Fake
Member
I guess is Microsoft fault for this consumers mentality. They could make Game Pass with little delay releases at least of their exclusives since GP launch.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Game Pass is hurting day one software sales on Xbox could this push publishers & devs away from Xbox Scarlett or will they wait it out?
- Status
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
I haven't bought a 2nd hand game for well over a year or however long gamepass has been running as I'll normally buy a game I not sure of 2nd hand. Yeah I've got Gamepass cheap but I'll continue paying full price if a have to, £7.99 it's a bargain at that price.
The only 2nd hand games I've bought have been on ps4 but now I'm starting thinking fuck that I got gamepass.
The only 2nd hand games I've bought have been on ps4 but now I'm starting thinking fuck that I got gamepass.
Fuz
Banned
Last edited:
Slings and Arrows
Banned
This is just my situation but if Gamepass didn't exist, I wouldn't own an xbox. I would have no reason to.
JLB
Banned
Why as a consumer you are worried about that? Are you stakeholder?
xrnzaaas
Member
Exactly. I understand Microsoft for wanting to attract as many people as possible, but I think they've sweetened the deal too much. Imo people would still sub if they only had to wait a month or two months to play the next big first party title and Microsoft could still sell the game to those wanting to play from day1.
The Alien
Banned
Agreed
...and many that do put AAA on their do so months after release to boost added sales.
demigod
Member
Why do you want to see the receipts when its been out already? Are you playing dumb? The game bombed on NPD and UK sales. Don't pretend Gamepass wasn't the cause of this.
DoctorEkkoUK
Member
The fact is we don't know what the payment model is for gamepass, it could be microsoft are giving studios very attractive rates like a couple of dollars per download. that might not sound like much but when the game is basically free to the gamepass users the chances are for a lot of games a lot more people will download the game then wouldve bought it at full price so instead of maybe getting 10,000 full price sales in the first month they might get 150,000 gamepass downloads. not only does this even out the amount of money it makes but it means that people who are playing the game on gamepass for ""free"" who like the game will probably be more likely to pay for DLC for it since they haven'y really spent any money on the game yet from their point of view.
this is just my guess of how it works but it makes sense to me.
ResilientBanana
Member
But what some people here don't understand is that, sales may have bombed, but that does not equate to the developer not making money. They receive money through Gamepass based on a lot of factors of their game existing on the service. The retail space is dying as games transition to subscription based services. So that is a sign of retail failing, not particularly the game itself.
EDITED
Last edited:
zeorhymer
Member
I don't think NPD reported yet and UK doesn't count digital sales.
Elenchus
Banned
Thought it bombed because it was only an 85 meta and therefore a bad game? Let me know when you all get the narrative straight.
demigod
Member
It has, and digital sales doesn't make up much. Actually iirc I thought they said Gears sales for digital was down for UK? Could be wrong on that.
Placing 7th on NPD launch month is not good.
Son, what the fuck are you on? I didn't say the game was bad. Learn to READ.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
If they didn't feel they're compensated enough by Microsoft, they wouldn't be on game pass to boost their copies sold in traditional channels. Why would they ditch xbox and not just game pass if it turns out game pass doesn't work for them? Or do you think Microsoft forces them to do that and pays nothing in return on top?
Last edited:
thelastword
Banned
They want to build gamepass and grow it out, but to do so, they have to make some sacrifices....That is give a few of their triple AAA games out on gamepass day 1 and reduce $60 per head revenue on these games, where most people will go for $2 gamepass subs as opposed to paying $60......Some are already subbed to Gamepass ultimate for years already and did so with very little money, so no extra money from them day 1...…..MS bet huge on gamepass, but I'm not sure they growth they seek with gamepass, even with $1 or $2 subs is being realized..............You really don't have any incentive to pay $60 for an MS first party title......You simply get gamepass on any RX 570 PC, the games play better there anyway at 60fps 1080p-1440p with 16x aniso and AA......You simply sub when there's a big release which I think Gears is the last big one till next-gen......So what are gamepasser's going to play in the next year for another $2 sub form MS? No Forza till next gen, no Halo......What's next? Some third party games? It's not looking lucrative at all for MS's bottomline…...
But are you also playing games & buying DLC for games that you most likely would have overlooked?
How does that help you?
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
No. I've literally installed Forza Horizon 4, deleted it after 2 hours, Installed gow5 and was thankfully I've not spent 60usd on it.
Outer Worlds is probably good though.
Gamepass is trully amazing and I've recommended it to friends. But for me right now it's useless as I have played most of these games that interest me on steam
Bkdk
Member
Not really, sony and Nintendo might have to push their own super cheap game subscription service as well. Games these days rarely worth full or more price, most are just improved graphics and nothing more. Physics and AI are basically the same since 2005. If that’s the case games should be easier and cheaper than ever to make.
mejin
Member
Phil Spencer saw this post and laughed
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
How do you know that the revenue they are receiving from their Game Pass deal is not offsetting the revenue they lost by not selling the games full-priced? I imagine a lot of people who would otherwise not have played their games are actually playing them through Game Pass, but of course I have no concrete data.
You know why. Console wars.
Last edited by a moderator:
joe_zazen
Member
Sony has been around since the 1940s and uses it’s name recognition and movie assets to get a leg up and MS uses its money. Who’s to say what’s fair? It’s business.
Most businesses don’t break even for their first 5 years because they have to discount their goods or services until they gain consumer confidence and enough market share to sustain themselves.
EGS is a new platform. Game Pass is a new platform. So is Mixer by the way. Them running in the red early would be neither surprising nor novel (assuming that’s the case because we don’t know).
No one would be able to break into a new market if there was a requirement to be profitable on day one.
Hell Uber and Lyft are still not profitable last time I checked. This is an accepted and expected part of the normal business cycle.
Game Pass subscription fees will rise over time just like Netflix’s fees did.
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13694225/export_QPPQY.png)
The history of Netflix price increases in a single chart
Subscribers will now pay between $9 and $16 per month, depending on the service.www.vox.com
the government says what is fair in business which is why crony capitalism and corporatism hasnt been able to run completely amok. i guess you dont know about robber barons, standard oil, Microsoft in the 90s, korean chaebols, etc. and the tactics used to kill competition?
anyway, without govt oversight and prevention of predatory tactics, it would be a matter of a decade or two before one or two American corporations owned 90% of the planet(China and Russia excepted) and starting a new business would be impossible. Look, i understand people love their corporations, but yeah...not your friends.
And i am not saying GP is predatory shark behaviour. But microsoft is a trillion dollar corporation giving games away for $1/month for up to 36(?) months for gold subscribers with free day one AAA and AA games—who can compete with that and make money? so it very well could be predatory. We’ll see in ten years.
And no, they wont need to raise fees like netflix as they are fucking swimming in money.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Okay... Obviously Microsoft wants to do that and may be taking a hit. We'll see if it works out. How does that respond to what I said? I'm talking about the thread's premise. Other pubs/devs abandoning the Xbox platform because of it, not their first party output which obviously won't abandon its parent. If devs/pubs weren't compensated enough to be on game pass, they wouldn't be. So no they won't abandon Xbox because of game pass. They could eventually abandon game pass if Microsoft doesn't compensate them enough for players that engage with their games through that.
Last edited:
thelastword
Banned
Tbf the divides has been that way for all of this gen some even reaching 90:10 with some games and in certain regions......The thing is I see Outer Worlds more like an XBOX game, but it's not surprising that such a game has such a huge divide...….vs the PS4....
Tbh, I had no interest in it really.....I saw the initial trailer and I felt it looked good, but it was only last week I was reminded of this game only because of "gamepass".
I had no intention of buying this game, but since I still have gamepass ultimate for $2, I will try it out......Tbh, I'm not even in a hurry, I preloaded, I started it two days aback, there were some issues with Live, I booted out of it, set the graphical settings and exited.....Have not gone back to it......Even though you have gamepass, doesn't mean you will play the game either, people have to understand that...….There are games I'd rather play right now, but does gamepass really make rush to play games on the service?
Nope, it's only $2 and we all have a backlog across consoles and PC...….Gamepass is not forcing me to play anything I don't want to play.....I played Gears 5, because I like third person shooters or campaigns, I gave that priority.....This is another question people need to ask, with the current number of gamepass subs, what number are playing certain games, on release, 1 week after release, 2 weeks and thereafter…….?
If you enjoy it so much, you should give a shit, because if MS is not making money off this, they will cancel it in quicktime…. or soon all you will be getting for games is bad rats 5, superman 64 remake and Life of Black Tiger 2 on the service…….That, or they will hike the price of gamepass, stop those $1-2 subs and get with the profile of making money and being profitable......These companies are not in it for shits and giggles and to be your friend by giving you all their AAA games for a $2 sub forever......
It's like if a company started selling brand new sports cars for $200, where manufacturing cost $10,000 per car...…….I guess you will just say Eff them, they're stupid for pricing this so low, I'm not stupid as a customer, I'll just ride that train, but when the car breaks down, where are you going to get parts, who is going to ensure that it remains on the road......At $200, what type of quality Assurance do you think was administered……...So when the government calls these cars off the road because it's a fire hazard, with multiple accounts of instant detonation and a tickingtime-bomb, how does that benefit you long-term......You have to ask questions as to the sustainability of it all......I'm on that train too, but MS can't keep doing this for much over this year....I guess they're only doing this because they have conceded this gen and perhaps are playing the goodwill card......That's fine though.….$2 gamepass sub, no Live sub on PC, best way to play XBOX this gen...…...
No doubt, they cant go back now.....I have a feeling this is only for now, because this gen is over, for them at least......I mean what other AAA First Party games are coming till PS5 and Scarlett.....I think that's pretty much all the juice MS has for gamepass till then, so the service will whimper a bit, where they may reintroduce it next gen; at higher prices with less day 1 games etc....Either way, it will be a hard pill, based on the precedence they have now set....
Some of the biggest games of the last 10 years are free to play so I'm not crazy enough to think that there is no money being made from Game Pass . The question is about making games for a next gen console will publishers go all in on a Scarlett exclusive when a big game like Gears Of War 5 isn't moving much units now?
Free to play & Subs is the future for sure no way around that.
thelastword
Banned
I don't think there's too much third party attachment to gamepass minus indies......The indies are probably best served with a cheque from MS as opposed to relying on sales for some obscure games I've seen in my gamepass folder...….Metro has nothing to lose, they're willing to accept cheques, that much is clear.....The deal with Epic Store and being on gamepass...….I guess they sold well enough on Epic and the game is available on PS4, where most of their sales would come from anyway, so they're just milking the cow...….When they release Metro on steam, they would have milked every platform......I dont think they were starving when MS offered them a cheque to release on GP...…..but who refuses money,,,,,either you buy metro on XBOX or you get it on GP.....Most of the sales on XBOX had already waned when it came to GP.....
The point is, what other big third party games are on gamepass? As we can clearly see, the First Party offering is pretty much non-existent after Gears 5 for new AAA releases from MS studios....
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Again, I don't know what all this has to do with what I said and responded to. Guy says game pass hurts sales so bad that devs could abandon xbox as a whole over it. I ask why would they merely choose not be on game pass (with whatever repercussions that may have for game pass itself, Microsoft could abandon it if there's no interest from other devs and pubs just as well, whatever, it's not the topic) if it was such a bad deal? If they are on it then they're paid enough. What you think about game sales on these platforms in general and how that game would sell like shit on Xbox vs PS4 has nothing to do with this. Nor do you know if Microsoft just gives a check as you say or pays by the amount of downloads or hours played or whatever player engagement metrics have been devised in recent times and how much profit that brings to the given company compared to a sale etc.
Last edited:
Where did I say that?
Plague Doctor
Member
I actually have no fucking idea what MS is doing these days. It's like they could be successful if they focus on going in one of two routes they are putting out there but they are awkwardly trying to do both. All I know is they need new leadership. Someone that will just focus on one route and put in 110%.
LostDonkey
Member
The biggest thing missing from PS Now is the ability to download the games to PC and play them natively like you can with GamePass.
Streaming at 720p is an utter disgrace.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Bethesda's been a huge player in Game Pass - Wolfenstein, Dishonored, Fallout, and Elder Scrolls have all been part of Game Pass. Sega has a bunch of games on the service as well (Shenmue, Valkyria). Warner Bros has Lego, LOTR, and Mortal Kombat games on Game Pass. Capcom has Devil May Cry 5 and Monster Hunter. Square Enix has Dues Ex and Just Cause as well as Tomb Raider on the service. Bandai is in on it with stuff like Jump Force. Even fuckin' Disney is well represented. Depending on your definition of "indies" - I'd argue that Focus Home Interactive also has an impressive catalog here with games like Metro and Vampyr.
Your statement is at best false and at worst disingenuous.
Last edited:
thelastword
Banned
Im talking new games....ROTTR, everybody should have bought this by now...…..this game has been available below $10 for ages,,,,,,,,Mortal Kombat, I mean come on, you think people are subbing to gamepass for these? Deus Ex, I bought for $5 on PC and PS4, ultimate versions too, same with Just Cause etc........Pretty much all these games you mentioned I've already bought on sales ages ago.......sometimes on PS4 and PC too...........It's just like all those Forza's on gamepass means nothing to me, because I already had the ultimate versions and all the Gears games on PC too.....I think the biggest attraction, what gives GP traction are the new AAA games...Gears 5 was one, I think Metro was a good get too, but everything else is not a reason to sub.....if you've been gaming and paying attention to sales the last few years.....All these games were dirt cheap for the versions with all DLC included already......
So where is the evidence that games not on Game Pass are being harmed by its existence? Because the games accepting Game Pass know what they're trading off.
The concern trolling by console fanboys isn't nearly as clever as you seem to think it is, you're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.
Last edited:
Interesting thread, and I think the premise will end up proven true eventually. To me its obvious - why buy something that's free or close to it? But as of now, I would lump this link as evidence of correlation, but not conclusive on causation. The install base gap is just too large, and I can't ignore that with such a gap its possible that PS4 players include more people open to lesser known titles. Do I believe it - no, not really. I'm just not willing to say one game is proof because of the disparity with COD, which has always had a solid attach rate on both consoles I bet.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Game Pass is a fad, and won't work long term.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
You may not believe this, but I've been gaming and paying attention to sales the last few years also.
Here are six examples of non-Microsoft games that are included in Game Pass and have never been under $20 each on PC. With the exception of Monster Hunter World (and the first episode of LiS2 - though all are included in Game Pass) these games also all released in 2019. At least a dozen more I spot checked and saw historical lows more than $10. As in, still cheaper to subscribe to Game Pass for a month than to purchase outright.
You're right though - if you're subscribing to Game Pass just to play Oxenfree (still a great game though) you're doing it wrong. Just like it's stupid to subscribe to Netflix just to watch The Office when you can buy the entire series on sale for $30.
bumleforce
Member
I love gamepass. Its great for consumers and Microsoft is makeing money. If Outerworlds sells less but people are still playing it then its a win
KlickKlack
Banned
proof?
Dontspeakforme
Banned
So what you’re upset about is that it’s not going to be $2 forever?
Of course it’s not going to be that cheap forever. I don’t have a problem paying $15 or even $20 a month for it if they keep the quality of releases up.
Last edited:
Iced Arcade
Member
They want you to subscribe over buying single units.
Petrae
Member
I learned to stop giving a shit about how much (more) money developers, publishers, and platform holders make and instead cared solely about how to more cheaply acquire games that I am interested in playing.
If they make money, good for them. If they don’t? Tough tits— maybe they’ll do better next time. If they go out of business? Shit happens. These are companies, and companies that are successful tend to have leadership that makes smart decisions in order to help them become successful.
As a consumer, I just want the product. I don’t have endless supplies of cash to draw from, nor do I have limitless free time to spend. If I’m buying and/or playing a game, it has to be within my acceptable pricing parameters. How the game reaches that threshold and how it affects the company’s bottom line is irrelevant to me.
If they make money, good for them. If they don’t? Tough tits— maybe they’ll do better next time. If they go out of business? Shit happens. These are companies, and companies that are successful tend to have leadership that makes smart decisions in order to help them become successful.
As a consumer, I just want the product. I don’t have endless supplies of cash to draw from, nor do I have limitless free time to spend. If I’m buying and/or playing a game, it has to be within my acceptable pricing parameters. How the game reaches that threshold and how it affects the company’s bottom line is irrelevant to me.
Dr.brain64
Member
Xbox is not doing well but it's not because of game pass. Xbox has been on a decline ever since the last year of 360.
Maybe, you will.... the majority of gamers are unlikely to pay for much of anything.
I don't think it hurts or helps - its just another rental option.
In the end, Xbox as a product line within Microsoft will have to get drastically smaller if they can't find new revenue. Phil bought Xbox 3-5 more years but if they can't find new service revenue than it will eventually get Groovified by Nadella.
I see nothing really wrong as to rental services but the bulk of the revenues will have to come from sales.
Last edited:
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
The Atari ST came bundled with the ‘power pack’ - a huge package of games included with the machine. This led to customers being less willing to buy new games. A cautionary tale.
- Status