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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

N

nib95

Banned
statham said:
"Sims arent meant to give buckets of fun" explains GT5
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Lol, I really don't get this 'fun' as a criticism of GT5. It's as if a more realistic driving model, a better sense of speed, better AI, better steering wheel support, better visuals, more diversity in race types, vehicles, tracks etc don't add to the 'fun'.

Is it because GT5 starts it's campaign putting you in weedy cars or something and people just don't have the patience to race a couple of races to buy better, or is it because they can't adjust to a game without assists or something? Or maybe it's that they prefer non racing orientated community features such as a livery editor over actual racing?

Someone please explain it to me.


statham said:
60 fps should always be the norm, anyless then cut back on areas to make it 60 fps. 50 plus neat effects does not equal 60 fps.
Click to expand...

As mentioned several times now. 50fps is near enough the minimum in the frame rate analysis. Actual average frame rate is closer to 59fps. Which makes the frame rate complaints even more laughable. Guarantee the vast majority wouldn't even be able to tell when the frames dropped on screen during actual gameplay. I get the feeling it's brought up most because it's one of the few areas (beyond UI design) that Forza has GT trumped (marginally). Pre Spec II and F4, funnily enough the biggest complaint was about the AI.

It was GT5 the real driving simulator, F3 the real racing simulator. Now GT5 is the best at both.

.
 
statham

statham

Member
nib95 said:
Lol, I really don't get this 'fun' as a criticism of GT5. It's as if a more realistic driving model, a better sense of speed, better AI, better steering wheel support, better visuals, more diversity in race types, vehicles, tracks etc don't add to the 'fun'.

Is it because GT5 starts it's campaign putting you in weedy cars or something and people just don't have the patience to race a couple of races to buy better, or is it because they can't adjust to a game without assists or something? Or maybe it's that they prefer non racing orientated community features such as a livery editor over actual racing?

Someone please explain it to me.




As mentioned several times now. 50fps is near enough the minimum in the frame rate analysis. Actual average frame rate is closer to 59fps. Which makes the frame rate complaints even more laughable. Guarantee the vast majority wouldn't even be able to tell when the frames dropped on screen during actual gameplay.
Click to expand...
you should check to see where that quote came from, a GT fan and my sarcasm response. and 50 fps sucks. don't try to defend this.

you and metalmurphy should be fighting, if you two agree, one is not telling the truth.
 
G

Gek54

Junior Member
I constantly experience bad dips at the beginning of new laps in Rivals mode. Im guessing it has something to do with the ghost resetting?
 
N

nib95

Banned
statham said:
you should check to see where that quote came from, a GT fan and my sarcasm response. and 50 fps sucks. don't try to defend this.
Click to expand...

Of course 50fps sucks. But when it's a rarity (most of the drops are actually below 5fps) that isn't even noticeable in gameplay, and only happens for very brief instances of time (the vast majority of time during close up collisions), and you look at everything you get for those frames (better driving physics, AI, visuals, effects, lighting, car models, more AA etc etc) you kind of can't help but be shocked that the frame rate drop is so insignificant for everything you get in return for it.
 
statham

statham

Member
statham said:
you should check to see where that quote came from, a GT fan and my sarcasm response. and 50 fps sucks. don't try to defend this.

you and metalmurphy should be fighting, if you two agree, one is not telling the truth.
Click to expand...
PS3 50 FPS is near enough. TM
 
C

cobragt4001

Banned
NullPointer said:
I could watch this one all day

ibyAZDpSr0zHfm.gif
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Whoa I swear I thought that real.
 
GTP_Daverytimes

GTP_Daverytimes

Member
statham said:
name how many racing games run 34-60fps
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Well you seem to think that 60fps is the norm, which is why am asking you to name how many racing games that run at those frames.

Fake Edit: 34-60fps? i can firmly deduce that you don't know that you are talking about.
 
R

Red Blaster

Member
Since it's been confirmed that Forza 4 plays itself, this thread really should be closed. Can't compare a sim racing series like GT to an arcade racing series like Forza.
 
statham

statham

Member
GTP_Daverytimes said:
Well you seem to think that 60fps is the norm, which is why am asking you to name how many racing games that run at those frames.

Fake Edit: 34-60fps? i can firmly deduce that you don't know that you are talking about.
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ohhh, insult.
 
N

nib95

Banned
statham said:
name how many racing games run 34-60fps
Click to expand...

Do you actually own GT5 or have you ever played Spec II? I feel I'm getting dragged in to the bait. But I'll try to bail with this.

In this thread, Forza fans argue that an average difference of 1-2fps (and arguably sound effects) is more important than better...

Driving Physics
Handling
AI
Lighting
Effects
Graphics
Car models
Track accuracy
AA

It's quite humorous.
 
S

ShapeGSX

Member
nib95 said:
50fps is near enough the minimum in the frame rate analysis. Actual average frame rate is closer to 59fps.
Click to expand...

You don't perceive average frame rate over a full play session. You perceive the length of time a single frame is on the screen. So when a group of frames are on the screen for 20ms (50fps) or 25ms (40fps) instead of 16ms, you notice the stutter.
 
F

flyinpiranha

Member
nib95 said:
Do you actually own GT5 or have you ever played Spec II? I feel I'm getting dragged in to the bait. But I'll try to bail with this.

In this thread, Forza fans argue that an average difference of 1-2fps (and arguably sound effects) is more important than better...

Driving Physics
Handling
AI
Lighting
Effects
Graphics
Car models
Track accuracy
AA

It's quite humorous.
Click to expand...

You know what's stupid is how this whole stupid "59 FPS" thing got brought up. And bunching everybody into "forza fans" ... it's like 1 person. It's not the AVERAGE, it's not that it SOMETIMES LOOKS GOOD (haven't played Spec II so I guess it's 100x better now?) it's because the game had screen tearing in many spots. I have nothing vested in either game. I bought a setup for GT5 and the tearing and frame dips and the crappy smoke when in other cars along with the most jagged shadows since 8 bit days and everything being a rolling start, catch up game, are what took an A+ game down to a B- for me.

And "arguably sound effects" are you fucking serious? You obviously haven't played Forza 4 ... at all.

All those bullet points are fantastic if they were all the time, but they aren't.

I don't speak for "all the Forza fans" that are fighting you in this imaginary war you seem to have created, but it's the INCONSISTENCIES that pushed me away. After getting level 30+ in A-Spec, after grinding days to buy the Ferrari F1, after racing hours upon hours trying to get an X1 ... not after checking out some youtube videos and listening to your "facts" about the game.

With that said, I haven't played Spec II so if they have improved the game so much I might pick it up again (sold the game about 1 month ago).

But holy shit man, your constant "It's only 1 FPS!" is tiring and to be honest, bullshit. If it was constant 59 FPS with no tearing I probably wouldn't even be playing Forza 4 right now.

The screen tearing took me out of the game just like Assassins Creed did, couldn't even finish that game and I am one of the few that enjoyed the first one.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Calm down sunshine! I said arguably sound effects because some people feel that F4's are too exaggerated and that GT5's are actually more accurate to what you hear on non modded cars internally. I personally prefer the extra grunt of F4's sound engine. But it's not necessarily black or white.

And yea, Spec II (and the last few updates) have definitely greatly improved the game's performance (among many other things). No question about it. They weren't terrible before (non weather), but enough to be noticed or a hinderance, now it's at a stage where it's barely noticeable and generally doesn't affect the gameplay experience.
 
F

flyinpiranha

Member
nib95 said:
Calm down sunshine! I said arguably sound effects because some people feel that F4's are too exaggerated and that GT5's are actually more accurate to what you hear on non modded cars internally. I personally prefer the extra grunt of F4's sound engine. But it's not necessarily black or white.

And yea, Spec II (and the last few updates) have definitely greatly improved the game's performance (among many other things). No question about it. They weren't terrible before (non weather), but enough to be noticed or a hinderance, now it's at a stage where it's barely noticeable and generally doesn't affect the gameplay experience.
Click to expand...

Heh, I'm calm sweetness =)

And I probably will check it out, because I actually agree with many about how the game has its moments that are pure driving bliss, but as a continued, play-for-hours game I just couldn't get over some of the glaring oversights. BUT, I did play it mostly at launch and then off and on until about 3 or 4 months ago.

I have enough room for both games in my life (maybe not during this super busy season of games) and I have a sweet setup to take advantage of both so fortunately, unlike many poor souls in this thread ... I get the best of both worlds.
 
T

The Stealth Fox

Junior Member
In order to continue its design philosophy, Forza 4 should steal from Need for Speed: the Run. Forza practically drives itself, all it needs is scripted sequences with avalanches and rocks falling and stuff.

It can then fully appeal to the "epic" and "visceral" crowd with its handholding and canned sequences.

Forza of Duty 5
 
D

Dead Man

Member
NullPointer said:
Take your pick:

Forza 4: Locked 60fps + jaggies
GT5: Mostly 60fps with dips + screen tearing

Both games have annoying IQ issues, but for my own personal bias I prefer less jaggies in my racing games over any tearing issues. I want to see the lines on the road drawn clearly, and the flatter the track the more jaggies add noise to the visuals. Everybody has different tolerances though.
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Yep. I don't really care that the FPS drops a bit, its is the tearing that kills me. Shit gives me a headache!

NullPointer said:
I think in our gearhead/petrolhead hearts we just wish for the one true uber-game.

These games require a significant time (and sometimes monetary) investment to get the best out of them, and it sucks to have to choose between them, or to balance your time across several games that each offer one perfected little slice of the experience.

But at the end of the day the competition is improving all of these games.
Click to expand...
Another great post.
 
B

BoobPhysics101

Banned
The Stealth Fox said:
In order to continue its design philosophy, Forza 4 should steal from Need for Speed: the Run. Forza practically drives itself, all it needs is scripted sequences with avalanches and rocks falling and stuff.

It can then fully appeal to the "epic" and "visceral" crowd with its handholding and canned sequences.

Forza of Duty 5
Click to expand...

What is with this troll bullshit? How does Forza 4 'drive itself'?
 
T

The Stealth Fox

Junior Member
There's two tracks really that can look like GT4 at times: Trial Mountain and Laguna Seca.

All the city and dirt tracks are insane. DAT EIGER NORDWAND


BoobPhysics101 said:
What is with this troll bullshit? How does Forza 4 'drive itself'?
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It's not a steering assist if you don't admit it.

Also you CAN make Forza drive itself. Autobrake re-wind + super steering assist lolz
 
B

BoobPhysics101

Banned
The Stealth Fox said:
It's not a steering assist if you don't admit it.
Also you CAN make Forza drive itself. Autobrake re-wind + super steering assist lolz
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This sounds like such a contrived, pathetic little nitpick. Neither game is truly close to the experience of driving a car on a track anyways. It'll take a lot more than steering assists (or lack thereof) to get you to that experience.

Wow, really, difficulty options tailored for little kids and casual players means you can attack the game? Because the game ALWAYS has those on, right? C'mon.
 
T

The Stealth Fox

Junior Member
BoobPhysics101 said:
This sounds like such a contrived, pathetic little nitpick. Neither game is truly close to the experience of driving a car on a track anyways. It'll take a lot more than steering assists (or lack thereof) to get you to that experience.
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A hidden steering assist is a nitpick and it's excusable in a game that attempts to call itself a simulator?

You know, there are games WITHOUT steering assists out there that allow you to get CLOSER to that experience...
 
B

BoobPhysics101

Banned
The Stealth Fox said:
A hidden steering assist is a nitpick and it's excusable in a game that attempts to call itself a simulator?

You know, there are games WITHOUT steering assists out there that allow you to get CLOSER to that experience...
Click to expand...

And Turn 10 can't patch it out or add a new steering option that's completely unassisted? Seriously, think of something clever.

That's nice, but I'll just take my car again to the track if I want to go beyond 'close'. Arguing over $60 games and their realism is child's play compared to dropping thousands on equipment for the track. Both games are so good that it's really not worth nitpicking, it's fanboy shit, especially when anyone can own and enjoy both. Get over it.
 
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