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Football Thread 2016/17 & Offseason |OT2| Wenger In Fam! Wenger Out Blud!

M

McMoneyman

Member
CrayToes said:
Agreed. Adam is without a doubt above them in the pecking order though so it's a shame to have to settle for 2nd best before the season even starts. And I don't buy in to all that panic buy bullshit.
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I mean I think we should've bought a CM before Lallana got injured. Like even Henderson have looked really good, which makes me really happy. He's been so unlucky the last 2 years.
 
C

CrayToes

Member
McMoneyman said:
I mean I think we should've bought a CM before Lallana got injured. Like even Henderson have looked really good, which makes me really happy. He's been so unlucky the last 2 years.
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Yeah, unless Klopp already had a CM lined up there's no point in rushing to find one. Hendo is guaranteed to miss games, he's just as bad as Sturridge recently.
 
D

DBT85

Member
Full list of the 13 people who will decide who dived and who didn't in the PL.

Former players/managers:

Nigel Adkins - former Southampton and Reading boss
Rachel Brown-Finnis - former England goalkeeper and BBC Radio 5 live pundit
Terry Butcher - former England and Ipswich defender
Lee Dixon - former Arsenal and England full-back
Alex McLeish - former Aberdeen defender and ex-Scotland manager
Danny Murphy - former Liverpool and England midfielder
Chris Powell - former Charlton and Huddersfield boss
Trevor Sinclair - former West Ham United and England winger

Former match officials:
Keren Barratt
Steve Dunn
Mike Mullarkey
Alan Wiley
Eddie Wolstenhome

TeddyBoy said:
I know you guys like to talk shit about Liverpool and downplay us, but last season outside of January and February (when we had relegation form), we had title winning form.

I mean, this season will be hard no doubt, but predicting Liverpool finishing seventh seems more than a little harsh.
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If you try and fight in the CL you really don't have the depth in the squad to cope, we saw that during January and you only had the PL to worry about. As soon as the fixture list eased up you came back ok. This season you'll probably get to the groups and then have another 6 games to play, already 8 more than last year before you even get to Christmas when the real pileup occurs. Your best shot in the league is to get knocked out by Hoffenheim.

Last time they had European football (15/16) they finished 8th and lost the Europa final, the year before that (14/15)you finished 6th after going out in the Europa 32s to Besiktas, the time before that (12/13) you came 7th after going out of the Europa in the 32s to Zenit, the time before that (10/11) you came 6th after going out in the 16s to Braga, in 09/10 you came 7th after going out in the Europa SF to Athletico.

The last time Pool played Europe and did anything of note in the league at the same time was 2008/2009 when you came 2nd in the PL (only conceding 27 I might add, something you've not come close to replicating since) and went out of the CL in the Quarters to Chelsea.

Predicting Liverpool to finish 7th this season now that they have European football seems almost exactly par for the course considering you may well not get VVD to shore up the back line and won't get Keita either.

Sorry =/

For your sake I hope Barca don't come along with a £120m offer for Couts, as I don't think they'd reject it.
 
W

WhateverItTakes

Banned
DBT85 said:
For your sake I hope Barca don't come along with a £120m offer for Couts, as I don't think they'd reject it.
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I dunno man, we were willing to drop £70+ mil on Keita, plus the possible Van Dijk money, I feel like money ain't our desire right now. The contract
and Phil's lovable, docile nature
puts us in power.Then again we're still holding out on selling Sakho and Moreno, though I feel we're just trying to get a tough-guy selling image going on.
 
I

immortal-joe

Member
Frustrated_me said:
I'll never forget this final game for us during the CL final, he was a monster on the field and was voted MVP.
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Too many people forget how godly he was in that game. How about his incredible cross to Ronaldo for the Copa win? Destined to go down as one of the most underrated players in the club's history.
 
T

TeddyBoy

Member
DBT85 said:
.
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This was actually a much better response than I thought I'd receive.

I won't disagree with any of your facts, as they are totally spot on. However I can say that in all examples you gave, the reasons we did badly are far more specific than just saying fixture congestion. We did indeed finish 8th in 15/16 but that was after literally playing our entire second team the last three/four matches and getting tonked in all four of them (we'd have probably finished fifth had we tried).

The round of 32 against Besiktas was late February, our season was going to shit way before that. With Zenit that was also under Rodgers who was trying to salvage his league season after his disastrous opening half to his league campaign.

Braga and Atletico are now so long ago I don't think they're even representative of Liverpool.

I'm not disagreeing with you DBT, having a strong European run will hurt our domestic competitions. I just don't see how getting to the last 16 will suddenly condemn Liverpool to seventh place. Yes other teams have strengthened, but so have we, I think Spurs' lack of action in the transfer market and City's bizarre transfer haven't aided them.

I completely disagree with going out against Hoffenheim, in terms of finances and Liverpool's European coefficient, going out at the group stage is acceptable if disheartening.

Coutinho isn't Suarez and is replaceable, if we did get a €120m offer for him I wouldn't be against accepting.
 
G

GoldenCrow

Member
TeddyBoy said:
I know you guys like to talk shit about Liverpool and downplay us, but last season outside of January and February (when we had relegation form), we had title winning form.
Click to expand...

Thats because Liverpool across a season aren't good, nor is the first team squad even close to what Chelsea, Tottenham, City have, never mind subs. Their form can not just be erratic from game to game but can be erratic within the game. They can beat any team when on form and can be consistent for 90 mins but they aren't a squad built to do that twice a week, certainly not with the high tempo they play and we all know Liverpool wont do a Tottenham and take cup matches at a lower pace.

When I see Liverpool stop busting a nut against those who are expected to finish in the top four only to run themselves into the ground for the next game and know when to pick their fights I will give them credit. A team can lose against the top four and win the Prem with the highest points in its history if you beat the rest. Most of the top four candidate teams seem to get that, Liverpool don't.
 
D

DBT85

Member
TeddyBoy said:
This was actually a much better response than I thought I'd receive.

I won't disagree with any of your facts, as they are totally spot on. However I can say that in all examples you gave, the reasons we did badly are far more specific than just saying fixture congestion. We did indeed finish 8th in 15/16 but that was after literally playing our entire second team the last three/four matches and getting tonked in all four of them (we'd have probably finished fifth had we tried).

The round of 32 against Besiktas was late February, our season was going to shit way before that. With Zenit that was also under Rodgers who was trying to salvage his league season after his disastrous opening half to his league campaign.

Braga and Atletico are now so long ago I don't think they're even representative of Liverpool.

I'm not disagreeing with you DBT, having a strong European run will hurt our domestic competitions. I just don't see how getting to the last 16 will suddenly condemn Liverpool to seventh place. Yes other teams have strengthened, but so have we, I think Spurs' lack of action in the transfer market and City's bizarre transfer haven't aided them.

I completely disagree with going out against Hoffenheim, in terms of finances and Liverpool's European coefficient, going out at the group stage is acceptable if disheartening.

Coutinho isn't Suarez and is replaceable, if we did get a €120m offer for him I wouldn't be against accepting.
Click to expand...

Oh its definitely not only about congestion and squad depth but those do play a huge part. Last year you looked great, but often had one game a week because as I recall you also dropped out of the FA cup and League cup in January, leaving you Feb, March, April and May to get your act together.

As Crow also said, beating the top 4 is utterly useless if you then can't beat Plymouth Argyll in one game rather than two, draw at Sunderland etc.

As I said in my original post, the last time you had a defence worthy of winning anything was 2008/09, if Kloppo can make you tight at the back you've got the forwards to do really well.

Nobody wins the league if the conceded more than a goal a game unless the rest of the league are shit that year, IE, 12/13 when United conceded 43 but still won by 11 points. League winners for the last 5 years have conceded 33, 36, 32, 37, 43. In the same years Liverpool shipped 42, 50, 48, 50, 43.

Genuinely and honestly, if Liverpool make it into the group stages of the CL past Hoffenheim, I think you'll probably finish 6th with the squads where they are because Klopp won't jut put the kids out in the CL.

To my mind, getting regular CL for 2 or 3 years running and dumping out early would do more for you as a team than getting in this year and missing out next.

Who knows, Newcastle could storm the league and have a couple of 4-3 thrillers lol.

Also, congestion isn't just about squad rotation, its about not having as much time to train and prepare for every opponent like you and chelsea could last year.
 
T

TeddyBoy

Member
GoldenCrow said:
Thats because Liverpool across a season aren't good, nor is the first team squad even close to what Chelsea, Tottenham, City have, never mind subs. Their form can not just be erratic from game to game but can be erratic within the game. They can beat any team when on form and can be consistent for 90 mins but they aren't a squad built to do that twice a week, certainly not with the high tempo they play and we all know Liverpool wont do a Tottenham and take cup matches at a lower pace.

When I see Liverpool stop busting a nut against those who are expected to finish in the top four only to run themselves into the ground for the next game and know when to pick their fights I will give them credit. A team can lose against the top four and win the Prem with the highest points in its history if you beat the rest. Most of the top four candidate teams seem to get that, Liverpool don't.
Click to expand...

Our league form has been very inconsistent the last ten years, that's what coming 7th/8th represents.

I don't mean to disrespect, but bar defence, our first team is very much comparable to any team in the Premier League. Defensively we are poor/average but bar Augero, Lukaku, Kane and Sanchez (literally our rivals best players), I'm very satisfied with our current team.

Yes our second string side is pretty shite, but bar Man City who literally have an entire second eleven, we have squad in size comparable to at least Spurs and Chelsea (Chelsea's team who is wafer thin, who get by as they never seem to get injuries).

@DBT85: I broadly agree with what you said and I do agree that if Liverpool do want to move forward we really should strengthen our defence rather than our forward line. However I personally prefer the stat that the team who scores the most goals also wins the league (this hasn't actually been the case the last couple of years but is broadly correct).
 
T

T-Rex.

Banned
TeddyBoy said:
Our league form has been very inconsistent the last ten years, that's what coming 7th/8th represents.

I don't mean to disrespect, but bar defence, our first team is very much comparable to any team in the Premier League. Defensively we are poor/average but bar Augero, Lukaku, Kane and Sanchez (literally our rivals best players), I'm very satisfied with our current team.
Click to expand...
If we're talking about our starting XI, we're actually not that bad defensively. In fact considering the open football we play our record's pretty damn good. It's just that there's a massive drop off in quality when one of our CBs is out and it unfortunately happened too often last season.

I think we conceded .8 goals per game (or around that) when Matip and Lovren both started last season.
 
D

DBT85

Member
TeddyBoy said:
@DBT85: I broadly agree with what you said and I do agree that if Liverpool do want to move forward we really should strengthen our defence rather than our forward line. However I personally prefer the stat that the team who scores the most goals also wins the league (this hasn't actually been the case the last couple of years but is broadly correct).
Click to expand...

Broadly yes though as you say, the last 3 years it's not been true, and actually only true 60% of the time in the last 10 years. In 08/09 when you only conceded 27 you also scored the most goals, had the best GD as well, still beat you by 4 :p
 
M

McMoneyman

Member
DBT85 said:
Broadly yes though as you say, the last 3 years it's not been true, and actually only true 60% of the time in the last 10 years. In 08/09 when you only conceded 27 you also scored the most goals, had the best GD as well, still beat you by 4 :p
Click to expand...

Only lost 2 games that season. Drew too many games.
 
D

DBT85

Member
McMoneyman said:
Only lost 2 games that season. Drew too many games.
Click to expand...

Only 11. United can do better, 15 last year with the second best defence. lol.

Fuck, just looking at the table and Bournemouth scored 1 more goal than we did. I mean fine, they conceded 38 more but still.
 
T

TeddyBoy

Member
T-Rex. said:
If we're talking about our starting XI, we're actually not that bad defensively. In fact considering the open football we play our record's pretty damn good. It's just that there's a massive drop off in quality when one of our CBs is out and it unfortunately happened too often last season.

I think we conceded .8 goals per game (or around that) when Matip and Lovren both started last season.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping that Robertson is a decent upgrade on Milner, he really started to show his limitations towards the end of last season.

DBT85 said:
Broadly yes though as you say, the last 3 years it's not been true, and actually only true 60% of the time in the last 10 years. In 08/09 when you only conceded 27 you also scored the most goals, had the best GD as well, still beat you by 4 :p
Click to expand...

Hmm, clearly Liverpool are the stat breakers :p
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Lashley said:
Sunderland will be in League One within three years.

Save this post.
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yeah probably. They don't seem to have sorted anything out and will continue to slide like most clubs who can't adjust. The Championship is better than most people realise.
 
P

Pachimari

Member
immortal-joe said:
Too many people forget how godly he was in that game. How about his incredible cross to Ronaldo for the Copa win? Destined to go down as one of the most underrated players in the club's history.
Click to expand...
Di Maria will never be forgotten. One of the best in recent time. What a monster.
 
C

Cindres

Vied for a tag related to cocks, so here it is.
Lashley said:
Sunderland will be in League One within three years.

Save this post.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking all summer about popping a tenner on them to go straight down again this season.


sammex said:
It was close but I believe Wagner is the real deal. If you had Danny Ward back on loan I'd be even more confident. Then Hughton has a mixed record in the prem, and I don't rate De Boer plus they haven't bought Sakho who saved them last year. Swansea could be in there too but if they invest the Sigurdsson cash I think they'll be safe.
Click to expand...

Aye the new keeper is TBD at the moment, from pre season he doesn't seem as good as Ward but pre season's hard to gauge. May yet settle in.
 
G

GoldenCrow

Member
TeddyBoy said:
Our league form has been very inconsistent the last ten years, that's what coming 7th/8th represents.

I don't mean to disrespect, but bar defence, our first team is very much comparable to any team in the Premier League. Defensively we are poor/average but bar Augero, Lukaku, Kane and Sanchez (literally our rivals best players), I'm very satisfied with our current team.

Yes our second string side is pretty shite, but bar Man City who literally have an entire second eleven, we have squad in size comparable to at least Spurs and Chelsea (Chelsea's team who is wafer thin, who get by as they never seem to get injuries).
Click to expand...

I wouldn't even say that Aguero or Kane are the best players in their teams but when I look at the squads from Chelsea, Tottenham and City from the keeper to the strikers they look like players that fit specific roles or play styles that are suited to them. There also happens to be a lot of very good players, some among the best in the world for their positions.

Liverpool without a doubt are an unbalanced squad for the type of football that Klopp wants to play. Klopp never had the best at Dortmund, those that were quality usually got lured to Bayern but the players he did have played very specific roles and understood it. The players were also very tactically talented, watching them off the ball and how they understood the space was great. Liverpool on the other hand look great on the ball but unorganised off it. If they could get that fixed it would also mean they don't have to play with such a high tempo either helping reduce that issue.
 
A

ambar_hitman

Member
Only team he will go for is United. Chelsea might try but I don't think he will prefer us.

He said this in court, so not sure how serious this is. Chelsea can surely meet his demands.
 
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