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[Psychotext]

Cockpit view hurts me mentally. I need to be able to look around it with my head / eyes, and (short of afore mentioned head tracking display headset), that's not currently possible.

Makes me feel like I'm wearing a neck brace and driving or something. :lol

 

[saladine1]

In my opinion, a view that incorporates the windshield, top half of the dash and steering wheel would be the most practical in car view.
Something along the lines of the old Colin Mcrae games.
As a matter of fact, years ago in an old interview with Dan Greenawalt, (Mr.Turn 10), actually alluded to this view when quizzed on the matter.
So, you might get an in car view after all, just not the traditional eye candy version, ala GT.

 

[AranhaHunter]

My opinion of the cockpit view is that it does add immersion but you need a whole setup in order for it to really be immersive. I bet most people don't use the cockpit view....if it's too expensive to do it, then it might not be worth it, from a business standpoint.

 

[J-Rzez]

J-Rzez old bugger, we might not see eye to eye on a lot of things, but I couldn't have said it better myself.

Far chase cam for efficiency - cockpit view for immersion and the adrenaline rush - bumper/hood cam for fuck you this is the worst view ever.

*high five*

Exactly my thoughts. If any view had to go, it should be that bumper crap. Though I imagine they keep them there since perhaps some people like them, and they're obviously not that much of a resource hog as a cockpit view.

Hood view is "ok" I guess, when compared to radiator/intercooler/bumper/lip view. It just has to be done right. Even then, I still would prefer cockpit to the bonnet/hood cam.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

Maybe they can pull a capcom and say cockpit view wasn't part of the original scope/budget and offer it as DLC content later on?

 

[Ranger X]

edit²: that Race Driver 3 view someone posted earlier, now that could be an acceptable alternative to a fully modelled cockpit. Inside the car, with a touch of the dashboard visible but not too much space obstructed. I'm a sucker for fully modelled cockpits that put you behind the steering wheel, but I guess I'd accept that as a compromise. iirc you could move your head around in there as well (or am I confusing that with Grid?)

You had a "look left" and a "look right". There wasn't a freeview.
Anyhow, still was the best cockpit view ever that isn't Prologue.

 

[iam220]

Oh and Prologue cockpit view is quite godly. OBSERVE IT. Best i've seen in any game, any platform, ever.
.

Uh no, definitely not even close to being the best. Maybe when it comes to graphics sure, but as far as everything else the crown goes to Live For Speed for best cockpit view.

edit:

http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Image:ViewCustom.jpg Have a look for yourself.

 

[pedrothelion]

If they made the cockpit came where the camera is placed right up to the windshield and you could only see the top portion of the steering wheal that might be good thing. I just hope they stay away from the PGR style cam.

What I really hope they overhaul is the online portion of the game. My dream is a Halo style online set up. They could set up different leagues. One that is more casual and the other more competitive with the assists turned off where you can make money off of wins. They could set up different play lists (and change them regularly) based on class restrictions, engine hp, etc. Much like what they do in the single player game. I think that this would get people playing different classes and generally keep things fresh. It would also force people play something other then U class oval races.

I also hope they adjust the physics and/or damage model. It seemed like in Forza 2 if some one pushed you would get the brunt of the damage and may be go flying off the track while the instigator's car would only receive very minor damage. It just seemed like there was all sorts of rewards for bumping other driver’s cars but no real risk for the offending driver.

 

[Aquanox]

What's a Forza?

Literally, it means "Strength" in Italian.

 

[Pimpbaa]

oh boy I wonder if this will come out before GT5 ever materializes

It better. Otherwise I'm not going to give a flying fuck about Forza 3. I hope at least one of them come out this year. Forza 2 is starting to get old

 

[Aquanox]

It better. Otherwise I'm not going to give a flying fuck about Forza 3. I hope at least one of them come out this year. Forza 2 is starting to get old

Not older than the last GT.

 

[RSTEIN]

Maybe they can pull a capcom and say cockpit view wasn't part of the original scope/budget and offer it as DLC content later on?

And it's already on the disc! I wouldn't put it past Che. That bastard would sink that low.

Where the hell is he >.> He's been banned for a looooong time :lol

 

[Stinkles]

I drive exclusively cockpit view in all my sims.

I always think it's weird that sim fans prefer the least realistic mode of all.

 

[Big Takeover]

Cockpit view is very expensive and time consuming to create for huge asset-heavy games like GT and FM. Does the investment pay off if only a small number of your player base use it when they play?

I'm curious how many people drive in cockpit view exclusively in GT?

No, I don't think it does, although it may be more about keeping up with the Joneses. The lack of a cockpit view was often mentioned in the FM2 reviews, and it's obviously still a hot topic. You might care about review scores and perception, but I couldn't care less. I just play these things for enjoyment.

If a game has a cockpit view I absolutely use it 100% of the time, but if it doesn't it's not a big deal. Bumper cam, hood view, etc - I just get on with the driving.

If you need to trade off cockpits, just be sure to deliver on the rest. My guess is that the people who honestly care most about cockpits also care a great deal about physics, track count, tuning, and other sim-like attributes (I'm not saying exclusively those people care!). Deliver in spades on those, and lack of cockpits becomes more forgivable.

In my opinion, a view that incorporates the windshield, top half of the dash and steering wheel would be the most practical in car view.
Something along the lines of the old Colin Mcrae games.
As a matter of fact, years ago in an old interview with Dan Greenawalt, (Mr.Turn 10), actually alluded to this view when quizzed on the matter.
So, you might get an in car view after all, just not the traditional eye candy version, ala GT.

That's often brought up, and I think it's a pretty good compromise. There's modeling to be done, but it doesn't need to be nearly as critical as the whole interior.

 

[J-Rzez]

And it's already on the disc! I wouldn't put it past Che. That bastard would sink that low.

Where the hell is he >.> He's been banned for a looooong time :lol

He's been posting in this thread? :lol

 

[RSTEIN]

He's been posting in this thread? :lol

Well fuck me! I always identified him via his avatar :lol

 

[chespace]

No, I don't think it does, although it may be more about keeping up with the Joneses. The lack of a cockpit view was often mentioned in the FM2 reviews, and it's obviously still a hot topic. You might care about review scores and perception, but I couldn't care less. I just play these things for enjoyment.

I agree, it's important to keep up appearances for marketing purposes. Which is why it boggles my mind GT can get away for so long without damage, visual customization, and a great online experience. Is it purely on the strength of its graphics alone?

 

[a Master Ninja]

I agree, it's important to keep up appearances for marketing purposes. Which is why it boggles my mind GT can get away for so long without damage, visual customization, and a great online experience. Is it purely on the strength of its graphics alone?

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it.

 

[JayDub]

GT4 is underrated and under appreciated IMO,

Even though its an opinion, its pretty misguided. I have NO idea where you got that, maybe a couple of friends who didnt like the game?

The game is widely considered one of the (if not the) best racing game ever. It has so many cars that many tend to agree with the creator's view of a virtual car encyclopedia. Respected by both gamers and developers, as well as consistently getting near perfect review scores every where.

Sales wise, it was a huge success. I can't walk into a casual gamer's house without GT4 being part of their collection.


You must be smoking crack.

 

[Flavius]

Pull out your clicker, Che, but good god, whatever you do, don't show it to me.

Another vote for cockpit view. When it's available and it works, it's what I use...dun-dun-dun...exclusively!

How's PGR5 going?

 

[Gbeav]

Hi guys. Long time no talk.

I know this isn't the twitter thread, but you can get the latest updates from me here: @turn10studios.

Things are really busy here with our next big thing. Good times.

G25

 

[chespace]

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it.

Heh, this is why I don't post here anymore. Doesn't matter what I say anyways. Everyone else in tihs thread can discuss GT vs. other racing games except me.

Alright, I'm outtie. You know where you can find me.

 

[JayDub]

I agree, it's important to keep up appearances for marketing purposes. Which is why it boggles my mind GT can get away for so long without damage, visual customization, and a great online experience. Is it purely on the strength of its graphics alone?

I gotta tell ya, Che, graphics mean a lot. I love FM2, but the only time it didn't look like a washed out, jaggie mess is when the car was fully damaged.

I agree about the great online experience and visual customization. It was nuts to see all the designs people made.

 

[a Master Ninja]

Heh, this is why I don't post here anymore.

Don't be like that, I was going for the easy joke. I actually prefer Forza to GT specifically because of the visual customization and online experience. The fact that I have an Itagaki avatar should signal that I like devs giving their honest opinions of competitor's products (and the occasional trash talking).

 

[Flavius]

Don't be like that, I was going for the easy joke. I actually prefer Forza to GT specifically because of the visual customization and online experience.

Too late. This is why no one in the industry likes you.

Meanie!

 

[Pimpbaa]

I agree, it's important to keep up appearances for marketing purposes. Which is why it boggles my mind GT can get away for so long without damage, visual customization, and a great online experience. Is it purely on the strength of its graphics alone?

More cars, better career mode, and better gameplay. The Forza series so far is just a wannabe. Better than Sega GT, but not nearly as good at Gran Turismo.

 

[Ranger X]

Uh no, definitely not even close to being the best. Maybe when it comes to graphics sure, but as far as everything else the crown goes to Live For Speed for best cockpit view.

edit:

http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Image:ViewCustom.jpg Have a look for yourself.

Oh well, I guess you're right there. But it's me that wasn't being clear, I primarily meant "consoles". I did not include the PC sim racers in my thoughts. They are generally ahead in pretty much any conceivable aspects.

.

 

[Flavius]

(neutral) Pimpbaa
Official Forum Cocksucker
(Today, 04:10 PM)
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[Meier]

I hope there is more track variety... Forza 2 lost a lot of its fun in the career mode due to being overly repetitive.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Literally, it means "Strength" in Italian.

Isn't that what they call their national soccer team too?

 

[Keikoku]

Lol the GT defense force is hilarious.

More cars, better career mode, and better gameplay. The Forza series so far is just a wannabe. Better than Sega GT, but not nearly as good at Gran Turismo.

How GT could be better without any physics, AI and good online experience in 2009 ? Fanboyism is the only answer.

 

[Pimpbaa]

(neutral) Pimpbaa
Official Forum Cocksucker
(Today, 04:10 PM)
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I'm being a cocksucker for stating the obvious? If he and his team can't get why people think the GT series is better, than they will never make a game better than it. Ok, maybe I am being a cocksucker, but still.

edit: I think I'm gonna have 1 less twitter follower, if he is still reading this thread :lol

 

[Psychotext]

If he and his team can't get why people think the GT series is better...

There's a reason people think GT is better than Forza, and there's a reason people think Forza is better than GT. Both of these reasons have a lot in common, and they have nothing to do with the actual games.

 

[Pimpbaa]

There's a reason people think GT is better than Forza, and there's a reason people think Forza is better than GT. Both of these reasons have a lot in common, and they have nothing to do with the actual games.

I don't care what those particular people think. Only those with both systems have opinions that matter.

 

[AranhaHunter]

I always think it's weird that sim fans prefer the least realistic mode of all.

I'm sorry, what?

I agree, it's important to keep up appearances for marketing purposes. Which is why it boggles my mind GT can get away for so long without damage, visual customization, and a great online experience. Is it purely on the strength of its graphics alone?

Not graphics, purely on the strength of the franchise, when you sell 10 million every iteration and 3 millions for a damn prologue, you get away with some shit, and well, to be honest, the PS2 online was a joke, GT5P is faulty online from what I hear, but that's mainly just a beta, GT5 will have great online, no doubt about it. I think lack of visual customization can be explained by lack of HDD on the PS2, but yeah I'll have to say that in terms of customization Forza is ahead of GT.

Even though its an opinion, its pretty misguided. I have NO idea where you got that, maybe a couple of friends who didnt like the game?

The game is widely considered one of the (if not the) best racing game ever. It has so many cars that many tend to agree with the creator's view of a virtual car encyclopedia. Respected by both gamers and developers, as well as consistently getting near perfect review scores every where.

Sales wise, it was a huge success. I can't walk into a casual gamer's house without GT4 being part of their collection.


You must be smoking crack.

You start off being nice, and then you say I'm smoking crack. What I was trying to say is that this game is easily a 90+ game, but many reviewers saw the need to trash it for no reason.

Lol the GT defense force is hilarious.

If you're referring to me, then please tell me why it would make sense to release Forza 3 around GT5's release. That was mainly the main point I was trying to make in the beginning as they are both rumored to be coming out this Holiday season.

 

[AnnSwag]

I really want to see miller motorsports park in this game. And I want to see an in-car driving view, like race pro's. That game felt so clean when you could turn the heads up display off and just read the car's actual dials...

 

[iam220]

I always think it's weird that sim fans prefer the least realistic mode of all.

Explain yourself, how is a bumper cam more realistic then cockpit?

 

[Pimpbaa]

How GT could be better without any physics, AI and good online experience in 2009 ? Fanboyism is the only answer.

There was a GT released in 2009 already?

 

[Woz]

Isn't that what they call their national soccer team too?

LOL no!
The national soccer team is called simply "Italia" (Italy), "forza Italia" is like "GO! Italy" as you can ear at the stadium.
And finally we can shout it again without thinking of Berlusconi

 

[Psychotext]

I don't care what those particular people think. Only those with both systems have opinions that matter.

I have both, I think they're both excellent games. Forza has some advantages, GT has some advantages.

 

[HurricaneJesus]

The fact that you need to ask if cockpit view is important show me that Forza 3 will not be worth the purchase. This is the reason why I did not buy Forza 2 after loving the first one. Ever since GT3 on the PS2, I have converted to cockpit view. I don't understand why, but I am a better driver in sim games using the interior view. I cleared the entire game using the interior view, and it felt perfect.

No interior view means no purchase from me. I guess there is always 4orza.

Just to add, I don't even care about what the car looks like form the inside, I don't need a detailed dash, etc. It is the simple placement of being in the drivers seat. It feels good, man.

 

[Domino Theory]

I always think it's weird that sim fans prefer the least realistic mode of all.

LOLwat. Cockpit view is the best for us sim fans.

SHIFT takes that to the next level, hopefully Forza 3 does, too.

 

[JoJo13]

Cockpit view or no buy. Same goes for GT5.

Cockpit view simply feels more immersive and next-gen. I cannot play any other way.

You can make the excuse that it may be 'too expensive', but the bottom line is I don't play enough sim racers, but when I do get around to playing one I want it to be incredibly polished with lots of content and not just another rehashed game two years later. So my money goes on the one that seems the most polished and with the most content.

 

[minx]

Cockpit view or NO buy for me

 

[Pimpbaa]

I have both, I think they're both excellent games. Forza has some advantages, GT has some advantages.

I think they both excellent games as well. I'm playing through Forza 2 right now in fact. But like when I was playing Forza 1 or Sega GT on the original Xbox (which I preferred over my ps2). I always wished I was playing a new Gran Turismo instead.

 

[Aquanox]

Way to screw the a civilized conversation with Che.

Bravo.

 

[Gbeav]

Liers, you will buy it even if it doesn't have cockpit view and you only have a 360.

:lol

 

[Y2Kev]

I would like some point to point races.

 

[Stinkles]

LOLwat. Cockpit view is the best for us sim fans.

SHIFT takes that to the next level, hopefully Forza 3 does, too.

But it's the least realistic. Otherwise I don't want to drive with you. When I am driving a car, be it my commuter blob, or a race car (I've driven Cart, Formula First and Formula Ford, as well as various non-Homologated cars) I don't look at the cockpit ever, except a snap glance at revs or speed. Having that stuff take up screen real estate, when my brain deletes it for safety in a real car, seems counterintuitive.

It makes sense in train or flight sims, where the instruments are the job at hand. But in a car? It's crazy.

 

[op_ivy]

I would like some point to point races.

yes please. preferably some on dirt

and i love cockpit cams, when they work. pgr4 had some awesome, completely playable ones, and some garbage ones that really affected your vision of your surroundings. i hope they are in for the sake of it, but if they arent, i'll be fine. bumper or bonnet are at least as good (from a purely race results perspective)

as others have mentioned, hopefully, we at least get a "rough" cockpit view ala CMR and RSC2 where you see just the upper dash and wheel and windscreen.