A timeline of some of the shit that GG's done over the past couple of months would be really great, with links and everything. Tempted to try and at least compile a list of links showing this kind of stuff, but I am not the most effective at Googling.
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#GamerGate thread 2: it's about feminism in games journalism
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A timeline of some of the shit that GG's done over the past couple of months would be really great, with links and everything. Tempted to try and at least compile a list of links showing this kind of stuff, but I am not the most effective at Googling.
More_Badass
Member
Would it be easier to search through the thread? I'd say we've been pretty good at documenting most of the crazy shit. Also GamerGhazi is a good source too
Not that I know of
This is a good summary of the early stuff (before that video got tweeted by Baldwin).
Here is some TFYC nonsense from September.
I checked Anita's feed (she doesn't tweet that much making it much easier) and some of my bookmarks. I could have sworn I had the Jenn Frank storify, but I seem to have missed it. It was before October 9th, I remember it being quite recent when I learned how horrible GG's actions had been in early October.
October:
9. Brianna started getting attacked. (she is doxxed some days later, more details in Isometric episode 24)
14. Anita's talk was cancelled because of the shooting threat.
29. Anita was on The Colbert Report.
30. Arthur Chu wrote this.
November:
5. Mattie Brice is sarcastic, GG freaks out.
December:
4. Probably a little earlier, but a stalker tweets a picture of himself at Randi Harper's workplace. What happened the 4th was she contacted her lawyer.
30. srhbutts is doxxed.
I don't think it has any timeline, but Isometric episode 18 went over what had happened in GG up to then. It was September 8th and episode 24 in October 20th continued focusing on Brianna, but she also mention others who have been attacked. Tons of holes, but I hope it's better than nothing. I tried to make myself bookmark notable events, but ended up bookmarking mostly comments (fun or serious) instead of news.
Yell if anything is wrong.
Shrike_Priest
Member
I'd say no, Gamerghazi is not a good source. As much as I generally agree with their opinions of GG, they are pretty much the most biased anti-gg source you can find (insofar as anti-gg bias exists). Reddit-culture promotes shitty clickbait discourse and I think that kind of cheapens the content on there, while there are naturally good posts as well as bad ones, it can get a bit crazy. It's a place to go if you've made up your mind, not some place to send someone wanting to learn about GG.
As for proper sources, I got stuck on a_man_in_black's storify page, and it turns out that not only are his storifies good, but most contain links to other people's storifies which make for a very good over-sight. Naturally there is bias there too, but the stories I found were well written, and I think they highlight the GG behaviour very well, and does an excellent job at refuting their anti-harassment/doxxing talking points. If someone were to collect a timeline, I'd say that is a great place to start, organising mainly through chronology, but it could be done thematically too.
Not that I know of
This is a good summary of the early stuff (before that video got tweeted by Baldwin).
Here is some TFYC nonsense from September.
I checked Anita's feed (she doesn't tweet that much making it much easier) and some of my bookmarks. I could have sworn I had the Jenn Frank storify, but I seem to have missed it. It was before October 9th, I remember it being quite recent when I learned how horrible GG's actions had been in early October.
October:
9. Brianna started getting attacked. (she is doxxed some days later, more details in Isometric episode 24)
14. Anita's talk was cancelled because of the shooting threat.
29. Anita was on The Colbert Report.
30. Arthur Chu wrote this.
November:
5. Mattie Brice is sarcastic, GG freaks out.
December:
4. Probably a little earlier, but a stalker tweets a picture of himself at Randi Harper's workplace. What happened the 4th was she contacted her lawyer.
30. srhbutts is doxxed.
I don't think it has any timeline, but Isometric episode 18 went over what had happened in GG up to then. It was September 8th and episode 24 in October 20th continued focusing on Brianna, but she also mention others who have been attacked. Tons of holes, but I hope it's better than nothing. I tried to make myself bookmark notable events, but ended up bookmarking mostly comments (fun or serious) instead of news.
Yell if anything is wrong.
Don't forget the whole Randi Harper bit, as well as Mike Cernovich entering the fray, Felicia Day getting doxxed. The Bayonetta 2 review. The Gamer's Bill of Rights. Milo and the whole gamejournopro thing. The whole Patreon debacle. The 4chan ban. All the ops…
It'd be one hell of a challenge to get all this together. I'd love to have just a list of all their ops in chronological order.
Edit: ^^^^^^^My bad, gamergate -> randommush filter... It should have an on off button in situations like this (ruins my post everytime I press edit), but it is great for my sanity elsewhere.
Thanks for reminding me! I had read this on Ghazi (screengrab of moot saying why it got shut down).
Yeah, sucks that I remember all of those, but I don't have the timelines etc. They're not terribly hard to research though so we could eventually get something more complete.
Edit: Fixed links:
5. Mattie Brice is sarcastic, GG freaks out.
December:
30. srhbutts is doxxed.
If you see something like goutgrief or geniegroin in one of my URLs change it to gamergate. The filter will keep the capitalization the same.
Edit2: Forgot that my filter had changed the top mention...
Thanks for reminding me! I had read this on Ghazi (screengrab of moot saying why it got shut down).
Yeah, sucks that I remember all of those, but I don't have the timelines etc. They're not terribly hard to research though so we could eventually get something more complete.
Edit: Fixed links:
5. Mattie Brice is sarcastic, GG freaks out.
December:
30. srhbutts is doxxed.
If you see something like goutgrief or geniegroin in one of my URLs change it to gamergate. The filter will keep the capitalization the same.
Edit2: Forgot that my filter had changed the top mention...
tonysidaway
Member
I've followed this pretty closely but I think it's too easy to get bogged down in daily rubbish. Earlier timelines probably are of limited use for that reason. Nobody cares about the "five guys" stuff or the bickering over The Fine Young Capitalists any more, because it didn't turn out to be significant.
At Wikipedia the need to concentrate on reliable sources has meant we're not able to construct timelines of the "and then Internet Aristocrat said this and Twitter filled with crap again" kind. If pixiejenni's stream were still public I could probably use it to reconstruct something of that kind. Another approach would be to analyse the two Gamergate threads on NeoGAF and any other threads that may still have related material. The problem: Gamergaters say a lot of stuff online, people may comment on it, but in the end it has no broad effect, it just clutters up your timeline. Choosing Google News as a basis may exclude a lot of interesting stuff, but it's a good compromise between Wikipedia's standards and the "grab a heap of forum posts and catalogue them" approach.
Presently I'm working on an analysis of news items about Phil Fish in relation to Zoe Quinn (for my own editorial purposes on the encyclopaedia article), and you can see it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony_Sidaway/Fish
I'm up to September 3, and there are about 50 articles listed and summarised, and 25 more articles to add. Most are not reliable sources because I haven't got to that stage yet. You can already see that the earlier articles, and not just the less professional ones, play up the "Phil Fish, what a crazy guy" angle. But that evaporates over time as the enormity of the crimes against Fish and Quinn is assessed by journalists who don't just shrug and say "that's gamers/the internet for you, the rascals", though there's still some of that around. By the time I get to November and December you'll probably begin to see conservative sources enter the timeline and add their own spin. I wonder how they wrote about Fish. Edit: I've hacked away at it for the past few hours and consider it finished for the time being because I've added all the sources I had.
While my collection of material is extremely focused on just one incident and how the way it's been reported has evolved, similar techniques could be used to reconstruct a more general timeline.
Unfortunately the "rubbish" tends to be the "juicier" portions of this whole debacle. That's probably why we still have gossip magazines.
I at least want to gather enough information to properly showcase any of my friends who are less involved in this than I am to understand the shittiness of the whole thing. I'll probably comb through this thread, figure out any particular links or stories that might be interesting, I dunno.
Yeah, I agree a lot of the stuff isn't terribly important. I think the start of it is important though because to me it shows that this has never been about ethics.
Pixijenni's wordpress is still up, but I think it's been unchanged for months.
Shrike_Priest
Member
If that's your purpose, post 5 and two or three a_man_in_black-storifies (or ones he's referred to) should suffice.
One thing I got out of Tye the Czar's posts was that debunking manual. Had some really valid points, and one of them was that over-loading on evidence is likely to cause a backfire effect if someone's been misinformed from the start. So keeping it as simple as possible. Check the guide for more tips.
tonysidaway
Member
In addition to A_man_in_black's Storify articles, I highly recommend this piece written by David Hill:
https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13fftyjopfahdvz504cdldh0zr1j52o12w
It's one of the few essays on the topic that made it into Wikipedia (by way of Vox.com, after their correspondent Todd VanDerWerff quoted part of it and recommended it).
Speaking of Google+, Googler Yonatan Zunger made this statement, which I also happen to think is worth reading:
https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z12qhf4jmtzjg3ou4233gdehdkrqinlb304
tonysidaway
Member
Hey, I just noticed we finally seem to have got over the bikini armour stuff and we're back on topic. Congratulations, friends, I knew we could make it!
tonysidaway
Member
It just occurred to me that's part of the reason we still have this thread, too.
Ah, I love these quieter times when, with a few frightening exceptions like the Grace Lynn swatting, each day Gamergate seems more and more a thing of the past. But I suppose it's okay to feel a bit nostalgic for the days when there was such a strong incentive to get the word out about this toxic hashtag. It was horrible and I'm glad it's over, but it was sometimes thrilling. I suppose that's why we didn't all collectively curl up and pull the duvet over our heads and hope it would just go away.
Does that mean the good guys have won again? I think we do tend to, in the long run. Ignorance and fear don't stand a chance.
I'm a bit more pessimistic about it, mainly because even in its death throes it's still doing pretty nasty damage in the form of these doxxes and intense harassment. While the whole thing has been morbidly fascinating, I think that being "nostalgic" and "thrilling" are not things that should be describing these events, especially for those who were most affected by this.
With a more mainstream figurehead like TB, it's going to pop up every now and then to remind everyone how fucking shitty it all is.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
So, Kluwe and Cerno are going at it on Twitter again. At least Kluwe is. He's going off about something Cerno did.
kingdoug87
Member
Wait, I thought this thread was about GamerGate not about people insulting each other over twitter.
Alcoremortis
Member
There's a difference?
kingdoug87
Member
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
#GG is swatting Sarah's family right now because #GG is terrible at life.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
https://twitter.com/srhbutts/status/552359402460962816
It sounds like she'll be fine, but these people are fucking morons:
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Why would you SWAT their family?
I mean, that's pretty fucking dumb. You can say "she's making it up" if it's an individual. But an entire family?
GoodCoffeeJoey
Banned
Has this juicebro takedown been posted here yet? It's pretty great.
https://medium.com/@ManfredVonKarma/mike-cernovich-based-lawyer-of-gamergate-419d0617f259
https://medium.com/@ManfredVonKarma/mike-cernovich-based-lawyer-of-gamergate-419d0617f259
More_Badass
Member
This was a very informative read
But holy shit, what a fucking asshole
Not to derail into the whole Gjoni stuff, but I never realized he had been so involved in GamerGate. I had thought he just posted that article and that was it. What a jerk.
I've honestly been a little worried about this for the past week. I love AGDQ and I really don't want to see it get derailed.
But TB just couldn't help himself, just had to reference it in his comment.
aspiegamer
Member
You know what would be an awesome source of a collection of notable incidents in all this drama? The #GG wiki! Just need to modify it with actual news sources so that it reflects reality.
Just let the Wikipedia article speak for itself as well as archived forum threads from here. It's not worth the energy trying to explain all this to any one any more. Even the "related" stuff that's happening now like the recent swatting crap is barely attached to #GG. Most of the happenings now are 8chan-related, which is one reason among many others why #GG can be shipped out to off-topic when this thread concludes.
Just let the Wikipedia article speak for itself as well as archived forum threads from here. It's not worth the energy trying to explain all this to any one any more. Even the "related" stuff that's happening now like the recent swatting crap is barely attached to #GG. Most of the happenings now are 8chan-related, which is one reason among many others why #GG can be shipped out to off-topic when this thread concludes.
A few months ago he said he lost his job (paraphrasing) "because he was too busy arguing on the internet". Also something about people dying because he was fired? I wish I was kidding. This is some creepy stalker-type stuff.
I'm honestly surprised you didn't, he went far and beyond to really wreck shit. He revised and revised the original post, sharing it with his friends, and (though this might be apocryphal) even his mother. It's partially why I want to go back and gather the links to properly showcase the pure shit from all of this, even if it is kind of fueling the schadenfreude.
I've just soured against him after all of the BS he's been throwing. IT's a shame because his content is good, but my oh my the person behind it. I just couldn't take it anymore.
More_Badass
Member
I knew about the whole "Being fired/resigning because of his online obsession", but I wasn't aware he had been directing and spurring things behind the scene like that screenshot from the article showed. It's already fucked enough to try to ruin someone's life, but to loudly play victim with that post and then be directing and assisting and molding it all behind the scenes like that is just...ugh, what an asshole
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I honestly didn't think of the "Spew Bullshit To Get It On Google" angle before.
That's bullshit in two directions:
a) anyone with half a brain will do further research and find that the event in question NEVER HAPPENED.
b) Cernovich actually thinks this is a perfectly reasonable response.
Michael Cernovich is fucking mental. As in neurological condition.
Normally adjusted people do not act like this.
He's got problems and I hope he seeks help. But he won't, which is sad.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Yep, it's actually how he got that restraining order filed against him.
.. On that note, the restraining order is probably the big reason his enormous role might not be as clear, he was literally legally forced out of participation in gamergate due to how obviously bad/stalker-ish his behavior was early on;
So he's not really turned into a figurehead like most of the other pro-GG names.
kanamechan
Member
I think the exact opposite. He is perfectly adjusted, perfectly knows what he's doing, and does it anyway, because it gives him a feeling of power over others. He figured out that this way lets him get away with things he couldn't before, so he keeps doing it.
And it works. It sure got him an adoring crowd of fans, didn't it?
And even his peers don't usually mock or condemn him. Why, he has used his tactics for their purposes before and is even called a friend by other lawyers, isn't he? I don't think that one needs to excuse him with neurological conditions when his behavior can be perfectly rationalized if one simply assumes that he's an awful person, a pretty typical bully.
Shrike_Priest
Member
What I don't get is how someone that calculating, and obviously competent at what he does, got so utterly destroyed by Chris Kluwe. He definitely does not come off as smart there. On the other hand he managed to spin the aftermath into him being the respectful part while Kluwe was the ass, so there's that. Dude should work in corporate PR damage control.
kanamechan
Member
It's easy to sound smart and competent when you have all the time in the world to formulate a plan beforehand and then act it out.
The issue is when you have to do the same thing in real time, without the ability to just pause, go away and punch a pillow, while the other person is watching you - and you them. It's also much harder to be a colossal douchebag towards people you're seeing right now.
I'd say that the internet is giving him the distance needed to do that, and the confidence as well.
The issue is when you have to do the same thing in real time, without the ability to just pause, go away and punch a pillow, while the other person is watching you - and you them. It's also much harder to be a colossal douchebag towards people you're seeing right now.
I'd say that the internet is giving him the distance needed to do that, and the confidence as well.
tonysidaway
Member
I found Kluwe's initial intervention all those months ago hilarious, but I don't think "debates" and whatnot help. In politics, when one of the parties asks for a debate we know they're the underdog, and when the other party accepts we know that the other party has made a tactical error.
Debates are risky, you don't indulge them unless you're losing. Kluwe was already winning by virtue of being opposed by a gaggle of idiots.
Debates are risky, you don't indulge them unless you're losing. Kluwe was already winning by virtue of being opposed by a gaggle of idiots.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Put me in the camp that has him as smart. All the over-the-top rhetoric just gets him attention, which is the goal.
chaobreaker
Member
You know, standing back and watching this whole movement and everything that led to it, you have to wonder: Why are there so many anti-progressive gamers?
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
I'm almost sure the actual "gamers" involved aren't anti-progressive as much as just plain dumb, young or ignorant as fuck. Pretty much all mouthpieces of GG I heard of so far aren't gamers or anywhere close to games, especially the ones that "formed" what it is today - a semi-neonazi, misogynist, pedophile haven on 8chan that didn't do one single thing to actually improve "ethics in videogame journalism" fucking once. I strongly believe a huge part of gaters doesn't know shit about any of this and actually thinks the whole thing is about games somehow, 'cause they just don't give a damn about reading up on it.
idk man
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Games give the player agency over nearly everything in their environment and many games provide a "do everything yourself" world. I think for people that really do nothing other than play games and don't experience the real world so much (maybe outside of a school environment) this may make libertarian ideas much more appealing; these ideas won't seem so impractical to someone who is always experiencing a workable environment of "I'll do it all myself."
That's kind of an oversimplification of libertarianism but in large part it's about relying on selfishness and self action over empathy and collective action.
I actually think this is one of the reasons I was into libertarian stuff in my high school / university days.
Personally I think it's a really complicated subject but that it's mostly due to Internet culture not "gamer" culture. The fact is awful world views like those held by milo, thunderfoot, etc would be called out for being shitty and offensive in real life but on the Internet they attract that vocal minority of shitty individuals. Couple this with gaming and the Internet both growing as cultures and there happens to be a lot of over lap.
Gaming it self isn't really anti-progressive (though it could be a lot better and this has shown it clearly should be a lot better) but "gamers" we're historically a belittled small community of "geeks" and "nerds". This however has made many gamers defensive over the idea of gaming which is why Gamergate tries to make someone like Anita appear as the outsider, they believe it's that same form of bullying that hasn't been very present since the 1990s, when in actuality it is the medium growing up.
kanamechan
Member
It doesn't help that a lot of people kept pretending that nerds are still really oppressed for being nerds, when in reality, "nerdy" stuff is mainstream now.
I heard about the calling the hotel part, but I never thought it was him that was doing that.That is really creepy.He seemed to obsess over zoe a bit on twitter early on in gamergate also.
Shrike_Priest
Member
Yeah, that debate added nothing to the debate so to speak. It was fun to watch, but it was essentially just entertainment. No one was swayed in any way by it, it only went to further confirm your original stance, regardless of which one you had. "Anyone can say anything."
Oh and nerds are totally oppressed today. Napoleon Dynamite didn't change shit. Scifi might be popular, videogames too, but nerds are never cool. That's why so many got so angry at Leigh Alexander's piece, because it echoed the scorn they'd faced growing up/are facing now. Gaming has been an area where the nerds just kind of reigned. If you don't excel at sports or school you can excel at Dark Souls 2 and win respect. When someone challenges that field, and thereby that respect, you get pissed. It's an oversimplification, but I definitely think the underdog nature of nerd-culture is definitely a part of this.
Hell, I get shit from my slightly older co-workers for being a gamer. It's still seen as an "immature" hobby by large parts of society. And looking around at high-school classes, you have the FIFA/COD-mainstream crew which are totally accepted, but the "Dark Souls-dudes" and gamer girls are clearly not the highest ranking groups.
Edit: realize that I'm using DS2/FIFA/COD as metaphors, I'm not specifically talking about just those games.
The article points out something very important: Mike Cernovich is basically nuking his reputation by acting so ineffectually assholish on Twitter.
I have the feeling a lot of GamerGate supporters are in for a rude awakening when their history affects their employment opportunities.
stump sock
Member
if there's one thing that article points out very well, it's that an awful lot of people who support GG seem obsessed with either doing or defending pretty awful things that go right up to the bleeding edge of the law without actually going over
the area between "being within the law" and "being a fucking asshole" is not a line.
endless dave
Member
"Oppressed" is a very, very strong word to talk about how people whose tastes don't fall in line with more mainstream forms of entertainment are viewed. I also think it's difficult to talk about how gamers and nerds of all sorts are bullied, compared to what minorities and other persecuted classes endure.
Nerds and geeks are harassed (most often times unduly) for responding to that derision in an over the top manner. Because being a geek is about obsession, right? Like if Shrike_Priest responded to his coworkers poking fun at him about playing games by blowing up at them and huffing about how games are art, yeah, he'd be made fun of. but not specifically for being a gamer. it'd be for not understanding social cues (which is a changeable habit, mind you)
Nerds and geeks are harassed (most often times unduly) for responding to that derision in an over the top manner. Because being a geek is about obsession, right? Like if Shrike_Priest responded to his coworkers poking fun at him about playing games by blowing up at them and huffing about how games are art, yeah, he'd be made fun of. but not specifically for being a gamer. it'd be for not understanding social cues (which is a changeable habit, mind you)
kanamechan
Member
It only did if one is a gamer that actively harasses others - because she was saying that actual gamers are more than that.
I genuinely fail how one can take that article as anything but a POSITIVE description of gamers. Celebratory, even.
Shrike_Priest
Member
People's reading comprehension isn't the best. The opening paragraphs of it are a lightning rod any easily offended self proclaimed nerd/gamer who finds value in "videogame culture". The fact that the entire point of the article is that "today a gamer is so much more than that stereotype" doesn't negate the fact that the sub-group of gamers that fit that stereotype, the ones who did line-up, who did wear gaming merch, who did have promo posters all over their rooms, etc. got offended. Now, technically the offended group were a sub-group of that group, since many who fit the stereotype were still "yeah, I get her point".
It's celebratory of the entire gaming community as a whole, but it heavily criticized gamergate, and used a stereotypical description of what Alexander thought gamergaters were like. I'm convinced that a lot of the "moderates" got involved right about then, because they fit the stereotype. It had little to do with women and more to do with them feeling their hobby/life choices were being attacked. The fact that it was a woman just made it all the more easy for hardcore gamergaters to exploit the whole anti-feminist/SJW-narrative.
To be perfectly clear: I agree 100% with the point she made, but I really do believe some comments made in the article drove people into gamergate. The whole "the said gamers were dead"-meme kinda goes to show the indignation they felt and how the actual message of the text was lost on them.
Yeah, I agree that "oppressed" is probably not the right word. That kind of does equate it to oppression due intrinsic characteristics, and that wasn't my point. However, I think your example is kind of illustrative. If someone were to argue videogames are art to a non-gamer, they'd likely be ridiculed. Because society as a whole does not consider that a valid viewpoint. And that ridicule is what people feel. They still get that feeling of not being validated. Now, it's definitely a habit you've chosen, but the feeling of not being taken seriously/belittled by society is probably very real. To go "but minorities have it worse" means you run the risk of missing an important aspect into why this behavior occurs. Thing is, you don't have to compare. You don't have to rank race vs sub-culture or something like that to acknowledge that dimension of it.
I still stand by the notion that there's a clear hierarchy among kids (and adults to a lesser) where you've got pretty much the classic jock vs nerd-divide. Nerds are characterized as fat/skinny, pimply, basement dwelling, lacking social ability etc. and are definitely lower in rank. But it's intersectional so this is obviously a very simplified version.
A distinction needs to be made between social awkwardness and playing video games as a hobby. Plenty of socially confident people play a lot of video games, and plenty of socially awkward ones don't. People tend to be bullied for social awkwardness rather than for their hobbies. I was bullied as a young child, and my tormentors did it because I wasn't the type of person who couldn't talk back to them confidently.
My younger brother plays tons of video games like Dark Souls. He's also possesses an absurdly confident and garrulous personality and always speaks his mind, so he never suffered much bullying (and for that I'm glad).
I don't doubt people are bullied for their hobbies, but I think personality still has much to do with it.
My younger brother plays tons of video games like Dark Souls. He's also possesses an absurdly confident and garrulous personality and always speaks his mind, so he never suffered much bullying (and for that I'm glad).
I don't doubt people are bullied for their hobbies, but I think personality still has much to do with it.
That just seems ironic to me that they would get so offended by the tone to completely miss the point of it and then rile each other up on social media to the point that they're demanding people get fired and to justify harassment. Because that's the kind of attitude a lot of them use as an example of so-called Social Justice Warriors.
Feeling like an outcast because they play video games has to be the definition of a first world problem. There's more of a social stigma attached to any number of other hobbies, from watching MMA or putting together miniature train sets together in your basement. Those kids have to realize that if someone thinks your weird for how you spend your free time, you probably think what they do in theirs is just as weird and learn to get the fuck over it.
My co-workers don't play video games. But they do come to me when they want to know if a game is appropriate for their kids, system recommendations and so on.
tonysidaway
Member
It's worse than that, if you think respect for gaming is a good thing. You can be the world's greatest Dark Souls 2 player, and nobody except a few other nerds will ever care. Most people are cool with that, because games are, you know, games. The crackpots who take it seriously are the ones Leigh Alexander was aiming at, precisely because they're really harming other people through their irresponsible behaviour.
Geeks do get a lot of respect for what they do. Two recent British films that are getting favourable attention from the critics are called The Imitation Game and The Theory of Everything. The names are chosen for their relevance to each man's life work. Both were or are mathematics geeks, both are people who have changed the way we think the world works. Both are household names, decades after they did their major work. So don't say geeks get no respect outside gaming, or nonsense like that. Geeks are highly respected.
People who think they get no respect because they're gamers may not actually be doing anything worthy of very much respect. The ability to waggle a joystick for hours isn't that much. It isn't what geeks are about.
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