TheExecutive
Member
So more of an enthusiast than a journalist? Serious question.
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Game journalist criticism of peer sites
- Thread starter TheExecutive
- Start date
No, CNN is just boring.
Yall are calling for something that can't exist. No ones gonna be a "news article/rumor/vid editorial policeman" that calls out site. What other industry has this?
Thought out, critical, even handed peer reviews should be the goal. There are plenty of academic fields that serve as the model.
Thought out, critical, even handed peer reviews should be the goal. There are plenty of academic fields that serve as the model.
Neuromancer
Member
Is it really? On the one hand that would be a shame because there are occasionally excellent and well researched features like this one. On the other hand, there's Gies...
Glass Shark
Banned
Let the fanboy rage ensue.
Glass Shark
Banned
If you want to put it that way, sure. I've never really liked the term "journalist" for what I do. I write things, yes, but that label carries so much baggage. My goal is to share my honest feelings about things I like. Sometimes that involves criticism, sometimes more in-depth research and reporting.
JesseEwiak
Member
The issue, some people here want 60 Minutes, when in reality, they're getting Entertainment Weekly. Which is fine, in my eyes. I'm sure there's people who complain there's no peer-reviewed analytic articles about the latest episodes of The Vampire Diaries.
TheExecutive
Member
Of course. I am not looking for controversy. I thought I had stated that. Critical peer review is sorely missing from the gaming industry. Sorry if that wasnt explicitly stated in the OP.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
And that's how it is handled in other enthusiast press such as in automotive world.
TheExecutive
Member
Fair enough. I still don't know your position. I suppose I could look you up
. Enthusiast may be a better name for what you do. Journalism is fundamentally different then that which has been expressed in your response.famousmortimer
Banned
This isn't 'insider' info. There are sites that track hits. And then look at the size and number of high profile writers they have and then make assumptions. That's what I did.
I honestly don't know a goddamn thing about Polygon's financials. I was being facetious. Any of these sites can go under at any time is what I've taken away from the last several years. So my second paragraph is more topical.
As for the other post talking about Gies bad-mouthing people. Let's be realistic... there's only one company he really wants to work for.
... it's the criticism that they are posting. Do they have to spell it out in a special segment called "GAMES JOURNALISM WATCH" so that you understand what is happening? Or can they just criticize another site's reporting or opinions on a case by case basis?
Academia is different because it is largely a zero-sum game. There are a limited number of articles accepted for the top publications. Criticizing and discrediting poor work (or opposing viewpoints) creates an opening for your own publications and increases your influence. Moreover, peer review in academia is often a double-blind process, so you are free to criticize someone else's work without making them your enemy.
The same dynamic does not exist between game writers. On the other hand, we have tons of game forums where semi-anonymous authors are more than happy to rip the shit out of any article that gets published. So I'm left wondering why a peer review system is appropriate or necessary for video game writers.
I would like to see a critique of the "Top Ten Hot Gaming Babes With Tattoos" feature that always pops up on gaming rags. To be honest, they're all probably friends with each other, plus it's easier to get hits with articles like my example than doing actual critiquing.
TheExecutive
Member
I dont quite buy that even a case by case basis occurs. I really do see much more of an isolationist policy than I do a community of journalists. Just my observation of course.
JesseEwiak
Member
Bingo. Like I said, if you want deep peer-reviewed articles about pixels in video games, you're just as on the fringe as people who want deep peer-reviewed articles about reality shows or Katy Perry albums.
famousmortimer
Banned
Did you have any specific articles in mind that you feel should have been criticized by other websites but weren't?
TheExecutive
Member
Well I will agree with the latter part of your first paragraph. However, I am not asking for a peer review system- I am asking for fact checking.
TheExecutive
Member
I watched Sessler and his response to resolution-gate. thought it might bring about thoughtful discussion on journalism in gaming.
lol I do actually.
I mean there are sites like politifact and factcheck.org that just don't exist/don't need to exist in games journalism. In a perfect world they would, but there is just no real financial/moral reason to.
I like how you show up in like every thread involving games journalism. And I don't mean that sarcastically, it's nice to have someone in the industry weight in, even if your responses can be snarky sometimes haha
TheExecutive
Member
Exactly. I just want a segment on a known website that is a facts.org. It's needed and maybe I need to start a weekly fact check OP.
His E3 video talking about the PS4 costing more than the Xbone if you include the camera and PS+ (but inexplicably make Xbox Live free) was even worse.
chickdigger802
Banned
sessler's been doing good stuff over there. Brilliant having google chats with viewers, even though it might get groan worthy, people can ask whatever, and he's always enthusiastic about answering stuff.
The absolute worse are the gaming press that just snark and dismiss their audience all the time.
HovaHovito
Banned
Seems unprofessional and childish
Not this garbage again
People always put that out of context
You even put words in his mouth
Not this garbage again
People always put that out of context
You even put words in his mouth
I agree, I just wanted to note that he had no compunction about impugning the integrity of dozens of other games reviewers just because they happened to like Vanquish more than he did.
TheExecutive
Member
That's fair enough. However, I still cant ignore BS when I see it. I dont have the time with the career I have to sit around and monitor gaming journalism but if someone was willing to take the reigns here at neogaf that would just fact check without an agenda I would me more than willing to contribute content on a weekly basis.
Yes, Arthur Gies' innapropriate tweets to Albert Penello with the objective of disclosing non-public information that had nothing to do with Microsoft.
SeventhSon
Member
What was this about?
60% bullshit (CNN) != 90% bullshit (FOX) != 10% bullshit (Dailyshow)
Stop making false equivalencies as bad as our press made between the actions of the Democratic and Republican parties in the past year.
Reposting from a thread a few days ago:
Of course.
This exchange happened on Twitter:
You'll recall that this was right after the 720p rumor came out, but was not related to that -- Sessler started tweeting mysteriously, and Gies joined in. At the time we didn't know what it was about, but now we do, and as Gies mentioned it had nothing to do with Microsoft. It was about Sony sending review units to the press.
Gies then proceeded to quickly delete the tweet.
As Jim Sterling has explained since then, this was indeed about the Sony event in New York and how it would work.
NDA or not (I have no way of knowing whether or not this information was actually NDA'd), Gies felt it was better to share the information with a company that had nothing to do with it then with his readers.
Mugatu
Member
Exactly, which is one of the reasons there is no gaming journalism. There are only press releases.
I don't think that's true. Kotaku, among a few others, have been doing a great job at writing some very deep, long form articles on several aspects of the industry recently.
I think it's important to distinguish the good from the bad in order to encourage the former.
RockTurtle
Member
can i pm you an essay for kotaku?
Whoa! He should know better.
I can't stand gies.
agreed, sess does some great stuff, even though his ideas don't always line up with most of GAFs. Most people hate it, but I really like his reviews where he seems to really deeply analyze video game stories on an almost literary level. I think there is room for that in the industry.
Can you link me to Vinny's posts? Sounds interesting. If it's too much trouble to find don't worry about it
This happens everywhere, blogs in particular are outside the legal scope that most "traditional" journalists are bound to, so trading favors for coverage is very common and not just gaming but all of tech.
The problem as others have said is what do you win by burning bridges? its a small community and getting labeled as the guy who embarrassed everyone isn't going to help you at all. Readers are going to care for only a while before moving to the next stupid topten list on their feeds.
The problem as others have said is what do you win by burning bridges? its a small community and getting labeled as the guy who embarrassed everyone isn't going to help you at all. Readers are going to care for only a while before moving to the next stupid topten list on their feeds.
The press does need to be called out... but then it would just be the press calling itself out. Watching people bend over backwards and equivocate with this "720p vs. 1080p" and the "If you like your health care plan you can keep it" BS at the same time allows for some interesting parallels between both media.
Publically critcizing an outlet or writer is a bad look. While you may feel a publication is doing poor work its best to duscuss ot with writers in private. The only exception would be if a writer were caught plagirizing or fabricating stories. In that case, they would be ridiculed.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Every time Anti-Vinny's name comes up on here, it's with some new unethical giesing that he's been up to I didn't know about. Amazing.
I'd hazard a guess there's human decency and fact-checking, but also networking in a shrinking, unstable field, dependance on publishers, and some high-school-esque peer pressure, too.
I'd hazard a guess there's human decency and fact-checking, but also networking in a shrinking, unstable field, dependance on publishers, and some high-school-esque peer pressure, too.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Does "Entertainment Tonight" fact check "Access Hollywood"? Game "journalists" are entertainment reporters
jongkookie
Member
Honestly, nobody outside of hardcore gamers give a shit about the gaming press. I'm in journalism school right now and nobody here wants to be the next Adam Sessler or Arthur Gies. It's all about being the next Anderson Cooper or Nate Silver.
Seriously, the gaming press is in the same rank as TMZ or those celeb news sites. As a gamer it's quite sad but then again the moment I see the shit that goes on in here, yeah... no thank you.
Seriously, the gaming press is in the same rank as TMZ or those celeb news sites. As a gamer it's quite sad but then again the moment I see the shit that goes on in here, yeah... no thank you.
digoutyoursoul
Member
They don't want to be them because they are not journalists. Are you aiming for video game press as maybe a way to get any sort of experience or are you looking for other subjects ?
Saintguine
Member
The last guy to do so was fired, thrown under the bus and character assassinated despite being vindicated.