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Game Pass is hurting day one software sales on Xbox could this push publishers & devs away from Xbox Scarlett or will they wait it out?

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Maybe, you will.... the majority of gamers are unlikely to pay for much of anything.

You sound like a foreigner from some back-water country where $20 is considered alot of money.

This shit is for Americans and Western Europeans. In our society just going out to eat with your SO costs more than $20, and that's if you go to a shitty restaurant. I had chicken wings with my wife yesterday, just fucking wings with no fries or anything and it cost me $28 for a 20-piece + tip.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
You sound like a foreigner from some back-water country where $20 is considered alot of money.

This shit is for Americans and Western Europeans. In our society just going out to eat with your SO costs more than $20, and that's if you go to a shitty restaurant. I had chicken wings with my wife yesterday, just fucking wings with no fries or anything and it cost me $28 for a 20-piece + tip.
Paying 30 bucks for 20 chicken wings sounds pretty back water. You seriously take pride in having shit more overpriced than others you then deem lesser? Even in the UK something like that would cost like 10 pounds (well, pre-Brexit). Thankfully where I live KFC isn't popular, often doesn't even have a presence in smaller cities.
 
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Paying 30 bucks for 20 chicken wings sounds pretty back water. You seriously take pride in having shit more overpriced than others you then deem lesser? Even in the UK something like that would cost like 10 pounds (well, pre-Brexit). Thankfully where I live KFC isn't popular, often doesn't even have a presence in smaller cities.

I call bullshit.

I don't think I could even buy 20 raw wings from the supermarket for under $15.
 

DanielsM

Banned
You sound like a foreigner from some back-water country where $20 is considered alot of money.

This shit is for Americans and Western Europeans. In our society just going out to eat with your SO costs more than $20, and that's if you go to a shitty restaurant. I had chicken wings with my wife yesterday, just fucking wings with no fries or anything and it cost me $28 for a 20-piece + tip.

Motherfucker I'm an American. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

People haven't been paying for GP at full price let alone $15-20 a month, which is why Microsoft basically started giving it away for free (or basically free $1) i.e. no customers. People want free shit.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I call bullshit.

I don't think I could even buy 20 raw wings from the supermarket for under $15.
I couldn't find the 20pc bucket on their actual site but found this relevant article where they mention the regular price in comparison to this deal they reported.
 
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You may not believe this, but I've been gaming and paying attention to sales the last few years also.

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Here are six examples of non-Microsoft games that are included in Game Pass and have never been under $20 each on PC. With the exception of Monster Hunter World (and the first episode of LiS2 - though all are included in Game Pass) these games also all released in 2019. At least a dozen more I spot checked and saw historical lows more than $10. As in, still cheaper to subscribe to Game Pass for a month than to purchase outright.

You're right though - if you're subscribing to Game Pass just to play Oxenfree (still a great game though) you're doing it wrong. Just like it's stupid to subscribe to Netflix just to watch The Office when you can buy the entire series on sale for $30.
QFT
 
Paying 30 bucks for 20 chicken wings sounds pretty back water. You seriously take pride in having shit more overpriced than others you then deem lesser? Even in the UK something like that would cost like 10 pounds (well, pre-Brexit). Thankfully where I live KFC isn't popular, often doesn't even have a presence in smaller cities.


What pride you talking about? It's reality but it's no biggie. I make that money but I'm in different categorie as I run RE. Most Americans make more than $15 an hour think is at minimum wage and we're ok..thank you very much.

KFC ain't popular? I call buuuullshit.
 
Motherfucker I'm an American. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

People haven't been paying for GP at full price let alone $15-20 a month, which is why Microsoft basically started giving it away for free (or basically free $1) i.e. no customers. People want free shit.

🤭😂😂 get you shit together fellow 🇺🇸 we thought you were from Somalia or god knows tha @#$% from 🤭 talking about pennies and single Dollars.
 
I couldn't find the 20pc bucket on their actual site but found this relevant article where they mention the regular price in comparison to this deal they reported.

That's processed food with half of the weight coming from fried breading. Don't eat that shit, you're going to get a heart attack.

This is what chicken wings are:

20180517-chili-chicken-wings-vicky-wasik-7-1500x1125.jpg


oven-baked-chicken-wings-8-1.jpg
 
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theclaw135

Banned
I don't know. Maybe Gamepass is misused by some publishers.
As much as I hate to say it, you do need to profit somehow and fair DLC is the best bet.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
That's processed food with half of the weight coming from fried breading. Don't eat that shit, you're going to get a heart attack.

This is what chicken wings are:

20180517-chili-chicken-wings-vicky-wasik-7-1500x1125.jpg


oven-baked-chicken-wings-8-1.jpg
Well, either you edited your post to not include KFC or I misread initially because I have no diea why I'd go on about KFC without any mention of it by others. But okay then, going to a restaurant or whatever establishment and getting a "home" cooked meal as in the photo can definitely cost much more than 30 for a pair.

That still doesn't make countries where it's cheaper "back water".
 
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Developers are not losing money on Gamepass, and gamers are getting a great deal on Gamepass.

The issue is that MS had been running the thing on pure promotion deal for some time now. So much so that hardly anyone actually pay the asking price.

How is that a problem? Well, look at Xbox 1S. It is technically $299 USD, but so much sales had been going on for so long that the average consumers consider the console to be $249. And that really crashed the sales of the All-Digital version.

Microsoft will have trouble increasing the price back to "normal". when most people have never paid the normal price. I mean it isn't my problem, no skin off my nose. And it isn't like MS can't absorb the loss. But eventually the gravy train ends. You need to see Game Pass for what it is suppose to be, and can't assume you get to pay a dollar a month forever.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Game Pass is nice in many ways, but I am concerned that long term it can hurt the industry. I am having a very hard time believing that MS made up the development costs of Gears of War 5 alone with Gamepass. When you consider people like me who bought two years worth of cheaper 1 year Xbox-Live subscription cards and then upgraded with a $1 cost, I have a very hard time believing that they will break even any time soon.

I have GamePass which I spent $1 on until September 2022 and this will even cover Live. MS is obsessed with services so I am sure they have funny math that says this works out but here in the real world there is no way they’re going to be making any money on the games they are spending a shitload on.

I mean even if Halo Infinite is the greatest game ever, I can play it for almost 2 years without spending a dime more than I’ve spent. I don’t need a console, I don’t need Live, and I don’t need the game.
 
Long term, the game pass business model is the future. It’s why Netflix has a subscription instead of charging you separately for new releases.

Movies and tv have mostly moved this way while the physical market still exists for those who want it. Games are moving this way too.
 
W

Well, either you edited your post to not include KFC or I misread initially because I have no diea why I'd go on about KFC without any mention of it by others. But okay then, going to a restaurant or whatever establishment and getting a "home" cooked meal as in the photo can definitely cost much more than 30 for a pair.

That still doesn't make countries where it's cheaper "back water".

I wouldn’t be caught dead eating fast food.

And you chose KFC because it’s the unhealthiest cheapest thing you could find on a random google search. Don’t play stupid.
 
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DanielsM

Banned
Long term, the game pass business model is the future. It’s why Netflix has a subscription instead of charging you separately for new releases.

Movies and tv have mostly moved this way while the physical market still exists for those who want it. Games are moving this way too.

The comparisons sound similar until you analysis the details.

- Netflix (and other streamers) allowed many users to ditch traditional cable i.e. $50-100 cable bills.... thereby lowering bills.
- A family of 4-5 can go thru 1000s of hours of movies/tv shows per year, but probably not 100s of games a year
- Netflix (and other streamers) basically lose money on every subscription, I'm not saying there can't be model that gets out of the red - but not sure there is huge money in it at this point.... Netflix continues to lose huge amounts of money, year after year
- many of the same customers are already getting free games with other services like Xbox Live Gold and PS Plus.
- old games are cheap and you don't need access to 100s of games as most people are only playing a few at a time, and many of them are free to play as well

I'm not saying rental services can't exist, but to actually replace sales completely seems pretty far fetched.... video game rentals have existed for 30 years.... as far as a package deal.... I'm sure they'll continue to play around with PS Plus/PS Now/Game Pass/EA Access/Red Box/etc. but I'm pretty suspect as to any foreseeable change to the present system i.e. sales.

What does Netflix sell? Stock. What do they do? Burn cash for a business.

Even if rental models become the norm, most probably all the major publishers will have their own distribution systems i.e. fragmentation.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I wouldn’t be caught dead eating fast food.

And you chose KFC because it’s the unhealthiest cheapest thing you could find on a random google search. Don’t play stupid.
I mean, I mentioned KFC before I searched, again because I thought you had mentioned it and found it a crazy price because indeed such chain fast food is pretty bad. Plus chicken wings aren't something people around here generally order in restaurants, usually going for better cuts/meats/orders but you do you.
 
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Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
The comparisons sound similar until you analysis the details.

- Netflix (and other streamers) allowed many users to ditch traditional cable i.e. $50-100 cable bills.... thereby lowering bills.
- A family of 4-5 can go thru 1000s of hours of movies/tv shows per year, but probably not 100s of games a year
- Netflix (and other streamers) basically lose money on every subscription, I'm not saying there can't be model that gets out of the red - but not sure there is huge money in it at this point.... Netflix continues to lose huge amounts of money, year after year
- many of the same customers are already getting free games with other services like Xbox Live Gold and PS Plus.
- old games are cheap and you don't need access to 100s of games as most people are only playing a few at a time, and many of them are free to play as well

I'm not saying rental services can't exist, but to actually replace sales completely seems pretty far fetched.... video game rentals have existed for 30 years.... as far as a package deal.... I'm sure they'll continue to play around with PS Plus/PS Now/Game Pass/EA Access/Red Box/etc. but I'm pretty suspect as to any foreseeable change to the present system i.e. sales.

What does Netflix sell? Stock. What do they do? Burn cash for a business.

Even if rental models become the norm, most probably all the major publishers will have their own distribution systems i.e. fragmentation.

WE GET IT. YOU DON'T LIKE NETFLIX.

Find a new hobby, mate. Trying to shoehorn your hate boner for Netflix in every post you can isn't working out for you.
 
WE GET IT. YOU DON'T LIKE NETFLIX.

Find a new hobby, mate. Trying to shoehorn your hate boner for Netflix in every post you can isn't working out for you.
It isn't about like or don't like. You are free to like it. But that doesn't make it good business. It was good for a while when it was the only game in town, but Netflix can't host other people's content anymore because other content get their own separate streaming service now. And this is the same issue with Gamepass long term. Gamepass in the future could only survive the same way Nintendo does; via first party games. And also be sold at a profit, not loss.
 

DanielsM

Banned
WE GET IT. YOU DON'T LIKE NETFLIX.

Find a new hobby, mate. Trying to shoehorn your hate boner for Netflix in every post you can isn't working out for you.
Hm. Actually, I'm just responding to another Netflix bot that somehow magically believes its a sustainable business model. I don't hate Netflix, heck, I've been streaming my own music since 1997 or so, movies since the mid-2000s from my own house.... there is no real magic behind it.

Its just not a very good business model.
 

demigod

Member
Developers are not losing money on Gamepass, and gamers are getting a great deal on Gamepass.

The issue is that MS had been running the thing on pure promotion deal for some time now. So much so that hardly anyone actually pay the asking price.

How is that a problem? Well, look at Xbox 1S. It is technically $299 USD, but so much sales had been going on for so long that the average consumers consider the console to be $249. And that really crashed the sales of the All-Digital version.

Microsoft will have trouble increasing the price back to "normal". when most people have never paid the normal price. I mean it isn't my problem, no skin off my nose. And it isn't like MS can't absorb the loss. But eventually the gravy train ends. You need to see Game Pass for what it is suppose to be, and can't assume you get to pay a dollar a month forever.

You can find it sub $200 since last year.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
Hm. Actually, I'm just responding to another Netflix bot that somehow magically believes its a sustainable business model. I don't hate Netflix, heck, I've been streaming my own music since 1997 or so, movies since the mid-2000s from my own house.... there is no real magic behind it.

Its just not a very good business model.

I don't have Netflix, but nice try.
 
If Game Pass is $10 a month and someone buys into the yearly aspect of it and never play the games, then MS are $120 in Profit from it.

It is pretty genius really as it offers people a choice between subscribing to their digital Library of games, or buying their games physically.
 

DanielsM

Banned
I don't have Netflix, but nice try.

My response was clearly to Starbuck2907, not you.

If Game Pass is $10 a month and someone buys into the yearly aspect of it and never play the games, then MS are $120 in Profit from it.

It is pretty genius really as it offers people a choice between subscribing to their digital Library of games, or buying their games physically.

Isn't that the problem, the IF part? People weren't paying $10 a month. At the end of the day, the goal is to extract more money... eventually, not less.
 
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Isn't that the problem, the IF part? People weren't paying $10 a month. At the end of the day, the goal is to extract more money... eventually, not less.

I am sure Microsoft have looked into the avenues of the potential for the Pass to determine if it makes them money or not.

Worse case scenario, they bump up the price of the Pass if they are not making enough money on it.
 
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DanielsM

Banned
I am sure Microsoft have looked into the avenues of the potential for the Pass to determine if it makes them money or not.

Worse case scenario, they bump up the price of the Pass if they are not making enough money on it.

IF life was so simple, clearly people weren't signing up for $10 a month as they basically went free with it.
 
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IF life was so simple, clearly people weren't signing up for $10 a month as they basically went free with it.

MS want the retention rate first before they do anything. People tend to be too lazy to un-sub when it goes up slowly.

MS being the company that they are will be looking into the Analysis of doing this before doing anything else.

I wouldn't worry about them losing money over this unless it absolutely fails.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Why as a consumer you are worried about that? Are you stakeholder?
As a consumer I am worried that it will do more harm than good in the long run.
It's not hard to imagine that at some point the quality of games will suffer if Gamepass removes the incentive to make the best game possible, knowing that it has the safety net of a subscription system. It's also hard to imagine that MS will be able to justify big budget games if it's known beforehand that they will be available Day 1 on a subscription system.

As somebody who enjoys games and all they have to offer, I have concerns about the long term viability.
 
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Hulk_Smash

Banned
I know I am. Tons of games I would have overlooked. Now some of those publishers are on my radar for their next game.

I noticed many of these games are a bit of GAAS with community events and DLC dropping well after launch.

On the other hand, there will be a lot of folks who sign up for that one game and then drop it after they’re done with said game. i expect game pass prices to rise several times in a short period.
Let’s see what happens when Halo 6 drops. Will they put that on game pass day one?
 

MiguelItUp

Member
I think it's amusing that there are a number of folks talking about Game Pass as if it's hurting the company or negatively impacting the game's success. I'm sure they were paid to include it on Game Pass, I wouldn't be surprised if it's worked out in such a way that it kind of evens out for them, in terms of profits.

Sure, maybe the physical and digital distribution numbers aren't gonna look as high as they normally would outside of Game Pass. But the high reviews and praise are going to say otherwise. Well, and if they're receiving money regardless of having their project on Game Pass or not, I'm sure they'll be more than fine.

I just think it's funny seeing so many people respond saying things like, "Well, I don't want Game Pass because I won't to support the developers!"

It's a legit Microsoft service, you're not illegally playing the game or disrespecting the developer by playing it via Game Pass, lmao. If you want to outright purchase it physically or digitally, by all means do so! Good for you! But there's also no reason to look down on those not doing the same, lmao.
 
Isn't this like saying, Music piracy is killing the industry when in fact it's just the lack of convenience that was actually damaging. The industry is changing for a more digital friendly setting for customers.

I mean if you got game pass you ain't gonna be buying the game if that game is on game pass.

Is the subs monthly income not making them enough money that would = sales?
 

Fake

Member
But why? What are you loosing as a customer?
I dunno if you follow as many devs I do, but what is good for consumers not always are good for company/devs. Launch Gears 5 on PC/Xbox they could get a good amount of money in comparison with 1$ rent from Game Pass, at least at launch. NPD sales show the first weeks are the better time for game sales in any degree. Xbox One S and SAD are lower cost consoles for those who don't have money for a PC or others reasons. Games move hardwares and was already proved.
Again, I not saying they can't launch games at Game Pass, but at least wait some weeks for doing so.
 
I dunno if you follow as many devs I do, but what is good for consumers not always are good for company/devs. Launch Gears 5 on PC/Xbox they could get a good amount of money in comparison with 1$ rent from Game Pass, at least at launch. NPD sales show the first weeks are the better time for game sales in any degree. Xbox One S and SAD are lower cost consoles for those who don't have money for a PC or others reasons. Games move hardwares and was already proved.
Again, I not saying they can't launch games at Game Pass, but at least wait some weeks for doing so.
All Xbox Exlcusives are meant to drive people to subscribe to gamepass. The selection is somewhat limited right now but who's going to want to leave when you can play every exclusive game? Think about how many exclusives and new IP's will be coming to the service as of next gen and also think about how all the current-gen games will be cross compatible.
 

cHaOs667

Member
Launch Gears 5 on PC/Xbox they could get a good amount of money in comparison with 1$ rent from Game Pass, at least at launch.
That's a weak point as Microsoft is a company that has been transformed around service based offerings in the past few years. Gears 5 is a marketing instrument for them to thrive the game pass subs (and eradicate second hand sales). Microsoft is earning more money a year with a person that subs game pass for 9.99/Month than a person that buys two games (physically) a year. This business model is getting even better if the person was used to sell the games after it has finished them.
NPD sales show the first weeks are the better time for game sales in any degree. Xbox One S and SAD are lower cost consoles for those who don't have money for a PC or others reasons. Games move hardwares and was already proved.
Again, I not saying they can't launch games at Game Pass, but at least wait some weeks for doing so.
Yes, Games sell Hardware but sales numbers are not relevant to the majority of gamers. Are you buying games just because they sell well? I hope not as you are missing out some freaking good indie games.
 

Fake

Member
All Xbox Exlcusives are meant to drive people to subscribe to gamepass. The selection is somewhat limited right now but who's going to want to leave when you can play every exclusive game? Think about how many exclusives and new IP's will be coming to the service as of next gen and also think about how all the current-gen games will be cross compatible.
When I think about Xbox Ecosystem I not include Game Pass or Windows Store. I still think is a bad ideia for moving hardware sales and every year Microsoft choise a new better way or metric for showing Xbox division sales growing... If they want to hide bad news fine, but devs think otherwise.
Yes, Games sell Hardware but sales numbers are not relevant to the majority of gamers. Are you buying games just because they sell well? I hope not as you are missing out some freaking good indie games.
Christ... I never buy a game because of sales dude... You're too much into this. Think as a Microsoft employer. We're here for talk about the OP subject, not about what is better for gamers.
Gamers want both Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony to launch games around any plataform... very lucrative don't you think? Nah, gamers don't think much about this do they?
 
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cHaOs667

Member
Christ... I never buy a game because of sales dude... You're too much into this. Think as a Microsoft employer. We're here for talk about the OP subject, not about what is better for gamers.
Gamers want both Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony to launch games around any plataform... very lucrative don't you think? Nah, gamers don't think much about this do they?
Dude, read the first part of my statement about your weak point and start to think about Microsoft as a company that wants to earn money.
It's proven since the rise of Spotify and Netflix that people are more willing to pay 9.99/Month (119.88/Year) than 100 bucks a year for 2-3 games (which is the reason why there are also subs like EA/Origin Access, UPlay+ etc).

And trust me - Microsoft tries to shift the attention from sales numbers to "people who have played the game" or "people who are using Xbox live regularly" for a couple of years now.
 

Fake

Member
Dude, read the first part of my statement about your weak point and start to think about Microsoft as a company that wants to earn money.
It's proven since the rise of Spotify and Netflix that people are more willing to pay 9.99/Month (119.88/Year) than 100 bucks a year for 2-3 games (which is the reason why there are also subs like EA/Origin Access, UPlay+ etc).

And trust me - Microsoft tries to shift the attention from sales numbers to "people who have played the game" or "people who are using Xbox live regularly" for a couple of years now.
Microsoft will always earn money, but that don't mean Xbox division is a lucrative departament mind you.
Sony and Microsoft have many others division besides gaming.
 

DanielsM

Banned
Dude, read the first part of my statement about your weak point and start to think about Microsoft as a company that wants to earn money.
It's proven since the rise of Spotify and Netflix that people are more willing to pay 9.99/Month (119.88/Year) than 100 bucks a year for 2-3 games (which is the reason why there are also subs like EA/Origin Access, UPlay+ etc).

And trust me - Microsoft tries to shift the attention from sales numbers to "people who have played the game" or "people who are using Xbox live regularly" for a couple of years now.

Netflix is a cash burning operation, Spotify can probably squeeze out some money until the artist revolt, but huge money... not really. The issue with your Netflix example is, Netflix loses quite a bit of money.... they are basically selling a dollar for 50 cents with really no way of pushing prices up.

Nothing really wrong with rental services, I mean the local video/game store has been around for 30 years. Just not sure we'll see a huge shift anytime soon as the money is in digital sales.

think about Microsoft as a company that wants to earn money.

Oh, I agree there i.e. service subscription model, but just because one is trying to sell something doesn't mean there is a willing customer, which is why Microsoft shutdown Groove Music (formerly Xbox Music, which was formerly Zune Music) i.e. no customers.

I think all these rental/streaming are okay to experiment with but I think there is more talk than they'll have customers unless they go to the sell a dollar for 20 cents business model in the foreseeable future.

Either way not sure I see the big deal - I mean its just a distribution model, like why do I care if tomatoes show up at the grocery by truck or rail? At the end of the day, not much is really gained unless they go to the burning cash route of Netflix. Even if rental/streaming services become the norm, be prepared to pay more not less... eventually.... every big publisher will have the own service.

Generally speaking, I think people get excited about games and not so much about "services", there really is only so many games a person can play in a year.
 
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I mean, I mentioned KFC before I searched, again because I thought you had mentioned it and found it a crazy price because indeed such chain fast food is pretty bad. Plus chicken wings aren't something people around here generally order in restaurants, usually going for better cuts/meats/orders but you do you.

Yeah better cuts like KFC chicken. :messenger_grinning:

You've pretty much revealed you're broke, there's no going back now.

Oh, and you know edits are timestamped and publicly visible right? No one's buying the "you must have edited your post, I don't know why I else I would mention KFC" excuse - you mentioned KFC because you are poor and that is where you go when you want wings.

mgPlHMo.png
 
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Are people still questioning the game pass model...ffs.

At this point it's just sad how against people are to the model and are actively plugging their ears and will spin anything to match their delusion.
A lot of people here will want to doom and gloom anything positive for Microsoft. This is a very Sony-Centric forum, which is fine, Sony has good games and a great system. But I think the bias is very strong and creates a huge backlash. When MS does something good, it's presented as the worst idea ever and that it will fail. Then, when they do something bad, it's like those threads go into party mode. I do, however, enjoy the sane feedback as few and far between as it is.
 
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