Support NeoGAF

[SOYZUKI]

I switched the Bone back on after a long time to play the Destiny beta and 30fps seemed really slow. I did get used to it fairly quickly though and fortunately the game is fun, but then going back to 60fps on PC was like drinking fresh mountain water straight from the spring.

 

[GalacticGravy]

People don't give a shit about the specs of a game, so long as it's fun.

This sums it up for me.

 

[scytherage]

Honestly 30fps is fine so long as it doesn't go any lower than that.

 

[RocketRacoon]

People don't give a shit about the specs of a game, so long as it's fun.

Yep. Lots of pretty games I don't care about.

 

[HTupolev]

You keep touting the GCN/PS2 era as having mostly 60fps titles, (when it really wasn't more than a dozen)

So you're telling me that my 12-game original Xbox library contains more than half of the 60fps games available on sixth-gen consoles?

 

[RockmanWhore]

I've been playing The Last of Us remastered this week end. The difference between 60fps and 30fps is massive in that game.

People who are fine with 30fps should not be allowed to play games. You guys are fucking cancer. I'm glad there are tons of moaning about 60fps this gen.

 

[Mzo]

Arcade Outrun was 30 FPS and it's like the best game ever.

 

[Lernaean]

I know that this is a joke post, but it's sad when it starts blending in with some serious responses here.

It is a very serious post in my eyes and one i can even get behind.

So you're telling me that my 12-game original Xbox library contains more than half of the 60fps games available on sixth-gen consoles?

I also counted the 60fps games of my entire library from back then and either he wasn't playing games at all during that gen or he posts from a parallel universe. I hope it's the later.

 

[keuja]

And that is exactly why framerate is king.



To be so dead wrong in so few words is quite a feat in and on itself, congrats!

Speak for yourself. Some zealots on GAF keep on repeating this shit like it is some kind of absolute undeniable truth. Sorry gameplay does not equal FPS alone.

Fun and enjoyment of the game is king, which is perfectly possible and acceptable at 30 fps, like it or not.

 

[EVOL 100%]

It's strange to see people mentioning not caring about 60fps because they don't care about graphics. Because better graphics are pretty much the only reason why devs compromise to 30fps

 

[SHL23]

Try playing fighting games or arena fps @ 30 fps. Complete trash. 30fps works for slow paced games and by work I mean acceptable. 60fps should be the standard. Hell im playing most my pc games at 144fps and I never wanna play anything less then 60 again

 

[EventHorizon]

It's strange to see people mentioning not caring about 60fps because they don't care about graphics. Because better graphics are pretty much the only reason why devs compromise to 30fps

Not the only reason. Larger viewable/playable area, more time for AI, more physics calculations. Reducing the FPS gives you access to more resources per frame that can be put to any number of uses.

 

[Theognosis]

I've been playing The Last of Us remastered this week end. The difference between 60fps and 30fps is massive in that game.

People who are fine with 30fps should not be allowed to play games. You guys are fucking cancer. I'm glad there are tons of moaning about 60fps this gen.

Just like Mario Kart 8. The difference between 1/2 player 60 fps mode vs 3/4 player 30 fps mode is night and day. Same applies to 60 fps SSART on PC vs 30 fps SSART on consoles.

Those who are okay with 30 fps in their games should never be allowed to play 60 fps versions of the same game because... ignorance is bliss.

I'm really happy for them.

 

[SHL23]

Not the only reason. Larger viewable/playable area, more time for AI, more physics calculations. Reducing the FPS gives you access to more resources per frame that can be put to any number of uses.

Ai sucks in most games. Higher fov is good. Physics is lame. Omg that rock fell down in a realistic way. Id take 60 fps over any of those.

 

[Lernaean]

Ai sucks in most games. Higher fov is good. Physics is lame. Omg that rock fell down in a realistic way. Id take 60 fps over any of those.

And anyway, most of the time rocks don't fall down in a realistic way but rather like rubber balls. Not to mention the cloth dummy physics that emulate the dead bodies on the ground.

 

[Theognosis]

Not the only reason. Larger viewable/playable area, more time for AI, more physics calculations. Reducing the FPS gives you access to more resources per frame that can be put to any number of uses.

Nope. Anything can be achieved in 60 fps with the same graphical fidelity through direct manipulation of hardware. The developers' reliance on middleware is the culprit here. They are lazy and some consumers are led to believe that 30 fps is adequate.

Stop supporting 30 fps dog shit. Accept no compromises.

 

[EventHorizon]

Nope. Anything can be achieved in 60 fps with the same graphical fidelity through direct manipulation of hardware. The developers' reliance on middleware is the culprit here. They are lazy and some consumers are led to believe that 30 fps is adequate.

Stop supporting 30 fps dog shit. Accept no compromises.

That literally makes no sense. At 30 FPS each frame can take up to 33 milliseconds to produce. At 60 FPS each frame only gets 17 milliseconds. What you are saying is the equivalent of me saying to you that you should be able to run just as far in 17 seconds as you can in 33, and that you are being lazy if you can't.

 

[saunderez]

What you are saying is the equivalent of me saying to you that you should be able to run just as far in 17 seconds as you can in 33, and that you are being lazy if you can't.

You totally can though! Through direct manipulation of your legs. Just move them twice as fast, physical limitations don't exist.

 

[KemoSabe]

Everything below 60fps is not nextgen...
Let sub 60fps die already.

 

[Tain]

Arcade Outrun was 30 FPS and it's like the best game ever.

No Mzo it's literally unplayable compromised trash and the developers clearly could have made it run at 60 if they were smarter.

Being real: 60fps Outrun was eventually made so that's probably the best way to play it (assuming you can still get a rad display and wheel and all that), but yeah skipping great games that exist in only 30fps form is incredibly sus.

 

[Zakalwe]

You know, i feel the this 60 FPS started when some people saw that the PS4 was going to be successful and wants to devalue the specs of it. Noticed it doesn't seem to be a problem for the XBox 1. People just keep sliding that goal post further back with statements like "900p is enough" and " it doing alot technically so no wonder". Me personally, let the dev choose their design. If they want 60, go for it. If they want better graphics, great.

60fps = better graphics.

30fps = half the frames to see visuals on motion, so you lose clarity and the ability to see detail while in motion. This makes any gains made by the sacrifice to frame rate less noticeable while in motion, especially if the game is using motion blur to smooth out the lower frame rate.

60fps improves visuals and gameplay.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

60fps looks weird to me. While I can adjust to it over time, the "smoothness" looks so fake and unnatural.

Real life doesn't have any frame rate. When something moves too fast, it results in motion blurring. Video games are still pretty bad at simulating this.

I'm hoping technology like this becomes viable in the future. Because it looks more real to me than any 60fps game.

Do you think that your eyes just magically work differently when viewing a display versus real life?

 

[Thrakier]

I was born in 84.

As long as the framerate is steady, I'm fine.

Steady 24fps is infinitely better than 60fps with dips.

My. God.

 

[Duallusion]

People who are fine with 30fps should not be allowed to play games. You guys are fucking cancer.

Wow. We are no less then cancer.

 

[Ombala]

Born in 78 Dont really care about 30/60 if the game is fun I enjoy it anyway. More concerned about things like screentearing wich I find really annoying.

 

[supernormal]

I was born in 88. Been playing since the SNES, and also played a lot of arcade games very often from 97-2001 (Tekken, House of the Dead, Time Crisis and stuff like that).

To me constant fps in a videogame is something you automatically adapt within the first few minutes of picking it up. It's a characteristic of the game at hand as much as the controls and the commands, and as such every element of the game should be designed with these things in mind. For me it's up to the developer to decide what's right for the experience they want to deliver, and then I can decide on wether I agree with result as a whole.

I hate to generalize, but these types of absolutes regarding "certain fps of die" often feel like restrictions more than what they're trying to improve. If some one wants to make a 60fps game they will. Saying it's better for everything is like saying Mario should have a dodge maneuver because modern platformers or whatever, or saying that Joel's gun shouldn't sway when he aims, or comparing Killzone 2's movement to CoD's when they have completely different reasons for being the way the are.

TLoU 30/60fps switch ability allows people to see the immediate differences between each. The thing is that most people switch, move forward and then switch back without letting your brain adjust to the change you made. I have 2 simoultaneous runs in this game one at 30 and one at 60. Honestly after less than a minute the novelty of 60fps is not present anymore, and you're just playing a slow paced stealth game designed for 30fps, that is not taking advantage of "being more responsive" because it wasn't designed for it in the first place.

 

[Remark]

lel didn't read

I don't care about 60fps bruh. I've been gaming since 93' and I didn't care back then either. People who say 60fps is the end all be all get on my nerves to the highest degree.

 

[SkeptiMism]

Personally, I can't wait for the day (if it ever comes - probably not) when 120 fps is standard. I recently got a 120hz screen and it's just awesome. I'm actually not very sensitive seeing fps and I'll play a 30 fps game just fine, but the higher it is the better it just feels. 30 fps just doesn't feel as good as 60 or 120 fps does.

Anyway, some really stupid posts here (no offense to anyone, I'm not calling you stupid but your posts).

1993, I don't think the average NeoGAF armchair developer (and their are oh so many) realise just little of a shit the general populace gives about frame rate. Or resolution for that matter.

General populace does care about frame rate and also resolution. They might not consciously realize it, but for vast majority of people 60 fps just feels better. I'd argue that's one of the reasons Call of Duty is popular for example. It feels smooth.
There's no need for armchair developers to claim that, but real developers say that.

Don't care about FPS at all. The majority of gamers do not care. The majority want better graphics. You're on a gaming forum, you're vastly not the majority here so idk why you think devs will cater to you when graphics>fps in terms of marketing. And I could care less about 60v30fps they both play great to me and will choose 30 with better graphics every time.

Same as above.

We've had this thread about a thousand times now and it's getting old. No it isn't. You think most people that play GTA, for example, enjoy it less because it's 30fps or less? Perfectly explains the bad sales, huh? If it's playable most people don't give a fuck. OCD gamers are a different story.

That's factually not true. It's not an opinion, but it's a fact. 60 fps is better than 30 fps. More frames and less response time.

This obviously doesn't mean that people can't enjoy a game that has low fps.

Also, it's not fair to call people who are sensitive to fps "OCD gamers". People tend to be different and sensitive to various things.

End thread/

The vast majority don't give a single damn about 60 FPS or 1080p. They just want to play great games regardless of the silly console war topics that rages on nowadays.


There is a lot of hyperbolic bullshit I read on neogaf every single day " 30 FPS is unplayable" " 1080p or I am not buying" " those jaggies hurt my eyes".....etc, its not even funny anymore. Just stop! Stoooooooop! Want 60 FPS? Go build/buy a gaming PC and spare us the whining in every god damn thread.

First of all, same goes to you as what I replied to the first quote I used.

Second, '"those jaggies hurt my eyes'" for example, is completely acceptable thing to say. Just because you aren't sensitive to jaggies, doesn't mean everyone else isn't. There are people who can see them easily and some games really have a lot of them. For some people it can really feel not nice for their eyes.

I've been playing The Last of Us remastered this week end. The difference between 60fps and 30fps is massive in that game.

People who are fine with 30fps should not be allowed to play games. You guys are fucking cancer. I'm glad there are tons of moaning about 60fps this gen.

Now, that's equally, or even more, stupid thing to say than what some of the people here say about not caring at all about frame rate.

 

[Altima]

Every games can have 60 fps but those developers out there choose not to do it.

 

[brickarts295]

95 here.I couldn't even tell you if I was playing a 30fps or 60fps game. So in other words I don't give 2 shits about it.

 

[Freshmaker]

You yourself concede that consoles were never the go-to place for consistent 60-fps 3D gaming. It was never that common and even then you only cite the PS2 generation as an example of having "moved forward" when even then the 30fps titles outnumbered the 60-fps ones easily. Where did this made up standard come from for you?

Clearly it stemmed from arcade racing games.

 

[-COOLIO-]

it's not a big deal. if it was, the industry would have a 60fps standard. it's a nice to have.

 

[keuja]

I've been playing The Last of Us remastered this week end. The difference between 60fps and 30fps is massive in that game.

People who are fine with 30fps should not be allowed to play games.You guys are fucking cancer. I'm glad there are tons of moaning about 60fps this gen.

Banning other people because they are fine playing games in a way you don't like lol.
Some people take their 60 fps way too seriously.

 

[Dilly]

Nope. Anything can be achieved in 60 fps with the same graphical fidelity through direct manipulation of hardware. The developers' reliance on middleware is the culprit here. They are lazy and some consumers are led to believe that 30 fps is adequate.

Stop supporting 30 fps dog shit. Accept no compromises.

What nonsense.

 

[boltz]

The question here isn't about 30fps being playable.

Its about standards and expectations. Its about the industry going forward as the technology gets better. Today we have machines that offer a much bigger room for graphics/effects/smooth frame rates. I find it unacceptable that 60fps was much more common thing on inferior 2001 hardware than it is now. Obviously the standards have dropped. Its a step back.

Isn't it?

And yet there are still awesome games being released, bought, and enjoyed. So this "step back" you mention doesn't matter to most people. There's other considerations more important in enjoying a game.

 

[Guess Who]

Nope. Anything can be achieved in 60 fps with the same graphical fidelity through direct manipulation of hardware. The developers' reliance on middleware is the culprit here. They are lazy and some consumers are led to believe that 30 fps is adequate.

I have no words.

 

[jpax]

it's not a big deal. if it was, the industry would have a 60fps standard. it's a nice to have.

Yeah because the industry always does what's right! Excessive dlc, preorder locked content and game changing micro transactions are good!

 

[Chastten]

Born in the 80's so I was around when arcades were still a thing, but honestly, I have no idea how much FPS a game is, as long as it runs smooth at or over 30 FPS.

I notice when it's pretty low (Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2 on Xbox 360 are examples) or when there are drops (Raids in WoW, GoldenEye on N64 when using mines) but otherwise no idea. I have no idea when something runs in 30, 40 or 60 FPS.

 

[Nanashrew]

60fps = better graphics.

30fps = half the frames to see visuals on motion, so you lose clarity and the ability to see detail while in motion. This makes any gains made by the sacrifice to frame rate less noticeable while in motion, especially if the game is using motion blur to smooth out the lower frame rate.

60fps improves visuals and gameplay.

Sonic Generations is a good comparison to use. The PC version plays much better than the console version since it runs at 60fps and you can actually see things coming at you and react much quicker. It's smooth and far more enjoyable.

And I agree with John Carmack in saying that "a Sonic game not locked at 60fps is a crime against nature"

Visuals in motion is important since he's all about speed and reaction timing in a winding road filled with obstacles.

 

[SmokyDave]

I was born in 1980, recognise that 60FPS is superior, but still don't really give a shit.

You can't force people to care about frame rates. Some of us just don't.

 

[Peltz]

Sega perfected 60 fps in the arcades in the 90's and the rest of the industry had to follow; otherwise, their game would look like crap when placed next to a Sega arcade machine. I remember seeing Nintendo's Cruis'n USA next to Daytona USA and the former looked horrible so nobody was playing it. And then the arcades died. Now it's all about comparing screenshots. It's sad.

My theory is that the rise in popularity of slow cinematic games where gameplay was relegated to the minor leagues coupled with the demise of arcades made 60 fps unimportant. The millions of casuals who loved movies and spent zero coins on arcade machines have embraced story-driven video games at the tail-end of PS2 era; it's just natural for game developers to cater to this demographic and make games as slow as possible.

In short, 30 fps movie gaming is where the money is. The more movies you have in your game, the more hipsters you attract.

Hopefully, Youtube in 60 fps will bring back the glory days,

To be fair, COD is more popular to the masses than any other franchise and it runs at 60.

 

[gelf]

Sonic Generations is a good comparison to use. The PC version plays much better than the console version since it runs at 60fps and you can actually see things coming at you and react much quicker. It's smooth and far more enjoyable.

And I agree with John Carmack in saying that "a Sonic game not locked at 60fps is a crime against nature"

Visuals in motion is important since he's all about speed and reaction timing in a winding road filled with obstacles.

That one of the few games I can think of were it definitely needed to be upped to 60fps. The PS3 demo hurt my eyes but it was fine on PC. On the other hand I've played Sonic Racing Transformed in both 30fps on PS3 and 60 on PC and was fine with either.

 

[ufo8mycat]

Firstly everyone has different sensitivity levels when it comes to framerate. There are obviously the unfortunate group that are sensitive to anything below 60fps.

For me, it makes no difference what so ever.

The only time it impacts my enjoyment or where there is actually a big noticable difference, is if I play a 60fps game for like an hour and then IMMEDIATELY jump to a 30fps game - the difference there can be quite jarring and 30fps looks very jerky and makes me dizzy.

But this amazing thing happens, by eyes/brain adjusts and that jerkiness I once saw disappears and the game goes from that to being pretty damn smooth, the only thing that remains is that slight blur you get when you pan the camera left-right,

I then switch to 60fps again, and I get the nice glide when you pan the camera, instead of that slight blur - to be honest not a big deal at all.

Once my eyes adjust - 30fps is absolutely fine and it has no impact what so ever on my performance in a game, be it racing, fps or anything.

IMO 60fps is extremely overrated

Sadly there are the unfortunate group who are sensitive regardless, but thankfully there is the 60fps option for you.

 

[adin75]

I wouldn't say I don't care about 60fps, but I wouldn't avoid a game I was interested in playing because it was only 30.

I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Oh look another 60FPS MATTERS YOU MUST CONFORM TO MY WAY OF THINKING post.

I don't give a shit if a game runs 30 or 60fps, I had more fun playing GTA5 and Last of Us at sub 30fps than I have with most games that run a perfect 1080p60+ on my PC. If games run at 60fps then great, if they don't then that's OK too.

Stop trying to convince me that 60fps matters, if it does to you then good for you, you don't need to keep telling people about it.

I was born in the 80's btw.

I've been playing The Last of Us remastered this week end. The difference between 60fps and 30fps is massive in that game.

People who are fine with 30fps should not be allowed to play games. You guys are fucking cancer. I'm glad there are tons of moaning about 60fps this gen.

I'd rather be cancer than an elitist moron.

 

[_hekk05]

Born 91. I only have a laptop so most games are at 30fps. I suck it up.

I can notice the difference though.

 

[Morphine_OD]

I didn't care back then, nor do I care now. FPS is probably the last thing I notice in a game. It's pretty unobtrusive, a lot of times you just don't have anything to compare to, hence a lot of people are oblivious to fps difference in games. I know I am.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I've been playing The Last of Us remastered this week end. The difference between 60fps and 30fps is massive in that game.

People who are fine with 30fps should not be allowed to play games. You guys are fucking cancer. I'm glad there are tons of moaning about 60fps this gen.

And this, ladies and gentleman, is the bullshit that I was talking about a few pages ago. People that take specs before everything else, and are incredibly hostile about it. God forbid people enjoy video games at whatever framerate they were designed at. We are now a terminal ailment on the gaming industry.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

And this, ladies and gentleman, is the bullshit that I was talking about a few pages ago. People that take specs before everything else, and are incredibly hostile about it. God forbid people enjoy video games at whatever framerate they were designed at. We are now a terminal ailment on the gaming industry.

Militant FPSists.

Expecting consoles that essentially have mobile CPUs and low to mid range GPUs to run 1080p60 and still look "next-gen".

Just look at Forza with its cardboard crowds, simplified track geometry, baked lighting and jaggies sharp enough to cut your fingers on what it had to sacrifice to reach 1080p60.

These are the kind of idiots who would be moaning if a game was 1080p60 and looked like complete crap.

 

[erpg]

I was born in 1980, recognise that 60FPS is superior, but still don't really give a shit.

You can't force people to care about frame rates. Some of us just don't.

And I'm the very same.

I'll notice it from time to time, but if I were to list off my top games, I'm sure more than half were running at 30FPS (or less).

A good game is a good game and the last thing I'll reminisce about is its frame rate.