harrypmgaga
Member
Again, that's totally not what he said by that.
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Gabe: Singleplayer games are like a film where your lead actor is retarded & autistic
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Again, that's totally not what he said by that.
you spent a lot of words and still managed to miss the mark. Congrats
it's called making a tasteless joke about a foreign country, something a certain other country is well versed at. Maybe Yanis Varoufakis doesn't give a fuck but it's still a tasteless joke
NoirVisage
Banned
that's word,
i would like this explained as well.
That they can't interact with other people as 'normal' people can. Tbh, if I saw someone rolling in a circle around someone trying to talk to them or jumping around in a room while waiting for something, I'd expect that they're missing something from their mental faculties.
e: those sonicmj1 posts explained it way better than I did.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Did you even read it? He was talking about how the interaction the player has with the game is similiar to being retarded and autistic. He didn't say anything offensive and he wasn't insulting anyone.
flatearthpandas
Member
That's fair, however, I think most people would agree that it would indeed generally be a "bad" thing to make a feature film with a lead actor who is retarded or autistic. That doesn't mean it is bad to be retarded or autistic, just that they may lack certain characteristics that we typically look for in a lead actor.
Even so, I don't think that that is what he was saying. As others have said in the thread already, he was using them as a description for how a lot of silent singleplayer protagonists actually behave because of interface limitations inherent in the games. And that was not necessarily presented as bad, but just as fundamentally different than how players behave and interact in a multiplayer setting.
This hearkens back to an earlier point. If something is indescribable without being offensive, then someone somewhere needs to grow a pair and ease their ears out of their chastity belt. Otherwise our communications devolves into this.
Wickerbasket
Member
Those are good posts that explain the reasoning of why he might have said it, but again, the comments he made completely generalise people with those conditions.
At best, he's being ignorant and, at worst, he's being a dick.
Dlacy13g
Member
You clearly don't get it. His comments imply that speaking to a person who is developmentally challenged or autistic is a bad experience... just the association of those disorders with "issues in game" is in and of itself offensive. If he had said the interaction of the player is similar to talking to a "stupid n*gger" would you not be offended? There is no difference here...his comments are straight up offensive in both the tone and the implication.
You know what else generalises people with those conditions? The medical definition for those conditions. Wow!
He didn't say it was an issue or a negative thing at all. It's simply how singleplayer games are.
ElectricBlue187
Member
I'm not really offended but he probably could've said that better. I'm more offended by the anti-single player stance so many developers seem to be taking for thinly veiled financial reasons.
Wickerbasket
Member
If he was a doctor giving a talk about those conditions you might have a point! However, he's not, and he's using the terms in a derogatory manner on a public platform.
Also, you shouldn't be offended when someone calls you retarded while playing online. After all, they aren't insulting you, they're just describing how you interact with the game.
Dlacy13g
Member
But he did, he associates the single player game with being like having a retarded and austisic lead actor... as in something that is a bad situation.
No, he's using them in a way that describes the way that singleplayer games need to be designed. Neither good or bad; descriptive.
I don't get offended, but I'm sure their context of usage will be vastly different than Gabe's.
But sometimes I feel like the field of view is limited like my main character is a slant-eyed asian. It's true and descriptive, so it can't possibly be offensive.
harrypmgaga
Member
I think you're the one that's making it negative or being overly defensive about it given your son's condition. Just my 2c.
faceless007
Member
There aren't 13 pages worth of people offended by Gabe's remarks. Most of the 13 pages are people offended at the very idea that someone else might be offended by Gabe's remark.
Is this a medically accepted thing with a definition or no?
lol please read them again then.
Oh sure. Asians have small eyes the same way retards are dumb. Clinical, you see.
graywolf323
Member
thank you, I have autism and you summed it up better than I could
it's astonishing the ignorance being displayed by some people here and in some ways it's more offensive than what Gabe said
Delusibeta
Banned
AFAIK they are just about getting round to introducing "intellectual disability", but "mentally retarded" is still the official medical term.
The movie is called "Drive".
Delusibeta
Banned
It's interesting that this is the only place I've seen that taken offence on that statement (of which I blame Nirolak).
Dlacy13g
Member
Cheers to you, and I fully agree. There is a level of ignorance on display that honestly baffles me.
You mean the people who can't understand a simple text? That what Gabe meant wasn't about actual autistic or retards but the strange way the game character behaves?
graywolf323
Member
just because autistic people act different doesn't mean we're lesser
honestly I think Gabe picked the worst possible time to do this, the media when they aren't talking about guns have been talking about autism ever since Sandy Hook and there have even been calls to put everyone with mental problems into mental hospitals
All in all I think he should have avoided saying it that way just to be careful, but I don't see how he meant it negatively. At no point he said single player games are bad, just limited in the particular way the main character is allowed to interact with the world and people. He didn't infer there was something wrong with that, and multiplayer games are also limited in their own ways. sonicmj1's post expanded on the notion nicely.
Dlacy13g
Member
Ignorance on display. "retards" REALLY? Read what you are typing...
Gabe didn't imply that they were lesser either.
It was an ignorant statement but I'm nearly certain it was offhand and there was no malice in it, so really who gives a shit? This is ignoring the fact that calling people "retards" was commonplace slang only 15 or so years ago, and many people still use it.
I was more interested in what he actually meant than his choice of wording. Yeah, he shouldn't say it, but whatever, honestly. If you find it offensive then don't hang out with Gabe or play his games or whatever.
And plenty of autistic people ARE weird. Not all but if I was describing someone peculiar, I may offhandedly call them autistic, especially if I was joking and my main reason for saying it was to explain a LARGER point.
I understand my post is not going to change anyone's opinion but I do think people, by and large, need to take chill pillz about stuff like this.
I was more interested in what he actually meant than his choice of wording. Yeah, he shouldn't say it, but whatever, honestly. If you find it offensive then don't hang out with Gabe or play his games or whatever.
And plenty of autistic people ARE weird. Not all but if I was describing someone peculiar, I may offhandedly call them autistic, especially if I was joking and my main reason for saying it was to explain a LARGER point.
I understand my post is not going to change anyone's opinion but I do think people, by and large, need to take chill pillz about stuff like this.
Again, I have to ask, if this was such a matter of fact, clinical description, then why did the audience laugh?
BolognaOni
Member
There are certain words that just offend some people regardless of context or intent. It's too bad this whole discussion had been derailed by Gabe's decision to use one of those terms.
I do find the statement interesting though, as it seems like his feelings are directly related to the way Valve likes to do storytelling in games (no cutscenes, silent protagonists, etc). This is certainly more immersive, but I have to admit it does sometimes feel like the character you're controlling is a bit of a shell.
I do find the statement interesting though, as it seems like his feelings are directly related to the way Valve likes to do storytelling in games (no cutscenes, silent protagonists, etc). This is certainly more immersive, but I have to admit it does sometimes feel like the character you're controlling is a bit of a shell.
Because the intended meaning of the word is not obvious instantly? People are used to hearing the word "retard" in a derogative manner. Your ear is fixed on that. I would have laughed as well at first.
Laughing is also a coping mechanism, when you experience new unknown situations. When Gabe Newell uses the word retard, you really don't know what to think. Is it reogative and I should feel ashamed that he used such a word? Should I be angry at him? What did he really mean?
paperboywriter
Member
I just finished watching the whole thing. mostly a economical talk about the change of developer-consumer relations.
the thread title was a joke of him. calm down.
the thread title was a joke of him. calm down.
EagleBurnn
Banned
It's still insulting to many regardless and was un-needed. Imagine if a company that isn't particularly liked such as EA would have said this? This thread would have been at 100+ pages at this point.
flatearthpandas
Member
Possibly because they realized it was a simple but poignant comparison? Some single-player MCs do in fact behave as if they are disabled. We're often not thinking of their behavior through the perspective of the game world so this is an observation that might have escaped some people.
Or, maybe they laughed simply at the fact that he used the word "retarded" and would have reacted similarly if he had said "do do."
The fact that people laughed doesn't mean he was being disparaging. I laugh when people fall down the stairs; that doesn't mean they injure themselves for my amusement.
And if there were any autistic people in the audience?
Can you see how someone describing a character as autistic followed by a bunch of laughing could be hurtful?
No one is calling to remove all color from the English language. Just try to be decent person and choose your words a little better.
BolognaOni
Member
I know things are pretty desperate, but burning Steam libraries is going to be pretty tough...
cicero
Member
Except the ONLY reference to Greece by Gabe in that article was this:
So no, it ISN'T called "making a tasteless joke about a foreign country" at all, because it was in no way a "tasteless joke". Your standard for what makes a joke "tasteless" is ridiculous and delusional. Gabe teased his employee that Steam is five times the size of Greece, which can be proven here and here. And then teased him by saying that they had less debt, which can be proven here.
So Gabe mentions in passing how he liked to TEASE his economist employee Yanis during a lecture he was giving at the school where Yanis is a Visiting Scholar, and his teasing is based on factual evidence. But for you, and really, only you, it suddenly became a hugely offensive "tasteless joke"? Again, your position is ridiculous and delusional.
The name of a medical condition, but I guess you're too ignorant to know that?
Your attitude has the opposite effect you think it have.
There is VERY much a difference and I can't honestly believe that you can't grasp at the subtleties of it.
Battersea Power Station
Member
I'm usually a big sissy when it comes to calling people the r word, but I don't find this instance offensive. He really means it quite literally: the way you design a good, plot-driven single player experience is by treating the protagonist as developmentally retarded.
The outrage here is a bit off the mark.
The outrage here is a bit off the mark.
cicero
Member
Again, the answer is that his answer encapsulated single-player games so well. The natural response for some in that situation, as in most similar situations, would be laughter. You assume malicious and malign intent on those who laughed, not to mention Gabe, unless you plan on graciously allowing for the possibility that it was just a mistaken word choice on his part. Ignoring of course the context of what he said, and the legitimate definitive use of the words he chose. This is just overblown politically correct hand-wringing and outrage over something entirely innocent and innocuous. Get real.
la flama blanca
Banned
This PC bullshit is so sad.