guggnichso
Banned
Maybe you should talk to the poster in that thread over there if you don't agree with their opinion?
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#GamerGate thread 2: it's about feminism in games journalism
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Maybe you should talk to the poster in that thread over there if you don't agree with their opinion?
Yeah, you're right, it's shitty to do this sort of thing.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Well yeah, I was just being hilarious.
sensui-tomo
Member
Let me elaborate on my side of that post, I dont find sexy = bad at all, which was what that response was about (since some guy posted that girl from Tales of Xillia who has a outfit which i would only see cosplayers wear.) since he called it a porno(not the guy quoted underneath me) I was posting in a sarcastic way that it seems like people are shunning those who openly say they are okay for liking Sexy/revealing outfits for game characters regardless of context (someone in that thread later brought up that loli issue which is another bag of worms i'm not giving the day of light to bother with) I feel people have every right to say "I dont like X design because its stupid" because hell i'd agree with them, for the context of most outfits it wont make sense why they wear them, hell i'd like it if more games did what ni no kuni/ kingdom hearts do by switching outfits for different regions so it'd make more sense for clothing, like maybe in a hot beach area it'd make sense to wear a bikini or whatever revealing outfit they want. But its another thing to degrade/shame people for liking something revealing, or calling them a 14 year old(aka that one bad jason schrier article) People can argue about bad designs all they want, but its another thing to resort to shaming people for liking sexy stuff (except with children which goes with that loli thing that someone mentioned in that thread.. aka 1000 year old with the body of a 7 year old but again i wont persecute a person for that) Sorry since this is very poorly put together and not structured correctly, hopefully I don't offend anyone with this since i felt i needed to defend my post as it was brought up here.
I wasn't criticizing your post, I was criticizing the person who quoted you.
However, posting that quote here was mean-spirited gossip about a fellow poster. Unlike posting stuff from reddit or 8chan, it's showing little respect to my peers who I expect respect from. It was a mistake and I'm sorry for it.
sensui-tomo
Member
Okay, my bad, since it wasnt clear whom you were quoting. And its a simple mistake(for me thinking you may have been referencing me) as well so no harm done from my point of view.
This stuck out like a sore thumb...hilarious. Why didnt the media report on something that couldnt be confirmed and later shown to be false?
Alex_Mexico
Member
QuantumZebra
Member
I heard Minnie just got doxxed on twitter... they're out for her ethics
sensui-tomo
Member
Man! Paragraphs are your friend! You made me squint too much
Yeah, english was never my strong suit in school. But since its not needed(as it wasnt the subject of the quote) I may as well have it deleted(not sure how that works)
stump sock
Member
man that one guy is having a full-blown meltdown
and re: that armor thread, I don't know why I'm continuously surprised that discussions about sex/sexuality on GAF inevitably turn into complete shitshows
sensui-tomo
Member
From what i've seen its usually this trend. 1 poster doesnt like the design and posts in a great and descriptive way of disliking the design. Poster 2 likes it and defends his reasoning of liking it. few more posters and then we get the whole "sex appeal/ This design is bad and you should feel bad for liking it " and it derails into that discussion with no one being reasonable or people resorting to name calling or shaming. Would be nice to actually have a thread discussion about "Fan service and you" without it resorting to "Creepers, perverts, you should feel ashamed or LOL Japan" but that wont happen anytime soon. Hopefully no one doxxes pen ward for his views (if its one thing i hate about this whole GG thing its that)
aspiegamer
Member
The unfortunate thing is that there's just barely enough that keeps going on with this week-over-week that's at least a little tied to gaming that it'll exist indefinitely. In cases like that almost better to have a catch-all instead of new threads coming up whenever an actually substantive incident comes up. Mind you it'd be great if that never ever happened but we'd be insane to just think there'll never be any news mentioning #GG ever again (both related to gaming and not).
My opinion is to put it into off-topic or maybe even off-topic community. In community it would largely avoid sniping and other drive-by tactics that cause most of the disruptions and derails.
Tye The Czar
Member
Nice idea. We should use this to take them down.
We're better off spending more time discussing strategies to take down the crooks and converting the reasonable folk than complaining about their latest crimes or whines.
I don't know, that goes beyond discussing and into vigilantism, and frankly there's a point where justifying similar behavior is just sinking to their level. Exposing their shit, supporting the victims and reporting to the proper authorities when laws are broken is all that really can be done.
Yeah. Out people only if they do illegal stuff and those are sadly hidden.
Edit: If a friend is then sure, tell some of your common friends, but don't go hunting them. That's basically what started this.
I'm hoping this was a joke tweet.
https://archive.today/IY1MU
https://archive.today/IY1MU
kingdoug87
Member
4th reply is a confession of him not being serious so it's totally ok.. you asshole
totes not serious. LOLZ etc etc.
It's still amazing how people react. How fucking seriously they take "the cause".
Nerd fights used to be two dorks having a heated argument in the local comic shop.
The internet has had the steroids effect on nerd fights.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
"I'm not being serious" is what he replies with when anyone calls him out.
Hey.
He went to GDC
He knows what he is talking about.
He's heard people say things. (Not sure if this sentence ruined the joke)
Just had a "pleasent" experience with a gger. Apparently if you correct someone online about your gender then you are looking to be treated differently because YOU bought up your gender.
Also something about people deserving no respect other than the assumption they are human.
Also why are almost all pro-GG Twitter accounts just GG posts and anti-feminism post. It's like they are not people but pure Gamergate incarnate
Also something about people deserving no respect other than the assumption they are human.
Also why are almost all pro-GG Twitter accounts just GG posts and anti-feminism post. It's like they are not people but pure Gamergate incarnate
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
My friend got that before. The guy corrected her, saying she was a guy, because why else would she know anything about video games (maybe he was calling her trans?).
The kicker? The coveted knowledge was Mario's name.
(He wasn't GG, or at least didn't say it; this was SDCC this year)
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
dp
tonysidaway
Member
Some of those guys are a menace to society. Don't be taken in by their size.
Spaced | Menace to Society | Channel 4: http://youtu.be/hUkCJDkG3fg
i like when Anita posted that tweet from a GGer saying that Chell wasn't in Portal 2 and Anita was like "lol fake gamers"
tonysidaway
Member
I think that's an imageboard thing. There are some damaged minds who think like this:
http://1d4chan.org/images/1/16/Titsorgtfo.png
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
It's a classic tactic, to deflect by saying you are actually the one saying something or bringing something up. It's ridiculous because sometimes the instigating post is on the very same page.
kingdoug87
Member
I feel bad for those targeted but I also feel bad for the police involved.
Can you imagine working yourself up to go to someone's house you legitimately believe is not safe and the thought that your actions could result in loss of life for others involved and even your own life... to find out it was the result of a prank. This could have some serious repercussions to the officer's state of mind and this is a fucking joke to people.
I've seen a bunch of those Twitter accounts.
These people spend hours, and hours, and hours tweeting about #GG. Every. Day.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
#GG hates PixelGoth for being a trans woman and for "betraying the cause" (since she used to be in favor of #GG and now is strongly against) and they thought last night was the "best" time to attack her since they thought she was having suicidal thoughts.
Their attack on her has been building for a while...
If you'll permit me to say a quick word on the subject, the basic summation of my thoughts is this; there's nothing inherently wrong with having skimpy outfits or having stereotypically "attractive" gear. The main problem, for me, is that it is often the only, or at least the majority, portrayal that women get in games, or really any media. Basically, individually it's okay, but it becomes an issue in the broader cultural perspective. People often take these sorts of discussions too personally and miss the overarching issues that I think most people know but don't quite know how to acknoledge.
Also, yes, Pen Ward is a pretty cool dude. I met him at a panel once, really awesome dude.
False flag. Not from GG. Third party trolls. Swatting unrelated to GG. Not gonna say swatting threats were legitimate because she's still breathing.
#NotAll8Channers. Falseflrg. Thdrtdparht truls. SWJsdidt it. Bluhbluh. Freeze Peach.
Just going through the motions here.
And now they go after journalists for reporting on them. There's no debate to be had, and there probably never was. Gamergate is terrorism, and all the stuff about SJWs taking over media or ethics or whatever is only a smokescreen designed to justify itself. There's nothing but hate, and the only thing to take seriously is how this industry did not do shit to condemn it or protect its own, and how big online players like Twitter or Patreon enabled them through inaction.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Oh my God, that GGer is having the biggest fucking meltdown.
"Americans steal, blacks kill."
"We'd all lose our jobs if we organized."
"Like feminism? Atheism? Marxism?"
Even go as far as to ask one of the users if they are a communist.
A communist.
Goodnight, GAF.
kanamechan
Member
100% agreement. I am very critical of these outfits, and I absolutely hate some of it, but my wish isn't for them to be gone or whatever (I really don't care what others like in their free time), I would just like alternatives. And it'd help if it wouldn't get pushed into some of the few canons I was enjoying that didn't have them before, such as Zero Suit Samus/OtherM.
Which shouldn't be this evil thoughtcrime...
(And tbh, the argument that all this representation is a new SJW invasion is bollocks by fake gamer boys. I could play a hobbit bard with gender 'Other' in one of the Ultimas. That was around 1990, 25(! - a number so high I originally put in 15 here because 25 seemed ridiculous) years ago. Over time, games allowed less and less diversity. So if anything, the invasion is from fake gamer dudebros
Dragon Age is simply getting to a state we were at long ago)
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Don't forget the somewhat less diplomatic "Bitch had it coming"
I dunno guys, I've been thinking very hard about this whole GamerGate thing and I think it might not be the greatest movement in the history if mankind after all. Who knew?
100% agreement. I am very critical of these outfits, and I absolutely hate some of it, but my wish isn't for them to be gone or whatever (I really don't care what others like in their free time), I would just like alternatives. And it'd help if it wouldn't get pushed into some of the few canons I was enjoying that didn't have them before, such as Zero Suit Samus/OtherM.
Which shouldn't be this evil thoughtcrime...
(And tbh, the argument that all this representation is a new skeleton invasion is bollocks by fake gamer boys. I could play a hobbit bard with gender 'Other' in one of the Ultimas. That was around 1990, 25(! - a number so high I originally put in 15 here because 25 seemed ridiculous) years ago. Over time, games allowed less and less diversity. So if anything, the invasion is from fake gamer dudebros
Dragon Age is simply getting to a state we were at long ago)
As I said in the FF bikini armor thread:
Fucking design two outfits for your characters. Seriously, don't tell me it would be "tooo difficult and expensive". If you want your stupid chainmail bikini go ahead but at least give people an option to dress like a normal human being.
Shrike_Priest
Member
Tangentially:
4. Don't link us to some idiot on twitter you're arguing with or otherwise try to get GAF to support you offsite.
Strategies, ops, whatever. It's sinking to their level. They're dying a slow (far too slow) horrible death. Their actions continue to push anyone with half a brain, the ones who are there are not going to be convinced. Not by legal repercussions, not by reasoned discussion. What we can do is shine a light on it, be reasonable and hopefully be a resource for anyone who might be interested in learning about gamergate.
If it's the case of an obvious act of harassment you come across, or something directly illegal, and there's a report function in whatever context you're in, fine, definitely report. However, strategizing, co-ordinating in order to attack/win and whatnot, that's not who the rest of us are. That's who they are.
Anyone who comes in here, with an open mind, will see first hand what kinds of things GG does. Us complaining and analyzing what it is they do, how they do it, why etc. is going to provide a good base for whomever is actually interested and not already made up.
As for the whole armor-thing, I wrote a post that was totally ignored which summed up my feelings about the Mevius controversy. The problem with that is that people (not all) are shitting on the design not because it's sexualized, but because it's feminine. The same way Vaan got flack for being feminine (or any Nomura dude). It's not about people being hypocritical about who gets to be sexualized, it's not a parallel to "look what happens when a dude wears as revealing armor as women characters do", it's about the way in which characters are sexualized. But as far as I saw before I bailed on the thread, that point of view was far from the centre of discussion.
Threads like those invariably derail into "men too"-territory. And even when that's correct (SolidSnakeX made a good case for Gladiolus being a male version of Cindy), it's still mostly beside the point. Equal opportunity sexualization and objectification might on some level be "better" than one sided objectification, but it doesn't change the fact that Cindy's design is fanservice. If one believes objectification to be a problem, then it doesn't matter if men and women alike are objectified, two wrongs don't make a right. But that's usually the line of argument.
And the critique for the Mevius-design is problematic because it really is kind of an ugly design. Some critique is purely aesthetic, but some is clearly sexist. That makes the whole discussion even further muddled.
plagiarize
Banned
A thought on this...
Objectification of a minority of fictional female video game characters wouldn't be much of a problem. In the real world there are women and men who like to present themselves in that way.
The problem is the over representation of such character types. It's the skinny model issue. The problem isn't sexy female armour, it's the complete lack of sensible female armour.
Where objectification really hurts is when it gives young girls the impression that that is how they *should* be, and that can't happen when they are also offered a wide range of other female roles to potentially associate with.
Again, skinny models are only a problem when they are drastically over represented. The problem isn't how easy it is to find boob plates and bikini armour in games. The problem is how hard it is to find realistic armour. Yes, there are examples, but they're a minority, which is absurd.
Unrealistic depictions of things are totally harmless when realistic depictions of things make up the majority of depictions.
This is getting (more) ridiculous. They're trying to silence anyone who talks about them.
And then try to seriously convince people "It wasn't me."
Neoriceisgood
Member
Shouldn't the armor discussion be in the armor thread?
It feels extremely off-topic aside from a tangental relation, unless I'm missing something.
It feels extremely off-topic aside from a tangental relation, unless I'm missing something.
I hope the journalist affected by this is doing okay. I can't believe they using more and more terrorist tactics against there opponents now.I hope some of the people that participated in all the doxxing and swatting in the last couple of days gets arrested one day.
Shrike_Priest
Member
You're right. I was just frustrated with the discussion over there and wanted to latch onto the discussion here as I figured it'd be more constructive. That said, you're totally right. Will drop it.
It's such a massive multidimensional clusterfudge of insanity that it's hard to collate it easily. The fifth post of this thread is a great primer (once again, if that could be bumped to the OT that'd be great), but that only covers the first months/weeks.
This thread might be the be biggest single repository of all things GG I've come across (aside from actually going to 8chan/KiA and wading through the content there). So… 361 pages to go for, you guess.
On a sidenote: a_man_in_black revealed his true identity, which was Jay Allen. Anyone actually know who that is? I did some googling but didn't really find anything (seems to be a common name).
Essh...Sullentrop did not do great here.
Still though, truly surprised ESPN decided to pick this up, especially after how dismissive they generally are over all things game-not-sport related they tend to be.
I was afraid you'd say that.
Shrike_Priest
Member
I'd really love it if someone came up with a nice timeline type link if there is one. But to the best of my knowledge, that's not available.
However, I just realized the wikipedia entry is probably your best bet. It does kinda favor the meta-story (as in referencing journalists writing about gamergate, rather than referencing directly to 8chan/twitter/KiA), so misses some points (mostly examples of gamergate-behaviour, their modus operandi, talking points etc.). But last time I checked it was pretty spot on in terms of what the overall picture is. Even if it's not necessarily in a timeline format.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy
Edit2: I'd say a_man_in_black's storify's are also a great resource, dude's analysis is usually top notch (can't vouch for all of them, tho, since I've only read the ones posted here). https://storify.com/a_man_in_black
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