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[Hazaro]

Couple of quick questions

- brain stew, will you be posting a new UK higher performance setup with 5850/i5 or similar?

- how small and quiet can a performance system get? I have a mac mini as a media centre and I'm curious whether it could be replaced with something that can also do games. Doesn't need to be silent for gaming but does need to be silent when in idle (running sabnzbd) and when playing media

if not doable I can just set it up on my bedroom

Not mac mini small, but there are certainly small and low profile cards and cases. You can buy passive heatsinks and near silent fans as well.

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah, I've seen shuttle cases etc. But I have to compromise on power? I haven't games on a PC for years now and if I do I want to do it properly

eg if I can't get something like an i5 and 5870/5850 with SLI capability for futurproofing then I'll probably just forget that plan and hook it up to a monitor upstairs with some headphones

 

[brain_stew]

Ugh, never built a PC before but that new $550 rig is extremely tempting. I'm just concerned that I wouldn't put it together right and I'd burn down my house. :lol

I might give it a whirl though. That is an excellent deal.

Honestly its much easier than you'd think it it is. To allay your fears, order one of these now (delivery may take a while and they're have anyway):

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20440

Attach it to a metal part of your case while working, and never work on carpet, I'd usually recommend putting the motherboard together outside of the case on the static bag it came in, the chances of damaging it through static damage are so tiny but I know myself its a worry you'll have.


Check out tech report's excellent builder's guide here and sign upto Ebuyer's forums to see the second guide as well:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/13671
http://forums.ebuyer.com/showthread.php?t=19603

and watch a few Youtube videos on the subject as well. Motherboard manuals are excellent these days, really helpful and there's always plenty here on GAF to help out as well. Its a lot easier than you think, I only put together my first rig about 18 months ago, a good tip I found was to take it slow and make sure you have a whole evening set aside.

 

[brain_stew]

Yeah, I've seen shuttle cases etc. But I have to compromise on power? I haven't games on a PC for years now and if I do I want to do it properly

eg if I can't get something like an i5 and 5870/5850 with SLI capability for futurproofing then I'll probably just forget that plan and hook it up to a monitor upstairs with some headphones

Nah, you absolutely can build a high performance rig in a shuttle, you've just got to be extra careful with things like airflow and cooling. Most 5850 designs blow the hot air out the back of the case which is a huge headache saver for a small rig, and there's plenty of i5 compatible mATX motherboards.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Honestly its much easier than you'd think it it is. To allay your fears, order one of these now (delivery may take a while and they're have anyway):

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20440

Attach it to a metal part of your case while working, and never work on carpet, I'd usually recommend putting the motherboard together outside of the case on the static bag it came in, the chances of damaging it through static damage are so tiny but I know myself its a worry you'll have.


Check out tech report's excellent builder's guide here and sign upto Ebuyer's forums to see the second guide as well:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/13671
http://forums.ebuyer.com/showthread.php?t=19603

and watch a few Youtube videos on the subject as well. Motherboard manuals are excellent these days, really helpful and there's always plenty here on GAF to help out as well. Its a lot easier than you think, I only put together my first rig about 18 months ago, a good tip I found was to take it slow and make sure you have a whole evening set aside.

This is definitely all true. Just take your time and read the manual and before lighting it up just double check everything. Don't rush, there's no race to how quickly you can finish it and even if you've built them your whole life, rushing usually makes you forget at least some small part. And like Brain_stew said, the more you read up and watch a couple videos at it the better you feel. Plus like he said, the gaf community is pretty good and helpful if you have any questions/need help so don't be afraid to ask while building it.

 

[Kosma]

Brain stew you really are putting in the work on this thread man.

 

[leroy hacker]

The $550 pc sounds like a great deal. Thanks for all the work in this thread. I think I may be jumping into high-tech PC gaming very soon.

However, I'm going to want a wireless keyboard and mouse. Can anyone suggest a cheap and reliable solution? I think what I want is a wireless keyboard with at least one USB port, so that I can plug in a gamepad if I want. Also, I'd preferably like one that runs on AAs.

 

[Mariner]

Thanks guys! I'll let you know if I end up doing it. I'm really leaning towards it right now!

 

[onegoodlogan]

However, I'm going to want a wireless keyboard and mouse. Can anyone suggest a cheap and reliable solution? I think what I want is a wireless keyboard with at least one USB port, so that I can plug in a gamepad if I want..

Can't think of any wireless keyboards with usb ports. Your best bet would be to just go for a separate wireless controller.

 

[brain_stew]

The $550 pc sounds like a great deal. Thanks for all the work in this thread. I think I may be jumping into high-tech PC gaming very soon.

However, I'm going to want a wireless keyboard and mouse. Can anyone suggest a cheap and reliable solution? I think what I want is a wireless keyboard with at least one USB port, so that I can plug in a gamepad if I want. Also, I'd preferably like one that runs on AAs.

You might have trouble with that, just get the 360 wireless gaming receiver + controller bundle, job done.

 

[Durante]

Yeah, I've seen shuttle cases etc. But I have to compromise on power? I haven't games on a PC for years now and if I do I want to do it properly

Well, basically there's
(1) very high performance
(2) small
(3) silent
And you may choose 2. (I always go with 1 and 3)

 

[Jake]

brain_stew thanks for this thread. The $800 rig build was a great starting point to for someone who hasn't been paying attention to PC hardware since ~2002.

(A couple of the items you linked on NewEgg for the $800 build have been discontinued or are replaced with alternate, slightly pricier promos, but with some shuffling around and other investigating online I was able to build a system I think I'll be very pleased with that's well within my budget.)

 

[Chris R]

Newegg is out of the 5770 listed in your post brain_stew

Now to try to find another decent company with a good 5770 in stock and for cheap.

edit: Ah Amazon has it as well, and I can get free shipping so I don't pay 30$ extra :lol

Now just to talk to my brother.

 

[SapientWolf]

brain_stew thanks for this thread. The $800 rig build was a great starting point to for someone who hasn't been paying attention to PC hardware since ~2002.

(A couple of the items you linked on NewEgg for the $800 build have been discontinued or are replaced with alternate, slightly pricier promos, but with some shuffling around and other investigating online I was able to build a system I think I'll be very pleased with that's well within my budget.)

Is there a new $800 build link? Because, judging by the PC build thread, the new $800 build is an i5/5850 rig.

 

[Jake]

Yeah, I was looking in both threads and saw the $800 stuff in here was from summer. Just having that as a starting point was enough to get me motivated to spec out a machine starting from that blueprint and working up with newer info.

For a lot of people I bet just having a string of Newegg links for the necessary components to get a cart started is the push it takes.

 

[sgnhh]

Maybe some of you guys can help me out with this question, I haven't been paying attention to the PC hardware for a couple years. My current setup is this:

Athlon 64 X2 6000+ (3GHz)
4GB DDR2 800
HD 4850 512MB
500W PSU

I'm getting a 27" iMac, but wouldn't mind having my current system around to act as a gaming PC to connect to it (27" iMac supports mini-Display Port in). Would it be worth it to eventually upgrade to a 5850 or 5870, or would I be bottlenecked by my other components?

 

[leroy hacker]

Can't think of any wireless keyboards with usb ports. Your best bet would be to just go for a separate wireless controller.

Damn, I wanted to use a Saturn USB. Can you suggest a good wireless controller?

 

[brain_stew]

brain_stew thanks for this thread. The $800 rig build was a great starting point to for someone who hasn't been paying attention to PC hardware since ~2002.

(A couple of the items you linked on NewEgg for the $800 build have been discontinued or are replaced with alternate, slightly pricier promos, but with some shuffling around and other investigating online I was able to build a system I think I'll be very pleased with that's well within my budget.)

The $800 rig is outdated now. You want to be going core i5 750 + 5850 + 4GB DDR3 + P55 mobo with that sort of cash these days. I'll be updating those builds when I can.

 

[brain_stew]

Damn, I wanted to use a Saturn USB. Can you suggest a good wireless controller?

Its hardly the most elegant solution but a USB repeater will make the cord long enough at least:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812224004

The 360 pad is the wireless controller of choice but ofcourse its no good for 2D games. Buying a cheap $2 Bluetooth adapter will mean you can use your Wii classic controller if you already have one, by using GlovePIE:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11866

The PS3 SFIV pads are probably a good choice, I presume they work (as they just use a USB dongle).

 

[leroy hacker]

Buying a cheap $2 Bluetooth adapter will mean you can use your Wii classic controller if you already have one, by using GlovePIE:

Thanks, I think that will be the solution for me. I had no idea bluetooth adapters were so cheap.

 

[Chris Remo]

The $800 rig is outdated now. You want to be going core i5 750 + 5850 + 4GB DDR3 + P55 mobo with that sort of cash these days. I'll be updating those builds when I can.

How meaningful a change would it be, do you think, to go from an E6600 to the i5 750? I build my current PC two years ago. I'm planning to pick up one of the new Seasonic X-650 PSUs when it comes out (I guess it's technically out, but it doesn't seem to be in stock at retailers yet) and since when you replace your PSU you're pretty much hooking everything up all over again, I figured it might be a good excuse to do a CPU/mobo upgrade. I'm fine with my 4870 for now, and that's the easiest thing to replace later anyway.

So what are your thoughts on that? Are games these days too GPU-limited for it to matter, especially since I like to run at 1920x1200 as often as possible?

 

[brain_stew]

How meaningful a change would it be, do you think, to go from an E6600 to the i5 750? I build my current PC two years ago. I'm planning to pick up one of the new Seasonic X-650 PSUs when it comes out (I guess it's technically out, but it doesn't seem to be in stock at retailers yet) and since when you replace your PSU you're pretty much hooking everything up all over again, I figured it might be a good excuse to do a CPU/mobo upgrade. I'm fine with my 4870 for now, and that's the easiest thing to replace later anyway.

So what are your thoughts on that? Are games these days too GPU-limited for it to matter, especially since I like to run at 1920x1200 as often as possible?

Its going to be game dependant really, and at such a high resolution, I'd imagine more games will be GPU rather than CPU limited. Overclocking to 3ghz+ (which a $20 cooler will manage just fine) is a good alternative to tide you over for another year, at which point you can make the switch to Sandy Bridge.

 

[Doytch]

I was in the same boat a few months back and ended up sticking with my E6600@3GHz rather than buying a new proc/mobo/ram. The benchmarks I saw weren't enough to convince me it was worth it (though that was when only the i7s were out - might be a different value proposition now with i5s).

Here's a couple graphs, I'd slot the E6600 with an overclock somewhere around the Q6600, though a bit lower. These are with a GTX 280.

 

[brain_stew]

I was in the same boat a few months back and ended up sticking with my E6600@3GHz rather than buying a new proc/mobo/ram. The benchmarks I saw weren't enough to convince me it was worth it (though that was when only the i7s were out - might be a different value proposition now with i5s).

Here's a couple graphs, I'd slot the E6600 with an overclock somewhere around the Q6600, though a bit lower. These are with a GTX 280.

Similar position myself, I have an E5200 (which performs right on par with a E6600 at stock and will clock similarly well) + GTX 260 @ 1080p and with my chip OCed to 3.6ghz I just don't see the need in upgrading. There's no real games that need more than two cores yet and whilst there's those that do seriously benefit from it (like GTA4 and Ghostbusters for instance) still play fine with two fast cores anyway.

Might as well hold out another year and get a Sandy Bridge config for my money.

 

[Chris Remo]

Cool, thanks for the advice. I'll just treat the PSU replacement as an opportunity to de-dust my PC's interior and do some tidier rewiring, and I'll worry about a true rebuild later on.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

How is this:

But with a 4770 and 2GB RAM?

 

[brain_stew]

How is this:

But with a 4770 and 2GB RAM?

Nah, can't recommend any of that really. That motherboard is a disastr waiting to happen and the CPU is outdated trash, 2GB of RAM doesn't cut it these days either. Just save up until you can afford something along the lines of the £400 config. Cheaping out like this is only going to cost you more money in the long run.

An IDE CD drive, really? Come the fuck on, you don't want to buy that thing, believe me. That HDD will be slow as fuck as well, and 80GB is barely enough for an OS and a couple of games these days, with a super, super quick 500GB (Samsung F3) drive available for just over £40, you've got to be crazy to buy anything less. The only consideration is whether to spend the extra £20 to upgrade to the 1TB version.

Basically what I'm saying is that those parts are junk, avoid at all costs. You can get yourself excellent components for just an extra ~£100 more, the gap in quality and usefulness (especially in regards to future upgrades and the like) is massive.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Thanks for the input. Is the 5770 better than the 4870, if so would I be able to put a 5770 in there or would I have to change the mobo? Thanks for all your help and great work on this thread .

 

[Torhthelm Tídwald]

I want to get a new graphics card. I don't need that good of one; if it can play Psychonauts at 1440x900 without it stuttering that's fine.

I foresee two problems:

1: I only have a 250 watt power supply.

2: It is a Dell Insperon 530s with a slimline case. It has a couple PCI-E slots, but only about 6.5 cm from the slot to the edge of case.

I'm currently using integrated graphics, so pretty much anything would be an improvement. Do I have any hope, or should I just wait until I can get a new PC?

The CPU is a Pentium Dual CPU E2180 @ 2.0 GHz and it has 2 gigs of RAM. It's only a year and a half old but it is a stock Dell that I got as a gift.

 

[brain_stew]

Cool, thanks for the advice. I'll just treat the PSU replacement as an opportunity to de-dust my PC's interior and do some tidier rewiring, and I'll worry about a true rebuild later on.

What sort of CPU cooling have you got? Even if you're not planning to OC, spending $20 to cut down on noise and increase reliability isn't a bad investment in my book.

 

[brain_stew]

Thanks for the input. Is the 5770 better than the 4870, if so would I be able to put a 5770 in there or would I have to change the mobo? Thanks for all your help and great work on this thread .

Pretty much on par. The 5770 consumes less power, is a better HTPC card and is fully DX11 compliant but the 4870 is a good chunk cheaper. Its a tradeoff, depends what your priorites are. They're interchangeable.

 

[brain_stew]

I want to get a new graphics card. I don't need that good of one; if it can play Psychonauts at 1440x900 without it stuttering that's fine.

I foresee two problems:

1: I only have a 250 watt power supply.

2: It is a Dell Insperon 530s with a slimline case. It has a couple PCI-E slots, but only about 6.5 cm from the slot to the edge of case.

I'm currently using integrated graphics, so pretty much anything would be an improvement. Do I have any hope, or should I just wait until I can get a new PC?

The CPU is a Pentium Dual CPU E2180 @ 2.0 GHz and it has 2 gigs of RAM. It's only a year and a half old but it is a stock Dell that I got as a gift.

This is your best bet, I reckon:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131151

 

[Chris Remo]

What sort of CPU cooling have you got? Even if you're not planning to OC, spending $20 to cut down on noise and increase reliability isn't a bad investment in my book.

My CPU is overclocked to 3.0GHz. I have a Zalman 9700, and it's the second-biggest contributor to the noise level (although the PSU much moreso overall). This weekend I actually placed an order for an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro from Newegg. It was $30-something after shipping, which is fine.

 

[Torhthelm Tídwald]

Thanks. I figure I'll be building a new computer (for the first time) in a year or so, but I wanted something to give my stretch out the life of my current one.

 

[Jeff Stephen]

I'm slowly getting back into PC gaming after falling in love with the simplicity of Steam. Since I've been out of the loop with the latest hardware for a couple of months now, I was wondering what's the best video card out there for under $100.

 

[imprecise!]

Looking to tap the unrelenting knowledge of brain_stew, or anyone more knowledgeable than I!

I'm currently using:

Athlon 64 X2 4000+ (running at 2.5)
Radeon 4870 1gb
4gb ddr2 800
(with Windows 7 64bit)


I upgraded to the 4870 recently but obviously the cpu is a pretty big bottleneck. I'm thinking about finally just jumping in for an all new cpu, motherboard and memory and I've seen the core i5-750 and Gigabyte p55 mentioned a few times. How's this combo deal look? http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.280597

 

[brain_stew]

Looking to tap the unrelenting knowledge of brain_stew, or anyone more knowledgeable than I!

I'm currently using:

Athlon 64 X2 4000+ (running at 2.5)
Radeon 4870 1gb
4gb ddr2 800
(with Windows 7 64bit)


I upgraded to the 4870 recently but obviously the cpu is a pretty big bottleneck. I'm thinking about finally just jumping in for an all new cpu, motherboard and memory and I've seen the core i5-750 and Gigabyte p55 mentioned a few times. How's this combo deal look? http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.280597

There's a decent chance your motherboard will be able to take a Phenom ii 940, with just a simple BIOS flash. Sure the performance won't be quite as good but it won't be huge difference either and it'll save you $250.

That combo is excellent though, its what I plan to base the "high end config" around, which is done but with no 5850s in stock I'm holding fire for now.

 

[onegoodlogan]

Damn, I wanted to use a Saturn USB. Can you suggest a good wireless controller?

PS3 controllers work with a special driver, in addition to the pads suggested above I'd recommend the Logitech Cordless Rumblepad 2. I haven't used that exact model, but the Logitech pads I have used have had pretty damn solid d-pads.

 

[shintoki]

Gaf, I need to bring my 2gigs of Ram up to 4gigs. Suggestions and how to do it! I have never bought ram or touch any part of it before :lol

I believe I have two 1g ram, with 4 possible slots. So would it be better to buy two 2, or an extra 2 1's. And compatibility issues?

 

[imprecise!]

There's a decent chance your motherboard will be able to take a Phenom ii 940, with just a simple BIOS flash. Sure the performance won't be quite as good but it won't be huge difference either and it'll save you $250.

That combo is excellent though, its what I plan to base the "high end config" around, which is done but with no 5850s in stock I'm holding fire for now.

Eh, my motherboard is a shitty gigabyte micro atx that I'm pretty sure has been haunted for the last two years with all the random problems I've had pop up. That's another motivating factor for the upgrade. Saving $250 is tempting though...maybe newegg sells holy water.

 

[Hazaro]

Gaf, I need to bring my 2gigs of Ram up to 4gigs. Suggestions and how to do it! I have never bought ram or touch any part of it before :lol

I believe I have two 1g ram, with 4 possible slots. So would it be better to buy two 2, or an extra 2 1's. And compatibility issues?

Better to have 2 x 2GB sticks. Easier on motherboard and less issues you can run into.

 

[Chris R]

Yay! 5770 should be here this time next week

 

[Fodder76]

This has probably been asked at some point in this thread, but, Brain_Stew, would you think these rigs would run 3d programs like 3DS MAX or Maya very well?

I'm looking to get a new system, but ideally it runs both games and 3D software really well.

Thanks!

 

[HisshouBuraiKen]

Wife and I are building our first PC together as a christmas gift to ourselves This is going to be an all-around workhorse for gaming and media storage / playback. Basically a gaming machine + HTPC duties minus DVRing (unless I can wrangle an old tuner from a guy I know).

What does GAF and the mighty brain_stew think of this build? Where are my bottlenecks? Where am I spending too much? Our budget is about $950, but about $220 of that is reserved for two 1TB HDDs so I effectively have $750 to work with. No need for a monitor or optical drives. I basically want this thing to last at LEAST five years and still provide respectable performance (I'll live if I can't play Bioshock 4 on max settings down the road as long as I can stay above 30fps)

COOLER MASTER Centurion 534 RC-534
EDIT: OCZ Obsidian 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) x 2
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz + ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard
XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 + Antec TruePower New TP-750 750W Continuous Power
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" x 2

$985 shipped - $70 rebates = $915 with the HDDs / $685 if you don't include them.

I haven't looked too hard at the mobo yet, it was just the best rated one out of the combo deals with the biggest discount, and I KNOW the PSU is WAAAAY more than I'll need but again, with the combo discount it's not much more than the one in the $500 build and gives me plenty of room to expand if I ever decide to go crossfire or 16GB ram or something.

Improvements and alternate suggestions are more than welcome. This is my first time building a computer with something other than Dell's laptop customizer

 

[J Tourettes]

I have a Dell dimension 9200 with an E6400 cpu 2.13Ghz, 2gb 533mhz DDR2 and an ATI X1300 Pro. I've not got enough spare cash floating around to build a new pc at the mo (although it is something I'd like to do at some point as I'd like to get into PC gaming a bit more). Would it be worth my time getting a new Graphic card and more ram with that CPU? I'm a complete PC gaming noob so any answers would be much apprecaited.

Thanks.

 

[ACE 1991]

So my current PC is dying and my parents have agreed to purchase me a laptop. What does GAF recommend for $500-$600? This isn't for gaming, mind you. Mostly web surfing and school work. Although being able to play something here and there would be nice.

I'm currently thinking about this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834101196

Are gateway laptops reliable?

 

[Chris Remo]

I have a Dell dimension 9200 with an E6400 cpu 2.13Ghz, 2gb 533mhz DDR2 and an ATI X1300 Pro. I've not got enough spare cash floating around to build a new pc at the mo (although it is something I'd like to do at some point as I'd like to get into PC gaming a bit more). Would it be worth my time getting a new Graphic card and more ram with that CPU? I'm a complete PC gaming noob so any answers would be much apprecaited.

Thanks.

I think so. I've been running an E6600 for a while and it's pretty much fine for everything, and a fairly quick search seems to suggest those two chips aren't all that different in real-world terms.

 

[Septimus]

How does the Athlon II X4 compare to the Phenom II X4, and also the Core i5?

 

[Vinci]

Sometime either at the end of this year or early next I'm going to need to put together a new gaming rig. Never built one myself, but based on what I'm reading around here it isn't so insanely difficult and can definitely save some money. At any rate, I'm certainly glad this thread exists and that you folks are willing to share your expertise. Hopefully the new rig can last as long as the old one has.

 

[ChoklitReign]

So my current PC is dying and my parents have agreed to purchase me a laptop. What does GAF recommend for $500-$600? This isn't for gaming, mind you. Mostly web surfing and school work. Although being able to play something here and there would be nice.

I'm currently thinking about this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834101196

Are gateway laptops reliable?

Just get a netbook. For $400 you can get an HP Mini 311 that has a high-resolution display and can play HD video and a few games. If you care more about battery life get one of the EEE PCs.