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Gameinformer + Ubisoft + Nintendo Rev = Red Steel
- Thread starter superfly
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Great Rumbler
Member
Alright, I got my copy of GI today [finally] and I've now had a chance to look at the pictures with my own eyes. To sum it up: they aren't quite as good as they appeared at first. This is not to say that they look bad by any means, quite the contrary, they do look quite good, but certainly not on the same level as the latest Xbox360 games. As long as they up the polygon count, add in a few higher resolution textures, and fix the shadows it will be a good looking game.
Having said that, what's I'm really excited about is playing an FPS with the Revolution controller, because that's what's really important here.
Having said that, what's I'm really excited about is playing an FPS with the Revolution controller, because that's what's really important here.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
AniHawk said:
Great Rumbler said:
I've only seen some very high resolution, but still very grainy scans, so I can't really comment about the textures and stuff. But I can also say that the polygon count could be higher. The lighting seemed to be pretty nice though, like the pic of a hand with the katana... or was it just a gun?, it looked almost real (though the game still has this more artistic look, not totally realistic approach to begin with).
Anyway, as long as it runs at 60fps and with great animation, I don't think anyone will pay attention to some polygon counts.
AndoCalrissian
Member
They are terms that Iwata and Miyamoto have used. Free-hand Controller references the entire controller, and IIRC, Direct Pointing Device is more specific to the sensor on the front.TheKingsCrown said:
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
The more I think about how Red Steel looks compared to X360 and PS3 games, the more my own hype decreases. I am not even that impressed with the graphics I've seen of the more powerful machines (obviously as the generation moves on that will change). I'm all for new gameplay experiences, cheaper hardware, and making development easier/cheaper, but a part of me also fears that the immersion afforded by the Revmote will not be maximised thanks to graphics that don't really look significantly better than current-gen games and games that lack more natural movement and physics.
I'm still excited about revolution, but I hope E3 either demonstrates further graphical improvements and/or gameplay possibilities that are so thoroughly and instantly nappy-filling that they negate any negatives in the visual and physics department. Those additions can be ensured in the next next-gen in 2012.
I'm still excited about revolution, but I hope E3 either demonstrates further graphical improvements and/or gameplay possibilities that are so thoroughly and instantly nappy-filling that they negate any negatives in the visual and physics department. Those additions can be ensured in the next next-gen in 2012.
Chris Remo
Member
MrSardonic said:
When you've actually been PLAYING a game for more than a minute or two, do you honestly still notice stuff like that though? Because I have an HDTV and I hardly ever play HD games on it (when I use my 360 it's more for Live Arcade usually, which isn't a slam btw, that stuff is great). When I start them up I always notice the resolution difference, but the second I actually get engrossed in the game that completely disappears.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
MrSardonic said:
You've got so many thoughts going on in there it is hard for me to understand.
1. Your hype decreases for Red Steel because of the graphics of 360/ps3 games, yet you don't like the graphics for those games either?
2. In general you think that gameplay AND graphics should change at the same time?
I can't be sure yet, but Revolution is more powerful than current generation from everything I have seen. If it is somewhere in between current generation and next gen, like in the middle, I will be happy enough myself that the gameplay will actually outweigh it.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
Chris Remo said:
Well I don't care about HDTV resolutions (I live in Europe for starters), but I just meant the level of interactive and consequential detail (i.e. not grass blowing in the wind) that can be invested in a game if the hardware is a bit more powerful. Some of the Red Steel shots have environments that are very barren looking - more like Timesplitters2 than a next-gen FPS - and I just fear that the possibilities Revmote could allow for physics interactions and immersion in-game will be limited by the hardware.
I am looking forward to the advantages of the Revolution (some of which are incompatible with a wish for games exploiting cutting-edge CPU, GPU and RAM) but like I said, despite all the problems about dev costs etc, I already can't help but think about how the experience could be so much better next-gen when the graphics and physics could be used to maximise the advantages of the new interface.
It is almost not really possible to design a console which has the best of both worlds...at least not until the costs drop significantly in the future
TheKingsCrown said:
That's kind of right. The graphics for 360/PS3 are a step above Revolution, but still not yet at a level that blows me away, which only makes the Rev graphics we've seen so far that bit less impressive at this stage...which is why I am hoping that the gameplay experience is so great and the new ideas so fun, that it renders this kind of issue irrelevant once it comes down to playing the games themselves
TheKingsCrown said:
Well I'm just saying that a part of me wonders *what if* i could enjoy the best of both worlds...or at least the Revolution world with a little bit more hardware grunt
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
o rly?
I quote the most recent issue of EGM: On sale May 16.
So people won't get the magazine until probably May 6 ish.
I quote the most recent issue of EGM: On sale May 16.
So people won't get the magazine until probably May 6 ish.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Just got the magazine a few days ago. At first glance, the graphics look decent, but then you start to look at it closer and see that the GC Turbo and Xbox comparisons are really no joke. There are no details on the clothing like most 360 and PS3 games we are seeing. Textures look like crap. There's a picture of a vending machine and it's contents are still the same flat texture we've been seeing for years now. Everything looks flat actually. The only improvement I can see is that there are less jaggies and more particles. Maybe some new lighting, but it's hard to tell from a screenshot.
Bottom of the line, Nintendo half-assed the graphics. WTF, Nintendo? How in the world do they expect gamers to buy this? I know it's only one game, but this is not a good sign. The only way I can see this working is if they sell it for dirt cheap, and when I say dirt cheap I mean launching at $99 and dropping to $49 in about two years. It's very clear that they put 100% of their effort into the controller and just slightly increased the graphics and threw in a flash drive to download games onto. I'm sick of Nintendo always sacrificing one thing for another.
The idea that gameplay is more important than graphics is a joke as well. They are both equally important imo. I don't care if Tetris wouldn't sell today. Gamers aren't looking for that type of game. Tetris has come and gone. If that's the target Nintendo is going after, they need to hook up with McDonalds the way there are games in Bennigans or sports bars. They could also make cheap PC games like Solitare.
I think Rev is going to do worse than GC. They controller sounds cool, I like the idea of immersion, but to really immerse someone the graphics (and sound) need to be there as well. I know it's been said a thousand times in the past, but this controller needs a visor. That's the only way I could see graphics like that working. The wow factor of seeing something in true 3D could potentially outweigh the poorer graphics. Not all games would have to use it, but games like Red Steel would truely benefit. At this point, I hope the other secret(s) about Revolution are just important as the controller, otherwise, I think we have a new Virtual Boy.
Bottom of the line, Nintendo half-assed the graphics. WTF, Nintendo? How in the world do they expect gamers to buy this? I know it's only one game, but this is not a good sign. The only way I can see this working is if they sell it for dirt cheap, and when I say dirt cheap I mean launching at $99 and dropping to $49 in about two years. It's very clear that they put 100% of their effort into the controller and just slightly increased the graphics and threw in a flash drive to download games onto. I'm sick of Nintendo always sacrificing one thing for another.
The idea that gameplay is more important than graphics is a joke as well. They are both equally important imo. I don't care if Tetris wouldn't sell today. Gamers aren't looking for that type of game. Tetris has come and gone. If that's the target Nintendo is going after, they need to hook up with McDonalds the way there are games in Bennigans or sports bars. They could also make cheap PC games like Solitare.
I think Rev is going to do worse than GC. They controller sounds cool, I like the idea of immersion, but to really immerse someone the graphics (and sound) need to be there as well. I know it's been said a thousand times in the past, but this controller needs a visor. That's the only way I could see graphics like that working. The wow factor of seeing something in true 3D could potentially outweigh the poorer graphics. Not all games would have to use it, but games like Red Steel would truely benefit. At this point, I hope the other secret(s) about Revolution are just important as the controller, otherwise, I think we have a new Virtual Boy.
I think it's most apparent improvement is lighting, but yeah when you see the images close up it's easy to see where it falls behind.
But I think from how the gameplay sounds it seems pretty amazing. I guess it's the sort of things that a billion games will be doing on Rev in short order so the novelty might wear off at some point, but I think it sounds cool.
But I think from how the gameplay sounds it seems pretty amazing. I guess it's the sort of things that a billion games will be doing on Rev in short order so the novelty might wear off at some point, but I think it sounds cool.
PhoenixDark
Banned
More graphics talk? -_-
I'm far more interested in how the game plays and controls. Granted, there's no doubt in my mind that Nintendo is going to have a tough time selling this to the public. Imo, the Revolution will barely do better than the Gamecube.
But I'm just excited about the gameplay right now.
I'm far more interested in how the game plays and controls. Granted, there's no doubt in my mind that Nintendo is going to have a tough time selling this to the public. Imo, the Revolution will barely do better than the Gamecube.
But I'm just excited about the gameplay right now.
Companion Cube
Member
That's more suicidal than the whole 1.5 thing. You crazy son.MadOdorMachine said:
Yeah the gameplay already sounds like it puts the Revolution safely out of Virtual Boy territory.
I really want to see a video of it, that will give a much clearer impression of how well the control method words, what new things it allows, and if it seems intuitive.
I really want to see a video of it, that will give a much clearer impression of how well the control method words, what new things it allows, and if it seems intuitive.
MadOdorMachine said:
Yeah, it's true that the longer you look at it, the more flaws you see, but just reading this thread, it's clear that most people are satisfied with the visual quality and are mostly looking forward to the gameplay (which sounds incredible)... I think it looks next gen... The overall effect the first time you see it is "hey, that's a good looking game" and it certainly looks better than anything on the gcn or the original xbox...
I don't think it will be a virtual boy at all.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
MadOdorMachine said:
To the other people that have seen the magazine in person, do the pics really look like this? I'm curious.
PhoenixDark said:
Do you want people to stop talking about the graphics now just because it's a Revolution game? :lol
mckmas 8808 said:
MadOdorMachine is riding a bit on the hyperbole train, but it clearly is behind comparable style games on 360 and PS3 from what we've seen so far. The characters sport significantly lower poly models, the geometry is not as dense, and the lighting falls short (although it's an improvement over Xbox, certainly). Textures aren't really bad, though, from what I see. I can't really tell how good/bad it is technically (considering the specs) until we see the scope of the levels, the amount of enemies, the framerate, etc. Unfortunately always in SD, though...
I tried to compare it to another Ubi game, Rainbow Six: Vegas (which, interestingly enough, is also slated to come to Revolution), and this is how I made my judgment.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Amir0x said:
I think you're right. The controller sounds perfect for FPS's but then you see the graphics and suddenly it's just depressing that Nintendo has the mentality it has. I think the novelty will wear off as well. If the game is played standing up and swinging your arms around, like the article states, it will get old to a lot of people real fast imo. Is this a system for gamers or for grandmas? From the graphics, I'm thinking grandmas, but I don't know anybody's grandma who would play something like Red Steel. WTF are they doing?
This is why I want to grab the magazine to see the screenshots. I have a feeling with regular size screenshots this game looks no better than a decent gamecube game, as the hyperbole about this game looking as good as x360 is out of control. But hey you can do a motion to roll a greneade, how cool is that? Ok, ok, I'm trying my best not to be cynical but it is tough. -__-
PhoenixDark
Banned
Amir0x said:
Well, no. I'm just annoyed that people start hating on the game solely because of the graphics. Everyone knows the Revolution's graphics, when compared to the PS3/360, are weaker than my grandma's bladder. It's no big suprise.
Sadly, I think a majority of gamers are going to have that kind of responce to the Revolution. For instance, Red Steel is going to be demonstrated alongside MGS4 and Gears of War at E3. If you sat down 100 casual gamers and had them watch the demonstration, which game do you think they'd be less interested in? I'm willing to bet they'd be far more fixated on the graphical beauty of MGS4 and GOW than the innovation of Red Steel. Nintendo is going to have to deal with that, and I don't think trying to appeal to a market that does not exist (IE "non gamers") in any important quanities is going to help.
Despite that, I'm going to get the Revolution on day 1, and I know I'll have fun. The Xbox 360 and PS3 will be more than enough to satisfy my graphics cravings. The Revolution is something different in my eyes
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
_PsiFire_ said:You know - the other day I was at a vending machine - trying to decide if I wanted Coke or Iced Tea - and you know what I saw??
The front of the vending machine was just a FLAT TEXTURE??
DAMN THE WORLD NOT USING HD VENDING MACHINES!!!!
The vending machine was the same type that would have candy bars or chips, not drinks. The inards of the machine were flat and muddy. If it were a Coke machine, I wouldn't be complaning.
MadOdorMachine said:
the article only suggested they enjoyed it most while they were standing up, it does not imply that it's easier to control while doing that or that it's even preferable. It's just something they liked to do, because it felt more immersive.
I don't see how that's a negative. It's an interesting dynamic to see how gamers choose to play...
...and grandmas don't give a fuck about videogames, so don't bother with that line. Basically Rev graphics will satisfy the casual provided the system is not sitting next to the PS3 kiosk running Lair or the 360 kiosk running Gears of War.
Nintendo's strategy is clear - innovative gameplay over a bloody graphics war, cheap system that nets them a profit. Is it good for me? I have my disagreements with their strategy, certainly, 'cause most of it isn't beneficial to me. But they still make the games I love, only now with this neat gameplay angle...
PhoenixDark said:
Just because we "know" that Revolution's graphics are going to be subpar compared to PS3/360 doesn't mean you don't comment on the fact. That's half the fuckin' point of commenting on screenshots. But yes, it looks to have kickass gameplay. There's also twenty pages discussing that, so there's room for both without saying/implying "gtfo graphics whores!"
PhoenixDark said:
I think you, and a lot of other people, are going to be VERY surprised by the reaction Revolution receives. Not only among hardcore, but among casual gamers as well. And at E3, you'll get your surprises and a shockingly robust level of developer support and people might start to get, dare I say, cautiously optimistic. You'll see.
Robobandit
Member
After enough people play games on ps3 and xbox 360, graphics will fade into the background too. There exists a point at which people will no longer be impressed, regardless of visual quality. Nintendo's gamble is on making games interesting enough to play that people won't care about the marginal improvement in graphics.
For you, it seems that their gamble might not pay off, but there are plenty of others that it will work for.
Hell, they even want their console to be a second or third choice for core gamers who own more than one console.
I'm most excited for Rev, but if anyone thinks that it means that I'm going to ignore the Xbox 360 and the Ps3, they are batshit insane.
Three console future, ftw!
I never understood the mentality of only owning one console, and I'm happy that Nintendo has decided to offer me something different than what I will get on the 360, even if it means that graphics will be a more moderate improvement over last gen than the "leap" that the 360 and PS3 are offering.
For you, it seems that their gamble might not pay off, but there are plenty of others that it will work for.
Hell, they even want their console to be a second or third choice for core gamers who own more than one console.
I'm most excited for Rev, but if anyone thinks that it means that I'm going to ignore the Xbox 360 and the Ps3, they are batshit insane.
Three console future, ftw!
I never understood the mentality of only owning one console, and I'm happy that Nintendo has decided to offer me something different than what I will get on the 360, even if it means that graphics will be a more moderate improvement over last gen than the "leap" that the 360 and PS3 are offering.
MadOdorMachine said:
That's because it's not a machine for grandmas, it's a machine for gamers and for anyone else who manages to enjoy the software the system gets
(which will primarily be gamers)
Not all gamers freak out over the amount of detail on the clothing and say, 'That's it, I can't enjoy this game anymore.'
Yes, graphics matter to an extent. But for a lot of gamers, they certainly don't matter to the extent that you're making them out to be. A 99$ console? The next Virtual Boy? Yeah, right.
Amir0x said:
Ami, as often as I've disagreed with things you've said, I have to commend you for this post, and I couldn't agree with it more.
PhoenixDark said:
Well, looking at the first couple pages in this thread, many people were pegging this game equal to X360 games by jumping the gun.
ALSO....MGS4 and Gears of War are going to be system sellers for their system. Red Steel won't even be the number one wanted game for the Rev, so why shouldn't gamers overlook it for a sequel to one of the best games ever made from one of the most talented companies on the planet and a new entry by a company with a rich history of fantastic games (epic). You make it sound like it is a crime for a game to have fantastic graphics coupled with great gameplay. Besides, you better worry more about Metroid Prime 3 overshadowing Red Steel than any PS3 or X360 game.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Mrbob said:
I'm not knocking on good graphics mixed with great gameplay at all. And to be frank, I do wish that Nintendo would have at least given the Rev some more RAM (128) and shader support.
pfft
I'm all depressed nowPhoenixDark said:I'm not knocking on good graphics mixed with great gameplay at all. And to be frank, I do wish that Nintendo would have at least given the Rev some more RAM (128) and shader support.
pfft
cheer up. There is no room for depression with the games that are gonna be announced for the little Rev in the upcoming weeks. Only pure joy.
Error2k4 said:I can't believe Amir0x is so optimistic about revolution
I can't wait for e3
Just 'cause I don't agree with every decision Nintendo has made regarding the thing doesn't mean I'm not very hyped.
Revolution is going to have a stunning E3, I cannot emphasize this enough. If it doesn't walk away with the show, I will be shocked.
Mrbob said:
I really feel like aside from the hardcore MP apologists, the bulk of gamers of Nintendo stuff are a bit tired of the burgeoning series after the sameness of MP2. I can't imagine MP3 being any different aside from the controls at all, and that alone wouldn't be enough to get me to buy it.
I can't help but feel not alone on this.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
It's gonna be kind of hard to throw a grenade and do these things while you're sittin down though. I understand that it's interactive, I'm just saying I think most casuals won't go for this. The people who play Madden would rather go play a real football game than have three of their friends swinging their arms around inside their house.Amir0x said:
Amir0x said:
I know grandma's don't play, but Nintendo seems hell bent on trying to get them to. Very few older adults play console games. Most adults my parents age will play something like Solitare or a game on their cell-phone. They won't go buy a game console. Nintendo is trying to get the Oprah crowd remember?
Amir0x said:
No you are wrong. Nintendo's strategy is to make money. They are too arrogant and reliant on their own franchises and think that their fanbase will continue to be shit on in return for their next game while they continue to stiff us. Nintendo has sacrificed one thing for another with their game systems since N64. On GC they actually sacrificed the software as well. They are milking people plain and simple.
Future Trunks
lemme tell you something son, this guy is SO FARKING HUGE HE'LL FLEX AND DESTROY THE SUN no shit
I could be wrong about this, but I noticed the flat textures in the vending machine too. But it looked to me at though the textures were flat because they were supposed to serve as pictorial representations of what was in the vending machine. A faded, not-so-high quality pic that represents what's in the machine. That was my natural reaction, I didn't have to think hard about it or anything. But I've also seen quite a few vending machines like that. So, yeah. Maybe it's ust me. Or maybe that's an indication that was the intention of the textures (to be that kind of vending machine) or that you as the gamer won't notice in the middle of action?
So, you complain about Nintendo going with new gameplay that's "perfect for FPS's" yet not going that extra step for graphics??MadOdorMachine said:
What about Microsoft and PS3?? Going that next step with graphics yet the same'ol stale gameplay (damn, dual-analog FPS's have NEVER BEEN GOOD - we, as gamers, simply bend over and accept it on our consoles)!!??
And the GI article doesn't say you HAVE to swing you arms around - they just preferred it during their play test.. You can rest your hands on your lap, same as current controllers and take it easy..
MadOdorMachine said:
I don't see why that's hard, all you're doing is flicking the revmote. You don't actually have to swing your arms around.
MadOdorMachine said:
Yeah but for the "Oprah Crowd", all they're doing is making shitty touchscreen tests. You don't need advanced hardware for that... indeed, you could do it on a GBA if it had a touchscreen. So that's irrelevant either way to their new strategy, you don't need advanced hardware for that.
MadOdorMachine said:
Right, Nintendo's strategy is to make money. That's where the "profit" part comes in with my post
But so is everyone else's strategy to make money. The only thing is they go about it in a different way. Personally I think Sony and Microsoft's strategy nets me, as a gamer, a better value... but they don't have Nintendo games, and they don't have revmote. So Nintendo's system has a very real reason for existence, imo.
I'm looking at the picture right here - and I've seen vending machines in real life that look similar.. The products shots on the machine are pictures and not the items that will slide out..MadOdorMachine said:
You really think the Rev can't handle seperate bottles of pop in a machine?? Why did UbiSoft go and do all those dollar bills as particle effects?? They better take them out because the system can't handle it. :|
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