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[kyubajin]

I used to buy way more games in past generations. This whole 80€ price has me waiting for games to be 30-40€ before I even consider them, and that takes a long time. Some notable exceptions like Ubisoft games which are 50-70% off after a few months.

 

[Hudo]

I used to buy way more games in past generations. This whole 80€ price has me waiting for games to be 30-40€ before I even consider them, and that takes a long time. Some notable exceptions like Ubisoft games which are 50-70% off after a few months.

This is the case for me as well. The increase of the main price point + additional costs (DLC, mictotransactions, etc.) have made me a picky motherfucker.

 

[bitbydeath]

Are you seriously suggesting one individual‘s buying habits is more important to consider than hard sales date and general business/economic sense?

Lowering the price by a major percentage will require a major amount of buyers to make up for that profit loss. A few people enthusiastically raising their hands in a forum going, “ooh, ooh, I’d buy it, me me!” means jack and shit to the actual millions of buyers that are needed.

It’s common sense that a lower price means more people will buy games, which will lead to a massive profit increase, if you can’t see it then there’s not much more I can say.

 

[bitbydeath]

But this would also lower the view of the quality of the IP. There is already a stigma among the general populace that games sold for less than full price are shorter, less involved titles or indie/A/AA jankfests. Numerous folks have stated so on this forum alone in recent months.

I was with you until this part, I doubt this is a thing, everyone typically praises when a price is lower, not scrutinises it.

Helldivers 2 being a recent example.

 

[bitbydeath]

They would lose money on 1st day sales,videogames already get devalued too quickly.there is no point in lowering the price if its gonna cost $20 in a year(and lower)

More sales = more money.

 

[Bernardougf]

Maybe... just maybe... FF has sucked for quite some time, FFXV was dog shit... FFXVI is not what people were expecting .. ans FF7 remake/rebirth are marginally better titles but again not that great..

You know.. sometimes is you who sucks.. not the market.

FF7 - FFX awesomeness
FFXII - meh didnt finish
FFXIII - hell no im out.. didnt played
FFXV - worst AAA game of ps4 by far
FFXVI - sorry action DMC like is not FF
FF7 remake - is not a remake is a cobtinuation with a 03 part ludicrous boring story with a identity crises in gameplay 6/10 at most .. played for free
FF7 Rebirth - more of the same Remake shit so Im out good luck.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Just look at how Sony is trying to make their stock look good.

Every public company is trying to make their stock look good, the management is almost always compensated in part with stock performance.

 

[chromatic9]

One problem is part of the fanbase is too old now and they left it too late to capitalize on that FF6/FF7 crowd. The 12 - 25 year olds that adored FF7 are 40-53 years now. I've not bought FF7 remake or rebirth despite FF7 being my favourite game, don't want piece meal game taking 10 years to release on separate systems, it should've been releasing in its entirety on PS4 earlier, that would've sold many more millions and hyped to hell and back. Ever since moving to HD it's been trailer hype and them taking too long to release anything.

They should really go big on Switch 2 and recapture the Japanese market and look at younger gens and turning out games quicker.

 

[JimmyRustler]

All this Fortnite craze.... I don't get it. I never even played this game. Mincecraft just a couple of time. How can people play that stuff years on end? I used to play CS for a year or two and by the end of it was so done with it, I can't find any joy in MP games today. How can people be ok with that? Not looking forward and asking for something new?

 

[Spyxos]

I really want to see one of the big AAA studios do some experiment runs: form small 10-20 person teams, give them AA budget and go make ~8-10hrs $40 games in a 2.5 year dev cycle. Sacrifice production quality enough to achieve that goal, if it has to look like a really polished PS2 game, go for it. Like form a bunch of indie teams between the company. I want to see what kind of game would come out in these conditions from teams like Naughty Dog or Santa Monica Studio.
Then Sony can go and market them, give them a cool tag line or something, "Playstation Sweeties". Then we can fight over who makes the best Sweeties.

Wasn't that exactly what Square did recently. And completely fell flat on its face?

 

[Spyxos]

I used to buy way more games in past generations. This whole 80€ price has me waiting for games to be 30-40€ before I even consider them, and that takes a long time. Some notable exceptions like Ubisoft games which are 50-70% off after a few months.

I feel the same way. The 80 euros are no longer in the territory where I test out a game out of curiosity. I'm now waiting for discounts or I'm very sure that I really want it. Otherwise I won't buy it.

 

[Gaiff]

What a completely stupid and false thing to say:

“Navok noted that if a game costs $100 million to make over five years, it has to beat what the company could have returned investing a similar amount in the stock market over the same period. “For the 5 years prior to Feb 2024, the stock market averaged a rate of return of 14.5%. Investing that $100m in the stock market would net you a return of $201m, so this is our ROI baseline,” he explained.”

Curious but why do you say it’s false and stupid? He was the director of business at Square Enix Holdings, so I assume he’s not just talking out of his ass.

 

[feynoob]

All this Fortnite craze.... I don't get it. I never even played this game. Mincecraft just a couple of time. How can people play that stuff years on end? I used to play CS for a year or two and by the end of it was so done with it, I can't find any joy in MP games today. How can people be ok with that? Not looking forward and asking for something new?

Its a great game. It does what the players want. A fun game.

 

[hemo memo]

“Sales expectations generally come from a need to cover the cost of development”

So you have ridiculous expectations then.

 

[Clear]

It should have been no surprise that the middle chapter in an unfinished trilogy would sell less strongly than the first part of a series of uncertain length!

Its not a natural point for players to jump in, especially not day #1.

This is really obvious stuff.

 

[Edgelord79]

The problem isn't that new gamers aren't being born, the problem is the new gamers only play Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft, Genshin Impact, etc.

They aren't playing FF and Square Enix and also other traditional AAA console/PC game makers have a serious problem because of this

Can corroborate this. My son is more interested in Roblox and Fortnite than anything else.

 

[Doom85]

It’s common sense that a lower price means more people will buy games

Nearly two times more (to cover the massive price drop you’re pushing for) consistently for all these titles?

 

[ProtoByte]

They could price games at $40, and sell 2x-5x times as many copies, earning millions more dollars in the process.

Games regularly drop to $40 dollars and do not go on to sell 50 million copies. Most major ones barely crack 10 these days.

Governments would be doing business a huge favor (and themselves with tax money) by raising wages with inflation.

That doesn't make any sense.
Out of curiosity, why do you think inflation is such a problem now?

But no. Government makes a wage that even with working full time, people can't afford any apartment to live at.

The government doesn't make the wage. And you should be happy that they don't have more control, because there are plenty of current and past examples where they do, and it isn't pretty.

It's happening in New York. People working minimum wage can't afford any apartment in the whole city.

That's a direct result of cheap loans.

This is the way. You can have a handful of AAA titles like the FF7 Rebirth and FF16 releases, but you need to suplement those development costs with faster, more cost effective releases. A 30,000,000 budget 1:1 remake (essentially a glorified remaster with new graphics, animations, etc) of an old game can help immensely..

You understand that this is almost exactly what Square has been doing, and it hasn't worked?

Also don't refuse to sell your fucking games physically and make htem stupidly limited will also help. I know hundreds of people who would have bought the FF1-6 Collector's edition and normal editions for PS4/Switch if they didn't' sell out instantly with no chance (at least in the PS4's version case) of restock.

Agreed.

Nintendo learned this a loooong time ago, and they haven't forgotten what it means to remain profitable and not to go chasing the latest fad.

Nintendo didn't learn shit. They stopped advancing technology and are lucky to benefit from having the longest legacied IP in the industry.

The FF fanbase is split among all these platforms

It really isn't.

 

[feynoob]

I feel the same way. The 80 euros are no longer in the territory where I test out a game out of curiosity. I'm now waiting for discounts or I'm very sure that I really want it. Otherwise I won't buy it.

With 70$ tag, i am not buying games anymore.
I am just waiting for ultimate edition for 30$. Better content and cheap price.

 

[Sentenza]

Jesus Christ, Twitter/X as a way to follow any long form writing will never not be complete garbage.

 

[Ozriel]

It’s a stupid benchmark for the time value of money. My whole point.

“Here I will show you how it is totally not true we set unrealistically high RoI expectations and let me proceed to show you we totally did”. Thanks Adam, quality threads .

 

[bitbydeath]

Games regularly drop to $40 dollars and do not go on to sell 50 million copies. Most major ones barely crack 10 these days.

50M would be a crazy number. Many die at 1-2M.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Their target is just the games budget + missed opportunity cost and anything beyond that is a success.

I thought their expectations were high, but holy shit, their expectations were about as low as it gets and they still cant hit that target despite their games doing pretty well critically. Either this industry is nearing some breaking point or Squares games have non-existant appeal (or both)

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Unrealistic expectations. FF has a big following but it's nowhere near current heavyweights like Monster Hunter or Genshin/Honkai Star Rail, games with a budget much bigger than FF while being more profitable. Maybe people at Square need to brighten up a bit and realize they have lost their identity and others are eating their cake.

 

[adamsapple]

It’s common sense that a lower price means more people will buy games

Not necessarily, otherwise well reviewed and regarded Indie games would be the top sellers of the year, not the annual CoD or Maddens.

 

[Fabieter]

Unrealistic expectations. FF has a big following but it's nowhere near current heavyweights like Monster Hunter or Genshin/Honkai Star Rail, games with a budget much bigger than FF while being more profitable. Maybe people at Square need to brighten up a bit and realize they have lost their identity and others are eating their cake.

You can ignore the gatcha element in honkai and have a good jrpgish story for free which get more story content you name without any additional costs. Those f2p games are a threat to tradional gaming.

 

[saintjules]

That was well worth the read and is a great insight as to what companies are dealing with on having to make their return.

 

[Viking Warrior]

I know I would buy a ton more games at $40, it doesn’t even have to be $40 but the current $70 is not sustainable.

Wait until they price games at $100 and then wonder why no one is buying them,$70 is already to much,they are pricing themselves out of existence.Much better to get $40 per game than $0,it's called common sense. Imagine if all automobiles cost $100,000,would they sell very many?Consumers set the price of goods not the manufacturer's,it's called voting with your wallet.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Put Cloud and Tifa in Fortnite. One and done.

 

[Viking Warrior]

With 70$ tag, i am not buying games anymore.
I am just waiting for ultimate edition for 30$. Better content and cheap price.

Three rules: Never pay full price for a game,Never buy a game day one or in the first month of release, Always obey rules 1 & 2

 

[DaGwaphics]

In a roundabout way he kind of undoes his own thesis there. Part of their unrealistic expectations is the budget itself, both in marketing and game production.

They need to find ways to not spend as much. When you look at all the tools that have been introduced in recent years, with almost all of them designed to improve workflow, you have to wonder how the cost has ballooned so much without much visible return. But, they do mention the growth that was occurring at the time and so on, maybe they will watch the bottom line more on future releases.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Men_in_Boxes . all of this is your fault. hope you are happy

GAAS saved the gaming industry.

We owe everything to GAAS.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

GAAS saved the gaming industry.

We owe everything to GAAS.

GaaS is killing the gaming industy

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

GaaS is killing the gaming industy

The numbers say quite the opposite.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The numbers say quite the opposite.

their numbers say that people have been infected by the GaaS virus; mindless time sinkers that have hijacked an entire industry.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

Many people are not spending $100CAD on a new release and I know many folks in my circle who will wait until a significant price drop is announced.
When games were 60$ it was a lot more reasonable to buy multiple games in a shorter period.

 

[saintjules]

Many people are not spending $100CAD on a new release and I know many folks in my circle who will wait until a significant price drop is announced.
When games were 60$ it was a lot more reasonable to buy multiple games in a shorter period.

It's interesting to hear sometimes that a $10 increase on a purchase significantly changes the buyer's thoughts on buying a title day 1.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

their numbers say that people have been infected by the GaaS virus; mindless time sinkers that have hijacked an entire industry.

 

[SCB3]

For me it seems the lack of Audience being limited to just 1 system, cutting out a big 2 consuming crowd in Xbox and PC is going to cost them

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I don't know if FF fans are being born faster than they're dying.

Final Fantasy XV sold over 10 million. There’s still a big audience for these games provided they make something gamers actually want and release it on all platforms.

For me it seems the lack of Audience being limited to just 1 system, cutting out a big 2 consuming crowd in Xbox and PC is going to cost them

I think this is part of it. Hopefully their new “aggressive multiplatform strategy” means the next game will release on PS5/Xbox/Steam/Switch 2 all on day 1. No more of these ridiculous timed exclusivity deals.

 

[mayham2199]

Are you saying you, yourself, would not buy more games if they were cheaper?

Me personally? No. I think games should cost more. I just don’t have the time. I just started Spider-Man 2. Thank god it’s not a very long game.

 

[SCB3]

Final Fantasy XV sold over 10 million. There’s still a big audience for these games provided they make something gamers actually want and release it on all platforms.


I think this is part of it. Hopefully their new “aggressive multiplatform strategy” means the next game will release on PS5/Xbox/Steam/Switch 2 all on day 1. No more of these ridiculous timed exclusivity deals.

Even a 1 year PS Exclusive would work, for example FF7 Rebirth coming out? Why not put Remake out on Xbox soon before and hope you get some crossover crowds

 

[mayham2199]

All this Fortnite craze.... I don't get it. I never even played this game. Mincecraft just a couple of time. How can people play that stuff years on end? I used to play CS for a year or two and by the end of it was so done with it, I can't find any joy in MP games today. How can people be ok with that? Not looking forward and asking for something new?

I don’t get it either. I was into genshin impact for a while and now I’m done with it. Maybe I’ll go back one day.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Sqaure enix said multiple times that they weren't happy with smaller games either. Stuff like octopath 2 and triangle also didn't get them alot of money. You can expect less of those in the future.

Actually they praised some of them: https://gamerant.com/triangle-strategy-sales/

 

[K' Dash]

They're actual LAST Final Fantasy Masterpiece was Final Fantasy VI on the SNES, everything went downhill after that.

 

[Astral Dog]

More sales = more money.

The value of each sale also matters, thats why Nintendo doesn't lower their prices for example, if there is enough demand it should sell

The problem is elsewhere idk if the FF brand appeal is limited, or if the potential audience simply are moving to other platforms( like Switch), i guess we will see if Square can recover in the coming years, i think at least both FFVIIR and FFXVI appear to be strong titles with good reviews and high quality

 

[justiceiro]

Well, I appreciate the breakdown, but it kinda misses the point. Most publishers deal with that by having few hits, but square keep producing dud after dud on their most expensive games. He said publisher spend a lot to guarantee game will be a 10/10, but square managed to do the opposite. They created a studio just to promote their engine, but the game they created was... Forspoken.

Isn't weird that hitman struggled so much while under square, but io interactive did just fine living solely from it after they split?

It's also funny to consider how they are very good at making mid size experiences. Their pixel remasters are a success, and so is their 2d-HD games and remakes. Their MMOs are also successful. It's only their AAA games that always fell short of expectations.

 

[Insane Metal]

Unless people buy more FF, it really could be the final fantasy.

You know Sid, this really is the Final Fantasy.

 

[Vlodril]

That makes no sense. If the price is an issue for an individual consumer, they’ll likely just grab it when it’s on sale for around $40. So why lower the price for the launch release, that just means they’re making even less profit. And as was said before me, some games only attract so large an audience regardless of price.

That is not true at all. There were a lot of games that i would have picked up for 40 but after a while you lose both the initial hype for it and there are so many other games that come out that you either stop caring of simply forgetting about them.

Also there is a perceived loss of value when time passes (no idea why since it's not like they get worse with time but it's there).

 

[yazenov]

Not necessarily, otherwise well reviewed and regarded Indie games would be the top sellers of the year, not the annual CoD or Maddens.

Yeah, the biggest example of this is Hellblade 2. Probably the biggest 1st party flop behind Redfall.