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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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Pehesse

Member
Agreed totally. I should make the repelling more important but at the same time, those players who can't tell the only thing they actually CAN do is to deflect the magic, how would those player understand the first mob where you're supposed to repell its projectiles? Can't most people really NOT find something without a cut-scene blatantly showing what to do? I feel a cut-scene like that is even worse than an integrated tutorial since you don't even interact...

I thought maybe about some "mob door". A kind of plant blocking the way and if you don't repell its spore projectiles on it, it doesn't die (and therefore the player can't proceed). But then again, if don't put that plant right at the freaking start of the game, the people could say "oh its a Metroidvania, I must have missed something".

How did we instinctively knew we had to deflect Aganhim's projectiles in Zelda Link To The Past without ever deflecting a damn thing before we got to that point? I am not making a point against yours, am just feeding the thoughts.

Okay, so I played it too. First, let me preface this by saying I mostly agree with Correojon's points, so I'll try not to repeat what they said. Also, usual feedback note: while I have somewhat strong views on some design stuff and may offer suggestions, they're only my views/experience and you're perfectly free and welcome to disagree!

With that said: I'll admit, my overall feeling isn't very positive, and if I wasn't testing, I'd have dropped off just before/after the red mage fight. I believe you have a solid mechanics foundation (I had some play issues I'll go over below) but I was kind of put off by too many presentation elements to be invested, and care about what I was doing.

-First of all, the keys: it's a standard and many don't bother, but it's still appreciated when ZQSD (international version of WASD) works in parallel, even when keys are ultimately meant to be remappable. I'd suggest moving them to ESDF (no change in international layouts) or even better, the directional arrow pad (or both). Using the HJKL keys for the other interactions also felt a bit cramped: even though I get the reference, I very quickly moved them to the numpad so my hands could be more comfortably apart.

-Trying to remap some keys to the numpad additional signs (+, -, *, etc) led to some confusion as they would not display correctly in the key config menu, so I wasn't sure if they registered, failed to register, or was even attempting to input anything anymore.

-Even though this is a metroidvania and you get the jump boots fairly quickly in both tutorial and adventure modes, I fely very limited and constrained by the initial jump arc. It's very small and has limited air time, making for uncomfortable air control. I'd rather feel empowered by finding hi-jump boots, rather than think "ah, finally I'll be able to jump somewhat adequately".

-the camera felt a bit stiff, as it keeps the character at the center of the screen at all times. While it's a much more difficult problem to handle in a metroidvania game, considering players will want to go left/up/down/right at all times, there are still a number of different ways to approach moving it to offer visibility: if you haven't already, I recommend checking out articles regarding 2D platforming cameras like this:

http://subtractivedesign.blogspot.fr/2013/02/making-platforming-games.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Itay..._and_Practice_of_Cameras_in_SideScrollers.php
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022243/Scroll-Back-The-Theory-and
http://www.imake-games.com/cameras-in-2d-platformers/

(if your intent is to go the "fixed camera" route, then I believe some of the enemy/trap placement in adventure mode should be reworked based on where the camera actually is when encountering those challenges)

-Using "down" to interact is counterintuitive, especially considering all elements appear to be behind/above us, so "Up" feels completely natural (and is most likely why it turned into the current standard). In addition, this being a platformer, Jump/spacebar is the most frequently used key, yet it can't be used to skip text boxes. Every instance of text box had me pressing in succession spacebar (doesn't work), enter (doesn't work, some confusion as it's the key used in the main menu) then frustratingly remembering to press down.

-regarding the tutorial textboxes, they don't appear long enough: I believe they're commanded through triggers (one "appear", one "disappear") that are much too close, forcing you to stay still if you want to read the rather long messages in their entirety. In that kind of scenario, I like to read while moving, which was simply impossible here, as the windows closed almost immediately after I took a few steps. They also kept popping back up when going back/messing around, making for visual clutter.

-coming back for the "lungs" item in the tutorial area: while a good idea in theory, the fact that all old tutorial messages still popped up when going back all but indicated that we weren't meant to go back. You could argue this makes actually going back and finding the lungs all the more sweet, but I think the constant text box visual interruption was more grating than anything else. I'd recommend all tutorial messages on the way back be disabled after reaching the yellow statue (possibly even one of them replaced to hint that "hey, going back is actually something possible), or if you're concerned that players still need to access them to relearn what they saw coming in, you could tie them to computer terminals the player would have to interact with (and go one step further, and add a delay timer to their disappearance, so you solve both the trigger appearance issue, and the going back one).

-all text boxes appeared the same, even though some of them are actually multi part? Unless I missed something, I would have liked a small indication that there was more text coming (a small arrow, a (1/3), anything - one of them, the first in fact, had a (...) which at first I thought was the end of the message, which was confusing for a bit, but the later ones didn't reuse it). In most cases, I believe having context as to the amount you're reading/about to read is important when factoring in the information a specific text box is giving you.

-During the adventure mode introduction (again, unless I missed something) there are no hints that the world is set in a different universe (even magic is arguably a "regular" fantasy standard) until we reach the "remote village of humans" line, which made me have a double take, as it felt very unnatural to refer to anything that way, both in regards to what I understood/assumed the character to be, and the information I had up to that point.

-In general, I wasn't feeling the writing: for lack of a better word, it felt slightly standoffish, and most characters weren't imparting very useful personality or information - kind of like Castlevania 2 with better grammatical structure. Most notably, a huge deal seems to be made about racial tension, but that didn't seem particularly well handled, and I didn't care for some of the terminology and attitudes of several characters (first woman character you meet calling you "handsome", first "non humans" you meet being dismissive/agressive and territorial even though they live 3mn away from the human settlement, etc).

-right when starting adventure mode I went left, and I tried for a while to interact with the boat to cross the lake, as it had an elaborately detailed engine. If it's to be a piece of scenery, I think it's slightly *too* elaborate, as it gives off vibes of being interactable (possible later down the line with items/powers, I don't know?) - either way, as a "first impression" towards possible interactions, I felt frustrated I couldn't do something I thought was visibly hinted at. (admittedly, the tutorial said objects would glint, but since it also encouraged exploration and trying things out that were visibly "not intended", I assumed this was another case of obfuscating information).

-during playing, I didn't feel much sense of progression: the later jumps were just as hard/wide as the beginning ones, and the enemy strength varied wildly, with the initial snails being effectively harmless, then running into a super tough plant with a million health, and then bees that could be taken down in two hits. This is the part where I mostly agree with Correojon: I believe the current level structure lacks progression, which ties into the "integrated tutorial" discussion. I also believe having an explicitly integrated tutorial isn't a good idea, but I didn't think that was what Correojon suggested. I believe what the LD currently needs is introduction to the different mechanical concepts solely through play (no text explanations, no nothing except the act of play) and get the player to overcome slightly increasingly challenging obstacles before presenting them with "jump over fireballs with super low ceiling heights" and "jump off an elevator near the top of the screen with spikes on top when spikes haven't been introduced before and the screen actually doesn't show the top soon enough". Think back to the intro stage of Megaman X and how it gradually presents you with challenges that use the different buttons/combinations of buttons, all without uttering a single word.

-the player hitbox felt larger than the character (it's likely just the outer bounds of the sprite, but it "feels" larger because of reaction time) and I got hit a number of times by bats and the red mage even though I was "visibly" away from their range. If it's not already in, I'd recommend making the player's hitbox and enemies hurtboxes smaller than the sprites outlines, so there's a degree of leeway for player reaction time, and also create a satisfying sense of "narrowly escaped that one" when brushing very close to enemies.

I'm very sorry I'm not more enthused, as it's clear a lot of work already has been put in there. For reference, my closest point of comparison would be La Mulana, which is not a good thing in my book (I find it purposefully obscure to the point of being voluntarily frustrating, and not in a good way). Challenge is one of the things I'm least interested in in a metroidvania game - this may be where our views diverge the most. Still, I believe "challenging" requires to be "fair", and purposeful obtuseness goes the opposite way AFAIC.

However, I also believe you have very solid mechanics, and my issues mostly stem from their use and presentation, and this being a test/prototype version, I'm not sure how much of it is actually placeholder - I would likely have a very different take on another level design using a different script/writing style. I'm also of course clearly looking to design a platformer of another type in regards to camera usage/jump hang time and the likes, so we may have wildly conflicting design philosophies here :-D

I hope any of the above can be of use to you, and I'm looking forward to playtesting other versions down the line, see what you change and what effect it has on my experience!
 

correojon

Member
I agree with everything Pehesse said...except maybe the camera. I can´t remember having problems with it and this being a Metroidvania first, I think it´s nice to have the camera center on the player as that helps exploration. There are no long jumping sections and the jump is rather low, so I think it works with the current level design.

About the checkpoints, it just hit me that in fact I did a similar game many years ago (never finished it): a Metroidvania-platformer mix. In my case the map was divided in may smaller rooms, so whenever the player died he would just respawn at the room´s entrance. There was no health either so I didn´t have to face the same problems as you, but this made me think about Ori and the Blind Forest. It´s a Metroidvania with a heavy focus on platforming as well and combat with health. One of the game´s most praised innovations was to let the player create his own checkpoints at any time, at a expense of energy. There were also "static" checkpoints, so you could look into that and implement a similar system? Maybe have the crates give loot and use this loot as currency to build checkpoints?
 

Pehesse

Member
I agree with everything Pehesse said...except maybe the camera. I can´t remember having problems with it and this being a Metroidvania first, I think it´s nice to have the camera center on the player as that helps exploration. There are no long jumping sections and the jump is rather low, so I think it works with the current level design.

About the checkpoints, it just hit me that in fact I did a similar game many years ago (never finished it): a Metroidvania-platformer mix. In my case the map was divided in may smaller rooms, so whenever the player died he would just respawn at the room´s entrance. There was no health either so I didn´t have to face the same problems as you, but this made me think about Ori and the Blind Forest. It´s a Metroidvania with a heavy focus on platforming as well and combat with health. One of the game´s most praised innovations was to let the player create his own checkpoints at any time, at a expense of energy. There were also "static" checkpoints, so you could look into that and implement a similar system? Maybe have the crates give loot and use this loot as currency to build checkpoints?

Hahaha, I had the exact same thought regarding checkpoints, but didn't mention it for fear of it being too Ori :-D But yeah, since there are different colored gems already+a loot system from breakable boxes and the likes... I thought creating our own checkpoints, or activating different respawn abilities through different colored gems (normal respawn behavior=what it currently is, pay some gems at a respawn point=respawn with full health next time, pay some different colored gems=respawn with full health all times, etc...) could make for some neat currency use! Alternatively, didn't They Bleed Pixels use a similar played-controlled checkpoint system with a currency? Been a while since I played it but it could be another interesting reference to check out if going in that direction.

For camera, I'm likely having trouble expressing my thoughts as well: without entering visibility/LD considerations, I'm playing Kirby Planet Robobot in parallel, which also uses a fixed camera system centered on Kirby at all times, but its vertical transitions feel smoother somehow when going at high velocities (and I could swear it also rebounds when hitting the ground to help sell Kirby's "soft pillow" mass). I'm not sure if I'm going crazy or not, I'd really have to compare the two side by side, but Kirby feels smoothed (lerped? In C2, this: https://www.scirra.com/tutorials/626/making-a-smooth-following-camera), whereas in TLR it simply feels linear (and thus more rigid). I may be completely off base!
For a metroidvania, I like having even small hints of camera movement as I feel it parallels and encourages exploration (the camera becomes a metaphor of the player's eyes that seeks to "look around" rather than simply being a mechanical expression of "here's what you see around you" that I feel suits more arcadey challenge type games) and I believe exploration to be one of the core hooks of the metroidvania genre - but again, might be a different design approach and all that :-D

http://imgur.com/ZIGxY0G (shamelessly reusing Jobb's stuff here to make my point!)

But basically/TL:DR: even if fixed camera, I think smoothed movement is better!
 

correojon

Member
Hahaha, I had the exact same thought regarding checkpoints, but didn't mention it for fear of it being too Ori :-D But yeah, since there are different colored gems already+a loot system from breakable boxes and the likes... I thought creating our own checkpoints, or activating different respawn abilities through different colored gems (normal respawn behavior=what it currently is, pay some gems at a respawn point=respawn with full health next time, pay some different colored gems=respawn with full health all times, etc...) could make for some neat currency use! Alternatively, didn't They Bleed Pixels use a similar played-controlled checkpoint system with a currency? Been a while since I played it but it could be another interesting reference to check out if going in that direction.
Those are very good ideas!

For camera, I'm likely having trouble expressing my thoughts as well: without entering visibility/LD considerations, I'm playing Kirby Planet Robobot in parallel, which also uses a fixed camera system centered on Kirby at all times, but its vertical transitions feel smoother somehow when going at high velocities (and I could swear it also rebounds when hitting the ground to help sell Kirby's "soft pillow" mass). I'm not sure if I'm going crazy or not, I'd really have to compare the two side by side, but Kirby feels smoothed (lerped? In C2, this: https://www.scirra.com/tutorials/626/making-a-smooth-following-camera), whereas in TLR it simply feels linear (and thus more rigid). I may be completely off base!
For a metroidvania, I like having even small hints of camera movement as I feel it parallels and encourages exploration (the camera becomes a metaphor of the player's eyes that seeks to "look around" rather than simply being a mechanical expression of "here's what you see around you" that I feel suits more arcadey challenge type games) and I believe exploration to be one of the core hooks of the metroidvania genre - but again, might be a different design approach and all that :-D

http://imgur.com/ZIGxY0G (shamelessly reusing Jobb's stuff here to make my point!)

But basically/TL:DR: even if fixed camera, I think smoothed movement is better!
Something like Cave Story´s camera? That worked very well and the game itself relies pretty heavily on exploration and platforming, so I could see it owrking in this type of game.
 

Pehesse

Member
Something like Cave Story´s camera? That worked very well and the game itself relies pretty heavily on exploration and platforming, so I could see it owrking in this type of game.

Yeah, I guess! Cave Story feels to me a bit like the opposite extreme: the camera is almost too floaty since it's pretty slow, so it's always catching up, but as far as smoothed movement, yeah, I like it better! :-D
 

Jobbs

Banned
Yeah. In an exploration focused game, you want a camera that isn't distracting. You don't want to think about it much as the player.

This means it should show you what's ahead by leading in the direction you're moving and it shouldn't be jarring in its motion. If it's perfectly centered, too much of the screen is wasted at any given time. If there isn't some easing, the sudden starts and stops will be jarring.
 

DemonNite

Member
this is why I don't want to tackle a metroidvania style game just yet... way too many things to nail down :D good on you guys for doing it
 

wwm0nkey

Member
I really want to get back to work on my personal project, but school and work are always hindering me, work more so because that's already a dev job so I'm a bit burnt out when I get home.

Anyone have any recommendations or is it something where I should just try my best to fit it in my schedule?
 

Makai

Member
I really want to get back to work on my personal project, but school and work are always hindering me, work more so because that's already a dev job so I'm a bit burnt out when I get home.

Anyone have any recommendations or is it something where I should just try my best to fit it in my schedule?
Use a different language
 

Minamu

Member
Is anyone here familiar with Wordpress (free) and know of any efficient designs for a game portfolio site? This is my site currently: https://alexmorath.wordpress.com/

But I'm looking for something more along the line of the "the fold" design principle (as in, most people never bother to scroll past a certain point if they're not captivated immediately, so you need to put the most prudent information at the top).

I also need to cut out A LOT of fluff text, I know :)
 

missile

Member
Despite I haven't developed the pixelized defocusing blur to compete against
a smooth one, I couldn't resist doing so. xD And so I've implemented an
accumulation buffer technique to compute a smooth defocus. Here are the
results;

smooth
SaYkvZD.png

seconds per frame

--
Edit:
An improved smoothed version.
Look at the upper right most corner of the brown box for example.
c3BlPa3.png

--

pixelized
ojrtHPI.png

frames per second

I'm pretty satisfied with the pixelized one on its own. It conveys all what's
needed for a good defocus without producing eye-catching artifacts, even not
when in motion. In motion and at a distance the pixels will even be less
noticeable when putting against the smooth one.

There are still some things to optimize for, and also some cosmetic stuff like
implementing different aperture shapes etc., but I think I'm mostly done for
the time being. In the future I will focus more on lenses, odd projections
etc.. But for now I will work further towards some cool eye adaptation. :)
 

Ranger X

Member
Thanks again people for the great feedback. I realised I shouldn't have avoided this thread until now for that type of topic!



Okay, so I played it too. First, ...
*** lots of great stuff ***
... I hope any of the above can be of use to you, and I'm looking forward to playtesting other versions down the line, see what you change and what effect it has on my experience!

Thanks for trying and providing such detailed feedback. Its great food for thoughts and there's already stuff that changed in the game thanks to feedback. I will totally do something about the text boxes and maybe swap "Interact" and "Weapon change". (up and down).

Its comforting to me that your main issues indeed seems polish/interface/controls related since the game is admittedly in a raw state. I aim at the kind of polish we can see in games like Axiom Verge. If that ever happens I will clearly have surpassed myself.


this is why I don't want to tackle a metroidvania style game just yet... way too many things to nail down :D good on you guys for doing it

You know, this game is the first real video game am making. I learned everything with that game and while it might a classic noob error to tackle a complicated genre before having experience, at some point I decided I'd be alright and that I can make it through. We'll see what happens. :p
 

missile

Member
Finally had time reading correojon's and Pehesse's long posts. Pfeww ...
some people know there stuff! Good read! Even helped me with a couple of
things I'm after. :)
 

Pehesse

Member
Thanks for trying and providing such detailed feedback. Its great food for thoughts and there's already stuff that changed in the game thanks to feedback. I will totally do something about the text boxes and maybe swap "Interact" and "Weapon change". (up and down).

Its comforting to me that your main issues indeed seems polish/interface/controls related since the game is admittedly in a raw state. I aim at the kind of polish we can see in games like Axiom Verge. If that ever happens I will clearly have surpassed myself.

You're very welcome! I'm fully aware that asking for feedback from people you don't know (and likely have wildly different views/approaches) is nerve wracking, so I'm glad you still went through with it, and I hope it'll help!

I'm very much looking forward to future updates to your project, and I hope you'll be posting them here so more people can share their thoughts as well - in the end, I think/hope it kind of helps everyone (even the ones posting feedback, since ordering thoughts helps put words on previously unformed feelings!)
 

DemonNite

Member
2 more enemies that I completed over the holidays...

Spiders
OddballWigglyCockatoo.gif

FocusedEvergreenKarakul.gif


Spiders have a pretty basic move set. One close melee attack but can leap at the player from a long distance too. They also like to hug the ceiling so you have to keep an eye out.

Knights
JoyousAnnualIndianpangolin.gif

PossibleSelfreliantIndianglassfish.gif

FoolhardyHairyCusimanse.gif


Knights have a few moves, one which is pretty deadly but takes time to wind up.
 

If only spiders were always adorable... :p

On-topic: Unity 5.5 UI question!

1. Is it possible to have the game detect the last input type (keyboard/controller vs mouse) and show/hide buttons accordingly (of course, set as an option)?
2. Is it possible to have any focus/clicks done by the mouse to not affect keyboard/controller focus, or at least have it yanked out immediately? Would help a lot with preventing the "open menu" button from accidentally activating because the focus was on it, and Confirm happens to do both in-game and UI things.
3. Is it possible to automatically display a "snapping" cursor when using keyboard/controller to move the UI focused object?
 

LordRaptor

Member
If only spiders were always adorable... :p

I'm mostly joking, but that second GIF is something I really would dislike experiencing in VR

On-topic: Unity 5.5 UI question!

1. Is it possible to have the game detect the last input type (keyboard/controller vs mouse) and show/hide buttons accordingly (of course, set as an option)?
2. Is it possible to have any focus/clicks done by the mouse to not affect keyboard/controller focus, or at least have it yanked out immediately? Would help a lot with preventing the "open menu" button from accidentally activating because the focus was on it, and Confirm happens to do both in-game and UI things.
3. Is it possible to automatically display a "snapping" cursor when using keyboard/controller to move the UI focused object?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for, probably due to differences in terminology - could you explain in terms of how you expect a user to interact with the UI?
Are you asking for something like a Diablo map that you can show / hide on a toggle, that is then displayed as an overlay over the main game window, but that doesn't capture mouse or key inputs while it is showing?
 

DNAbro

Member
If only spiders were always adorable... :p

On-topic: Unity 5.5 UI question!

1. Is it possible to have the game detect the last input type (keyboard/controller vs mouse) and show/hide buttons accordingly (of course, set as an option)?
2. Is it possible to have any focus/clicks done by the mouse to not affect keyboard/controller focus, or at least have it yanked out immediately? Would help a lot with preventing the "open menu" button from accidentally activating because the focus was on it, and Confirm happens to do both in-game and UI things.
3. Is it possible to automatically display a "snapping" cursor when using keyboard/controller to move the UI focused object?

If I'm understanding correctly, for number 3 there isn't an automatic way to do it that I know of. I've done a keyboard cursor and I just moved it to the correct elements in code. I could be just ignorant though.

I haven't used a mouse in my game but I assume there has to be something that can tell it was moved.
 

missile

Member
Well, that's how the pixelized defocusing blur looks in 1080p!


zw3A.png



l714.png


(needs pixel perfect mapping to view properly)

Btw; These pictures are only of 256 colors (palette-based). :) That's the
result of my new quantizer. It shows how the pixelized defocusing blur holds
up nicely even on palette-based graphics, for, there is no blending going on.
 

Deques

Member
I bought Humble GameDev bundle and got a spare key for SpriteIlluminator

Does anyone want it? I already registered it to my email before I realized this tool is not for me. So you get an activation key for the software.

PM me if you really want it
 
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for, probably due to differences in terminology - could you explain in terms of how you expect a user to interact with the UI?
Are you asking for something like a Diablo map that you can show / hide on a toggle, that is then displayed as an overlay over the main game window, but that doesn't capture mouse or key inputs while it is showing?

If I'm understanding correctly, for number 3 there isn't an automatic way to do it that I know of. I've done a keyboard cursor and I just moved it to the correct elements in code. I could be just ignorant though.

I haven't used a mouse in my game but I assume there has to be something that can tell it was moved.

Sorry for not being clear.

Right now the game doesn't really let you move the character or interact with others with mouse clicks/drags at the moment, but the UI is fully controllable with either the keyboard or mouse (thanks, Unity!)

What I want to do is to:

Detect that the player is using the keyboard to input commands right now and show/hide buttons and stuff to reduce clutter and have the UI to be more relevant, and vice versa, and the "decluttering" feature can always be disabled via a menu option if the player prefers. It feels odd to see an always-visible "menu" button when I can just hit the Escape key, for example, on a keyboard.

Right now, the game starts with nothing in focus. The menu button is implemented as a UI button. You can open the menu by either using the hotkey or clicking on the actual button. Clicking on the menu button, the UI gets proper focus and you can move the focus around in the UI. If you just opened the menu via hotkey, though, nothing is in focus, and arrow keys do nothing. Not good. I need a way so that it automatically sets a UI button as the focus when the menu is invoked via hotkey.

Related to the above is what happens when the menu is then closed. If some UI element gets focused when spending time in the menu, then the floating menu button stays focused when you return to the game. This wrecks havoc when you try to interact with anything in the game, as it just so happens that the Submit button in the game controls both interaction and "clicking" buttons. Since I would like players to be able to confirm by always using the same key in game and in menus (Enter for everything, for keyboards, as an example - think of it like the A button in Nintendo and Xbox console games - in fact, Escape and Enter always cancels or confirms, in that order), I'd need to find a way to make the game "defocus" when you close the system menu.

As for the third part, I guess I'll have to programmatically display it.
 
Right now, the game starts with nothing in focus. The menu button is implemented as a UI button. You can open the menu by either using the hotkey or clicking on the actual button. Clicking on the menu button, the UI gets proper focus and you can move the focus around in the UI. If you just opened the menu via hotkey, though, nothing is in focus, and arrow keys do nothing. Not good. I need a way so that it automatically sets a UI button as the focus when the menu is invoked via hotkey.

EventSystem.current.SetSelectedGameObject() should help with your focus issues if you're using Unity's own UI navigation. As for detecting the last used input device, you'll have to do your own bookkeeping. We currently use InControl for input/device handling (might move to Rewired at some point, but that's an expensive per-seat license and InControl is good enough for now) and it covers that stuff as well.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Detect that the player is using the keyboard to input commands right now and show/hide buttons and stuff to reduce clutter and have the UI to be more relevant, and vice versa

something like (pseudocode)
Code:
enum ui_Mode {uimode_mouse, uimode_keyboard, uimode_both};
vector3 lastMousePos;

void OnGUI()
{
     // mouse check
     if (Input.mouseposition != lastMousePos) { //mouse has moved, set ui_mode to mouse, probably want to reduce sensitivity of check }
     lastMousePos = Input.mouseposition;

     // keyboard check
     if (Input.anykey)
     {
          if (Input.getbutton != Mouse1 || Mouse2 || Mouse3 || Mouse4 || Mouse5)
          { // set keyboard mode }
     }

     if (ui_Mode  = uimode_mouse) { // hide KB only elements }
     else if (ui_Mode = uimode_keyboard) { //hide mouse elements }
     else // show everything
}
might work?
 

LordRaptor

Member
Power Hover and Pako are out on Steam! -25% for the launch week!

Power Hover: http://store.steampowered.com//app/559960

Pako: http://store.steampowered.com/app/559870/

We are about to start a live stream in Twitch in about 45minutes.

https://www.twitch.tv/treemengames

Did you get a mods post support, or would you like a member that isn't you and is therefore fine with posting about your game to make a thread for you?
If yes, what info or screens would you like that thread to contain (PM if necessary)
 

Urishizu

Member
Outbreak releasing on Steam on January 17th, 2017!

Hi All! I've posted about my game Outbreak a few times in the last couple of months, but I'm excited to announce it has a release date on Steam!

Outbreak is a 4-player co-op survival horror game in the vein of classic Resident Evil and Silent Hill games. Brutal difficulty, atmospheric environments, strict inventory management and tense action! It will be available on January 17th, 2017! I've spent a very long developing this game and it's so exciting to be this close to release! I'll also have an Xbox One version debuting later in 2017. You can check out the launch trailer here.

Let me know if you have any thoughts or comments. Very excited to hear what people think!
 
Well, that's how the pixelized defocusing blur looks in 1080p!


zw3A.png



l714.png


(needs pixel perfect mapping to view properly)

Btw; These pictures are only of 256 colors (palette-based). :) That's the
result of my new quantizer. It shows how the pixelized defocusing blur holds
up nicely even on palette-based graphics, for, there is no blending going on.

Your depth of field stuff reminds me of Epic's CircleDOF.
 

Razlo

Member
Downloading right now!

Hey Pehesse I saw your screenshot spree in Twitter yesterday, game´s looking really good and it´s amazing how fast you´re making everything!

Yesterday I finally finished the 100% celebration animation, 99 frames of pure joy!
tA46K4N.gif

Great celebration animation!
 

Razlo

Member
OK, I played the Tutorial, the temple up to the main chambers (it threw me back to the main screen, so I suppose that´s the end of the available areas) and played a bit with the options to remap the controls. You should seriously consider using a default setting where the arrow keys are used, I think the majority of people would preffer it to the layout you have right now. I was impressed that the tutorial changed the text to adapt to my customized keys, nice detail.

There were some errors in the intro text (one was something like "my father been" and there was something more I can´t pinpoint exactly). The tutorial area was cool, but I think that you should get rid of it and implement it into the game, in a sort of first small temple. Also, some text boxes were placed in strange places, like one that would activate when you´re in the middle of a jump, better move it a bit to the right so it activates when the player lands. Oh and I think you should ad some fade in-out effect for the textboxes, it felt a bit off having them appear instantly.

I think you should make some QoL adjustments, like:
  • Allowing to turn off the legend on the map. You have to quit the map and reenter to get rid of it.
  • Allowing any key to advance text instead of tying it to down. BTW, is UP used for anything? I think it´s pretty standard by now to use UP to interact with doors, objects and such in sidescroller games, so maybe you should consider changing DOWN for UP.
  • Replenishing life when you save or when you respawn, or respawning nearby hearts. It was a bit frustrating respawning with only one heart.

About the game itself:
  • I think there are too many pixel perfect jumps. With the far from ideal controls (keyboard) I messed up many jumps.
  • There´s a guy that tells you that you have to beat the red mage by repelling his attacks. I didn´t like that he gave me the solution before I had a chance of finding it on my own. NTW, I loved the humour of the blue mages.
  • Also, right after this guy you meet the first fireball spitting statue, so I lost a few lives trying to repel it´s fireballs.
  • Sometimes I could go under the fireballs without taking damage (or maybe the damage animation didn´t trigger, not sure). It felt a bit inconsistent. It may have happened when I was swinging the sword, but I think one time I could just walk under a fireball without doing anything.
  • The Red Mage´s earthquake attack comes out too fast, specially for a first boss. I think the blocks should fall slower from the ceiling.
  • I got lost because I died after getting the red statue before saving and I wasn´t aware that I had to get it again. Some cue would be nice, like showing the inventory when you respawn.
  • You need to add sound effects ASAP, the game´s lacking feedback in the actions and sound would help a lot. The game would have felt much better with them.
  • The statues activate mechanism but they don´t give you a hint on what they did. It would be nice to have the camera show the activated mechanism or something.
  • The blue mages in the middle of danger areas felt off, I didn´t know if any of them would attack me. Maybe add something to clearly show they´re not enemies, like a bubble with a question sign to show you can talk to them.
  • The sword wouldn´t come out when you´re close to and facing a wall. It felt clunky, you should allow the player to use it even if it doesn´t do anything.
  • I loved discovering that you could repel the bees´ attack right back at them.
  • I found a secret and the game acknowledged it, but later I found another secret room and it didn´t say anything. There was no big treasure in this second room, just some boxes and a heart.

Overall I liked it, I love Metroidvanias and this was a challenging one. I like a lot the setting, but I think you´re going all out from the start and maybe you should make the difficulty of jumps and traps start lower and ramp up steadily.

Agree with that stuff said, I'd like to add a bit of my own feedback.

I don't really like the way the jump feels. Considering a lot of the game is jumping, this made it frustrating. Your character doesn't get the sort of arc I'd want and falls like rocks pretty quickly. The fact that there are such tough to make jump challenges on top of this, really added to my discomfort.

In regards to when I get the boots, it makes me jump higher, but it's not a big enough difference to be fun for me. A double jump, or a bigger jump with maybe some effects trail behind me or something would make getting those boots really feel cool.

I had text windows sort behind some level geometry.

Some of the text is weirdly written. I don't dislike the ideas, but I think the text needs a serious pass to be made more natural and dramatic.

The way enemies die is cool, but I'm not a fan of the way the main character dies. It's not as cool looking and it's over too quick to almost process. I think a more epic variation on the way enemies die being used for when the main character dies would be fun.


Overall I think if all the issues are ironed out, this is totally the type of game I'd play.
 

Razlo

Member
2 more enemies that I completed over the holidays...

Spiders
OddballWigglyCockatoo.gif

FocusedEvergreenKarakul.gif


Spiders have a pretty basic move set. One close melee attack but can leap at the player from a long distance too. They also like to hug the ceiling so you have to keep an eye out.

Knights
JoyousAnnualIndianpangolin.gif

PossibleSelfreliantIndianglassfish.gif

FoolhardyHairyCusimanse.gif


Knights have a few moves, one which is pretty deadly but takes time to wind up.

Totally nailing the foreboding atmosphere on this game.
 

missile

Member
Your depth of field stuff reminds me of Epic's CircleDOF.
What's that?


Hey guys!

Here's a new WIP shot from the new Super visual style in Super Night Riders, featuring more realistic textures / props, and updated image effects:

C17SPRzWEAIi7Rs.jpg:large
Out of curiosity, what is the reason you now go for a more realistic look of
for game? Not saying you shouldn't or something. Looks much better than last
time. That's for sure.
 

missile

Member
Can someone guide me in getting some NeoGAF art assets? Specifically, I need
the NeoGAF ball as a 2d spherical texture map similar as seen here;

owx5Bdh.png


or

KZGyPE8.png


(yet without the grooves)
 

Pehesse

Member
Just threw together a test level to showcase the adaptive layout mechanic:

https://youtu.be/7DmtMwzvIMo

The trigger can rely either on your current form, or your time spent as either form over the course of the game, or possibly other conditions if I think of interesting ones!
 

neko.works

Member
Out of curiosity, what is the reason you now go for a more realistic look of for game? Not saying you shouldn't or something. Looks much better than last time. That's for sure.

I agree, it looks MUCH better than the previous "new-style" screenshot.

Thanks!

The original low poly look of the game was inspired by the early 3D arcades such as the SEGA Model 1 (Virtua Racing). Unfortunately, many players - especially on Xbox One - considered that as low quality mobile level graphics. I'm adding this new Super style for these players.
 

DemonNite

Member
Hey guys!

Here's a new WIP shot from the new Super visual style in Super Night Riders, featuring more realistic textures / props, and updated image effects:

C17SPRzWEAIi7Rs.jpg:large

Looking good, much better I think :)

Just threw together a test level to showcase the adaptive layout mechanic:

https://youtu.be/7DmtMwzvIMo

The trigger can rely either on your current form, or your time spent as either form over the course of the game, or possibly other conditions if I think of interesting ones!

Thats looking mighty awesome! really fun to watch.

Looking good, but I think the downward animation is missing some weight. It's too linear and should get faster with the fall of the sword after having reached the peak of trajectory. It would give greater impact I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlrRJDq3sbA

Is this better? I kept the wind up/down animation the same speed but doubled the actual strike. Sorry for the terrible quality/framerate as I just took it directly from my Macbook Air which I'm working from.
 

Fox1304

Member
Is this better? I kept the wind up/down animation the same speed but doubled the actual strike. Sorry for the terrible quality/framerate as I just took it directly from my Macbook Air which I'm working from.

Looks better, but it's a bit hard to tell at that framerate.
 
EventSystem.current.SetSelectedGameObject() should help with your focus issues if you're using Unity's own UI navigation. As for detecting the last used input device, you'll have to do your own bookkeeping. We currently use InControl for input/device handling (might move to Rewired at some point, but that's an expensive per-seat license and InControl is good enough for now) and it covers that stuff as well.

something like (pseudocode)
Code:
enum ui_Mode {uimode_mouse, uimode_keyboard, uimode_both};
vector3 lastMousePos;

void OnGUI()
{
     // mouse check
     if (Input.mouseposition != lastMousePos) { //mouse has moved, set ui_mode to mouse, probably want to reduce sensitivity of check }
     lastMousePos = Input.mouseposition;

     // keyboard check
     if (Input.anykey)
     {
          if (Input.getbutton != Mouse1 || Mouse2 || Mouse3 || Mouse4 || Mouse5)
          { // set keyboard mode }
     }

     if (ui_Mode  = uimode_mouse) { // hide KB only elements }
     else if (ui_Mode = uimode_keyboard) { //hide mouse elements }
     else // show everything
}
might work?

That worked automagically! Now, there's still a few kinks (I need to put in inter-dependent code throughout so that it'll switch properly when the time comes - perhaps I could put it in every window's own scripting so that it'll know what it should do when they open and close. Only the main field UI "blob" needs to have a few things coded a bit harder as the same function handles the opening and closing of the system menu itself; every other one can have the focus be just set when they pop up) Double-tapping arrow keys just to have the focus move when you switch menus isn't too much fun.

Time to do things so that checkboxes and sliders are either visible when selected, or this might also happen to be the time where I really should write the code to display a cursor whenever the keyboard is being used. Good thing there's a way to grab the current selection's GameObject...
 
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