally over the witcher 3 comparisons. were not getting a full picture of FFXV and what it does until its out.
I remember a lot of complaining about TW3 being downgraded, and many people saying FFXIII looked disappointing before release and yet now most people think its one of the best looking games of last gen. TW3 looks fantastic, but it also sometimes doesnt look all that great. Its a selective set of images being shown, whereas we only have the footage that is available to us of FFXV. its unfair to say the least.
I remember a lot of complaining about TW3 being downgraded, and many people saying FFXIII looked disappointing before release and yet now most people think its one of the best looking games of last gen. TW3 looks fantastic, but it also sometimes doesnt look all that great. Its a selective set of images being shown, whereas we only have the footage that is available to us of FFXV. its unfair to say the least.
Holy shit, Witcher 3 on PS4 looks rough. I was a bit disappointed I had to play it at 30fps on my PC and couldn't get to 60 even lowering settings, but looking at these shots, it starts to make sense.
Can you at least disable the Chromatic Aberration and Vignette on consoles as well? Since it's CDPR, I'm assuming you can.
Can you at least disable the Chromatic Aberration and Vignette on consoles as well? Since it's CDPR, I'm assuming you can.
Vincent Grayson
Member
They haven't gone through the process yet. The version playable at Gamescom *would* have been the one going through cert or whatever now, but it's not because they decided to delay. The version that goes through cert will be what would have previously been the "day one" version.
As such, I imagine they'll plan on locking the new "master"/gold version right around the original release date.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
This is good as I could've sworn they said the opposite a couple days ago.
No they didn't.
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
Didn't Tabata say something like that in the video where he announced the delay?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fbOOEPYhNpA
Sorry don't know how to embed videos now
They say its very FFX/Kingdom Hearts.
Mediking
Member
lol this is great
I would literally shake Tabata's hand and talk to him about stuff if I ever met him.
Ooh I'm gonna check this video out, thanks for posting this!!
Yep, I think that's a given. But obviously cuts had to be made elsewhere.
GreenMakoEyes
Member
japanese FFXV Twitter account posted a picture (off screen) showing amazing quality of the visuals, way better than the footage on youtube. Everything seems high res in the picture even in the distant everything is sharp and nice. Whats going on here, is this the PC build with modded PS buttons? lol
Devilinthiscity
Member
PS Neo version confirmedjapanese FFXV Twitter account posted a picture (off screen) showing amazing quality of the visuals, way better than the footage on youtube. Everything seems high res in the picture even in the distant everything is sharp and nice. Whats going on here, is this the PC build with modded PS buttons? lol
Probably running on a PC if the recent direct console screenshots are anything to go by.
japanese FFXV Twitter account posted a picture (off screen) showing amazing quality of the visuals, way better than the footage on youtube. Everything seems high res in the picture even in the distant everything is sharp and nice. Whats going on here, is this the PC build with modded PS buttons? lol
Off screen images of games tend to flatter games because you see the game smaller on the picture, with less attention to ugly details and the contrast is also higher. Higher contrast always looks better.
This is definitely the PS version. They have always been candid with what version they are showing and never faked button prompts.
More contrast (from projector settings or otherwise) always helps a washed-out look.
Also, really, unless you had a closer view of the projector screen you wouldn't see the same issues as direct feed screenshots (AF, billboard vegetation, etc)
It's the same reason screenshots resized to 50% hide a lot of IQ issues.
I think people need to relax, remember this would have been a version on disc minus day 1 patch, and realize that the final is going to have at least some issues cleaned up.
Also, really, unless you had a closer view of the projector screen you wouldn't see the same issues as direct feed screenshots (AF, billboard vegetation, etc)
It's the same reason screenshots resized to 50% hide a lot of IQ issues.
I think people need to relax, remember this would have been a version on disc minus day 1 patch, and realize that the final is going to have at least some issues cleaned up.