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[coopolon]

Steam has also a guarantee for how long their services will be running.

EDIT: I can't find a source though. Could anyone help me?

I would love to hear the source behind this because it is a pretty outlandish claim.

 

[Awntawn]

I think the reason why it never hits home is because the right explanations as to why they're not the same really aren't being brought forth very often. No offense to the OP, but from the standpoint of the people screaming that XBone isn't any different from Steam, most those are actually some pretty weak arguments. Saying it's not like Steam because it's just crappier and not as well done isn't really the point.

What needs to be emphasized is this: Steam is not a console. It is not trying to force anyone to do anything. It is merely one method of distribution of PC game content, a method that people choose to use because its benefits outweigh the restrictions. You can still buy almost every PC game you want in a store, and never tie it to a DD system.

The fact that this is a choice is extremely key here. Since Steam is not the only venue where PC games can be purchased, and since digital distribution lacks some of the incentives of physical media (particularly with regards to degree of ownership) they need to price competitively and do flash sales. Things that benefit the consumer.

PSN and XBox Marketplace are DD services like Steam. Albeit, poorly managed services that don't do much to make them significantly enticing over the alternative of purchasing physical copies in a fairly competitive marketplace. Nobody has a problem with this being an option.

What Microsoft is doing with the XBone is not trying to mimic Steam. They've already done that last generation. What they are trying to do is to eliminate any alternative methods of purchasing games by tying them all to the same system with the same restrictions. This makes it so that people no can no longer choose to buy games off of their version of Steam. They essentially have to. And when that's the case, consumers will have to suffer the restrictions without being able to reap the benefits. The benefits for the consumer won't be there, because with no alternative, the platform holder has no incentive to offer them.

 

[Rashid]

Stea, doing digital distribution right since 2002 or whatever. SEN store and XBL Marketplace will never catch up, every single game on there with retail versions should be cheaper then in stores.

 

[scoobidoo112]

There never really has been a second hand game market on the PC, even long before Steam became popular. So while low sale prices are nice (Steam prices at launch are often higher then retail prices), it doesn't do much towards taking away a need that has not really existed since the 90s.

Most of the games i own on PC can be traded or sold just fine. Serial key plus needing the disc inserted was the norm for a long, long time, way into the 2000's. You should go on Ebay and see how many games are up there. Or cons where you can buy entire bins of pc games. I don't really understand where you get idea that there isn't a second hand market for PC games. There always has been. Especially now when the economy has gone to shit.

 

[Trent Strong]

I bought Crysis 3 for $60 on Steam. I can't trade it in, I can't lend it to a friend, I can't sell it, I don't own it....Yeah, this is absolutely nothing like the situation on the Xbox. I don't see any similarities there at all. What kind of retard would compare the two?

 

[Enco]

While true, buying a Steam game disc clearly states the game will need the steam platform to activate it. Non steam games you can trade it with no problem, but it's always a risk because they might have just kept the CDKey for themselvs.
I still don't see this as a point. There's no trade in section for PC games because for as long a I can remember, every game has a CD key and no store is willing to accept a game in case the key has been used.

Steam is not DRM, you can play many games you downloaded from steam without even running the Steam client. Yes some games have aditional DRM on top, but that has nothing to do with Valve or Steam.
Very very few games are completely DRM free on Steam. Pretty much every big release is guaranteed to not be DRM free on Steam. Can you name any big DRM free games?

When was the last time you actually tried it?
I can't remember but it didn't work when I needed it.

.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

- Steam has also a guarantee for how long their services will be running. (Thanks Septimius)
Not really. It's for sure more likely to last longer than consoles but you can't guarantee this. This is an issue for both platforms.

Steam has a written policy stating they would remove authentication requirements if Steam as a service shuts down and all games will remain playable. Sony and Microsoft have not done this yet.

 

[AriEX2]

Hopping on my escape goat.

Amazing how many posts it took for someone to jump on that

 

[Bittercup]

Of cause Steam and the new Xbox 1 are not identical and I don't think anyone that brings comparisons to Steam up thinks that.
But there are similarities between both that can equally be criticised. For example the point about ownership/consumer rights isn't that much different.
Besides some of the counter arguments don't really have much to do with steam. Mods are an advantage of PC gaming, not of steam as you don't need steam for that, backwards compatibility as well. And the usual price argument is more a matter of taste because it doesn't change the DRM itself it's just that many consumer are more willing to accept it when they don't have to pay that much, but not everyone feels like that and it doesn't make the DRM any better.
Unfortunately I have never seen a source for the claim, that Valve will release a anti-steam-patch in case Steam gets down and at least in the user agreement they don't promise you anything. And the argument, that on PC it's easy to circumvent the DRM in case you don't have access to your games anymore for whatever reasons, who knows if the Xbox 1 will be hacked. If it will be, this would still not make the DRM any better the same way, as it doesn't make the DRM on Steam any better.
"Steam is a digital distribution platform. No one really expects to sell or trade in digital purchases" If steam was just a digital distribution platform and everyone had the choice to buy the same games elsewhere I would agree, but for most major releases you don't have the choice. Even buying them at retail often require you to use steam.

- Steam is a digital distribution platform. No one really expects to sell or trade in digital purchases, we use steam with that already in mind, however when I buy a freaking game console disc, no matter where I bought it, I sure as hell expect it to work.
Why not change expectations? You can buy a PC game on disk and not be able to trade it in either. I guess you could never do it on PC so it's not shocking but since you could previously do it on consoles, the change is even worse. However, I don't see this as a good point.

Actually you could. Most PC games I played when I was young where either lend from friends or rented from stores.
But I have the impression that this was different in other countries, as I've read this multiple times in discussions like this. At least technically there wasn't anything stopping you from lending/renting/selling used PC games before the whole DRM trend started (MP games could be an exception).

 

[joeblow]

With Steam, you are not forced to pay a monthly/annual fee to Valve just to be able to play the online half of your entire game library that you already paid for.

 

[Gattsu25]

The used game market was nonexistent on PC for years before steam came out.

For most PC gamers, steam was replacing either non-tradable-disc+SecurRoM or Limewire+Trojans as their primary game acquisition model

Many console gamers are used to getting their games from friends or from eBay, etc. this was never an option on PC when steam came around.

 

[linkboy]

I think the reason why it never hits home is because the right explanations as to why they're not the same really aren't being brought forth very often. No offense to the OP, but from the standpoint of the people screaming that XBone isn't any different from Steam, most those are actually some pretty weak arguments. Saying it's not like Steam because it's just crappier and not as well done isn't really the point.

What needs to be emphasized is this: Steam is not a console. It is not trying to force anyone to do anything. It is merely one method of distribution of PC game content, a method that people choose to use because its benefits outweigh the restrictions. You can still buy almost every PC game you want in a store, and never tie it to a DD system.

The fact that this is a choice is extremely key here. Since Steam is not the only venue where PC games can be purchased, and since digital distribution lacks some of the incentives of physical media (particularly with regards to degree of ownership) they need to price competitively and do flash sales. Things that benefit the consumer.

PSN and XBox Marketplace are DD services like Steam. Albeit, poorly managed services that don't do much to make them significantly enticing over the alternative of purchasing physical copies in a fairly competitive marketplace. Nobody has a problem with this being an option.

What Microsoft is doing with the XBone is not trying to mimic Steam. They've already done that last generation. What they are trying to do is to eliminate any alternative methods of purchasing games by tying them all to the same system with the same restrictions. This makes it so that people no can no longer choose to buy games off of their version of Steam. They essentially have to. And when that's the case, consumers will have to suffer the restrictions without being able to reap the benefits. The benefits for the consumer won't be there, because with no alternative, the platform holder has no incentive to offer them.

Sums up how I feel perfectly.

 

[Metalmurphy]

.

Witcher 1 & 2 come to mind. I know there are others. The point is, it's not Steam or Valve putting those restrictions in place.


I can unplug my cable right now and my games will work, it's been that way for a long time. There was a bug in it yes, but it was fixed over a year ago.

 

[.hacked]

Id like to call bullshit on this.


I have purchased retail copies of PC games (from stores like Best Buy and CompUSA) that were nothing but a DVD and a code in a box. Never even used the DVD, just put the code into steam / origin / uplay and the game is unlocked.

I have a DVD with the game on it but it is useless after I use that code, been that way for as long as I can remember. No trade ins, no selling to my friends. Must have 200+ games unlocked on my PC that right now is disassembled because my graphics card fried. Cant do anything with those games, cant even gift them to my own brother so he can have them without giving over all my log in info.

So in the end what really is the difference with Xbox One? Oh wait is sounds a little better.

 

[eznark]

I bought Crysis 3 for $60 on Steam.

Tell me more

 

[Enco]

Steam has a written policy stating they would remove authentication requirements if Steam as a service shuts down and all games will remain playable. Sony and Microsoft have not done this yet.

Isn't that just wishful thinking? I don't think it has ever been fully confirmed.

Would be brilliant but can you really see people like Capcom/EA making all of their games DRM free? I can't.

Actually you could. Most PC games I played when I was young where either lend from friends or rented from stores.
But I have the impression that this was different in other countries, as I've read this multiple times in discussions like this. At least technically there wasn't anything stopping you from lending/renting/selling used PC games before the whole DRM trend started (MP games could be an exception).

I was never into gaming before DRM so maybe a loooong time ago it was cool to do.

For the most part once you activate a game on PC, that's it. No trading or lending. It's locked down for good.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I bought Crysis 3 for $60 on Steam. I can't trade it in, I can't lend it to a friend, I can't sell it, I don't own it....Yeah, this is absolutely nothing like the situation on the Xbox. I don't see any similarities there at all. What kind of retard would compare the two?

You bought Crysis 3 on Origin.

 

[-PXG-]

Somone IRL tried comparing Steam to the Xbone's policies. I had the urge to choke.

 

[coopolon]

lol no

Steam is a digital distribution service, as of now you can't sell your digital media anywhere weither it's be Steam, PSN, iOS or whatever. Until selling your digital media become an option there is no point in arguing otherwise.

You can sell your digital media on xbone. Only once, only if publiwhers allow it, and only to someone on your friends list for thirty days, but that is still more than steam let's you do.

I think the comparisons to steam are valid and interesting, because steam has shown hardcore gamers are willing to give up a lot that is associated with game ownership when the right conditions are met. Then we can talk about what those conditions are and how xbone is or is not meeting them.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I bought Crysis 3 for $60 on Steam. I can't trade it in, I can't lend it to a friend, I can't sell it, I don't own it....Yeah, this is absolutely nothing like the situation on the Xbox. I don't see any similarities there at all. What kind of retard would compare the two?

No you didn't.

 

[NullPointer]

The cost/benefit analysis is so thoroughly and completely out of whack between the two systems that they might as well be night and day.

The Xbox One platform consists entirely within itself: its policies, its officially allowed software, services and hardware. Thats it. Its a closed system - the alpha and omega of its costs and benefits.

Steam is an optional part of the PC platform, and the two combined provide the costs and benefits.

Neither system exists in a vacuum, so if people want to compare Steam and the Xbone in their real world application, you can't separate Steam from the PC platform. And once thats understood, Microsoft's always-connected initiative appears to be little more than a draconian litany of costs and restrictions.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Isn't that just wishful thinking? I don't think it has ever been fully confirmed.

Yes, it is not legally binding, but a policy statement is the first step.

 

[flying dutchman]

Im thinking that some of the people bringing up the steam arguement are doing so from office in a microsoft building or in the PR company office who is been paid by MS to do so. Reason for my opinion is that who in their right mind would think that the massive change and cash grab on gamers this next gen is good?

 

[spindashing]

I think the reason why it never hits home is because the right explanations as to why they're not the same really aren't being brought forth very often. No offense to the OP, but from the standpoint of the people screaming that XBone isn't any different from Steam, most those are actually some pretty weak arguments. Saying it's not like Steam because it's just crappier and not as well done isn't really the point.

What needs to be emphasized is this: Steam is not a console. It is not trying to force anyone to do anything. It is merely one method of distribution of PC game content, a method that people choose to use because its benefits outweigh the restrictions. You can still buy almost every PC game you want in a store, and never tie it to a DD system.

The fact that this is a choice is extremely key here. Since Steam is not the only venue where PC games can be purchased, and since digital distribution lacks some of the incentives of physical media (particularly with regards to degree of ownership) they need to price competitively and do flash sales. Things that benefit the consumer.

PSN and XBox Marketplace are DD services like Steam. Albeit, poorly managed services that don't do much to make them significantly enticing over the alternative of purchasing physical copies in a fairly competitive marketplace. Nobody has a problem with this being an option.

What Microsoft is doing with the XBone is not trying to mimic Steam. They've already done that last generation. What they are trying to do is to eliminate any alternative methods of purchasing games by tying them all to the same system with the same restrictions. This makes it so that people no can no longer choose to buy games off of their version of Steam. They essentially have to. And when that's the case, consumers will have to suffer the restrictions without being able to reap the benefits. The benefits for the consumer won't be there, because with no alternative, the platform holder has no incentive to offer them.

Beautiful post and I hope you don't mind me referring to this post in the future.

 

[Trent Strong]

You bought Crysis 3 on Origin.

Did I? On well, substitute Crysis 3 for Metro Last Light or any one of a bunch of other games that I did buy for full price on steam.