Did they really? Because I keep seeing GGers say that "They didn't mention Gamergate so they're totally not against us!"
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#GamerGate thread 2: it's about feminism in games journalism
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Did they really? Because I keep seeing GGers say that "They didn't mention Gamergate so they're totally not against us!"
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Well, that's hilarious since...
I mean, how the fuck can you spin that?
Please don't answer because I'm sure it's incredible.
Another reverse psychology win for Gamergate. Is there anything Gamergate won't fight against that will have the exact opposite of what their goals are come true!?
Yeah, but you know how dense these Gamergaters are. Unless someone explicitly states that Gamergate is bad, they'll keep thinking that they're not the ones being called out.
Even though I know you're joking (because you clarify at the end of your statement), this kind of response is a tad dismissive of those who actually were harassed and targeted through the last few months.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I honestly don't think it's a matter of "intelligence".
I think it has to do more with prejudice and controlling the traditional stereotypes of games.
More_Badass
Member
The mind of the average gator
"Intel mentions the incident in which they were tricked into pulling ads due to an article that had people in an uproar, but doesn't outright say the literal word GamerGate, even though it's crystal clear due to what went on for the last five months" = "See, they didn't say anything bad about GamerGate. They still support us!"
It's so mindbogglingly dense that a sensible person can only shake their head and laugh
Banananana
Neo Member
Yeah, because #NotYourShield is full of white sockpuppet accounts, and all those Facebook group members of pro-GG groups were just pretending to be women and minorities.
I shall await my ban.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Nice stuff from Intel 
Do you guys come onto GAF just looking to get banned so you can post about it on KIA?
Do you guys come onto GAF just looking to get banned so you can post about it on KIA?
tonysidaway
Member
I don't like it when somebody reposts an entire comment and adds "this", but I really do agree with this comment a lot.
Maybe they should campaign for abstinence.
Banananana
Neo Member
Nice stuff from Intel
Do you guys come onto GAF just looking to get banned so you can post about it on KIA?
I'm not looking to get banned.
I want to genuinely understand why some of you think GG is "anti-diversity" when many of its supporters are women and minorities.
I know how NeoGAF treats dissent though, so I might as well expect to get banned.
Least100Seraphs
Neo Member
The fight for a better journalism?
Maybe they should start with a fight for a better proofreader.
Maybe they should start with a fight for a better proofreader.
More_Badass
Member
"#gamergate is for diversity too" equals five months of GG outrage towards female journalists and developers, and disgustingly hateful comments on Twitter, KiA, and 8chan about transexuals, women, and other groups
Yes, they're all about diversity
Sure, there are women and transexuals and minorities that support GamerGate. No one's disputing that. But just because Gamergate may have support from a diverse range of people, it's their actions and comments that matter.
faceless007
Member
Look! Further proof that indie game devs are colluding with billion-dollar companies to bring about a New Feminazi World Order! You just admitted it! Because you personally know several people! That's collusion! Conspiracy! And other words I learned from pseudo-intellectual right-wing dumping grounds!
On a serious note, I hope GGers decide to boycott Intel over this so that they'll have to stop using anything with an Intel chip and inadvertently push themselves out of virtually the entire gaming and personal computing landscape and have to finally get a fucking life.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Because GGs figureheads have carefully made sure there are a layer of ignorant people between them that actually believe it is about ethics in journalism.
Also, you could read the first page.
faceless007
Member
That's a perfectly fair question. To beetter understand that, I highly recommend the fifth post in this thread.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Yes. The kind of people who make sockpuppets of non-white people are the same people who tried to incite a divide between white and non-white feminists by posing as white feminists and attacking non-white feminists.
GG makes sockpuppets. This is common sense.
Banananana
Neo Member
Ok let's try to reason this here.
Suppose that we agree that #NotYourShield supports GG and is indeed full of women and minorities.
If GG is about attacking female journalists and developers, this means minorities and women are also part of this attack.
Would it be fair then to say that they're attacking these female journalists and developers just because they are female? If so, what's their motive for doing this? Do the women who support GG simply want to attack their fellow females who are anti-GG because they prefer the status quo of alleged rampant misogyny in the world of gaming? That doesn't sound like it'll benefit them much.
I happen to not be a sockpuppet. I am an Asian male.
I assume then that you suggest that all the members of the pro-GG Facebook groups are also pretending to be minorities and women? All the thousands of them?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
GamerGate is about misinformation.
A few people got hate boners when Zoe Quinn's ex spoke out, and it just went on from there.
Let's not even get into the people that actually believe the inclusion of women are a negative ethical issue in games.
If some people actually believe it is about journalistic integrity, then they are ignorant.
It's worse if they acknowledge that GamerGate started as hate but somehow think that it has "changed".
How did it change?
When did it change?
A movement's message does not change based on the individual.
I can join the KKK and say that it is to save the last of the unicorns.
This is the better and only response.
A few people got hate boners when Zoe Quinn's ex spoke out, and it just went on from there.
Let's not even get into the people that actually believe the inclusion of women are a negative ethical issue in games.
If some people actually believe it is about journalistic integrity, then they are ignorant.
It's worse if they acknowledge that GamerGate started as hate but somehow think that it has "changed".
How did it change?
When did it change?
A movement's message does not change based on the individual.
I can join the KKK and say that it is to save the last of the unicorns.
This is the better and only response.
You cannot use the fact that a supporter might be female or might be a minority to actually demonstrate a movement is "pro diversity" or whatever nonsense you're trying to argue here.
Movements that typically have massive diversity problems love to trot out "token" shields for which they can utilize to say "see, even though all our aims have been shown to be massively against these groups, since we have some members of these groups among us, we can't be against them!"
Ironically, then, NotYourShield is precisely that ... a shield that Gamergate can use to prevent reasoned criticism of its movement, its stated goals, its operations and its members.
For example, the Tea Party movement is well over 80% white. 6% are Black. Its arguments and desired goals are often hugely anti-minority, anti-immigrant and racist chants and slogans are often the name of the day at rallies. And yet, whenever possible they trot out Lloyd Marcus, who is black, to say "well how can you say we're racist. I don't disagree with Obama because of the color of his skin, I disagree with him because of his policies."
The Republican party is often lamented for having policies that are massively damaging to the minority classes and for having members in extremely powerful positions that are openly racist. Now they love to point to Mia Love as evidence that their party is diversity and does not have inherent problems with diversity and policies for minorities. And yet, only 2% of Republicans are Black, and 5% are Hispanic.
A Link to the Past
Banned
With respect, regardless of your race, you'll have to do a little bit more than tell me your race when we're dealing with people who have a history of doing what they are accused of doing. Further, the presence of women, trans people, non-whites, homosexuals, etc. in a movement at no point demonstrates that the movement is not incredibly misogynistic, transphobic, racist, and homophobic. Let's not forget when Arthur Chu was held accountable for another person's comments by a swarm of GG supporters just because he was Asian.
Some women were against the suffrage movement and did not think women should have the right to vote.
Ergo, since some women were against the suffrage movement, that means the anti-suffrage movement could not possibly be against women!
And also, Banananana is quite familiar with the origins of Gamergate and in fact disingenuously tried to imply neoGAF wasn't being open minded in regards to the Zoe Quinn incident having nothing to do with gaming or ethics in games journalism and that all the accusations of that sort were complete fiction.
That isn't what was said. You don't have to be banned, but this is not a good way to start. Address the comments that people make, not the structure of some meta-opinion that you perceive. We are individuals here, not a gestalt.
Self-matyrdom is boring. "This is going to get me banned" is lame.
If you catch a ban it won't be because you disagree, it'll be because you pick a fight or spit some vitriol or create a less welcoming community.
Don't make yourself the story.
"Some women are on #notyourshield" is not evidence of GamerGate being "pro diversity", it's evidence of some women being wrong, some women being manipulated. Women can hate women too, or, less strongly, stand athwart the cause of progress for women. See Phyllis Schlafly.
If you catch a ban it won't be because you disagree, it'll be because you pick a fight or spit some vitriol or create a less welcoming community.
Don't make yourself the story.
"Some women are on #notyourshield" is not evidence of GamerGate being "pro diversity", it's evidence of some women being wrong, some women being manipulated. Women can hate women too, or, less strongly, stand athwart the cause of progress for women. See Phyllis Schlafly.
Milo Yiannopoulos (one of GG's biggest e-celeb (or whatever)) was at one point against gay marriage. He's gay and has argued that breaking the institution of marriage would harm society.
It's almost like they were being used as a shield against the true motivations of the anti- women's suffrage movement, isn't it?
It's called being a shield. NotYourShield was started with armies and armies of sockpuppet accounts in a ploy to trick uninformed people. There are legitimate supporters now, but those supporters have no idea how and why GamerGate actually formed. They're being misled because their opinions aren't needed. Just their presence as a shield toward criticism.
Yeah, but Milo knows someone at Intel who sides with GG, so clearly Intel doesn't believe this stuff. Milo would surely never lie to us.
Intel cannot, in fact, "believe" anything. Corporations don't have feelings or thoughts. As legal fictions they can, however, *express* values and attitudes.
More_Badass
Member
Put simply: we're not saying that GamerGate is nothing but white men pretending to be women and minorities. We're saying that GamerGate's actions and words are what matters. Just because there are women and minorities supporting them and GamerGate says it's "for diversity", the actions of those involved and their comments about women and minorities and transexuals and eugenics and even their weird obsession with something like different colored hair is all clear resounding evidence that GamerGate is very much against diversity
Hey, thanks. I've appreciated what you've had to say here enough to stalk your comments on the talk article a little, so the thumbs up feels good.
Yeah, and that's what's great about this. We can quantify the expression quite readily, it's a three hundred million dollar spend on values and attitudes. That's your reals before feels right there.
More_Badass
Member
And so it begins, courtesy of KiA:
Jawbreaker
Member
Looks like it was properly covered, but yeah, a movement or law having supporters who actively protest or vote against their own interests doesn't preclude it from being against the interests of said people. You have minorities for example, and I say this as a Hispanic male living in NYC so I'm familiar with it, who actively supported and wanted "stop and frisk" laws. Despite them being discriminatory, they were either ignorant of the facts and statistics, or simply had their own biases and even self-hatred. You can be a woman, black, Hispanic, gay, etc, and still harbor disdain towards others who share you gender, sex, and skin color among other things.
look out guys, we got a martyr here
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Basically, anyone that breaks rank is instantly shunned and labeled a shill.
Anyone still have Operation Volcano saved on their computer? It pretty much sums up GGs plan of attack. It's pretty revolting.
VibratingDonkey
Member
Oh Gamergate would've been hilarious if it wasn't for the whole soul crushing part of it.
You can support diversity and striving for higher quality games journalism/reporting without supporting gamergate.
More_Badass
Member
Come on, I put effort into that post and made sure it was grammatically correct and whatnot. Isn't it odd how these people never return once you start trying to have an actual discussion...
Almost as if they weren't looking to have a discussion...
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I can't wait for the thread on whatever part of Red.
Actually we should probably not bring him up in a discussion he's not involved in. He's catching too much crap for being as visible as he's been. Focus on individuals can't be benign in this context, that's the essence of why even just waving the #GG flag is a shitty thing to do, because doing that is what perpetuates this fucking nonsense.
i mean, he asked for examples of people who were faking being a minority in regards to the #notyourshield crap
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