If you want to see why port begging should be banned, go check out some of the old Bayonetta 2 threads.
That's because you do.
That's because you do.
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Gaf, help me understand the no port begging thing.
- Thread starter Khalifa Jayy
- Start date
Steverulez
Member
It does nothing for discussion (to me anyway) if its acceptable because it will just derail. If I see game X is announced for platform Y or Y and Z, I expect to go into that thread (and my motivation for doing so) is to go in and see people discussing the game or new information or whatever there is... going in and seeing people discussing another platform that the game isn't on is irrelevant and 99% of the time also has absolutely nothing to do with the game either.
I get where you're coming from, but no. The temptation to champion a false middle ground, hurl a platitude known to yield assent or (seemingly disinterestedly) arbitrate to devitalize a conversation is strong as it is.
Should be noted that port beggin is
"lol why not bayoneta on ps3 ? you sux"
and not
"I think bayonetta should be on the playstation 3 because the blast processing can render more individuals hairs and therefore the gameplay will be better optimized for an action game with hair based atacks"
edit : aparently I missed the entire page 2 which this is specialy focused ...sorry
"lol why not bayoneta on ps3 ? you sux"
and not
"I think bayonetta should be on the playstation 3 because the blast processing can render more individuals hairs and therefore the gameplay will be better optimized for an action game with hair based atacks"
edit : aparently I missed the entire page 2 which this is specialy focused ...sorry
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Thanks, I'm actually quite content with how you guys do your thing, port-begging is just one of the few things I don't completely understand as being a rule instead of case by case thing. What if, for example, I said "I hope x system gets this game down the line because I'm interested" and someone actually knew that the game was in fact coming to that system. It's rarely an interesting post subject, I agree, but I see it being harmless depending on the context of the post.
I avoid the subject entirely now. Except for this post.. hmm.. maybe I should hit back beforeNeuromancer
Member
If you're smart you can kind of get away with it. If you're not smart, do not attempt.
GravityMan
Member
Port begging (among other things) shits up threads, wastes people's time and adds nothing to the discussion.
On a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing a bit harder crackdown on posters who obviously didn't read the OP when they post. Those often derail threads too.
On a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing a bit harder crackdown on posters who obviously didn't read the OP when they post. Those often derail threads too.
ArkkAngel007
Member
While it shouldn't be acceptable when a game is announced (like AC: Rogue or GTA V), after a year or so after the game is out and there's precedent it doesn't hurt to discuss it as long as it isn't intruding in other discussions.
So people who were eager to see a GTA V announcement for PC AFTER the game was all said and done on 360/PS3 had both the precedent and the time passed to engage that discussion. Not to mention the continuous faux postings on online retailers kept giving life to it until the eventual announcement is made.
Things like ZombiU and even Ryse prior to the recent announcement though are circumstances that shouldn't really be acceptable for 'port begging' as there wasn't a precedent or even any indication of intent to encourage that discussion. Because of that, the discussion added nothing but people wanting their choice of platform to get the goods and, unfortunately, shit on the platform of origin.
It's all about the context.
Those GTA phone port graveyards always confused me. They're 10+ year old games available on a bunch of devices getting fairly barebones phone ports. What pre-release discussion is there other than "Wow, I can't wait to play this" and "Uh, I'm not sure how this is going to control on a touch screen"? I'm saying this because I got banned in one of those threads. I questioned why there was no Vita version when Rockstar had no problem porting it to Windows Phone. I've never read developers singing sales praises for that platform and most games skip it. If that's fair-game to Rockstar, why not Vita? My ban (which was only a few days, so no grudge) message said it was due to shitting on phone gaming, which was weird given I was only dissing Windows Phone's viability.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Nymphae
Banned
The same could be said of 90% of the posts I see in most threads. Thousands of amateur comedians in this place not really adding to conversations, just people trying to make funny comments or push buttons.
Has a thread ever been derailed by people asking for ports, or expressing interest in a title on a particular platoform? I'd be very surprised if this was the case. Just ignore posts that don't contribute. I don't understand why it should be grounds for banning.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
As a suggestion, maybe there should be a little statement about this "unwritten rule" in the F.A.Q section.
I tried searching that section for "port" with zero results, and could not find anything about it in the T.O.S, Member Etiquette and New Thread Rules, or Banned Sites, Inappropriate Posts, and Memes.
I tried searching that section for "port" with zero results, and could not find anything about it in the T.O.S, Member Etiquette and New Thread Rules, or Banned Sites, Inappropriate Posts, and Memes.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
In the same way that there's no explicit rule about "console wars" either. It all stems from the TOS:
The reason we don't try to make long lists of very concrete rules is because moderation is a flexible, case-by-case situation and trying to enumerate everything that's ever been a problem just makes people less likely to read the rules at all. Look at the section on thread whining in the BS, IP, and M thread that I wrote; you can tell that I'm trying to express "Don't look for a list of specific things that get you banned, try to think in general how this contributes to the discussion", right? That's what I'm expressing here. Don't think of it as "port begging is bannable", think of it as "port begging is one very specific case of generally low-content replies that take away from the conversation, inflame tempers, and lower the signal-to-noise ratio and I should avoid it whether I'm going to be banned for it or not."
I mean, you can shorten the rules even further: Speak only if you can improve on silence (even if no one else seems to be following this rule).
the mods on this site are some of the worst posters, so it's not surprising that they operate thoroughly arbitrarily.
That's somewhat different. Often not all of the platforms have been decided when the Kickstarter page goes up but the project pitchers might've said something about a port for XBone or PS4 or Wii U or Vita somewhere around the interwebz, even if it's not mentioned on the Kickstarter page and people just usually ask if anything has been said about platform X in regards to ports. So it's more of a case of ACTUALLY influencing what platforms a future game might release on, not whining & bitching about stuff that will never happen (i.e. Bloodborne on Xbone or Wii U or PC).
There are a lot of Kickstarter projects that have had some platform or the other (or all of them) added (as a stretch goal or otherwise) due to enough people making it heard that they want the project on a particular platform. The posts in Kickstarter threads are more like "have they talked about bringing this to Platform Y? If so, I might pledge money to make it happen", not "WAAAH, WAAAAH, Y IZ DIZ NOT ON MAH FAVOURITE PLATFORM, DIZ B BULLSHIT" (though there's some of that too, but even then it's often in the form of "they aren't even planning an Xbone port? Oh well, I won't pledge").
But in cases like Bayonetta 2, it's just BS that craps the thread.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
We probably are and we probably do, but just as a piece of personal advice, if you don't like the site's rules, direction, or administration, you'd probably be happier reading/posting somewhere else. There are lots of forums that have very different rules and policies than GAF, and not everyone works well with the rules here. GAF is also pretty enormous and I think the size has advantages and disadvantages, but if the disadvantages aren't worth it for you, again there are lots of smaller places to check out. It's also quite possible to just read OPs on GAF and use it as a news source but never really follow up on the discussion. All of those things sound like they'd make you happier.
I was going to point out the stuff in the FAQ like "It's not about banning specific phrases, it's about encouraging good quality posts" but your paraphrase of M.G. pretty much nails it.
SEGAvangelist
Member
LOL. Who posts this? Ridiculous...
Also. Thread whining is just as bad as port begging to me.
This is very true
test_account
XP-39C²
I dont see why it has to be seen as a derailment of the discussion. If a game is announced and someone express the interest in playing it, but simply saying that they wish that it was on a platform that they own (otherwise they cant play it), why should that be seen as derailing? It adds just as much to the discussion as something saying "this game looks cool!" or something like that, in my opinion (its not like there is much to reply/discuss around those type of comments). If someone starts talking negative about the platform(s) that the game is on, then i understand why derailment might happen though.
Yeah they port beg The Shovel Knight.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Personally I wish the ban would be extended to people complaining about remasters.
AwakenedCloud
Member
I like that it's enforced, but it is one of the least consistently enforced rules we have here. Case in point, the Final Fantasy Type-0 thread got decimated with talk of it not coming to the Vita.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
According to your theory, they would ban the best posters, not mod arbitrarily.
PM a mod if you don't like any of the mods.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Haha shots fired
Honestly, I'm glad for the port begging rule. There's no conversation to be had around "why isn't Bloodborne on Xbox/PC," or "Insomniac is going to bring this to PS4, right?"
Honestly, I find thinly veiled port begging to be even worse than the blatant posts. Shit like: "are we sure this is exclusive" and "this would look so much better on my gtx 6987875475" are far more irritating, IMO.
OverBlood 3
Banned
I don't find it as annoying as when someone says [So and so] should make [game]. They're always wrong but you'll get about 5 or 6 people saying "Yeahhh!" in reply.
I disagree massively, they're pretty much always right or at least incredibly knowledgeable.
I disagree massively, they're pretty much always right or at least incredibly knowledgeable.
Well, for 20+ minutes we thought that game was coming to Vita.
Isn't that on PC?
Red Mage
Member
You do, and even though Stump already addressed it, I would argue it is still annoying and derailing, because it leads to console vs. PC arguments. Heck, there was a thread a while back that was essentially organizing a wide-scale port-begging campaign to Capcom for PC.
Why do I get the feeling this is someone's alt?
Even tho it is more benign because it doesn't hold the derailing traction that console wars does, I still wish it would happen less.
edit:
except that really bad one. you know the one i mean.
Its the worst kind of fluff post because it generally starts arguments and derails a thread from normal discussion. Empty hype posts do not detract from ongoing discussion in the same manner.
This went on for a long time, its been curtailed more recently though. I think that is why PC master race style posts are bannable now.
This went on for a long time, its been curtailed more recently though. I think that is why PC master race style posts are bannable now.
manzoman96
Member
those posts don't bother me. I feel like you're just acknowledging the other person, which is a normal part of conversation.
Is there a joke here I'm not getting? Shovel Knight came out on PC on the same day it came out on 3DS/Wii U.
Doesn't his sentence mean that console owners port peg for PC games? I am reading it wrong aren't I?
OverBlood 3
Banned
That is why it is case by case thing. Type-0 announcement topic first listed Vita as a platform that the game will be released on. It was the result of an official announcement on the PSN blog, written by the S-E representative. Take a look at the first 10 (maybe less) pages - tons of vita owners hyping the game. Than the announcement has been corrected resulting in major backlash from the group that have been most vocal about this game in all the years since the PSP release. It wouldn't make any sense to ban those people at that time, given the context.
Than you see something like Bayonetta 2 topic with cringe worthy fanboy bullshit comments.
And here is my answer to the OP - it wastes our time to read such posts.
It's sometimes bannable. PC port begging goes unpunished a lot for some reason. Though GAF is a big place so the mods probably aren't always aware. Sort of depends on the thread. You'll see it enforced when one blows up with a ton posts.
As for the reasoning, I would guess the thought is that it derails discussion and is sort of pointless. A developer/publisher isn't going to change their target platforms because of a few dozen angry GAF posts.
As for the reasoning, I would guess the thought is that it derails discussion and is sort of pointless. A developer/publisher isn't going to change their target platforms because of a few dozen angry GAF posts.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
That was a hard case.
1) The game was originally released for PSP, so people saw it primarily as a portable game
2) The rumours before the announcement had it being ported to Vita
3) The announcement itself said it was coming to Vita before taking it back
4) The last Final Fantasy remaster this year came to Vita
5) The game was one of the top few entries on Sony's officially sanctioned "what would you like to see on Vita" list.
That the conversation was going to revolve around the Vita's conspicuous absence is not surprising. Granted, a lot of threads get Vita port begging and it's super duper annoying a lot of the time, but in that case I think the specifics of the case made us give a little more leeway than usual about the extent to which it dominated the thread.
Those are somewhat understandable exceptions to the rule, or at least GTA is. GTA hasn't missed a game on PC and there's really nothing pointing out it would start doing so with V, so we know GTAV PC will be released at some point or the other and people are just venting frustration on how long it is taking Rockstar to announce it.
Again, that WAS somewhat understandable because 1) Type-0 was a PSP game and a lot of people either waited for a PSP localization prior to PSP's death or expected it to be ported to & localized as a Vita game, 2) there was an erroneous announcement that DID mention Vita, so a lot of people were perhaps more pissed about it at first being announced for Vita rather than the fact that it's not coming to Vita and 3) it was a part of the whole JRPGVITA campaign, so people were kinda expecting that if it was ever released outside of Japan, it would be for Vita.AwakenedCloud said:
I mean, yeah, the whining did reach ridiculous levels and I personally think this is close to a best case scenario (if the choice is between not getting Type-0 at all, getting Type-0 perhaps almost unchanged/at most somewhat cleaned up & more polished for Vita or getting a massively improved version for PS4Bone, I'd always pick the PS4Bone "Definitive Edition"), but I don't think that was a bannable offense at that time, no matter how annoying it got.
Port complaining is also a good rule. I don't really see much of it now but I imagine it got annoying when FFXIII was announced as multi platform and there probably being a lot of posts about "Why is this coming to 360 as well? Should be exclusive to Playstation 3 so it can use more power and not be held back!"
I don't know about that the mod here are okay, especially Eatchildren his post makes me laugh.
Is there something that I am missing?
Thank goodness because that crap gets annoying very quickly.
Oh, haha I see what you meant now. I think he was saying the opposite: people who beg for games to come to PC.
Goldenmoney
Member
Check out literally any bayonetta 2 thread and you'll know why.
And also how the series should become Dragon's Dogma with co-op because someone vaguely likes the idea of hunting monsters but dislikes every single game mechanic in MH. One wonders why they don't just wish for Dragon's Dogma with co-op instead.
One question.
Why do mods allow abusive posts of false accusations for the purpose of banning other users? Do you think it is right for childish posts to account any position or view on the table as port begging because they lack the basic reasoning skills? Because in the real world when a business, a service or a product goes shit, they either change the higher ups or merge, or are overtaken, and ect.
Never seen any post ban for that or at least re-edited.
AwakenedCloud
Member
That's understandable given the situation. It was just a shame because it overshadowed the actual announcement completely in the thread. Even as a Vita owner, I find the amount of port begging that goes on for it tasteless.
I appreciate the candid response.
As highlighted one of the important things is to look at everything surrounding the announcement and if perhaps that sort of discussion might actually be relevant. And what people are actually saying, Type-0 was a clusterfuck and seemingly did not NEED to leave Vita behind to come out (it may even actively make little to no sense if it's barely improved on PS4/XB1 as Kagari's suggested) whereas something like Bayonetta may have the established fanbase angle, but that's more than countered by the "this wouldn't fucking exist without Nintendo" angle. Which is what made a lot of the port begging frustrating there, in that it's not just disappointed that is what's necessary for the game to exist but acting as if everyone was committing some sort of crime by getting Bayonetta 2 on Wii U when at most Sega's guilty of going "eh don't want to fund this anymore."
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I don't know what you mean by this.