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[Famassu]

I'm surprised all the development hell this thing went through actually delivered a good game. I kinda regret reading the spoilers thread now

I still don't agree that FFXV went through a development hell, at least not on the level that we should have ever assumed would automatically result in a total disaster. The game has gone through some big changes (even during Nomura's time with the project), but I don't think any of them are anything too out of the ordinary for big projects like FFXV, in fact there are probably games that are far more different from their original pitches than FFXV that went through less time from announcement to release. FFXV at least partly holds onto a lot of early story concepts (Insomnia's invasion, theft of crystal, a road movie type journey through the world, integration of huge ass summons, ), art style, characters, musical style, gameplay ideas. Sure, most of them have gone through more or less changes, but the core is still extremely similar to what was described early on.

At first the game simply wasn't developed by any kind of sizable team for years after its announcement (because it was never supposed to be focused on until after XIII & XIV) and then when they did eventually get around to it after all the fuck-ups with XIII & XIV, it was so late in the previous generation that they decided to move the project to the next generation of consoles. Then they just (or "just") semi-rebooted the game because 1) they wanted to take full advantage of the more powerful hardware so holding on to past work wouldn't have worked & 2) the XIII trilogy disaster had maybe made them realize that they need to move on from the 2006-announced FF games already, so tying the kind of resources to a whole Versus Saga that it would have required for the next decade years before the first game is even out was, I assume, not something they wanted to try again after XIII dragged the franchise through mud. Better to just focus on making one complete game than something that requires 2-3(+) games to fully resolve.

I mean, I guess you can say that's what development hell is (I say it's just delay in full production until they had the resources to focus on it and then a somewhat forced generational switch that pushed them to simplify some aspects of their previous plans), but it's not a similar kind of development hell as something like Duke Nukem Forever that was actively worked on for a long time, and was rebooted, like, 10 times and switched developer studios. The only bigger changes in FFVsXIII/XV are the evolution from the first pre-rendered CGI trailers to what we saw in 2011 & 2013 (which is just natural evolution of any story that goes from early concepts & plans towards a more fleshed out & finished version of the story where some cuts & edits have been made) and then whatever changes they had to make to the story once they decided to shorten the saga into a single game. There's still a hell of a lot that they kept from all the original concepts and tidbits we know of Versus XIII, no matter if there are small & big changes to most of those concepts.

 

[aravuus]

Damnit this thread bout to make me buy XIV

The spoiler thread made me resub last week and it's been great

 

[UberTag]

Hovering dangerously close to FF13. The sad thing is, for FF and Tabata, this is probably the high end for what to expect.

It'll probably slip below FFXIII when all is said and done... and all things considered, that's one hell of an amazing accomplishment given the arduous ride this game has taken.
It's also going to sell a metric ton despite an often ostentatious marketing campaign.

It would be difficult to take this launch as anything but an unequivocal success by any measure of performance.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Nonsense. Everyone knows scores for AAA games are around 5 points lower on metacritic this gen. The review sites got tougher and we no longer have 9.5 AAA games every month

They might need to retroactively correct their XIII scores then, cause its reflecting poorly in their barometer as reviewrs and on XV :/

 

[Mcdohl]

The only thing I find it hard to accept is DA:I scoring higher.

But then again, I might be blinded by fandom.

 

[Lingitiz]

So to follow up on what I was saying earlier about modern review scores, here is the Metacritic score for every $60 retail game released in 2016, as based upon their most reviewed platform.

I maintained the sort order from Metacritic, so rankings within the scores are also reflected.

Keep in mind that it's early enough that Final Fantasy XV could still move a point or two in either direction (though given the critics to come, guessing down a point might be the safest).

Uncharted 4: 93
Overwatch: 91
Forza Horizon 3: 91
Dark Souls 3: 89
Titanfall 2: 89
Civilization VI: 89
XCOM 2: 88
Dishonored 2: 88
Battlefield 1: 88
World of Warcraft: Legion: 88
Total War: Warhammer: 86
Final Fantasy XV: 86
Pro Evolution Soccer 2017: 85
Gears of War 4: 85
MLB The Show 16: 85
Doom: 85
FIFA 17: 84
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided: 84
Dragon Quest Builders: 83
Watch Dogs 2: 83
Skylanders Imaginators: 81
The Division: 80
Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm 4: 79
NHL 17: 78
LEGO Star Wars: 78
Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare: 78
World of Final Fantasy: 78
Street Fighter V: 77
Quantum Break: 77
Pokken Tournament: 76
Far Cry Primal: 76
Paper Mario: Color Splash: 76
Attack On Titan: 74
LEGO Marvel: 71
Mirror's Edge: Catalyst: 69
WWE 2K17: 69
Star Fox Zero: 69
Battleborn: 68
Mafia 3: 68
Star Ocean 5: 59
Homefront 2: 48

While an 86 is one of the lowest review scores the mainline franchise has ever seen, I do think it's worth considering the current review scale. This actually leaves it pretty high up the list of games in its category.

This is also why I made my original prediction in the 77-82 range, since that's actually only a bit below average today, and would fit with such a troubled development cycle.

You might also notice that there aren't that many games for this being a nigh exhaustive list, but that's a different topic of discussion.

The scale has shifted a lot in recent years. There are less review outlets and some either don't give review scores or have gotten harsher. FFXV is probably a game that hits 90 in the previous generation. Uncharted and Witcher might have been 95+ games a few years ago but nothing hits that level anymore. There are also a lot of outlets like Quarter to Three that work on different scales and are weighted enough to knock a point down.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

This review is an ode to the FF franchise.

Yeah, wholly orthogonal to his take on XV I really liked reading this. Just straight up love for the series, ups and downs included.

His review oozed and dripped nostalgia. I loved it. You can tell he is a true Final Fantasy fan.

I would go so far as to say that it may be the best review for any game I've ever read.

 

[PensivePen]

This thread has some odd replies...

Some people were really expecting this game to get thrashed in reviews. Which is odd considering how positive a lot of the press impressions were just a few weeks back.

 

[Fou-Lu]

Damnit this thread bout to make me buy XIV

I wonder how long it would take to get through all the story content playing only a couple hours a week? I suppose you'd have to find a free company that accepts someone playing so casually as well. When I played after ARR's release I was kicked out of multiple FCs for not playing often enough.

 

[Boke1879]

They might need to retroactively correct their XIII scores then, cause its reflecting poorly in their barometer as reviewrs and on XV :/

They don't need to retroactively do anything. again that's from a gen that handed out highscores like it was nothing. GTA4 is a prime example of this.

People will look at that 86 meta and say that it's good. Games are reviewing tougher this gen and thank god they are.

 

[brandonh83]

I wonder how long it would take to get through all the story content playing only a couple hours a week? I suppose you'd have to find a free company that accepts someone playing so casually as well. When I played after ARR's release I was kicked out of multiple FCs for not playing often enough.

A long fucking time.

 

[kayos90]

Uh... That Gamespot Video review is spoiler central. The fucking hell.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

The problem, from a sales standpoint, is that there is a large number of people who look at the top 2or 3 games on mc and buy only from that list. It is part of the reason gtav sells perennially. So in that respect, 80s are bad.

For what it's worth I don't know any casual gamer irl who knows what meta critic is

 

[Blimblim]

We are live streaming the game starting in a minute, feel free to join us
http://www.gamersyde.com/livestream_en.html

 

[Riposte]

Damnit this thread bout to make me buy XIV

I don't understand why people aren't as kind to FFXV as they are to FFXIV. Filler quests and imbalanced sexualized female character designs are worse in FFXIV and those are two of the biggest complaints I've heard of FFXV. I won't even touch the subject on combat and how it feels as a player. MMORPGs have a double standard, but people should acknowledge that if they are going to compare them to single player games.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Uh... That Gamespot Video review is spoiler central. The fucking hell.

Yeah I never ever touch GameStop if I'm avoiding spoilers. They don't care. Its frustrating.

 

[thefro]

Pretty good reviews overall, although obviously the game has flaws.

Seems to have turned out better than expected.

 

[Deku Tree]

It is gonna be interesting to see how GAF rates FFXV in a month from now.

 

[Griss]

86 isn't a great score for such a huge game in a legendary series, but more importantly it is a good one.

I predicted 82 and it has easily outperformed that. Squeenix won't be over the moon and there may even be some disappointment but I'd wager the overwhelming feeling will be relief.

They got the game out the door at last, and it doesn't suck. Hallelujah.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

Pretty good reviews overall, although obviously the game has flaws.

Seems to have turned out better than expected.

All games have flaws - it's just a matter of whether they are game-breaking, or if they ruin the overall experience.

 

[aravuus]

I wonder how long it would take to get through all the story content playing only a couple hours a week? I suppose you'd have to find a free company that accepts someone playing so casually as well. When I played after ARR's release I was kicked out of multiple FCs for not playing often enough.

I've been playing for 15-ish hours (/playtime says 22, but I've been idling a lot) and a quick glance at a MSQ list tells me I'm around 20% through the ARR main quest. And I've been mostly ignoring side stuff.

So yeah, quite a while I'd say lol.

It's been very enjoyable, though. The combat isn't particularly engaging most of the time, but it also makes for a very relaxing experience. Can definitely see myself playing through the ARR and Heavensward story stuff solo at the very least.

 

[DOWN]

So what's the down side to playing High mode on Pro? Just frame pacing?

 

[Kazuhira]

Damnit this thread bout to make me buy XIV

yup,me too lol.

 

[UserDoesNotExist]

I recently hit level cap, and just want to throw in that aside from the occasional person leaving for no reason, I've never had a single negative experience in the form of harassment. The FFXIV community is almost frothing at the mouth to help new players.

Of all the modern MMOs, the FF14 community is the best one, hands down. If it weren't for PvP being a complete sidethought, the game would be a permanent subscription for me.

 

[Interfectum]

Of all the modern MMOs, the FF14 community is the best one, hands down. If it weren't for PvP being a complete sidethought, the game would be a permanent subscription for me.

Besides the FF14 community, easily the best thing about that game is the damn music. So good.

 

[F0rneus]

Very good reviews across the board. Wait for midnight got harder.

 

[tiebreaker]

Ok thanks. All I have seen is a review that basically said "hold O to attack, hold Sqaure to dodge". Besides selecting what ability to use, is that really it?

Why is this even a thing. It's like saying FPS games are all hold L2 and press R2.

Playstation Access has a video about the combat. You can check it out.
FF XV combat

 

[BlueWord]

Really glad to see this reviewing well. It's landing basically where I expected.

Reading these reviews, I'm pretty surprised to see so much praise heaped on the gameplay and how it lays an exciting framework for the future of the series. It really does seem, based on reviewer's impressions, that the main problem with this game is that it doesn't feel like the complete expression of the ideas at its core – or, in other words, it doesn't fail so much as inspire a feeling of unfulfilled potential.

It is disappointing to hear so much criticism of the story, though. I was expecting it after all the leaks over the past two weeks, but it still bugs me a little. You really get the sense that the story in its original form would've been something fantastic, whereas what shipped was merely good. Gameplay can be patched, but not really the story.

Hopefully the DLC does a lot to flesh out the story and lore surrounding the game – honestly, I'd really like to see them pull off expansions in the vein of TW3.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I still don't agree that FFXV went through a development hell, at least not on the level that we should have ever assumed would automatically result in a total disaster

Never has a tag been so radically appropriate, my friend. No offense to you, but there's no other way we could label this journey anything more than a trainwreck that ended up stopping at the train station no worse for wear in terms of perception which is a miracle in itself.

 

[jony_m]

This is much better than expected. I was planning on waiting for the inevitable PC version but I may have to get it now.

fuck it

 

[Z3M0G]

I was never gonna NOT buy it, but I feel better about going in.

It's a mainline FF game. It could have gotten 2/10 across the board and I would still buy it.

 

[ANDS]

86 isn't a great score for such a huge game in a legendary series, but more importantly it is a good one.

What, it should have scored 9's and 10's all around? Where are the games that are doing that this generation, or do you think some of the other games would score as such if they had been released now?

 

[Falk]

You can't trust Metacritic because Doom got 85 and not 105

Just sayin

 

[Feep]

About to head to the final dungeon and I strongly feel that these scores are inflated...just like FFXIII's were...but I'm a harsher critic than most, especially concerning narrative.

There are some exceptionally high highs, though, and it's definitely worth playing.

 

[DOWN]

You can't trust Metacritic because Doom got 85 and not 105

Just sayin

FFXV is better than DOOM confirmed

 

[Interfectum]

So to follow up on what I was saying earlier about modern review scores, here is the Metacritic score for every $60 retail game released in 2016, as based upon their most reviewed platform.

I maintained the sort order from Metacritic, so rankings within the scores are also reflected.

Keep in mind that it's early enough that Final Fantasy XV could still move a point or two in either direction (though given the critics to come, guessing down a point might be the safest).

Uncharted 4: 93
Overwatch: 91
Forza Horizon 3: 91
Dark Souls 3: 89
Titanfall 2: 89
Civilization VI: 89
XCOM 2: 88
Dishonored 2: 88
Battlefield 1: 88
World of Warcraft: Legion: 88
Total War: Warhammer: 86
Final Fantasy XV: 86
Pro Evolution Soccer 2017: 85
Gears of War 4: 85
MLB The Show 16: 85
Doom: 85
FIFA 17: 84
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided: 84
Dragon Quest Builders: 83
Watch Dogs 2: 83
Skylanders Imaginators: 81
The Division: 80
Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm 4: 79
NHL 17: 78
LEGO Star Wars: 78
Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare: 78
World of Final Fantasy: 78
Street Fighter V: 77
Quantum Break: 77
Pokken Tournament: 76
Far Cry Primal: 76
Paper Mario: Color Splash: 76
Attack On Titan: 74
LEGO Marvel: 71
Mirror's Edge: Catalyst: 69
WWE 2K17: 69
Star Fox Zero: 69
Battleborn: 68
Mafia 3: 68
Star Ocean 5: 59
Homefront 2: 48

While an 86 is one of the lowest review scores the mainline franchise has ever seen, I do think it's worth considering the current review scale. This actually leaves it pretty high up the list of games in its category.

This is also why I made my original prediction in the 77-82 range, since that's actually only a bit below average today, and would fit with such a troubled development cycle.

Everyone needs to read this. If Uncharted 4 came out last gen reviewers would have scored it an 11/10.

 

[ChaosXVI]

Seems like pretty decent review scores overall, definitely still buying it.

You can't trust Metacritic because Doom got 85 and not 105

Just sayin

I've never agreed with a person as much as I do here.

 

[Velkyn]

that mafia 3 score is sooo wrong ...

to add: ps4 rpg/srpg this gen:

92 bloodborne
92 witcher 3
90 diablo 3
89 dark souls 3
89 dragon age: inquisition
88 divinity: original sin
88 xcom 2
87 fallout 4
86 final fantasy xv...

It's not a GAF review thread until we start hot takes about what the difference between an 86 and an 88 MC _REALLY_ is

 

[Asd202]

Hopefully the DLC does a lot to flesh out the story and lore surrounding the game – honestly, I'd really like to see them pull off expansions in the vein of TW3.

A year from now FFXV Complete Edition now with more fleshed out Story and new scenes!

Spoiler

I would buy it.

 

[SaniOYOYOY]

you thought conan playing this game was bad? you know nothing son

hahahaha gaf gonna hate this with all of its heart

Spoiler

I like pewdiepie

 

[Velkyn]

Seems like pretty decent review scores overall, definitely still buying it.



I've never agreed with a person as much as I do here.

Doom 2016 got an 85 MC?

Metacritic was a mistake

 

[Deku Tree]

Jason's review is the best review. Love it.

Glad Kotaku doesn't give review scores.

 

[Inuhanyou]

instead of trying to 'fix' the story, they should move on after the scheduled DLCs and make other games IMO.

They got passed the realm of critical reception, they dont need to tamper with anything that could make things worse

 

[Loris146]

that mafia 3 score is sooo wrong ...

to add: ps4 rpg/srpg this gen:

92 bloodborne
92 witcher 3
90 diablo 3
89 dark souls 3
89 dragon age: inquisition
88 divinity: original sin
88 xcom 2
87 fallout 4
86 final fantasy xv...

Inquisition 89? Whaat? Is not a bad game either but damn 89 ...

 

[Deckard Chapel]

Jason's review is the best review. Love it.

Glad Kotaku doesn't give review scores.

Those seem like opposing statements lol!

 

[QaaQer]

If I remember right it was because there was shit ton of more games released in 2008 compared to 2016. When you have tons of more games released you have also tons of more crap bringing the average score down. If we compare just AAA budget games scores have definitely come down from early last gen.

Edit. Seems I am badly late with this post

Just to reiterate: he did account for that. It was a proper analysis, not a simple average. However, he did remove it for some reason.

MC only matters insofar as it affects sales to me. As far as personal enjoyment goes, high MCs only tell me that a very specific demo enjoyed the game: a demo consisting of 20-40 y.o. mostly male mostly white dilettantes who play way too many videogames every year. I actually find high MCs a little off-putting, lol.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

instead of trying to 'fix' the story, they should move on after the scheduled DLCs and make other games IMO.

They got passed the realm of critical reception, they dont need to tamper with anything that could make things worse

Yep. Finish DLCs, let Tabata get some rest, move on to something else.

Speaking of DLC, I'm hoping we get some information on the co-op stuff soon. Running around the world with friends would be nice but I think its far more likely that you're just going to be fighitng waves of enemies or something.

 

[patapuf]

Looks like it did better than expected. Good for Square.

If the sales match the score FF is not done yet.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yep. Finish DLCs, let Tabata get some rest, move on to something else.

Speaking of DLC, I'm hoping we get some information on the co-op stuff soon. Running around the world with friends would be nice but I think its far more likely that you're just going to be fighitng waves of enemies or something.

like hoard mode? Sounds hot

 

[Deku Tree]

Those seem like opposing statements lol!

Kotaku gives the following message to all metacritic junkies: