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[RotBot]

2.35:1 is only "more epic" than 16:9 because most theaters have curtains that open up to widen a 16:9 screen to 2.35:1. So you'll watch the trailers in 16:9, and then the curtains open up and wooo, epic. If a curtain retracted over the top and bottom of a 16:9 screen instead, which is basically what happens on an HDTV, then people would be less enthusiastic about watching a 2.35:1 film in theaters. It's all about presentation and size, not aspect ratio. 1.43:1 is stunning when you're watching it on an IMAX screen, but less so on a TV.

I don't mind watching 2.35:1 movies with black bars, but the "director's intent" argument, while valid for the big difference between framing for 4:3 and any widescreen aspect, is kind of overblown when comparing 2.35:1 to 16:9.

So for your staredown between two characters at the opposite ends of the screen, they'll either have to stand a little closer or we'll see a little bit more of their shirts. And for your closeup of a dude's eyes, we'll see a centimeter more of his brow and nose. Oh no, movie ruined. Say goodbye to your Best Cinematography Oscar.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

Black Bars are a good place for subtitles

I don't know why you all want letters covering your movie

Silly gaffers

 

[hgplayer1]

I just want them to get rid of the bottom black bar.

The top black bar is just covering up the mics and stuff.

The bottom black bar is covering legs and ass. nuff said?

 

[TheExodu5]

Films are shot to be shown in theaters, DVD and BluRay is just a bonus but is not the intended way to view the film.

Well it's a fucking bitch that I can't go see it in theaters past the release right? Fuck the cinema. I have a superior setup at home.

I really don't give a damn what the "intended way to view the film" is. I'll watch it how I want to watch it.

 

[Firestorm]

Black Bars are a good place for subtitles

I don't know why you all want letters covering your movie

Silly gaffers

I hate it when the subtitles go on the black bar or, worse yet, both the picture and black bar. I can block out the black bar in my head pretty easily but not when you put stuff there.

 

[Articate]

I just want them to get rid of the bottom black bar.

The top black bar is just covering up the mics and stuff.

The bottom black bar is covering legs and ass. nuff said?

Yeah.. That's how it works.


The rest of this thread is humerous in that sort of "haha, oh god, please don't be true"-kind of way.


;_;

 

[TheExodu5]

I hate it when the subtitles go on the black bar or, worse yet, both the picture and black bar. I can block out the black bar in my head pretty easily but not when you put stuff there.

Agreed.

Honestly, I don't mind the black bar all that much since I use a projector (so really the black isn't all that noticeable). I just wished I was using the full resolution of the screen, because it's such a waste to lose 25% of the available pixels.

Yeah.. That's how it works.


This thread is humerous in that sort of "haha, oh god, please don't be true"-kind of way.


;_;

It CAN be how it works. There's no reason they can't use a camera with higher vertical fov so that you do see legs and ass.

We know it's not how it currently works (at least not for most movies), but there's no reason they can't adopt to a new standard.

You guys would have been the black & white defense force a few decades ago. Now, all that's left are the 24fps and anti-16:9 defense forces. You're going down!

 

[alr1ght]

Goddamn all of those game developers who don't use all of the available buttons on the controller. I paid for all of them, they must be used.

 

[TheExodu5]

Goddamn all of those game developers who don't use all of the available buttons on the controller. I paid for all of them, they must be used.

If you're going to use an analogy, at least use one that makes sense.

Trust me, if developers made games 2.35:1 claiming that's the way they intend their audience to play it, there'd be an outcry. Hell, developers said the original widescreen FOV in Bioshock was the way it was meant to be played, and everyone bitched.

Just imagine you're watching a 2.35:1 movie. If you could magically remove the black bars on the top and the bottom and see more picture, would you? Or would you rather keep the bars there? As long as I can see more picture...why not?

 

[Rolf NB]

We desperately need elliptic displays, so that everyone can enjoy unused black areas on all four sides of the screen, regardless (or should I say "irregardless") of source aspect ratio.

 

[TheExodu5]

We desperately need elliptic displays, so that everyone can enjoy unused black areas on all four sides of the screen, regardless (or should I say "irregardless") of source aspect ratio.

That would be incredibly cool...and super freaky, especially if it was done at 85+fps.

 

[fernie417]

Man, this thread started out so cool, now it's just depressing. :-(

 

[blackadde]

Just imagine you're watching a 2.35:1 movie. If you could magically remove the black bars on the top and the bottom and see more picture, would you? Or would you rather keep the bars there? As long as I can see more picture...why not?

uh, no? when i paint, i don't deliberately leave as much image as possible. i try to crop out the unnecessary visual glut and leave only the things that matter.

 

[TheExodu5]

uh, no? when i paint, i don't deliberately leave as much image as possible. i try to crop out the unnecessary visual glut and leave only the things that matter.

Then why don't you watch non-action movies in 4:3? There's tons of unneeded visual glut in 2.35:1 movies.

Is there something magical about 2.35:1 that makes it that much better than 16:9? Is it worth sacrificing 25% of our displays? You do realize it costs you money, since you need to buy a bigger display to accomodate the smaller picture, right?

 

[xS1TH L0RDx]

You need to go to mooooono, price dot com
so the picture on your screen won't be as ugly as your mom
Buy an HDMI cable for nearly 15 dollars shipped
So you'll stop making really stupid threads and your TV won't look like shit

OH MY GOD:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

where's the OP? has someone had his news after he experienced HD gaming?

EDIT: oh and i hate when movies are in 2.35:1. it even turns me off on the purchase of a blu-ray if i know it's going to half fill my screen.

 

[blackadde]

Then why don't you watch non-action movies in 4:3? There's tons of unneeded visual glut in 2.35:1 movies.

Is there something magical about 2.35:1 that makes it that much better than 16:9? Is it worth sacrificing 25% of our displays? You do realize it costs you money, since you need to buy a bigger display to accomodate the smaller picture, right?

let me put it this way. not everyone paints, but everyone has taken a picture. do you ALWAYS zoom out as far as possible? no, of course not. you select areas of interest and hilight them with your framing. these are conscious design choices, and not something to be dicked around with by the viewer. i'm not concerned with the size of the display at all - it really doesn't matter nearly as much as well considered framing by the cinematographer.

plenty of great kurosawa epics have been done in 4:3, just as plenty of visually amazing films have been done in 2.35:1. it's not a technical decision, it's a design one.

 

[faceless007]

Spider-Man 1 was shot in 1.85. Raimi was originally going to shoot Spider-Man 2 the same way, but in pre-production he realized that he needed more room to put Spidey and Doc Ock's tentacles in the same shot, so he switched to 2.35.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

there should be wider widescreen tvs with movable hardcover side pannels

 

[faceless007]

You guys would have been the black & white defense force a few decades ago. Now, all that's left are the 24fps and anti-16:9 defense forces. You're going down!

Right because the only reason movies were black and white was because directors were snobs. It had nothing to do with the fact that color film hadn't been invented yet.

 

[54-46!]

I've got a similar problem with my PAL PS2 and one of my TVs, I use a RGB scart cable so that I can play NTSC games and normally it works just fine but recently I got a hold of a bigger TV - problem is it displays NTSC games in 16:9 and not in 4:3, PAL games work though.

I've tried this cable on four other TVs and it worked fine but not on this one and it's the newest one yet, I can't mess with the settings on the TV cause I havn't got the remote. All the TVs I've tested it with are SDTV 4:3.

Any ideas?

 

[Articate]

Just imagine you're watching a 2.35:1 movie. If you could magically remove the black bars on the top and the bottom and see more picture, would you? Or would you rather keep the bars there? As long as I can see more picture...why not?

I think of it like using the EQ to boost the bass in a music player because your speakers lack bass. Or even just because you like more bass. I never colour the music I listen to because I think 'this is how the artist made it, and it's his music'.

I also felt iffy playing Twilight Princess on the Wii since it was intended to be the mirrored version.



But yeah, I wouldn't mind it if it took up the entire screen, but I never think about it anyway if it doesn't. And I certainly don't start stretching to 'get the most out of my TV'.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I just want them to get rid of the bottom black bar.

The top black bar is just covering up the mics and stuff.

The bottom black bar is covering legs and ass. nuff said?

But if the film was shot with an anamorphic lens then nothing is being covered by the bar. Then by making a 16:9 version they have to chop the sides.

This thread and about 90% of the responses in it show just how idiotic most of the world is when it comes to film and movies. Go ahead, zoom in on your 16:9 tv and remove those bars and part of the picture. But DO NOT let your dumb ass way of thinking fuck it up for the people out there that want things the way they were originally made or intended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3nPEoJfQak

 

[Burger]

On the other end of the spectrum...

I went to a friends place the other day, he said "You've got to check out this game!" (It was deadspace).

He had a small, 32" widescreen LCD, with the PS3 hooked up via composite, but it was set up as a 4:3 TV, so the picture was matted out with black bars, so he was playing it in a sort of faux cinemascope.

I said "You've got your TV set up wrong, it shouldn't have those black bars you dolt". He replied with "Na I like the black bars" So I just thought fuck it and left it alone.

Some people....

 

[tekumseh]

I knew there was a low intelligence threshold on NeoGAF (system war threads show that) but this thread just takes it all to biblical proportions.

This thread has served, however, to shine a light on all the GAF WalMart shoppers....

 

[Rolf NB]

there should be wider widescreen tvs with movable hardcover side pannels

Curtains. The ultimate theatric experience. At home.
Also repels popcorn.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Curtains. The ultimate theatric experience. At home.
Also repels popcorn.

YES! all we need now are 2 tvs taped togehter for epic 2.81:1 , and with the two hdmi ports of the ps3 ....wait.... ahhh god damn...

I actually watched 2.35:1 movies across two 5:4 computer screens. That is sexy. if you can neglect the >1mm crack down the middle.

dont do this - black bars are one thing but a crack in the middle of the screen in unholy!

 

[Articate]

YES! all we need now are 2 tvs taped togehter for epic 2.81:1 , and with the two hdmi ports of the ps3 ....wait.... ahhh god damn...

I actually watched 2.35:1 movies across two 5:4 computer screens. That is sexy. if you can neglect the >1mm crack down the middle.

 

[Tathanen]

On the other end of the spectrum...

I went to a friends place the other day, he said "You've got to check out this game!" (It was deadspace).

He had a small, 32" widescreen LCD, with the PS3 hooked up via composite, but it was set up as a 4:3 TV, so the picture was matted out with black bars, so he was playing it in a sort of faux cinemascope.

I said "You've got your TV set up wrong, it shouldn't have those black bars you dolt". He replied with "Na I like the black bars" So I just thought fuck it and left it alone.

Some people....

I used to always watch the HD cable channels letterboxed on my 4:3 480p CRT. And I almost played Twilight Princess the same way on that set. Sure, it's vertically smaller, but it's more image!

Honestly when I get a movie on my widescreen set these days, if I don't have black bars I feel almost jipped. I'm so used to the bars that instead of thinking "yay my screen is full" I think "dag they could've put more stuff in the picture otherwise." The letterbox-aesthetic has been definitively paired with cinema in my mind. It's something you don't get with normal TV shows or games. I don't ever think "dag, it's shorter," I think, "woo, it's wider." I was pretty shocked and excited when Universal HD showed Star Trek: First Contact in 2.35:1 the other day.

Give me "more image" over "less image but larger" any day. ANY day.

 

[Zoe]

Ever since I switched to a widescreen TV (used to have a 4:3 HDTV), I don't even notice the black bars. The border of the TV is black, so any extra bars just blend in.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

I only watch phenotoscope and kinetoscope from 1845-1895, the way the charlatan intended, hooked up through my Monster XFQVGA 2056.4x1603.3 HDMI voodoo bullshit cable into my Sony Star Chamber 80 inch Plato's Cave HDTV. Of course I have to set the contrast to 1 and the lumens to 0 like a FUCKING CAVEMAN but I suppose until I upgrade to to Zarathustra-Ray and its awesome.. frankly -fucking awesome- .. increase in pixels, I should just make do with these idiotic lowly images. Susan Sontag just called and she said she was going to kill me.

No, seriously, what the hell.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

This thread has served, however, to shine a light on all the GAF WalMart shoppers....

OUCH. Damn...now I am mad I didnt think of that one first. Good show man!

 

[Articate]

Ever since I switched to a widescreen TV (used to have a 4:3 HDTV), I don't even notice the black bars. The border of the TV is black, so any extra bars just blend in.

Yeah, my HDTV has 50,000:1 contrast, so the black bars look like a part of the TV's frame.

Same goes with framerate...anything that's not 24fps "doesn't look filmlike". Once you adjust to a newer standard, you wouldn't care to go back to the old one.

So, I suppose you also hate the director of Lost In Translation, for using film instead of digital HD cameras? Her saying "film has much more athmosphere in it" should be thrown away and be replaced a 1080p product with 60 fps? (or do you suggest 85 fps for periferal vision's sake?)

Have you seen a movie in 60 fps vs 24? I can't use the 100Hz Motion Plus on my telly because my head associates 50 fps with 24 fps film doubled. Especially when watching older things. doubling 24 fps is what they'd do in, say, MacGyver to make a car case seem high-speed when they're actually on a sunday stroll. So my head reckognizes that and goes "aha, they sped it up". So it really fucks with my head when it's +50 fps.

 

[kurosawa]

it's very disturbing to read almost everyone defining movies by aspect ratio and framerate instead of the quality of the movie itself. Is is really all you care about? Do you hate Casablanca for being 4:3 and black and white? Jesus, chill out!

 

[Articate]

it's very disturbing to read almost everyone defining movies by aspect ratio and framerate instead of the quality of the movie itself. Is is really all you care about? Do you hate Casablanca for being 4:3 and black and white? Jesus, chill out!

In all fairness, you don't discuss what music band is the best when you're talking about the weather. This thread is about aspect ratios and TVs. Not about movies.

 

[kurosawa]

when someone says directors must make movies 1.85, full color and 5.1 I presume, you're not just talking about techinal things... you're trying to influence what movies should be like.

 

[Dead Man]

For things already filmed, you should try to watch them in their original aspect ratio. For things yet to be filmed, I wish directors/producers/cinematographers would film the shits in 16:9 to fit my damn TV!!

That said, black bars are not the end of the world, it just seems silly to produce something you know will be seen on more tv's than cinema screens that is not optimised for the smaller screen.

 

[NameGenerated]

Coincidentally, two films that are 2.35:1 aspect ratio.

I knew there was a low intelligence threshold on NeoGAF (system war threads show that) but this thread just takes it all to biblical proportions.

When I watch a 2.35 movie at home you know what I watch? I watch the film, not the black bars. If your brain cant process that you should be watching the film instead of the black strips that never move, then maybe you need to get something checked at the doctor.

Do you not realize that I understand films are filmed in a ratio that is not 16:9? Yes, it works fine in a movie theater, but not everyone goes to see movies in the theater. I got The Dark Knight on Blu-ray this Christmas, I watched it, it was awesome. I can deal with the black bars but they still annoy me. The bank scene and chase scene, both filmed for whatever Imax's resolution is looked fucking unbelievable. Obviously the movie would be insanely expensive if it was all filmed like that, but why cant they film it in that resolution, one that takes up my entire TV? It doesn't need to be Imax quality but I imagine it could still use the 16:9 resolution.

 

[Articate]

when someone says directors must make movies 1.85, full color and 5.1 I presume, you're not just talking about techinal things... you're trying to influence what movies should be like.

I love the director of Lost in Tranlation for sticking to film. She made a concious choice, and it rocked.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I can NOT believe, and I've "dropped in" on this thread a couple of times over the past day or so, that there is still a debate going on about whether or not movies should be shot in 16:9. Jesus.

Somewhere a cinematographer just died.

 

[EricDiesel]

This thread is horrifying in so many ways. OP are you colorblind or something? That's the only excuse I can think of for not noticing the difference between SD and HD, and even then it's a stretch. I'm no videophile, but I think SD on an LCD looks like blurry garbage. It doesn't really show up too obviously in still pictures, but in motion you get all sorts of ghosting.

This reminds me of one time in high school when we were going to watch Monsters Inc. and a girl in my class wanted fullscreen because she didn't want to have the black bars covering the movie. How anyone that goes to theaters can think 4:3 is even close to the native ratio is beyond me.

And as for this movie aspect ratio debate... No comment.

 

[DDayton]

This thread is horrifying in so many ways. OP are you colorblind or something? That's the only excuse I can think of for not noticing the difference between SD and HD, and even then it's a stretch./QUOTE]

... colorblindness has no bearing on any of this discussion.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

it's very disturbing to read almost everyone defining movies by aspect ratio and framerate instead of the quality of the movie itself. Is is really all you care about? Do you hate Casablanca for being 4:3 and black and white? Jesus, chill out!

Exactly. And coming from the man named Kurosawa, who made Seven Samurai, which is only 4:3 and black and white. And totally bad ass. I use the argument for ratio against the morons who hate the movies for having black bars. A good movie is a good movie, no matter what ratio its in.

Do you not realize that I understand films are filmed in a ratio that is not 16:9? Yes, it works fine in a movie theater, but not everyone goes to see movies in the theater. I got The Dark Knight on Blu-ray this Christmas, I watched it, it was awesome. I can deal with the black bars but they still annoy me. The bank scene and chase scene, both filmed for whatever Imax's resolution is looked fucking unbelievable. Obviously the movie would be insanely expensive if it was all filmed like that, but why cant they film it in that resolution, one that takes up my entire TV? It doesn't need to be Imax quality but I imagine it could still use the 16:9 resolution.

And you know that on a 16:9 screen you are missing part of the IMAX image still? They cropped the top and bottom since IMAX is a 1.44 ratio standard. But the image was still framed with 2.35 in mind for regular theaters. Opening the frame on 16:9 is the closest they could come to mimicing the IMAX presentation.

 

[Zoe]

... colorblindness has no bearing on any of this discussion.

HD has a wider color palette than SD. That's probably what he was thinking of.

 

[NameGenerated]

And you know that on a 16:9 screen you are missing part of the IMAX image still? They cropped the top and bottom since IMAX is a 1.44 ratio standard. But the image was still framed with 2.35 in mind for regular theaters. Opening the frame on 16:9 is the closest they could come to mimicing the IMAX presentation.

Whatever gets rid of the black bars is fine with me.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

And you know that on a 16:9 screen you are missing part of the IMAX image still? They cropped the top and bottom since IMAX is a 1.44 ratio standard. But the image was still framed with 2.35 in mind for regular theaters. Opening the frame on 16:9 is the closest they could come to mimicing the IMAX presentation.

Which makes the Dark Knight Blu Ray release interesting: It actually says 1.78:1 on IMAX scenes, with 2.4:1 for other scenes.

 

[ithorien]

Which makes the Dark Knight Blu Ray release interesting: It actually says 1.78:1 on IMAX scenes, with 2.4:1 for other scenes.

I was a bit confused by what they ended up doing with the home releases. Blu-ray takes the theatrical release and does the best it can for a 16:9 TV with it. Meanwhile, the DVD just shows the entire movie in 2.4:1.

I get that DVD is crappy in comparison, but why wouldn't they just do the same thing...

 

[Tntnnbltn]

That said, black bars are not the end of the world, it just seems silly to produce something you know will be seen on more tv's than cinema screens that is not optimised for the smaller screen.

idahoblue
Supporting the Lowest Common Denominator since 2008
(Today, 07:50 AM)

 

[suffah]

Exactly. And coming from the man named Kurosawa, who made Seven Samurai, which is only 4:3 and black and white. And totally bad ass. I use the argument for ratio against the morons who hate the movies for having black bars. A good movie is a good movie, no matter what ratio its in.

Uh, that's not what we're arguing. What if they released Seven Samurai in fucking color and cropped that shit to 16:9 so it would fit our widescreen tv's. That's the issue we have. Leave the original film the way it was shot.

 

[Dead Man]

idahoblue
Supporting the Lowest Common Denominator since 2008
(Today, 07:50 AM)

:lol
Nice one. But really, why not in this case? If you are arguing that cinema format is best because it is cinema format, that makes no sense. Frame your media for the format it will be viewed in by the most people.

If you are seriously making the argument that 2.35 is the artists vision, why would they even present it in anything but that ratio? There should not even be an option except to watch it in a cinema.

What if someone wanted to create extra extra extra widescreen, so it became truly panoramic, with 180 degrees of vision? Should that then be the default format for ALL media just because it is the most 'epic'?

There has to be a best compromise for aspect ratio, preserving the most action, without requiring huge screens to make out the detail. 2.35:1 might be it. But everyone has a 16:9 tv, or will soon, because that is what is sold now. 1.85:1 seems like a good middle ground.

But hey, it doesn't really affect me, since I have a decent tv. It does bother me when people stretch images to get rid of black bars. But it also cracks me up when purists go on about 'wider is better'. That mantra will lead to a screen 4 feet high and 30 feet wide. Ludicrous? Yes. But that is what the wideness for the sake of extra viewing space leads to.

tl:dr: Who cares? People will watch how they watch. But why not format it for that?

Edit: And lets be clear. If something has already been shot in a certain aspect ratio, you should make every effort to watch it in that ratio. My comments are only in regards to future productions.