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[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I dont even know whats going on anymore, much less who all these people being quoted from twitter are. Are they supposed to be important or someone every gamer should know or is this some inner circle thing?

There's a summary in the OP

Start there if you actually care

 

[Tye The Czar]

That would be this from the IRC channel logs helpfully provided by the organizers of Gamergate themselves (because they weren't aware this was buried in the 30 pages of text they provided. No one ever said they were smart):



Details of how this all went down, plus more really, really horrible excerpts from the logs, can be found here: Gamergate, the biggest and nastiest troll BS 4chan ever came up with, at least so far.

It's not about ethics in game journalism and never was -- that was a cover story.

Let's save copies of these logs. Pronto.

 

[Belladonna]

To be as fair as I possibly can be towards GG, law enforcement generally echos what the infographic is saying. Stating or sharing harassment does give what the troll wants in the end, so it's kind of a double edged sword.

There's a problem with this approach where GG is concerned though. This approach -- and why you use it -- is detailed in Gavin De Becker's series of "Fear" books, which discuss a wide range of personal security situations, including being on the receiving end of potentially dangerous harassment. In the situations he describes, the harasser is acting alone, and the reinforcement he or she gets for the behavior comes from the reaction of the victim. If there's no reaction, there's no reinforcement, and eventually the harasser gets bored and stops. This works pretty well for individual harassers/stalkers if they're not actually psychotic.

But when we're talking about a hate group, it's different. This is a situation that De Becker didn't cover in his books. It's different, because the hate group reinforces each other regardless of what action the victim takes. They share stories of what they did, compete to try and top each other to be the most "cool" in the group, and that sort of thing. You can see this dynamic operating plainly in those IRC channel logs I linked to in my last post -- the way the members urge each other on. At that point, the reinforcement comes from their buddies and stopping it by ignoring it no longer works. You couldn't stop the KKK from lynching you by ignoring them -- if they wanted to lynch you, they would lynch you. You can also see this dynamic in middle and high school -- if the bullies gang up, ignoring them isn't an option for their chosen victims. The mob will win. A solo bully you might outwit or outlast, but a group? No.

Similarly, ignoring GG would not have worked, not for the primary targets at least. (It might have worked for some of the secondary targets, possibly.) They would have continued to reinforce and egg each other on and their victims would have been left to suffer in silence with no one knowing what they were going through and damned little support.

When it's a reinforcing group that's behind the harassment, ignoring it just doesn't work. Exposing it and combating it directly by continuing to show and stress that this behavior is not going to ever become an accepted social norm, that they will never succeed in getting any legitimacy of any kind as long as they keep being vicious, that there will be unpleasant consequences for doing this kind of thing, is the only way to bring it to an end. GG will end when the cost of being associated with it becomes too high for the membership, basically. When they are blocked on Twitter, as is happening; when the only news stories written about them stress how awful they are, as is happening; when they come to realize what the people actually working in the industry they claim to love actually think of them and what they're doing, and how they'll never get a job in that industry if it comes out they associated with Gamergate and took part in its activities -- this is what will kill Gamergate, not silence from Gamergate's victims.

This is why, if you look on KiA, the talk is all about how "We're winning!" (BS), "The industry supports us, but they're afraid to say so!" (Total and complete BS), and so on. The /b/tards yanking the strings know that if their footsoldiers really get a grip on what this mess is costing them, that will be the end of it. And it will.

That's why silence would have been the wrong call here.

Edited to add: Another step in the right direction as Patreon updates its guidelines to specifically deny its service to harassers, doxers, hate groups, coordinated fraud -- as well as people encouraging any of this kind of behavior.

 

[Mohonky]

There's a summary in the OP

Start there if you actually care

That doesnt help me understand who is in all these retweets? Are they just pissed off gamers, journalists etc? There are so many names being thrown about I cant tell whether I should know these names or not and what their relation to the argument is?

 

[sensui-tomo]

That doesnt help me understand who is in all these retweets? Are they just pissed off gamers, journalists etc? There are so many names being thrown about I cant tell whether I should know these names or not and what their relation to the argument is?

the only names i know are the ones posted above (anita,wu,that kotaku guy and the person who made depression quest) and adam baldwin(yes the actor from chuck or that one dude from mass effect 2) personally i could care less about each individual(I wont know them on a personal level) but none of them should be harassed and thats that, they got their views and i got mine. Simple really. oh and not having a twitter always has helped me out.

 

[mo60]

I dont even know whats going on anymore, much less who all these people being quoted from twitter are. Are they supposed to be important or someone every gamer should know or is this some inner circle thing?

All the twitter accounts mentioned in this thread either wrote something vile or stupid and support gamergate, said something that would anger the gaters like a meme, or have been harassed , doxxed or stalked by gaters

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

That doesnt help me understand who is in all these retweets? Are they just pissed off gamers, journalists etc? There are so many names being thrown about I cant tell whether I should know these names or not and what their relation to the argument is?

Do you just want someone to tell you everything about the past 4 months of fuckery or what

 

[excelsiorlef]

With Patreon now adopting a ToS in the next week or so that explictedly denies access to harassers, abusers. doxxers, etc..

HotWheels has decided to literally use his disability as a shield/front to keep funding 8Chan.

It's not a new patreon, oh not he literally changed this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141206230223/http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165

into

this:

http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165

Fucking asshole.

 

[Belladonna]

With Patreon now adopting a ToS in the next week or so that explictedly denies access to harassers, abusers. doxxers, etc..

HotWheels has decided to literally use his disability as a shield/front to keep funding 8Chan.

It's not a new patreon, oh not he literally changed this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141206230223/http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165

into

this:

http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165

Fucking asshole.

Won't help him. Check this out:

People with a dangerous criminal history or known affiliation with violent or dangerous groups including terrorist or cyberterrorist organizations, organized criminal groups, and violent hate groups, cannot receive funds through Patreon, no matter the purpose or apparent intention of their Patreon page.

That could have been tailor-made to fit Hotwheels, and may well have been.

 

[mo60]

With Patreon now adopting a ToS in the next week or so that explictedly denies access to harassers, abusers. doxxers, etc..

HotWheels has decided to literally use his disability as a shield/front to keep funding 8Chan.

It's not a new patreon, oh not he literally changed this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141206230223/http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165

into

this:

http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165

Fucking asshole.

I hope patreon still looks at the page and removes it because he may not be using the patreon donations for the cat which most likely violates patreon's new TOU.

 

[sensui-tomo]

With Patreon now adopting a ToS in the next week or so that explictedly denies access to harassers, abusers. doxxers, etc..

HotWheels has decided to literally use his disability as a shield/front to keep funding 8Chan.

It's not a new patreon, oh not he literally changed this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141206230223/http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165

into

this:

http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165

Fucking asshole.

.... is there a way you can wipe my memory since theres no fathomable way i can accept seeing that page.(unless that could actually be feasable to pay someone in which case i take that back... also yes i know the context of this scam so patreon cant take it down)

Won't help him. Check this out:



That could have been tailor-made to fit Hotwheels, and may well have been.

for that bottom quote, Anon is considered a cyberterrorist group right?(i dont know actually)

 

[excelsiorlef]

Won't help him. Check this out:



That could have been tailor-made to fit Hotwheels, and may well have been.

Hopefully. It's also a thinly veiled patreon, he legit says one video a week and the rest will got to other "charities" LOL,

I just hope Patreon actually sticks with it and does their job. I just worry they'll turn a blind eye in he name of profit.

 

[Belladonna]

for that bottom quote, Anon is considered a cyberterrorist group right?(i dont know actually)

Yes they are, so no one will be able to start up a Patreon for Anonymous. Which is something that Anonymous would mercilessly mock anyway if someone tried, I think. People associated with Anonymous have gotten arrested, so Anonymous doesn't have these weird ideas that they somehow actually have concealed identities on the Internet that can survive close scrutiny by interested authorities if they do stuff like set up Patreons. The GulpingGiraffes haven't learned this yet but someday there will likely be a knock on some doors, and outside will be a couple of G-men with stern expressions and badges....

Edited to add:

Whoomp, There It Is: Patreon Dumps Hotwheels

 

[Tye The Czar]

With Patreon now adopting a ToS in the next week or so that explictedly denies access to harassers, abusers. doxxers, etc..

HotWheels has decided to literally use his disability as a shield/front to keep funding 8Chan.

It's not a new patreon, oh not he literally changed this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141206230223/http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165

into

this:

http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165

Fucking asshole.

Then we appeal. We point out this fact. We explicitly notify Patreon that he houses many of the doxxers. Remember. Show evidence and be consistent with your message.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yes they are, so no one will be able to start up a Patreon for Anonymous. Which is something that Anonymous would mercilessly mock anyway if someone tried, I think. People associated with Anonymous have gotten arrested, so Anonymous doesn't have these weird ideas that they somehow actually have concealed identities on the Internet that can survive close scrutiny by interested authorities if they do stuff like set up Patreons. The GulpingGiraffes haven't learned this yet but someday there will likely be a knock on some doors, and outside will be a couple of G-men with stern expressions and badges....

Edited to add:

Whoomp, There It Is: Patreon Dumps Hotwheels

That's what caused him to change it to be about his cat (he links that right in his Patreon which is still up). It remains to be seen if Patreon will see through that obvious bullshittery

 

[mo60]

So gaters are continuing to think that people that do not support there movement are anti-gamers. I'm not linking to the video where I found this info,but it's from MundaneMatt who has made a bunch of videos that are offensive to females.This is not the first time I heard gaters saying this sadly.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

So gaters now think that people that do not support there movement are anti-gamers. I'm not linking to the video where I found this info,but it's from MundaneMatt who has made a bunch of videos that are offensive to females.This is not the first time I heard gaters saying this sadly.

I think it takes a special sort of talent for one to be able to perceive themselves to be in a "Us versus The World" kind of situation. Of course the world is against you. Even my mum and dad who know nothing about games is anti gamergate.

 

[rpmurphy]

Yes they are, so no one will be able to start up a Patreon for Anonymous. Which is something that Anonymous would mercilessly mock anyway if someone tried, I think. People associated with Anonymous have gotten arrested, so Anonymous doesn't have these weird ideas that they somehow actually have concealed identities on the Internet that can survive close scrutiny by interested authorities if they do stuff like set up Patreons. The GulpingGiraffes haven't learned this yet but someday there will likely be a knock on some doors, and outside will be a couple of G-men with stern expressions and badges....

Edited to add:

Whoomp, There It Is: Patreon Dumps Hotwheels

While we understand your commitment to free speech, we will not allow 8chan to continue using Patreon, as several boards facilitate the distribution of harmful content and activity, such as illustrated child exploitation imagery. Other violations include facilitating the promotion and/or encouragement to commit self harm, and facilitating the promotion and/or encouragement of pedophilia practices. While we are aware that illustrated child exploitation imagery is not illegal in the United States, we take a strict stance, regardless of the law, on the usage of Patreon to fund or facilitate its distribution.

So it was the discussion of "self harm", distribution of lolicon, and discussion of pedophilia on the site that caused Patreon to drop him, not anything related to GG activities.

What's stopping him from getting his cat Patreon from being funded then?

 

[mo60]

So it was the discussion of "self harm", distribution of lolicon, and discussion of pedophilia on the site that caused Patreon to drop him, not anything related to GG activities.

What's stopping him from getting his cat Patreon from being funded then?

I think the only thing that will stop his cat patreon is that he may not be actually using the patreon for the cat which is probably against patreon's rules

 

[Shrike_Priest]

There's a problem with this approach where GG is concerned though. This approach -- and why you use it -- is detailed in Gavin De Becker's series of "Fear" books, which discuss a wide range of personal security situations, including being on the receiving end of potentially dangerous harassment. In the situations he describes, the harasser is acting alone, and the reinforcement he or she gets for the behavior comes from the reaction of the victim. If there's no reaction, there's no reinforcement, and eventually the harasser gets bored and stops. This works pretty well for individual harassers/stalkers if they're not actually psychotic.

But when we're talking about a hate group, it's different. This is a situation that De Becker didn't cover in his books. It's different, because the hate group reinforces each other regardless of what action the victim takes. They share stories of what they did, compete to try and top each other to be the most "cool" in the group, and that sort of thing. You can see this dynamic operating plainly in those IRC channel logs I linked to in my last post -- the way the members urge each other on. At that point, the reinforcement comes from their buddies and stopping it by ignoring it no longer works. You couldn't stop the KKK from lynching you by ignoring them -- if they wanted to lynch you, they would lynch you. You can also see this dynamic in middle and high school -- if the bullies gang up, ignoring them isn't an option for their chosen victims. The mob will win. A solo bully you might outwit or outlast, but a group? No.

Similarly, ignoring GG would not have worked, not for the primary targets at least. (It might have worked for some of the secondary targets, possibly.) They would have continued to reinforce and egg each other on and their victims would have been left to suffer in silence with no one knowing what they were going through and damned little support.

When it's a reinforcing group that's behind the harassment, ignoring it just doesn't work. Exposing it and combating it directly by continuing to show and stress that this behavior is not going to ever become an accepted social norm, that they will never succeed in getting any legitimacy of any kind as long as they keep being vicious, that there will be unpleasant consequences for doing this kind of thing, is the only way to bring it to an end. GG will end when the cost of being associated with it becomes too high for the membership, basically. When they are blocked on Twitter, as is happening; when the only news stories written about them stress how awful they are, as is happening; when they come to realize what the people actually working in the industry they claim to love actually think of them and what they're doing, and how they'll never get a job in that industry if it comes out they associated with Gamergate and took part in its activities -- this is what will kill Gamergate, not silence from Gamergate's victims.

This is why, if you look on KiA, the talk is all about how "We're winning!" (BS), "The industry supports us, but they're afraid to say so!" (Total and complete BS), and so on. The /b/tards yanking the strings know that if their footsoldiers really get a grip on what this mess is costing them, that will be the end of it. And it will.

That's why silence would have been the wrong call here.

Edited to add: Another step in the right direction as Patreon updates its guidelines to specifically deny its service to harassers, doxers, hate groups, coordinated fraud -- as well as people encouraging any of this kind of behavior.

This post is full of facts and accurate analysis.

Also, nice to see Patreon stepping up its game.



But, the reason I'm in here again (apart from GG being the equivalent of ideological crack), was Tye's posts.

I agree fully with the second list on how to approach "moderates", and with the exception of some awfully annoying sea lions, I think that's what the users of this thread have done. Educate, be polite, try and explain our point of view and call out bullshit conspiracy when we see it.

However, the first list of bullet points kind of irks me. Sending examples of their harassment back to families, bosses, etc. That's shitty behavior. I get the point of somehow holding them accountable for their actions, however, I think you're crossing a line somewhere there. Sure if you come across someone on PSN/Live who's being an asshole, make some logs and report them. Or on forums etc. But sending stuff to their family is A. potentially harmful to more than the individual harasser. B. will not change the behavior any way. Getting harassing individuals off of the platforms where gamers should feel safe is a good cause, but I really do get "Ops"-vibes from the notion of making records and mailing it to their family and bosses. If it's the case of a confirmed minor, where an adult technically has some legal responsibility, it might be defendable. But in the case of an adult, that's crossing the line into some kind of counter-harassment.

 

[Water]

I think it takes a special sort of talent for one to be able to perceive themselves to be in a "Us versus The World" kind of situation. Of course the world is against you. Even my mum and dad who know nothing about games is anti gamergate.

How do they know anything about #gamergate if they know nothing about games?

 

[CurlyW]

I'm pretty sure that at least 50% of GGers don't play games.

 

[Jumplion]

There's a problem with this approach where GG is concerned though. This approach -- and why you use it -- is detailed in Gavin De Becker's series of "Fear" books, which discuss a wide range of personal security situations, including being on the receiving end of potentially dangerous harassment. In the situations he describes, the harasser is acting alone, and the reinforcement he or she gets for the behavior comes from the reaction of the victim. If there's no reaction, there's no reinforcement, and eventually the harasser gets bored and stops. This works pretty well for individual harassers/stalkers if they're not actually psychotic.

But when we're talking about a hate group, it's different. This is a situation that De Becker didn't cover in his books. It's different, because the hate group reinforces each other regardless of what action the victim takes. They share stories of what they did, compete to try and top each other to be the most "cool" in the group, and that sort of thing. You can see this dynamic operating plainly in those IRC channel logs I linked to in my last post -- the way the members urge each other on. At that point, the reinforcement comes from their buddies and stopping it by ignoring it no longer works. You couldn't stop the KKK from lynching you by ignoring them -- if they wanted to lynch you, they would lynch you. You can also see this dynamic in middle and high school -- if the bullies gang up, ignoring them isn't an option for their chosen victims. The mob will win. A solo bully you might outwit or outlast, but a group? No.

Similarly, ignoring GG would not have worked, not for the primary targets at least. (It might have worked for some of the secondary targets, possibly.) They would have continued to reinforce and egg each other on and their victims would have been left to suffer in silence with no one knowing what they were going through and damned little support.

When it's a reinforcing group that's behind the harassment, ignoring it just doesn't work. Exposing it and combating it directly by continuing to show and stress that this behavior is not going to ever become an accepted social norm, that they will never succeed in getting any legitimacy of any kind as long as they keep being vicious, that there will be unpleasant consequences for doing this kind of thing, is the only way to bring it to an end. GG will end when the cost of being associated with it becomes too high for the membership, basically. When they are blocked on Twitter, as is happening; when the only news stories written about them stress how awful they are, as is happening; when they come to realize what the people actually working in the industry they claim to love actually think of them and what they're doing, and how they'll never get a job in that industry if it comes out they associated with Gamergate and took part in its activities -- this is what will kill Gamergate, not silence from Gamergate's victims.

This is why, if you look on KiA, the talk is all about how "We're winning!" (BS), "The industry supports us, but they're afraid to say so!" (Total and complete BS), and so on. The /b/tards yanking the strings know that if their footsoldiers really get a grip on what this mess is costing them, that will be the end of it. And it will.

That's why silence would have been the wrong call here.

Edited to add: Another step in the right direction as Patreon updates its guidelines to specifically deny its service to harassers, doxers, hate groups, coordinated fraud -- as well as people encouraging any of this kind of behavior.

Really compelling arguments here, there definitely is a difference between an individual versus a whole collective group dishing out this crap. I think after all of this I've been more optimistic about the individual characters in this whole scenario rather than the group as a whole.

I think it's doubly an issue for women specifically, especially considering that showing the extent of the harassment is the only way to really bring attention to the issue of said harassment. GG has simultaneously stiffled people from speaking out and brought out the best evidence (or worst, depending on how you look at it) for this issue of harassment and trolling online, especially towards women.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

How do they know anything about #gamergate if they know nothing about games?

It's been on MSNBC and in the New York Times and Time magazine

oh yeah, Fox News (ugh) too

 

[Deleted member 20920]

How do they know anything about #gamergate if they know nothing about games?

I was going by their own logic where they said that those who don't support gamergate are anti gamergate. Since my parents know nothing about it and are therefore not supporting gamergate by proxy, gamergators would see my parents as being anti gamergate anti-gamers. They're too entrenched in the "if you're not with us you're against us" mentality.

In any case, any sane people who hear about how and why gamergate originated would probably not want to support the movement and think that some of these people are nutters, even when they know nothing about games. The Milos (@Nero) of the movement know nothing about games and yet they can say they support gamergate. Non gamers can likewise see what they're doing and dimiss gamer gaters as well.

 

[TheTwelve]

I'm pretty sure that at least 50% of GGers don't play games.

Much higher %. On both sides of this particular debate.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Much higher %. On both sides of this particular debate.

Couldn't resist, could ya

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Much higher %. On both sides of this particular debate.

There's no debate.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Oh, you guys found my twitter account.

This cracked me up way more than it should have.

 

[call_kotaku]

There's no debate.

The debate is about whether or not there is a debate, just like there's a conspiracy about covering up the conspiracy

 

[Lalalandia]

Much higher %. On both sides of this particular debate.

Hello Golden Mean fallacy it's been a while, tell me about how it's possible to support a hate campaign again? Is it because the victims have opinions you disagree with?

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I'm always reminded of the opening of the Star Wars Ep 3 text when I read something about "both sides"

Cause I always wondered what the hell Lucas was thinking when he wrote "There are heroes on both sides"

 

[TheTwelve]

Hello Golden Mean fallacy it's been a while, tell me about how it's possible to support a hate campaign again? Is it because the victims have opinions you disagree with?

You'd have to ask people who support hate campaigns.

As for me, I have been highly interested in the entire #Gamergate discussion from the very start and particularly as it's been played out through twitter. From what I've seen, it's moved from a discussion between gamers into a place where the biggest voices haven't or currently don't talk about the games they are currently playing.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. It might be a reflection of how big videogames is in our culture. Certainly, the actual playing of videogames isn't important compared to the real people behind them. I got that. However, I don't know how I feel about non-gamers acting as if they will decide the fate of gaming.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

You'd have to ask people who support hate campaigns.

As for me, I have been highly interested in the entire #Gamergate discussion from the very start and particularly as it's been played out through twitter. From what I've seen, it's moved from a discussion between gamers into a place where the biggest voices haven't or currently don't talk about the games they are currently playing.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. It might be a reflection of how big videogames is in our culture. Certainly, the actual playing of videogames isn't important compared to the real people behind them. I got that. However, I don't know how I feel about non-gamers acting as if they will decide the fate of gaming.

You honestly think because they don't talk about what games they're currently playing (despite the fact that they do fairly regularly) that they don't play games? Not sure who you're actually looking at, but while this holds true for GG (because they're too busy harassing people), it doesn't for their targets. Some names would help so people knew exactly who you're referring to, but as long as you remain vague you will be considered as talking out of your ass, especially since you seem to think how this plays out will "decide the fate of gaming."

 

[Brakke]

I'm always reminded of the opening of the Star Wars Ep 3 text when I read something about "both sides"

Cause I always wondered what the hell Lucas was thinking when he wrote "There are heroes on both sides"

Sort of figured that was a Classic myth sort of thing. Achilles and Aeneas and Ajax(es) are all Heroes but that basically just means they're good at killing people and they're characters in the story that get names. Being favored by a God doesn't necessarily make you venerable.

But more likely, Lucas is just a knucklehead.

 

[TheTwelve]

I'm always reminded of the opening of the Star Wars Ep 3 text when I read something about "both sides"

Cause I always wondered what the hell Lucas was thinking when he wrote "There are heroes on both sides"

Even bad guys have heroes from their own bad guy POV

You honestly think because they don't talk about what games they're currently playing (despite the fact that they do fairly regularly) that they don't play games? Not sure who you're actually looking at, but while this holds true for GG (because they're too busy harassing people), it doesn't for their targets. Some names would help so people knew exactly who you're referring to, but as long as you remain vague you will be considered as talking out of your ass, especially since you seem to think how this plays out will "decide the fate of gaming."

You don't see it? You don't see gaming culture moving from a place where people were happy to be called "gamers" into something else? This may be "gaming" growing up. It might be ok for people who do not game to have a say in what games should be like. Ok. Fine.

It's probably also the fault of the GGers, who have tarnished the name "gamer" by their actions. (I do think there are a few good people on the GG side, but why they cling to the name "GG" is beyond me; the name is stained and cannot be redeemed.)

But you cannot tell me that the biggest discussions about gaming today are being held by "gamers". Once this issue has entered mainstream media and news outlets, a shift has occurred.

Remember "'Gamers' Are Over"? ---> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

I think that article published in August details where we are going. Is this good or bad? I don't know.

 

[stump sock]

But more likely, Lucas is just a knucklehead.

probably this.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Even bad guys have heroes from their own bad guy POV



You don't see it? You don't see gaming culture moving from a place where people were happy to be called "gamers" into something else? This may be "gaming" growing up. It might be ok for people who do not game to have a say in what games should be like. Ok. Fine.

It's probably also the fault of the GGers, who have tarnished the name "gamer" by their actions. (I do think there are a few good people on the GG side, but why they cling to the name "GG" is beyond me; the name is stained and cannot be redeemed.)

But you cannot tell me that the biggest discussions about gaming today are being held by "gamers". Once this issue has entered mainstream media and news outlets, a shift has occurred.

Remember "'Gamers' Are Over"? ---> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

I think that article published in August details where we are going. Is this good or bad? I don't know.

That article detailed where gaming culture was headed and implored people to steer it toward something better. If you disagree with that that's fine but it damn sure doesn't warrant an organized harassment campaign and hate group formation.

The reason major outlets picked this up is because games media and the industry at large refused to address it out of fear of losing money and it spilled out into the real world because of the disgusting actions of GG. This, however, doesn't mean gamers aren't conducting the majority of discourse on GG. And anyway, this needless fixation on defining "true gamers" is meaningless.

 

[Lalalandia]

You'd have to ask people who support hate campaigns.

As for me, I have been highly interested in the entire #Gamergate discussion from the very start and particularly as it's been played out through twitter. From what I've seen, it's moved from a discussion between gamers into a place where the biggest voices haven't or currently don't talk about the games they are currently playing.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. It might be a reflection of how big videogames is in our culture. Certainly, the actual playing of videogames isn't important compared to the real people behind them. I got that. However, I don't know how I feel about non-gamers acting as if they will decide the fate of gaming.

So you've been interested in GG since it was a rebranding of the Zoepost? When it was named GG by a retweet of that disgusting asshole MundaneMatts' video called 'Five Guys Burgers and Fries' by non-game player Adam Baldwin?

If you have been in GG from the start then you know the 'ethical concern' behind GG was an easily dismissed claim about the Zoepost (Nathan Grayson and the non-existent review) and the fallout from gaming websites closing down discussion of the easily dismissed allegation from the Zoepost.

It was never a 'discussion between gamers' and it has always circled back to a discussion of women in gaming, even the strange reading comprehension fail that got tacked on over the Gamasutra article shows this. We've spent months going in circles over an article by Leigh Alexander but the multiple other discussions of the need to expand gaming beyond the marketing demographic of 'young white male = gamer' keep returning to the article by a woman.

The only 'nongamers' who have tried to 'decide the fate of gaming' have been Adam Baldwin, Milo Yiannopolus and Christina Hoff Sommers all of GGs targets are gamers.

 

[chaobreaker]

You'd have to ask people who support hate campaigns.

As for me, I have been highly interested in the entire #Gamergate discussion from the very start and particularly as it's been played out through twitter. From what I've seen, it's moved from a discussion between gamers into a place where the biggest voices haven't or currently don't talk about the games they are currently playing.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. It might be a reflection of how big videogames is in our culture. Certainly, the actual playing of videogames isn't important compared to the real people behind them. I got that. However, I don't know how I feel about non-gamers acting as if they will decide the fate of gaming.

Please read the 5th post of this thread.

EDIT: Just to let you know, for the past 4 months we've had a a lot of new or dormant GAF accounts coming to these threads with deceptively obtuse opinions of this whole GG debacle. Most of them are banned now. I suggest you should at least read that 5th post before making another post.

 

[A Link to the Past]

"Non-gamers"? K...

 

[BamfMeat]

Even bad guys have heroes from their own bad guy POV



You don't see it? You don't see gaming culture moving from a place where people were happy to be called "gamers" into something else? This may be "gaming" growing up. It might be ok for people who do not game to have a say in what games should be like. Ok. Fine.

It's probably also the fault of the GGers, who have tarnished the name "gamer" by their actions. (I do think there are a few good people on the GG side, but why they cling to the name "GG" is beyond me; the name is stained and cannot be redeemed.)

But you cannot tell me that the biggest discussions about gaming today are being held by "gamers". Once this issue has entered mainstream media and news outlets, a shift has occurred.

Remember "'Gamers' Are Over"? ---> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

I think that article published in August details where we are going. Is this good or bad? I don't know.

Except, isn't Leigh Alexander a gamer? And isn't Gamasutra a site specifically for video game developers? I'm not sure what your point is when referencing this article.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

That's it, I'm revoking your gamer's license. Hand in your badge and your gun.

Also, I can't help but giggle laugh uncontrollably when I read stuff like

I call myself a reasonably intelligent person but I can't wrap my mind around how total like Quinn get into positions where their voice is heard and obeyed by multinational companies. In the current case Patreon is now bending to the will of Quinn and her ilk. Why? Is it personal reasons? Ideological? Financial?

And some people though the Illuminati are controlling the world. Actually, it's Zoe Quinn.

 

[Belladonna]

Please read the 5th post of this thread.

EDIT: Just to let you know, for the past 4 months we've had a a lot of new or dormant GAF accounts coming to these threads with deceptively obtuse opinions of this whole GG debacle. Most of them are banned now. I suggest you should at least read that 5th post before making another post.

These folks have been taking marching orders from 8chan. It's called "Operation Volcano" (*snicker*)

Instructions from their Chan Overlords:

Method: Spread evidence of pro-censorship stances on all gaming boards, reddit, comment sections, chans and any other places where gamers gather. Do not mention gamergate.

Do not raid or spam.

Do not try to make a grand case on why gamers need to stand against those trying to take away their games. Do not under any circumstances mention feminism, SJWs or anything related.

Just bring up a few sources that show relevant people expressing pro-censorship opinions. Who counts as relevant? Only journos and those the journos are giving a platform.

Random Twitter celebs do not matter.

Avoid guilt by association further removed than a single link. Do not bring up any academic papers, do not defend games against causing violence. Your sole goal is to make gamers read the information with as open a mind as possible.

To this end, you need to avoid appearing like a cultist, an activist, a salesman, a lunatic, a conspiracy theorist and anything similar to those. Do not mention corruption or anything else linked to gamergate.

Do not give anyone any way to accuse you of belonging to gamergate. If someone does, deny the accusation. Be careful not to show too much knowledge of gamergate if you do this.

You do not want to appear like someone who has a stake in this, neither pro nor anti. At all costs avoid engaging in arguments about whether or not removing games from a store constitutes censorship.

And this one as well:

Stop using Anti-Gamergate. Start using Anti-Gamer. This will piss a lot of them off because they hate being called casuals in the first place.

I refuse to link to anything on 8chan because I don't want to spread slime all over the place, but if you want to see the originals you can Google "8chan gamergate" and they'll pop right on up.

 

[cerulily]

Even bad guys have heroes from their own bad guy POV



You don't see it? You don't see gaming culture moving from a place where people were happy to be called "gamers" into something else? This may be "gaming" growing up. It might be ok for people who do not game to have a say in what games should be like. Ok. Fine.

It's probably also the fault of the GGers, who have tarnished the name "gamer" by their actions. (I do think there are a few good people on the GG side, but why they cling to the name "GG" is beyond me; the name is stained and cannot be redeemed.)

But you cannot tell me that the biggest discussions about gaming today are being held by "gamers". Once this issue has entered mainstream media and news outlets, a shift has occurred.

Remember "'Gamers' Are Over"? ---> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

I think that article published in August details where we are going. Is this good or bad? I don't know.

This is a pretty petty assertion. Games are not a niche market anymore, everyone IS allowed to have opinions about it because it is both part of the mainstream culture and because our society itself allows individuals to express legitimate opinions about topics they may not necessarily have an intimate identity with.

However, beyond that, one does not require an in depth knowledge of hundreds of games to clearly see that every top selling game is narrowly enforcing certain stereotypes. It's so common that it is almost a priori what the target market and stereotypes of those games are.

The entire point of gg was a reaction to the assertion that this is a status quo that is important enough to be discussed. which is troubling in itself and its intent to be a campaign of silencing voices is self evident regardless of their insistence that it's campaign protecting some kind of freedom from "PC" censorship.

That is why there is no real debate. That's why the mainstream is completely legitimized in speaking about it. And that's why if you truly identify S a moderate than you would no longer identify with gg

 

[Beelzebufo]

As crazy as that whole operation volcano thing is, it speaks volumes that they think the one true problem that everyone can relate to (after you take away the SJWs and feminism and other even crazier stuff) is "people taking away your videogames".

The thing the think is the least crazy and most relatable is something only a paranoid crazy person would think is happening.

Edit: Missed a not in there somewhere lol. My bad. It's still ridiculous.

 

[sasliquid]

As crazy as that whole operation volcano thing is, it speaks volumes that they think the one true problem that everyone can relate to (after you take away the SJWs and feminism and other even crazier stuff) is "people taking away your videogames".

The thing the think is the least crazy and most relatable is something only a paranoid crazy person would think is happening.

Edit: Missed a not in there somewhere lol. My bad. It's still ridiculous.

The most generous way we can describe gamergate is that it's a debate about inclusiveness vs. censorship

But that's being extremely generous

 

[chaobreaker]

I just find it hilarious that the MO of all these GG operations is to muster support and improve their image by misleading others of their true intentions. Like they know they look like a cultish group of lunatics so they have to argue their case in specific way to prevent themselves from looking like that.

They literally know they're full of shit but are still at this fucking game. Boggles the goddamn mind, it does.

 

[endless dave]

Hotwheels switching his Patreon to the cat videos isn't anything I'd put past him. He's always thought he's much smarter than he is. Y'know, like most libertarians

But him and his followers using his disability as a cudgel to ward off criticism is fucking gross. To say "You're trying to prevent me, a disabled person, from doing my job" without saying "my job is to host the vilest parts of the Internet from the safety of southeast Asia" is so underhanded and slimy. Not to be unexpected, but then for scumbags like Cernovich to jump in with threats (that will never be followed up on) like "Let's see what happens when Patreon tries to discriminate against a disabled man" like that's the crux of the matter here is just such a perfect representation of the nature of this entire thing

(edit) and of course the videos are shot in portrait http://youtu.be/G1bV0NBeG8E

 

[DrPizza]

Hotwheels switching his Patreon to the cat videos isn't anything I'd put past him. He's always thought he's much smarter than he is. Y'know, like most libertarians

But him and his followers using his disability as a cudgel to ward off criticism is fucking gross. To say "You're trying to prevent me, a disabled person, from doing my job" without saying "my job is to host the vilest parts of the Internet from the safety of southeast Asia" is so underhanded and slimy. Not to be unexpected, but then for scumbags like Cernovich to jump in with threats (that will never be followed up on) like "Let's see what happens when Patreon tries to discriminate against a disabled man" like that's the crux of the matter here is just such a perfect representation of the nature of this entire thing

(edit) and of course the videos are shot in portrait http://youtu.be/G1bV0NBeG8E

It's almost as if they were using his disability as a shield.