Support NeoGAF

[angular graphics]

This is why the next Half-Life game is taking a while:

1. Previous game ended with a cliffhanger that poses tough challenges for the next game thematically and narrative wise.

2. Significant Gameplay concerns. Most of the people assume Ep3 would have introduced the ASHPD gun into the HL world which would mean drastic changes in AI and design.

3. From here to there, a lot of time passed so an 'Episode' release won't do and the next HL game would have to be a marque release.

4. During that time the Source engine has aged and work on Source 2 begun. I wouldn't have wanted Ep3 to have been released in 2013 or 2012 if that meant using the old engine while the new one is being made.

5. VR tech is maturing. You want great SP experiences? VR is going to push the bar up for that. VR is best for solitary experiences and getting drawn in vast worlds. Valve are pushing it hard. I doubt it's going to be used solely for games like Dota or L4D. VR is the next step so you might as well incorporate it into the next HL as a FPS built from the ground up to use VR that will usher in the era of VR.

1. Sort of. Marc Laidlaw said writing is not an issue. Infusing the writing to gameplay etc, yeah. http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28753574&postcount=2

2. Yes. Gabe Newell said Ep3 would have gameplay stuff never before seen which surpassed even the Portal gun.

GK: Episode 3, what do we know about it? What can you tell us?

Gabe: From our point of view there's enough new-ness in there that we sorta want to spring it on people and say here is a bunch of things you've never seen before. And have multiple of those.

GK: And that is graphically or gameplay or?

Gabe: There is stuff visually that hasn't been in games before, certainly a bunch of game elements on the border of portal that hasn't been done before.

GK: So even better than the portal gun?

Gabe: Oh yeah.

GK: New game-play para-dimes

GN: Uh-huh.

3. Yes.

4. Yes. Newell implied the new engine allows them to do stuff they couldn't do before. http://kotaku.com/5966860/gabe-newell-living-room-pcs-will-compete-with-next+gen-consoles

I also asked Newell what sort of software they're working on these days. He wouldn't give specifics, but he did reiterate that they're working on their next-generation engine—which he said will work with next-generation consoles as well.

"Hopefully that's gonna give us some interesting opportunities on the game side,"

5. I think an SP game like HL is a better fit to showcase VR than a fast paced MP game like L4D or one that you are playing sort of competitively like CS, Dota 2. So I agree.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

When a huge portion (ive argued in the past more than half) of your catalog is made up of such things then yes i think you are eligible for having a long storied history of absorbing studios, tech, and ideas.

I never cease to be amused at how so many people think this is a bad thing.

Oh no, Valve has offered talented young devs with great ideas a budget and studio position to die for! The horror!

Makes no sense.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

you made Valve what it is, now deal with being a stepping stone, suckers

 

[water_wendi]

I never cease to be amused at how so many people think this is a bad thing.

Oh no, Valve has offered talented young devs with great ideas a budget and studio position to die for! The horror!

Makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. When you have a company bereft of ideas but with a surplus of money their strategy is to take an emerging technology, buy it out, and stamp their name on it. Whether its Frontpage or Team Fortress the effect is the same.

 

[Joeki11a]

I still remember his PS E3 appearance lol

 

[eliochip]

I hope they release HL3 as an audio drama

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

It makes perfect sense. When you have a company bereft of ideas but with a surplus of money their strategy is to take an emerging technology, buy it out, and stamp their name on it. Whether its Frontpage or Team Fortress the effect is the same.

I see. So in other wonders, the entire concept of how talent recruitment works is completely lost to you.

 

[angular graphics]

I hope they release HL3 as an audio drama

But fans would fight endlessly about who would voice Gordon the best!

 

[Sibylus]

But fans would fight endlessly about who would voice Gordon the best!

Hah, voice. His voice is foley sounds.

 

[Armaros]

I see. So in other wonders, the entire concept of how talent recruitment works is completely lost to you.

No, they weren't suppose to give funding or hire any of the modders or small time developers that they saw had something interesting.

If it means to futher his anti-valve stance, he would rather not have games like TF, CS, Portal be funded and developed by Valve, or say they had nothing to do with it and are just a money grubbing company to take unproven developers and make a fully packaged game out of their ideas.

The games obviously would be as great a quality as we see them now if Valve never got involved.

 

[water_wendi]

I see. So in other wonders, the entire concept of how talent recruitment works is completely lost to you.

i didnt sit well with me when Microsoft does it. Why should it be any different when Valve does the same?

edit: i would be more open to the idea if the original artists where given top billing (or even billing at all in some cases). As it usually is where a large company buys out smaller companies with fresh ideas and then makes them Company X's ideas "Thanks Company X! You are awesome!" Yea.. i will never stand for that.

 

[Armaros]

i didnt sit well with me when Microsoft does it. Why should it be any different when Valve does the same?

Sorta because you have no idea how the industry works I am guessing?

 

[Deleted member 22576]

i didnt sit well with me when Microsoft does it. Why should it be any different when Valve does the same?

Valve is a different company than Microsoft. You're comparing an example of the most bureaucratic clusterfuck of a corporation that competes against itself interanally with an extremely modern company that uses a progressive wholly unique management structure to decide its destiny.

Thats why its different.

edit: i would be more open to the idea if the original artists where given top billing (or even billing at all in some cases). As it usually is where a large company buys out smaller companies with fresh ideas and then makes them Company X's ideas "Thanks Company X! You are awesome!" Yea.. i will never stand for that.

No. More than one person makes a videogame. It takes money and time to make a videogame. Just because 4 young hotshots make a sick demo doesn't mean they have the resources expertise ability and manpower to make the next portal.

 

[water_wendi]

Sorta because you have no idea how the industry works I am guessing?

i know how it works but i tend not to give certain other companies passes for partaking in the same behavior.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Sorta because you have no idea how the industry works I am guessing?

That's becoming increasingly clear with every post

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

i didnt sit well with me when Microsoft does it. Why should it be any different when Valve does the same?

Microsoft gobbling up multi-billion dollar companies is quite a bit different to Valve hiring small companies or groups of developers with demonstrable talent and fresh ideas.

edit: i would be more open to the idea if the original artists where given top billing (or even billing at all in some cases). As it usually is where a large company buys out smaller companies with fresh ideas and then makes them Company X's ideas "Thanks Company X! You are awesome!" Yea.. i will never stand for that.

More complete bullshit. Valve is transparent as all hell when it comes to crediting the origins of their new IP. Just look at pre-release interviews for Portal, L4D and DOTA2.

 

[water_wendi]

Valve is a different company than Microsoft. You're comparing an example of the most bureaucratic clusterfuck of a corporation that competes against itself interanally with an extremely modern company that uses a progressive wholly unique management structure to decide its destiny.

Thats why its different.

Are they now? Because im reminded of many of the same tactics from 80s/80s Microsoft as Valve.

]No. More than one person makes a videogame. It takes money and time to make a videogame. Just because 4 young hotshots make a sick demo doesn't mean they have the resources expertise ability and manpower to make the next portal.

And i believe that if you fund the development of such a game you should give credit where it counts and not just absorb it entirely. Youll never see me defend this when EA does it and youll never see me defend it when Valve does it.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

You're acting crazy, Water Wendi! Crazy!

AAnd i believe that if you fund the development of such a game you should give credit where it counts and not just absorb it entirely. Youll never see me defend this when EA does it and youll never see me defend it when Valve does it.

This is just so laughably ignorant!

 

[angular graphics]

i didnt sit well with me when Microsoft does it. Why should it be any different when Valve does the same?

edit: i would be more open to the idea if the original artists where given top billing (or even billing at all in some cases). As it usually is where a large company buys out smaller companies with fresh ideas and then makes them Company X's ideas "Thanks Company X! You are awesome!" Yea.. i will never stand for that.

Valve's games, no matter if they are made by 2 or 100 guys, credit the entire company personnel (regardless of whether they have worked on the game or not or whether they work on games at all!) in alphabetical order and with no titles given to the names.

Outside of the games themselves, Valve have been more than happy to talk about eg how they hired the Narbacular Drop kids to make a real game.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

And i believe that if you fund the development of such a game you should give credit where it counts and not just absorb it entirely. Youll never see me defend this when EA does it and youll never see me defend it when Valve does it.

Google "dota2 gabe interview" and this is the first result. Right off the bat the head of the company explains how they developed DOTA2 because they became interested in what Icefrog had created, and decided to bring him on board.

If I were so inclined, I could find plenty of other interviews where Valve employees refer to the origins of DOTA2 and it's creators, or where Valve employees would mention Turtle Rock studios about 50 times in interviews on L4D when it was shown at various shows such as E3, or where Valve employees would refer to the now famous Narbacular Drop presentation that landed the Portal creators jobs at Valve.

There are other, considerably more justifiable reasons to take up issue with Valve, but this is most certainly not one of them. However, it is evident that this overwhelming evidence is unlikely to change your Valve hating stance, so I'm not going to bother finding anymore.

 

[water_wendi]

Valve's games, no matter if they are made by 2 or 100 guys, credit the entire company personnel (regardless of whether they have worked on the game or not or whether they work on games at all!) in alphabetical order and with no titles given to the names.

Outside of the games themselves, Valve have been more than happy to talk about eg how they hired the Narbacular Drop kids to make a real game.

The Narbacular Drop people are no longer Nuclear Money but instead Valve software. And for the majority of the people Nuclear Monkey never even existed. To most Portal sprung forth from Valves forehead fully formed. As an artist i find this completely offensive. Who remembers Spyglass Inc? Nobody.

 

[Armaros]

Google "dota2 gabe interview" and this is the first result. Right off the bat the head of the company explains how they developed DOTA2 because they became interested in what Icefrog had created, and decided to bring him on board.

If I were so inclined, I could find plenty of other interviews where Valve employees refer to the origins of DOTA2 and it's creators, or where Valve employees would mention Turtle Rock studios about 50 times in interviews on L4D when it was shown at various shows such as E3, or where Valve employees would refer to the now famous Narbacular Drop presentation that landed the Portal creators jobs at Valve.

There are other, considerably more justifiable reasons to take up issue with Valve, but this is most certainly not one of them. However, it is evident that this overwhelming evidence is unlikely to change your Valve hating stance, so I'm not going to bother finding anymore.

Its amazing the company that has a majority of their well known and popular games beyond HL, are all from hiring small-time up and coming devs and modders to make fully realized commercial games is being compared to EA or MS.

The Narbacular Drop people are no longer Nuclear Money but instead Valve software. And for the majority of the people Nuclear Monkey never even existed. To most Portal sprung forth from Valves forehead fully formed. As an artist i find this completely offensive. Who remembers Spyglass Inc? Nobody.

This shows you have zero experience or knowledge about anything related to the development of software, and not just games.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

The Narbacular Drop people are no longer Nuclear Money but instead Valve software. And for the majority of the people Nuclear Monkey never even existed. To most Portal sprung forth from Valves forehead fully formed. As an artist i find this completely offensive. Who remembers Spyglass Inc? Nobody.

Are you really trying to imply Kim Swift et all isn't/aren't a monolithic name in our community? Really?

This shows you have zero experience or knowledge about anything related to the development of software, and not just games.

This too, but we've already established that.

 

[angular graphics]

The Narbacular Drop people are no longer Nuclear Money but instead Valve software. And for the majority of the people Nuclear Monkey never even existed. To most Portal sprung forth from Valves forehead fully formed. As an artist i find this completely offensive. Who remembers Spyglass Inc? Nobody.

And?! Why would you expect otherwise?! I'm struggling to understand you.

These people weren't hired to make one game, they were hired to become part of Valve. Since they joined Valve, they became part of Valve and the company they work for is called Valve.

Did Valve demand HPE to change their name to "Valve" just because they were funded by them to co-create CS:GO? No.

 

[Sibylus]

Pretty sure people still remember Robin Walker as existing outside of Valve once upon a time. Ditto CS guy (and his later failed successor game).

 

[angular graphics]

Pretty sure people still remember Robin Walker as existing outside of Valve once upon a time. Ditto CS guy (and his later failed successor game).

Both CS guys. And Icefrog and Eul.

 

[SamVimes]

The Narbacular Drop people are no longer Nuclear Money but instead Valve software. And for the majority of the people Nuclear Monkey never even existed. To most Portal sprung forth from Valves forehead fully formed. As an artist i find this completely offensive. Who remembers Spyglass Inc? Nobody.

You're approaching this like if Coca Cola bought Picasso and made him sign all of his paintings Coca Cola, software development is completely different.

 

[Sibylus]

Both CS guys. And Icefrog and Eul.

Indeed.

As yet unmolested.

 

[Armaros]

Both CS guys. And Icefrog and Eul.

Anything game related in Dota, and the community first reaction is Icefrog, not Valve, Valve only comes into play for the community regarding the service side of the equation.

 

[Prophet Steve]

The Narbacular Drop people are no longer Nuclear Money but instead Valve software. And for the majority of the people Nuclear Monkey never even existed. To most Portal sprung forth from Valves forehead fully formed. As an artist i find this completely offensive. Who remembers Spyglass Inc? Nobody.

They are Valve now, that was their choice. It is not like Valve hasn't done anything on the game. Everyone has been credited.

 

[water_wendi]

Are you really trying to imply Kim Swift et all isn't/aren't a monolithic name in our community? Really?

They and their ideas werent bought out for charity. It was because Valve saw the potential for a money making endeavor and moved in. If Valve wasnt in the picture we could have had another major developer come of it. Would Kim Swift be a larger name if she and her team did a Portal on their own? Its a what-if scenario but i would go with "yes."

 

[Armaros]

They and their ideas werent bought out for charity. It was because Valve saw the potential for a money making endeavor and moved in. If Valve wasnt in the picture we could have had another major developer come of it. Would Kim Swift be a larger name if she and her team did a Portal on their own? Its a what-if scenario but i would go with "yes."

Yes Portal would have been as well-received and had its atmosphere without Valve's polish and stable of Voice actors.

You think GLADoS would have been as important without the Voice Actor?

 

[Newblade]

They and their ideas werent bought out for charity. It was because Valve saw the potential for a money making endeavor and moved in. If Valve wasnt in the picture we could have had another major developer come of it. Would Kim Swift be a larger name if she and her team did a Portal on their own? Its a what-if scenario but i would go with "yes."

Portal wouldn't have existed.

 

[DrPreston]

...there's never been a commercial successful multi-player game.

Bullshit. Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament were wildly successful around the same time Half-Life 1 came out.

 

[water_wendi]

Portal wouldn't have existed.

More importantly, to me, Portal wouldnt have existed without Narbacular Drop.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

They and their ideas werent bought out for charity. It was because Valve saw the potential for a money making endeavor and moved in. If Valve wasnt in the picture we could have had another major developer come of it. Would Kim Swift be a larger name if she and her team did a Portal on their own? Its a what-if scenario but i would go with "yes."

You are so utterly ignorant of how software development works it's mind-boggling.

It was because Valve saw the potential for a money making endeavor and moved in.

They hired them for their ideas and talent. A company like Valve doesn't do things "for charity". What planet are you living on?

If Valve wasnt in the picture we could have had another major developer come of it.

I'm curious to know which dev/pub you think would be willing to provide the Narbacular Drop kids with the money and resources they got to make Portal.

Would Kim Swift be a larger name if she and her team did a Portal on their own? Its a what-if scenario but i would go with "yes."

Despite the fact you haven't a single shred of evidence and are wildly underestimating the marketing push you would get from working with Valve alone.

Edit:

More importantly, to me, Portal wouldnt have existed without Narbacular Drop.

Show once, just once, where Valve ever disputed this. Just once.

 

[Dictator93]

I'm just being snappy, I apologize.

I'm saying in general it's a few key members. Dota was 1 guy (Icefrog, they already had hired Eul a while before they ever started the project), portal was like 5 students, I don't remember how many people TF had but it basically had 2 important people (John Cook, Robin Walker), Counter strike was 2 dudes. You apparently already know about L4D and CS GO (Turtle Rock never really incorporated into Valve fully, spun off into "Valve south" and later they let them go re-make the company and are now with take two after thq went out. CSGO's initial development was helped in the beginning by Hidden Path, in no way owned by or acquired by Valve, but they have helped with some projects in the past).

They're not some sort of giant pac man company gobbling up other studios after they see a product they like. That would be EA or Activision.

tl dr

this


has never really happened and isnt indicative of a norm at all unless you count two dudes in their basement modding quake as a studio

I still see them as "buying ideas" rather than fostering them to a certain degree. BUt you do have a point, they are far from an EA like business slime company thing.

But I am not sure if EA buys game companies and ideas... but more like... homogenizes companies based upon market research and focus testing. Hence why Visceral turned out the way it did. They could have easily made an amazing game after DS1...

 

[angular graphics]

Portal wouldn't have existed.

Take a look at the writing Valve did on Portal and the writing the kids did on Narbacular Drop and Airtight Games did on Quantum Conundrum.

I don't know if the game would have been made, but it's safe to say it wouldn't be Portal.

 

[Armaros]

More importantly, to me, Portal wouldnt have existed without Narbacular Drop.

No, without Valve's money and development experience, and writers and their stable of Voice Actors, Portal as you know it will not have existed.

I see your problem, you think they just bought the name of the company and slapped Valve on the front. You insult each and every single high caliber developer that work on Portal that was at Valve.

 

[water_wendi]

No, without Valve's money and development experience, and writers and their stable of Voice Actors, Portal as you know it will not have existed.

I see your problem, you think they just bought the name of the company and slapped Valve on the front. You insult each and every single high caliber developer that work on Portal that was at Valve.

Whether Nuclear Monkey Software could have been another Valve or id is up for debate but if Narbacular Drop and their team didnt exist then Valve would have never dreamed of creating Portal. This is an indisputable fact and not a what-if scenario.

 

[angular graphics]

More importantly, to me, Portal wouldnt have existed without Narbacular Drop.

And Narbacular Drop wouldn't have existed if there hasn't been for Digipen. No?

 

[water_wendi]

And Narbacular Drop wouldn't have existed if there hasn't been for Digipen. No?

Did they buy the idea for Narbacular Drop from DigiPen?

 

[Armaros]

Whether Nuclear Monkey Software could have been another Valve or id is up for debate but if Narbacular Drop and their team didnt exist then Valve would have never dreamed of creating Portal. This is an indisputable fact and not a what-if scenario.

And yet you still haven't provided evidence that Valve 'buried' their accomplishments. As if it isn't widely known in the industry that the idea for Portal came from modder/students.

You raise them on a persistent (no matter how warranted) but then slap down any contribution with a company because all companies are pure evil apparently.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Whether Nuclear Monkey Software could have been another Valve or id is up for debate but if Narbacular Drop and their team didnt exist then Valve would have never dreamed of creating Portal. This is an indisputable fact and not a what-if scenario.

Nobody is disagreeing with this and this has absolutely nothing to do with your argument, but whatever, keep digging I guess.

 

[angular graphics]

Did they buy the idea for Narbacular Drop from Didipen?

Oh wait so it's only about the idea now? What if only 1 of the kids came up with the idea and the rest just did the coding? I thought you valued the whole "company" the kids had not just those that came up with the idea?

And no they didn't buy their idea, they bought their skills. They paid to learn them. According to your logic Digipen deserves all the credit. Had there not been for them, Narbacular Drop wouldn't have been made. And that's a fact.

 

[dragonbane]

I want Half Life 3....

 

[water_wendi]

And yet you still haven't provided evidence that Valve 'buried' their accomplishments. As if it isn't widely known in the industry that the idea for Portal came from modder/students.

You raise them on a persistent (no matter how warranted) but then slap down any contribution with a company because all companies are pure evil apparently.

Point out on this box where Nuclear Monkey is credited or Narbacular Drop is even mentioned.

Not even a "Remember Wasteland?" tribute. The word Valve appears on the box almost as much as the word Portal.

Nobody is disagreeing with this and this has absolutely nothing to do with your argument, but whatever, keep digging I guess.

Seems to me that people are disagreeing with this assessment. That Narbacular Drop was uplifted to the masses by the graces of Valve seems to be a reasonably popular notion.

Oh wait so it's only about the idea now? What if only 1 of the kids came up with the idea and the rest just did the coding? I thought you valued the whole "company" the kids had not just those that came up with the idea?

And no they didn't buy their idea, they bought their skills. They paid to learn them. According to your logic Digipen deserves all the credit. Had there not been for them, Narbacular Drop wouldn't have been made. And that's a fact.

No they bought their idea. The bought them outright because they came up with a cracking idea and any further ideas would be Valves ideas.

 

[Aegus]

Oh wait so it's only about the idea now? What if only 1 of the kids came up with the idea and the rest just did the coding? I thought you valued the whole "company" the kids had not just those that came up with the idea?

And no they didn't buy their idea, they bought their skills. They paid to learn them. According to your logic Digipen deserves all the credit. Had there not been for them, Narbacular Drop wouldn't have been made. And that's a fact.

I believe the credit should be given to the first pieces of slime to come crawling out of the ocean billions of years ago.

 

[RoadHazard]

Valve is basically just "the company that runs Steam" to me these days. Portal 2 was the last game they made that I was interested in.

 

[angular graphics]

I rest my case.