Well, it is Karma for one, and two, this isn't Karma. It isn't the wack jobs out of work, it is the women who weren't complaining out of work.Haha carma is a bitch
I guess weather girls will be next to go too.
Serious question, what are people trying to pull in this decade? How does this help anything?
I just don't understand how "liberals" have become so sex-negative and puritanical.
They are not liberal. Modern Feminism is AuthoritarianSerious question, what are people trying to pull in this decade? How does this help anything?
I just don't understand how "liberals" have become so sex-negative and puritanical.
They are not liberal. Modern Feminism is Authoritarian
....Neither was it something I saw as one of Formula 1's priorities to change to allow the sport to evolve.
'Grid girls' were a tradition within the sport. At most races they are well dressed and representing top luxury brands. At the Austrian Grand Prix they were in traditional dress (the dirndl) and it was perceived as an honour to be picked as a 'grid girl' for an F1 Grand Prix.
During my time racing in German Touring Cars for Mercedes-Benz, I can recall getting into one conversation with a 'grid girl' while waiting for my parade lap to start. She was a medical student who found it fascinating to be so close to the racing car and on the grid just before the race start.
I set up the Dare To Be Different organisation to try to promote efforts to make a step-change, to drive female talent.
Let's take the successful women in the sport and make role models out of them to inspire others. Let's get school girls around an F1 show car and allow them to dream. Let's increase the talent pool of girls and women entering the sport.
The next generation are now in prominent roles within teams and in the management of F1. From my personal experience they are a lot more open to the fact that women are capable of achieving the same things as men in a competitive and performance-based environment.
There is a big lack of culture in Formula 1," said Ceccarelli. "Too many drivers focus on physical strength and not enough on the mental side.
"Yes, you need the strong muscles in the neck and upper body so you can have the energy to drive without any tiredness, but once you reach a certain level - there's no more benefit. There's no point putting on extra muscle.
"Endurance training, rather than weight training, then becomes key. The heart will become bigger, which pumps more blood to the brain. That in turn improves the efficiency of the brain and improves the driver's ability to perform all the tasks he needs to perform in the cockpit. Slowly, drivers are coming round to this idea but there's a still long way to go.
"To achieve the optimum in training, our research shows a driver needs to spend just 30% of their time on physical training and the other 70% on brain training. If you can train the brain to be more efficient, it's easier to multi-task and that will make the bigger difference in terms of performance."
And until now, the latter has always been the problem. From the five women who had a chance in F1, three failed to qualify for a race - they drove cars that simply weren't good enough.
So when will we see a female driver be given a real chance to prove herself in an F1 race? "Definitely within the next decade," said Wolff. "There's a few of us close to F1 now. It would just take a massive leap of faith for one of the teams to give a female a chance.
She makes some fair points. But ultimately, would getting female drives pull female viewers?
Would women really care about the actual race over the fact of just rooting for a female driver to win.
Definitely not. Can't reply to all as now on mobile. But I think she's saying even if a team with a good quality car took a chance on a female driver now and it started gaining traction, you'll only see these changes cascaded in 15/20 years as proportional representation (relative to the general sex to dangerous jobs ratio).
Which is why she is saying that is more important than destroying an entire subculture of a sport. No one is taking a chance in female drivers at the high end, and the point was made if you put Damon Hill in a shit car he would lose too.
I don't really know how you get past that unless the teams have an invitational to women as a guest racer on the qualifiers (maybe they have? I'm just spitballing without knowing at this point).
Yeah i know, but what did people expect,that is was only going to effect men, even the ladies who like they re work will be effected because of the fucking movement.Well, it is Karma for one, and two, this isn't Karma. It isn't the wack jobs out of work, it is the women who weren't complaining out of work.
Don’t these extremists leftist understand that they are really are not being liberal at all. They making strict rules that everyone must follow.
Regardless of which side of the argument you fall on here, Comparing grid girls to minstrel shows seems disingenuous. Last time I checked grid girls position employed women while the actors employed in minstrel werent actually African Americans but white guys in black face.People liked and chose to work in minstrel shows. People liking and wanting to work in a place has next to nothing to do with this argument.
F1 is a product people are selling. People are allowed to comment on aspects of that product that they liked or didn't like. If I'm watching a TV show that's constantly interspersed with random half naked dudes, then I'm allowed to complain about that.
But they celebrated the removal and women losing their jobs which is as bad as demanding to remove it. I would compare it with people condeming violence but on the other hand celebrate when people they do not agree with get punched in the face.
Regardless of which side of the argument you fall on here, Comparing grid girls to minstrel shows seems disingenuous. Last time I checked grid girls position employed women while the actors employed in minstrel werent actually African Americans but white guys in black face.
Selfjustice is against the law and only acceptable in Super Hero movies. To shut someone down with fear is the wrong way. Especially when you fight against right wing extremists. They will A use these violent attacks against you to make them the victims and B. It makes their belives even stronger because while they are not violent the other side is. When you cause someone to lose his job he wont be understanding. He will hate even more. And then something like Charlottesville will happen again.Kinda disagree. Celebrating the use of violence to stop free speech is very different than celebrating the elimination of what you think is a morally outdated role.
.
They are not liberal. Modern Feminism is Authoritarian
I doesn't help anything. It's regressive.
It's shallow, base and very selfish putting your own insecurities onto other people.
TBF we've had ppl like this each decade. The difference is the internet is here for this one.
Amazing how the right-wing responses here are just blaming feminists as a scapegoat. Do you really think that a businessman in a board room is going to care that some feminist blogger complains about grid girls? Besides, I haven't heard of any complaints about grid girls in the leftist circles I'm in, until this story broke.
If grid girls were important for F1's business, they would stay. When there is money to be made, nobody is going to care about some random feminist complaining about it. This seems more like a case of societal norm changes making the concept of grid girls outdated. People who watch Formula 1 are there to watch car racing, not grid girls. They have been deemed unimportant and therefore have been fired.
Workers who don't bring value to the company will get fired. That's Capitalism, baby.
They are only assuming that's the case.Nobody is using Feminism as a scapegoat. It's because feminism that these girls are being let go. The girls have said so themselves. Glamour girls and models have been a target for this crap for a very long time.
If this kind of marketing is effective, F1 will be receiving plenty of complaints from marketing companies this year.Yes I do believe that enough noise from these harpies will scare companies into following suit. It worked at PAX, Darts, Walk on agencies, and UFC.
I'm not sure you understand how Walk on girls work but they are basically walking advertisements. They pay for themselves (and more so) by third party companies.
They get peoples attention more that billboards and have been effective by it for a decades.
The "vast majority" (really a vocal minority) are against it because this gives a bunch of people a chance to say "fuck feminism" for a while. But eventually the controversy will die and F1 races will continue without the grid girls. The protests are not in support of grid girls, they are protests against feminism. If the grid girls were let go for another reason than "societal norms", the protests would not be happening.The worst thing is F1 cite "societal norms" for the ban when the vast majority are against it...
Sucks for them. The current climate is terrible. Who makes up the rules? Why are "grid girls" not okay and who determines that? I can't believe they lost their jobs for the "cause". smh
This topic is funny.
Modern feminism is overwhelmingly in favor of women using their bodies any way they see fit. This would include being a "grid girl."
Did that work with basketball?But I do think it would be interesting if F1 managed and promoted a female racing league and had the same constructors compete there.
Citation needed, seriously. As far as I see, there is absolutely no evidence for this move to be financially justified.Sex does sell, however, the way F1 was selling sex made enough people unhappy that they decided to change that in order to prevent them possibly losing money.
While I agree with with your point of there naturally being no parity, still, even if you stick with evolution theory, it is still about "likely / less likely".So the men in the top 0.1%, out far on the bell curve of racing ability are going to vastly outperform women in a reaction time based sport like racing.
Looking at fatal accidents at work statistics, it hasn't changed. (about 20 to 1)Women have never really been associated with high risk jobs or dangerous sports in the past.
Did that work with basketball?
Could we look into reversed gender examples, meanwhile? Beach volleyball.
Citation needed, seriously. As far as I see, there is absolutely no evidence for this move to be financially justified.
I would say that the Wnba has be completely mismanaged, it's a league where it's stars go and play in other European leagues because they can make more money there. Diana Taurasi, a WNBA legend, a couple of years ago straight up skipped her Wnba season so she could rest up to play for a Russian team. A poorly run league will obviously not work in this landscape.
I don't know much about MMA.I don't know why we should ignore tennis and MMA, huge sports who've proven that you can make it work.
The men are generally paid significantly more than the women, which is largely a reflection of television viewing figures. Last year the men’s tour was watched by a total global TV audience of 973 million, including 102 million for the year-end finale at the O2, while the women’s tour attracted 395 million viewers, including 32 million for the finale in Singapore.
I believe it is them avoiding bad PR (and after that, unless some miracle happens and it is reversed, others will have to follow or be dubbed women haters).Also, F1 is an asset for a business, therefore, I think it's reasonable to assume that every decision they make has money in mind, unless you have any evidence that this a grand moral stand for them. Even if this was them reacting to some great public outcry/protest (which I don't believe happened), that would still be them trying to defend themselves from bad PR and potentially losing money in the future.
WNBA has by far the strongest competitor on our planet: NBA. It just doesn't look that well in contrast.
The same applies to football, it simply isn't as spectacular.
I don't know much about MMA.
As for tennis, remember the women tennis pay controversy? (
Two to one viewing audience, in finals three to one.
In the end it comes down to "who can attract more viewers".
In case of beach volleyball, it is women. (I'm not into it, but would assume people like almost naked women more than men)
I personally prefer watching classical women volleyball to men's, since women are more likely to succeed at defending, with men it's a slam through fest. (there is a crisis in volleyball in general, it must be said)
I believe it is them avoiding bad PR (and after that, unless some miracle happens and it is reversed, others will have to follow or be dubbed women haters).
The issue here is that it is a small vocal sex negative minority that is orchestrating it.
I apologise, maybe you misread the earlier debate I was having. The argument wasn't "will the male sports league be more successful than the female sports league?", the argument was "is a female sports league viable?". Therefore, the women tennis pay controversy has nothing to do with this, nor does volleyball. The existence of a male/female league does not mean the other sexes' league can't exist and be successful.
Also, "The issue here is that it is a small vocal sex negative minority that is orchestrating it.", rings hollow when to my knowledge there is no great public outcry/protest (please fill me in if you think I'm wrong). The only people I've seen talking about this before the announcement are journalists who've covered the sport for years. And by the way, with the whole "sex negative" thing, as I said earlier. There is nothing wrong with sex objects, there is a problem with the culture that surrounds them. The culture that surrounds all of us. It's a problem of restricted female participation, except when they can be made into sex objects. That's the issue.
While I agree with with your point of there naturally being no parity, still, even if you stick with evolution theory, it is still about "likely / less likely".
E.g. Scarlet (SC2). Given how much smaller female SC2 player base is, it's even more amazing.
Actors pretend to be someone they aren't, it's the job.Regardless of which side of the argument you fall on here, Comparing grid girls to minstrel shows seems disingenuous. Last time I checked grid girls position employed women while the actors employed in minstrel werent actually African Americans but white guys in black face.
Apologies, now I get what you're saying.
The pay controversy itself is an example, Djokovic didn't say "pay men more", pay 'based on how much income you make from sports" is quite different and an actual practice, but was slammed nevertheless.
Could you elaborate why Djokovic should be paid the same as Williams, if his matches are attracting less viewers and hence less income? Isn't it fair if he gets paid less?
There are certain issues that for some reasons get into "too sensitive" mode that prevents discourse.
The issue is, "grid girls are restricting female participation" theory lacks evidence.
There are cheerleaders in basketball, but not in soccer (I assume), yet there hasn't been noticeable difference from female participation perspective and both teams dominate world cups.
Also here it has something to do with biology and also the reception.By that logic, why should Djokovic get paid the same as any person? If I'm a mid-tier tennis player and Djokovic and I make it into a grand slam finals, and I win, then I will make more money than Djokovic. By the logic you provided, that makes no sense, Djokovic is way more famous than me so his matches during the tournament may have had an order of magnitude more viewers than mine.
Tennis is a series of tournaments. This dispute isn't about negotiated individual contracts, it's about tournament winnings. So, why should women's tournaments have winnings less than men's tournaments? If you're a singles Wimbledon champion, shouldn't the prize be the same for you whether you're a man or woman? One argument against me might be "the bigger stars are in the men's league so they should make more as they attract more viewers". If that's the case, shouldn't male tournament winnings go down if someone like Djokovic isn't in the tournament due to injury? Also, lower ranked male players successfully pushed for the payout for lower round eliminations from Wimbledon a couple of years ago, so this has never been a purely female issue.
At the end of the day. It's a nice thing to do. It's a symbolic gesture. There are arguments in both directions.
Also, to clarify my argument isn't "grid girls are restricting female participation", my argument is that female participation is restricted, except when they can be made into sex objects.
By that logic, why should Djokovic get paid the same as any person? If I'm a mid-tier tennis player and Djokovic and I make it into a grand slam finals, and I win, then I will make more money than Djokovic. By the logic you provided, that makes no sense, Djokovic is way more famous than me so his matches during the tournament may have had an order of magnitude more viewers than mine.
Less in this context is misleading.So, why should women's tournaments have winnings less than men's tournaments?
I don't quite understand what you mean by "restricted" in this context. So if I'm an insanely skilled female driver, exactly what would stop me, what would not stop similarly skilled male driver?Also, to clarify my argument isn't "grid girls are restricting female participation", my argument is that female participation is restricted, except when they can be made into sex objects.
No, and I've just given an example: volleyball. Even if you bar bikini aspect, women's games are more entertaining to watch, sometimes there is too much strength.It is no secret that male tennis as an example is way more powerful and "athletic" than the women part and call it bad or good this form draws more people into the stadiums. It is the same with every other physical sport.
Ok maybe I should have put highly paid into it as well. And yes I agree its more exciting and yes also because of the bikinis IMONo, and I've just given an example: volleyball. Even if you bar bikini aspect, women's games are more entertaining to watch, sometimes there is too much strength.
The children used will be competitors in karting or junior categories, chosen by national motorsport authorities.
"This will be an extraordinary moment for these youngsters," F1's American commercial chief Sean Bratches said.