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#GamerGate thread 2: it's about feminism in games journalism

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HP_Wuvcraft

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Apr 18, 2011
33,528
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Seriously. If your cheevos, trophies, or Steam badges are your most prized personal accomplishments, you need a fucking reality check.

I was a total geek in high school, and I was picked on for liking video games, but I had a whole lot more to myself than that.
Don't tempt me to bust out a link to I Am A Gamer.

Because it hurts my soul every time I do.
 

call_kotaku

Member
Nov 27, 2012
6,567
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Gamergate hasn't soured me on videogames or the videogame community, it's only depressing for me because these traditionally bigoted and conservative ideologies and tropes are obviously just as ingrained in this generation as they were in previous ones. I subconsciously believed that better access to information and having large public forums of discussion would change that, but obviously these ideas are potent and lingering for a reason, and people would use the same justifications for hateful behavior. Same thing with the Ferguson/NY stuff, too.

Still, I think there's a greater variety of games than ever before, and despite the big missteps from AAA devs this year I think there have been plenty of games of standout quality. In the past I've been very critical of Anita's (and other's) critiques but this whole thing really showed me that the discussion isn't going to be about specific points of criticism, but whether or not we are allowed to have that discussion in the first place. Once this gamergate stuff is over (if it's over, I guess), it might finally be possible to actually talk about ideas instead of running the same identity politics routine.
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Aug 5, 2013
16,801
2
535
The Zoo
I've seen people throw the "We've already made Gawker loose at least a million bucks!" thing around everywhere, is there actually any truth to that?
 

mo60

Member
Jun 2, 2013
6,142
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Is there any specific reason why we'd hope the odds of arrests are higher in this case than any other? Sorry to be a downer, but the backend awful of swatting is being practically impossible to prosecute.

I made the mistake of actually clicking the link the reporter put on 8chan's involvement. Wow. First, kudos to the guy for actually digging through that. A daily beat/police blotter local newspaper writer deserves an award for something like that.

On the 8chan board listing, its tags are "raid dox random old-fag hate". So doxxing is officially permitted on 8chan now? I mean, it's been "banned" from the start but that never stopped a lack of enforcement before, but a public tag for it? Seriously? Thanks, internet! Today I learned about one of the most godforsaken and horrifying corners of your being that I didn't previously know about!

Speaking of the forum directory there, on a posts-per-hour basis #GG is now the 8th most active board. Even 8chan has vastly outgrown the need for #GG, so it's only a matter of time until its owner is discarded and forum abandoned the same as reddit and 4chan were.

People were caught for swatting before in the US. The only things that may prevent the guy who did the swatting from being caught is the amount of resources the police team has and if it's easy to track the guy via the call.The police team that responded to the call has a recording of the call probably which may make it easier to catch the guy.
 

Shrike_Priest

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Jun 27, 2004
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wasn't it a swedish games industry group that released a statement on behalf of all the AAA studios? much like the ESA made a statement on behalf of pretty much every tech company in existence?
Yes and no. There are a few different Swedish initiatives here.

There's Diversi, which is an industry organisation for the promotion of diversity in games. http://diversi.nu/project-organisation/

The project is formed in part by the industry organisation Swedish Games Industry, which is the biggest one around here. The Swedish Game Industry was also the organisation behind the study about how you could implement norm critical labelling.

Aside from that, there was an op-ed in SvD (one of Sweden's three biggest newspapers). Which had the heading "Sexism doesn't belong in the game world". This was signed not by an organisation but rather by individual game developers (however, most if not all of them naturally have connections to both Swedish Games Industry as well Diversi), even if the initiative probably game from one of the organisations (most likely Diversi as that's mentioned in the op-ed).

http://www.svd.se/opinion/brannpunkt/sexism-hor-inte-hemma-i-spelvarlden_4038953.svd

Signed by (notice that vd ≈ president/CEO):
ANDERS FRANK, forskare, Försvarshögskolan; ANN-SOFIE SYDOW, utbildningsledare, The Game Assembly; ANTON WESTBERGH, vd, Coffee Stain Studios; BIRGITTA LUNDVIK, vd, Hansoft; BRJANN SIGURGEIRSSON, vd, Image & Form; CHRISTOFER SUNDBERG, grundare och creative director, Avalanche Studios; DANIEL HASSELBERG, vd, MAG Interactive; DANIEL KAPLAN, affärsutvecklare, Mojang; DANIEL ÖHBERG, vd, Fragnet; DAVID POLFELDT, vd, Ubisoft Massive; DAVID ROSÉN, vd, Pieces Interactive; DENNIS GUSTAFSSON, medgrundare, Mediocre; EIRIK PEDERSEN, vd, Game-Hosting; ERIK ROBERTSON, grundare, Redikod; FREDRIK OLOFSSON, vd, Sensavis; FREDRIK WESTER, vd, Paradox Interactive; HÅKAN LARSSON, Furuboda Kompetens Center; HANS SVENSSON, prefekt, institutionen för speldesign, Uppsala universitet; JOHAN HÖGLUND, vd, Raketspel; JOHAN WESTIN, game director, Level Eight; KARL MAGNUS TROEDSSON, vd, Dice; KLAUS LYNGELED, grundare, Zoink; LINNEA AGNE, projektledare, PlaygroundSquad; LINUS FELDT, grundare och vd, Filimundus; MAGNUS ALM, CMO, Palringo; MAGNUS BJÖRKMAN, vd, Tension Graphics AB; MARTIN EKDAL, co-founder, Simplygon; MARTIN WAHLUND, vd, Fatshark; MARTIN WALFISZ, vd & Grundare, Planeto; MATTI LARSSON, vd/creative director, Zordix; MATTIAS MIKSCHE, vd, Stardoll; MATTIAS NYGREN, vd, The Station; MATTIAS OHLSSON, Pixelbite; MIKAEL NERMARK, COO, Starbreeze; OLA DE FREITAS, vd, Goo Technologies; OLA HOLMDAHL, vd, Tarsier Studios; OSKAR BURMAN, vd, Rovio Sverige; PER STRÖMBÄCK, talesperson, Dataspelsbranschen; PER-ARNE LUNDBERG, SVP, The Game Incubator; PETER LEVIN, vd, Forestlight; PIM HOLFVE, vd, Expansive Worlds; RICKARD FRISEGÅRD, vd, Stunlock Studios; SEBASTIAN KNUTSSON, grundare, King; SIGBRITT KARLSSON, rektor, Högskolan i Skövde; STAFFAN BJÖRK, professor, Göteborgs universitet; STEFAN HOLGERSSON, verksamhetsledare, Stiftelsen Teknikdalen; STEFAN ÖSTERGÅRDE, vd, Fuffr; TOM LÖYCHE, studierektor, Future Games; TOM OLSSON, vd, Bläck Studios; TOMMY PALM, styrelseledamot, Spelplan-ASGD

That said, they did not mention GG. But it was pretty obvious, as they referenced a previous article in the same paper which dealt with GG explicitly, when explaining why they were writing this.

I think the industry should have come out more forcefully towards GG early on. Doing it now would just fan the flames. That said, they've taken some pretty clear stances, and I think expecting big multinational corporations wanting to please their shareholders to come out directly at a "consumer revolt" is a bit much. It's a very, very, dangerous PR-move.
 

Menome

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Feb 18, 2014
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Ha, creator of Adventure Time: https://twitter.com/buenothebear/status/551668984177631232

Always knew I liked that show. Can't screencap as on mobile.
As inevitable as the rising of the tides and the rotation of the Earth around the Sun, the comments list has one GamerGater going through the motions of "Tell me why you think GG is a bad thing, we're mostly good people" to "Anita Sarkeesian is a scam artist trying to limit what devs are allowed to do". Thankfully nobody's putting up with the crap.
 

Mman235

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Jun 28, 2013
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stump sock

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Dec 8, 2008
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Nanashrew

Banned
Feb 16, 2014
17,263
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Ha, creator of Adventure Time: https://twitter.com/buenothebear/status/551668984177631232

Always knew I liked that show. Can't screencap as on mobile.
He watches FemFreq as well. I remember he had a moment thinking over how he designed the characters in his show like how a bow is used to define the female gender in character design. He sounded both disappointed that that's how he made some of his characters but also happy that he was made aware that this was a real problem in character design.

Pendleton Ward is a pretty cool dude imo.
 

jstripes

Banned
Dec 9, 2012
13,481
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It's insane. If I didn't know better, I'd think it's some shitty Cracked or Onion satire. "I played Dark Souls for 30 hours so I am a superior human being with unbreakable resolve. Ha, you think you can defeat GG? We beat bosses all the time."

It's absolutely insane. I mean, I gave a little nervous chuckle reading those kind of posts, but it's so far past ridiculous that it's disturbing.
Yup. They're good at battling scripted computer boss fights with predefined weaknesses for the player to discover.

Probably easier said then done, when companies invest millions in that attachment( #4theplayers, Amiibos and whatsnot).
GREATNESS AWAITS

*Your definition of greatness may vary.

Ha, creator of Adventure Time: https://twitter.com/buenothebear/status/551668984177631232

Always knew I liked that show. Can't screencap as on mobile.
He's one of the most socially progressive guys around, so this isn't a surprise. It's still good of him, though.
 

Tye The Czar

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May 1, 2013
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The best way to see GamerGate's issues is to interpret them as First World Problems.

Feminists on the internet are criticizing the women in my favorite video games!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwvlbJ0h35A

The highest rated post in the comments is: "Feminism in a Nutshell". Let's downvote and flag the shit out of it.

Other articles that might help:
http://io9.com/10-comics-that-shut-down-terrible-internet-arguments-1677109868
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Debunking-Handbook-now-freely-available-download.html
http://jezebel.com/5985635/an-idiots-guide-to-free-speech

If you can put these on the front page, I would really appreciate it.
 

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Aug 27, 2013
6,335
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it's only depressing for me because these traditionally bigoted and conservative ideologies and tropes are obviously just as ingrained in this generation as they were in previous ones. I subconsciously believed that better access to information and having large public forums of discussion would change that, but obviously these ideas are potent and lingering for a reason, and people would use the same justifications for hateful behavior. Same thing with the Ferguson/NY stuff, too.
The battlegrounds are changing. Gay rights are basically guaranteed going forward, at least in the Western world. It won't be long before drug laws are lightened, and hopefully that will lead to better handling of those with addiction problems.

But a worsening culture of toxic masculinity and an entire generation of young men raised on constant access to internet pornography has led to some seriously messed up views on women. I think this area has gotten significantly worse over the last 20 years or so. We have way too many young men today who's only understanding of young women is via TV and pornography. It's no wonder so many people treat women like cartoon sex objects.
 

His Majesty

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Feb 4, 2014
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It won't be long before drug laws are lightened, and hopefully that will lead to better handling of those with addiction problems.
Let's hope not. It's bad enough that alcohol and tobacco are so well integrated in Western culture, let's not make that mistake again with drugs.
 

SwissLion

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Dec 7, 2012
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Let's hope not. It's bad enough that alcohol and tobacco are so well integrated in Western culture, let's not make that mistake again with drugs.
Beer and Bread are the reason Agriculture exists. It's far more than just Western culture.

Prohibition doesn't work. It didn't work for Alcohol and it hasn't worked for Drugs.

All it has led to is the practice being far more dangerous for users, with a stigma against addicts getting help, and especially in the US, an absurdly higher load on the already completely insane prison system.

Prying dangerous, mind-altering substances away from Humankind is a much bigger fight, but while we're at it we may as well make it as safe and as easy to find help for as possible.

The "Mistakes" you're talking about were made before the advent of permanent human settlement. We've just been figuring out for 10,000 years how best to live with them.
 
Apr 30, 2009
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#GG feels like it's getting scarier over the last few days after they doxxed Sarah. They're exclusively threatening people now to try to get what they want.
 

jstripes

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Dec 9, 2012
13,481
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#GG feels like it's getting scarier over the last few days after they doxxed Sarah. They're exclusively threatening people now to try to get what they want.
With all the moderates leaving, it's unfortunately going to reach a critical mass of reactionary idiot and become even more radioactive.
 
Oct 9, 2005
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@freebsdgirl posted links to Gamergate Facebook groups and said cross-referencing profile images with Twitter could be used to weed gatergawkers out of your FB friends, and to potentially help police investigations regarding threats and such.
Basically, some gaters are no longer anonymous. Questions arose whether calling out the people listed as members is something that's ok. Could just make a bigger mess of things. But, you know, hard to empathize with people willing to publicly support and put their names to a repugnant hate movement.
She went to a hotel. Gaters tweeted her home address. Are discussing making false report to make police show up where she works.

In other news, the Gamergate/channer hate campaign against transgender people with the aim of making them commit suicide (like...fuck, I saw that one 8chan screencap, this is literal Hitler type shit) has reportedly managed to shut down the Paypal accounts of Chloe Sagal. Also they spammed a transgender suicide hotline with abuse. This is Gamergate's legacy; new ways for despicable shitheads to harass, intimidate and terrorize their victims.
 

HP_Wuvcraft

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Apr 18, 2011
33,528
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As inevitable as the rising of the tides and the rotation of the Earth around the Sun, the comments list has one GamerGater going through the motions of "Tell me why you think GG is a bad thing, we're mostly good people" to "Anita Sarkeesian is a scam artist trying to limit what devs are allowed to do". Thankfully nobody's putting up with the crap.
And again with the taking it personally, as if he is targeting them individually.
 

chaobreaker

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Nov 18, 2013
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Hmm, TB just donated $666 (lol) to AGDQ and left a message that was something of the sort of "don't let anyone tell you gamers aren't a generous and inclusive bunch".

I'm surprised he's this worked up about GG.
 

pgtl_10

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May 25, 2005
6,456
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Gamergate is now mad at ESPN. What's funny is that they are fixated on the left and San Francisco. Huh?
 

stump sock

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Dec 8, 2008
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I swear to god, if GG starts infecting AGDQ because of this, I'm going to be a salty dog. It's sad when a charity donation, something that's supposed to be a good thing, just makes me suspicious and bitter thinking about the potential the intent behind it.
KiA are actually telling people to not politicize AGDQ, hopefully people actually stick to that. TB's inability to do something nice without also trying to make a point notwithstanding.

I mean, it's a little self-serving in that this event is basically the biggest advertisement for "gamers are good people" on earth right now, but if that's what buys non-interference, I'll take it.
 

Slayven

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Dec 10, 2004
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I was just doing some umm research and happened to see the lady that was doing the Anita Cosplay complaining she wasn't making any money whenever she did it and it lowered her rank. I could only laugh
 

aspiegamer

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Nov 10, 2013
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I've seen people throw the "We've already made Gawker loose at least a million bucks!" thing around everywhere, is there actually any truth to that?
Yes, by some of Gawker's own statements, though I'm not sure how honest the statement because the owner loves to exaggerate and was and if they weren't just mocking #GG for thinking they did anything. The line being grasped on to was "seven figures". What was [also] said is that overall ad revenues were up significantly as a result of high traffic. An amount to where even if they lost the "seven figures" #GG claims it's responsible for it could be laughed off.

If they can randomly state that they cost Gawker money without any actual proof beyond a snarky statement then Gawker could just as easily make the snarky claim that #GG harassment drove up their page hits. #GG counts it as a win, though, the same way an army could hilariously claim a win because they only had to fall back 5 miles instead of 10. "We made it slightly more inconvenient for them!"
 

kanamechan

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Apr 26, 2013
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Because the media is biased shit and wouldn't report on the first account (although it ended up being faked)
(although it ended up being faked)
(although it ended up being faked)
(although it ended up being faked)


I just don't know what to even say to this. It encapsules the entirity of this little movement so well. WE'RE WRONG, BUT WE WANT TO HAVE OUR WAY ANYWAY!
 

Toxi

Banned
May 29, 2013
41,542
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Because the media is biased shit and wouldn't report on the first account (although it ended up being faked)
(although it ended up being faked)
(although it ended up being faked)
(although it ended up being faked)

I just don't know what to even say to this. It encapsules the entirity of this little movement so well. WE'RE WRONG, BUT WE WANT TO HAVE OUR WAY ANYWAY!
It's almost like real media sources actually try to verify facts before publishing them.
 
Haven't checked the comments on KiA but I'll take some stabs in the dark:
- "They didn't do the research"
- "GamerGate condones harassment. It's all trolls and third parties"
- "It's the narrative the media is pushing. Nothing but lies"
- "But she slept with some guy! It's corruption"
- "But the journos emailed eachother! It's collusion"

If anything, at this point, GG is very predictable
 

SMZC

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Jan 10, 2008
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Because the media is biased shit and wouldn't report on the first account (although it ended up being faked)
(although it ended up being faked)
(although it ended up being faked)
(although it ended up being faked)
That gave me a good laugh.
 

jstripes

Banned
Dec 9, 2012
13,481
1
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Haven't checked the comments on KiA but I'll take some stabs in the dark:
- "They didn't do the research"
- "GamerGate condones harassment. It's all trolls and third parties"
- "It's the narrative the media is pushing. Nothing but lies"
- "But she slept with some guy! It's corruption"
- "But the journos emailed eachother! It's collusion"

If anything, at this point, GG is very predictable
Someone said something like "ESPN is owned by Disney. Think about it."

OK.

I don't see what the connection is, though.
 

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
Apr 18, 2011
33,528
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Pro-tip: calling the police on someone for a fake hostage situation is not the same thing as people calling the police because of bomb and death threats against yourself or others.

TL:DR: don't read the comments.

Let's hope not. It's bad enough that alcohol and tobacco are so well integrated in Western culture, let's not make that mistake again with drugs.
Yes, people do get drunk.

That doesn't mean we're in an apocalypse.
 

Alcoremortis

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Feb 5, 2014
2,753
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Haven't checked the comments on KiA but I'll take some stabs in the dark:
- "They didn't do the research"
- "GamerGate condones harassment. It's all trolls and third parties"
- "It's the narrative the media is pushing. Nothing but lies"
- "But she slept with some guy! It's corruption"
- "But the journos emailed eachother! It's collusion"

If anything, at this point, GG is very predictable
...Condones? XP

Little freudian slip there, I think.
 
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