• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

[Gamers Nexus] Weak Design: PlayStation 5 Thermals, Power, & Noise Testing

JonkyDonk

Member
Mar 7, 2020
572
2,294
360
It also supposedly creates a vacuum for the internal M2 slot, so when that is factored in, that slot may run hotter without the panels.
I dunno. I think the vacuum is created by the small metal cover of the M2 slot, or at least that's what I think the Sony engineer said in an interview.
 

Self

Member
Sep 15, 2019
1,083
1,937
500
Me too.
I'm concerned as the XsX is quite a bit smaller than the PS5 with higher specs. I fear it could have much worse thermal issues. It's running flawlessly at the moment, but will that still be the case a week, a month, 2 or 3 years from now?

Yes, now I'm also very, very concerned that my incoming PS5/XSX may die on me. All this stuff is so concerning. Maybe I'll cancel my pre-orders and just wait for next gen to happen. All this is so deeply concerning man.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
47,943
98,699
1,405
I dunno. I think the vacuum is created by the small metal cover of the M2 slot, or at least that's what I think the Sony engineer said in an interview.

Yes, but it needs the panel for the air to be drawn out by the fan I believe. The notches for the air to be sucked out via vacuum created needs the panel attached. See the pics in this post:

 
Last edited:
Jul 29, 2013
3,088
5,840
985
US
Me too.
I'm concerned as the XsX is quite a bit smaller than the PS5 with higher specs. I fear it could have much worse thermal issues. It's running flawlessly at the moment, but will that still be the case a week, a month, 2 or 3 years from now?
I wouldn't be concerned about either. Gamers Nexus has done measurements like this before, contacted the manufacturer, and they stated it was within normal parameters due to whatever reason.

The XSX isn't being pushed at all. If anything, they should OC it to 2GHz. The thing is built like a charcoal starter chimney. Dumps heat like nothing.
 

chonga

Member
Aug 17, 2020
246
349
240
That first tweet is exactly what I said when we got the first thermal image temps from outlets when the Xbox SX embargo properly lifted, and then subsequently when people repeated the same thing with the PS5.

You could literally encase the consoles in a butt load of cement and take a temperature and go 'wow, look the console runs at ambient temp!'. It tells you nothing. All the heat is trapped inside.

Measuring the exhaust tells you the temperature of the exhausted air, not the temperature of the components.
 

Kerlurk

Member
May 1, 2020
1,105
2,443
390
Best thermal analyst of a console like forever. Really impressed!

So memory is hot?

Why have I been so excited about that APU for the last 6 months.

Have to broaden my horizons, and consider those memory chips.
 

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
24,312
30,245
1,845
Me too.
I'm concerned as the XsX is quite a bit smaller than the PS5 with higher specs. I fear it could have much worse thermal issues. It's running flawlessly at the moment, but will that still be the case a week, a month, 2 or 3 years from now?

Meh, don't worry about it.

Just enjoy it and if it goes wrong for whatever reason you'll be covered by warranty. If there are wide scale issues after the warranty period has expired and you are caught up in it then they will compensate you accordingly (or offer a free extension of your original warranty).

No use in worrying about events that may never take place, cherish the now.
 

CatLady

Member
Jun 12, 2018
4,159
13,557
670
Meh, don't worry about it.

Just enjoy it and if it goes wrong for whatever reason you'll be covered by warranty. If there are wide scale issues after the warranty period has expired and you are caught up in it then they will compensate you accordingly (or offer a free extension of your original warranty).

No use in worrying about events that may never take place, cherish the now.

Point taken and it's an excellent point. Think I'll get back to saving the Capitol Wasteland instead of finding stupid things to worry about. 😻
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: DeepEnigma and GHG

John Wick

Member
Jul 23, 2015
1,613
1,485
475
United Kingdom
More compute units in the GPU and therefore more ray accelerators and shaders, faster CPU, greater bus width and more memory bandwidth. Not to mention hardware features like VRS, mesh shaders, SFS, and ML silicon that are not present in the PS5. Good luck.
I know amazing huh? Yet it still can't outperform the weaker console in multiplats. Aww don't be upset. See if you can make another list for the paper superiority of the SX. Go on I know you want to so can reassure yourself
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bitmap Frogs

Kerlurk

Member
May 1, 2020
1,105
2,443
390
Gamers Nexus needs a testing chamber, where they can raise the ambient temperature.

Torture test at 40 degrees Celsius!!!!

What!!! Memory chips are over 9000!!!! :messenger_tongue:
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Insane Metal

Kerlurk

Member
May 1, 2020
1,105
2,443
390
Also, it's hilarious that the PS5 has better thermals with the panels off :LOL:

Hardcore is naked!

 

scydrex

Member
Aug 10, 2017
643
441
310
How can the memory thing be improved? Putting a thermal paste or thermal grease?
I read what the devs on era said. This needs to be verified.
 
Last edited:

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
11,897
24,897
1,010
UK
I assumed that the plates where working together with the fan to help with airflow.

Are you calling me an ignorant?

If you assumed why were you shocked ?

You did the hyperbole quote, I amusingly replied. Of course anything that restricts airflow to teh fan will give it more work, the plates will help clean up dust and dirt into the fan. The fan speed is low and quiet, it can easily add 5 dB and nobody would notice or care is my point, and it will ramp with increasing temps anyway.
 
Last edited:

the_master

Member
Aug 27, 2007
793
1,020
1,290
Barcelona, Spain, Europe.
If you assumed why were you shocked ?

You did the hyperbole quote, I amusingly replied. Of course anything that restricts airflow to teh fan will give it more work, the plates will help clean up dust and dirt into the fan. The fan speed is low and quiet, it can easily add 5 dB and nobody would notice or care is my point, and it will ramp with increasing temps anyway.
What an arrogant prick you are, following the hyperbole.
I assumed the plates would work with the cooling system, since Sony has stated that the console design is due to the cooling itself, and the shapes did make me think of that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: longdi and Concern

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Dec 26, 2008
11,772
6,357
1,560
Spain
What an arrogant prick you are, following the hyperbole.
I assumed the plates would work with the cooling system, since Sony has stated that the console design is due to the cooling itself, and the shapes did make me think of that.

Probably to ensure the fan isn't blocked...
 

Garani

Member
Oct 22, 2014
752
2,750
555
Memory runs hot but the rest of the system is cool.
The memory isn't cooled enough as it should be because there is less optimal contact between the memory modules and the steel plate inside which is also less thermally conductive than aluminum. The design could be altered to cool the memory more. The PS5 faceplates also increase temperatures slightly, so maybe adding some vents into the design there could help with thermals too.
  • The heat dissipation of the memory chips is poor, however, so the temperature is a bit hot, although it is possible that for Sony this data is still quite good.
  • One of the GDDR6 memory modules is thermally a bit warmer than Gamers Nexus would like at 93-95°C, but this is a package measure, so it is possible that the silicon itself is a bit colder than that. You can only be sure of this if you have direct access to the chip temperature sensor to find out the actual temperature of the silicon in the memory.

I kinda cut and pasted, and I am kinda late to the party. Sorry for any repetition.

1) There is just one chip that is runnin hotterthan others. Wether it is in spec or not we don't know (and he said it clearly)
2) He complained by the fact that thermal paste isn't spread out on the whole surface. He also mantioned that it probably is located on the actual hottest part of the chip, but he would be more confortable with having the whole surface covered
3) Regarding side panels,we have no information on the CFD simulations of the box. Maybe by opening it up it works better, or maybe not. We do know that panels are within specs.

Can’t wait for Sony fanboys to be like “who is gamers nexus? Never heard of him”. 🤣

No need. We all know that he does good work and that he has always been professional.

How can the memory thing be improved? Putting a thermal paste or thermal grease?
I read what the devs on era said. This needs to be verified.

Who knows if it really is a problem. I mean, we don't know what are the projected thermal goals for the sysyem.
 

captainraincoat

Gold Member
Nov 15, 2010
5,085
7,627
1,240
I kinda cut and pasted, and I am kinda late to the party. Sorry for any repetition.

1) There is just one chip that is runnin hotterthan others. Wether it is in spec or not we don't know (and he said it clearly)
2) He complained by the fact that thermal paste isn't spread out on the whole surface. He also mantioned that it probably is located on the actual hottest part of the chip, but he would be more confortable with having the whole surface covered
3) Regarding side panels,we have no information on the CFD simulations of the box. Maybe by opening it up it works better, or maybe not. We do know that panels are within specs.



No need. We all know that he does good work and that he has always been professional.



Who knows if it really is a problem. I mean, we don't know what are the projected thermal goals for the sysyem.
Thermal pads between the memory and the plate would be the quick win and the cheapest

no amount of fan adjustment is going to stop it getting hotter though so it most likely will be fixed in a future revision if it becomes a problem
 
  • Like
Reactions: Garani

Umbral

Member
May 7, 2020
1,565
2,733
390
Fucking nerd.

On a serious note, I don’t care about any of this but thank god for people who do.
 
Last edited:

Garani

Member
Oct 22, 2014
752
2,750
555
Thermal pads between the memory and the plate would be the quick win and the cheapest

no amount of fan adjustment is going to stop it getting hotter though so it most likely will be fixed in a future revision if it becomes a problem

Indeed. If it is an issue, it will get better thermal pads. If it's within specs, we'll take care of fixing it adter warranty with some good thermal paste. The easy part is to fix this you dont' need to uncouple the APU/Heatsink pair.
 

mitchman

Member
Aug 20, 2013
1,967
1,408
640
Oslo, Norway
I dunno. I think the vacuum is created by the small metal cover of the M2 slot, or at least that's what I think the Sony engineer said in an interview.
It's obviously not a vacuum, it's an under-pressure compartment which forces hot air out into the area of the fan, to be expelled out of the PS5.
 

BabyYoda

Member
Sep 9, 2020
210
301
250
While Steve definitely knows what he's talking about (most of the time), as others have mentioned here he has a pretty big ego and tends to be extremely nitpicky on stuff. I doubt any of the stuff he finds wrong here weren't already known or considered by Sony.
When it comes to highly technical subjects like this, I prefer my hosts to be great nit pickers!
 

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
11,897
24,897
1,010
UK
What an arrogant prick you are, following the hyperbole.
I assumed the plates would work with the cooling system, since Sony has stated that the console design is due to the cooling itself, and the shapes did make me think of that.

Its not my fault your daft and rude.
 

Blitzmangoman

Member
Mar 26, 2020
463
1,135
370
The fan speed is low and quiet, it can easily add 5 dB and nobody would notice or care is my point
No. I don't think you know what an increase of 5dB is. It doesn't sound (pun intended) like much, but it is.
Atleast that is what I understand.
 

Handy Fake

Member
Mar 2, 2014
4,809
5,029
785
Sunderland
No. I don't think you know what an increase of 5dB is. It doesn't sound (pun intended) like much, but it is.
Atleast that is what I understand.
I've been listening to AC/DC's new album solidly for the past three days. A full grown male walrus could curry-fart directly into my earhole through a megaphone and it would sound like a tin whistle at this point.
 

FALCON_KICK

Member
Mar 19, 2020
209
508
340
Great analysis. Sony should work on fixing this particularly glaring issue in their upcoming hardware revision. 95 is just too high.
 
Last edited:

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
11,897
24,897
1,010
UK
No. I don't think you know what an increase of 5dB is. It doesn't sound (pun intended) like much, but it is.
Atleast that is what I understand.

I think you dont know


We can debate the scale between a wisper and a quiet library all day, but I breathe louder than that.
 

poodaddy

Member
May 2, 2015
4,850
1,005
780
Washington
Great analysis. Sony should work on fixing this particularly glaring issue in their upcoming hardware revision. 95 is just too high.
Speaking of this, how long does it typically take to get a hardware revision after a hardware launch? I never buy launch consoles, for fairly obvious reasons, but I do want a PS5 and a Series X at some point, but I'm gonna wait for revisions on both. How long does it typically take? A year, two maybe? I'm a patient guy, just curious.
 

longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
Jun 7, 2004
8,426
5,792
1,865

Owuch, how did sony not catch this during their qa testing?

I suspect they did not insert anal probes at each of the memory flash, but just rely on some central probe. They seem to over focus on cooling the soc and top side, with that huge heatsink, I'm still stupefied there is no contact with the underside

This could be a developing story. No way should one see the memory hitting 95c, brand new and running just astro. :messenger_fearful:
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,487
11,592
2,110
Owuch, how did sony not catch this during their qa testing?

I suspect they did not insert anal probes at each of the memory flash, but just rely on some central probe. They seem to over focus on cooling the soc and top side, with that huge heatsink, I'm still stupefied there is no contact with the underside

This could be a developing story. No way should one see the memory hitting 95c, brand new and running just astro. :messenger_fearful:

Anal memory probes? Your concern trolling can be entertaining :LOL:. Gotta give you props for that at least.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: longdi

FALCON_KICK

Member
Mar 19, 2020
209
508
340
Speaking of this, how long does it typically take to get a hardware revision after a hardware launch? I never buy launch consoles, for fairly obvious reasons, but I do want a PS5 and a Series X at some point, but I'm gonna wait for revisions on both. How long does it typically take? A year, two maybe? I'm a patient guy, just curious.
Based on the data available, Sony updated their hardware within 3-4 months for PS1.

Also it depends on the seriousness of the issue. If the issue can be fixed by increase in the fan speed, they wont bother much.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: poodaddy

poodaddy

Member
May 2, 2015
4,850
1,005
780
Washington
Based on the data available, Sony updated their hardware within 3-4 months for PS1.

Also it depends on the seriousness of the issue. If the issue can be fixed by increase in the fan speed, they wont bother much.
Right on. Well, let's assume stuff takes a bit longer with COVID and all that. I'm good with a 6 month wait honestly. By then maybe I won't have to spend 70 bucks on Demons's's's's's Souls's's's. Thanks for your response brethren.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FALCON_KICK

longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
Jun 7, 2004
8,426
5,792
1,865
Right on. Well, let's assume stuff takes a bit longer with COVID and all that. I'm good with a 6 month wait honestly. By then maybe I won't have to spend 70 bucks on Demons's's's's's Souls's's's. Thanks for your response brethren.

Ya safer to wait out before jumping on ps5 wagon. While I heard there is a batch of new ps5 incoming to stores in December, better hold that purchase, I'm just not comfortable to see my vram hitting 95c with only 24c ambient.

Let's also wait to see when GN unpack SX temps design. If MS did better, than it's safer to jump in MS boat earlier, if you haven't yet and wants in on some next gen during the holiday
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: poodaddy

poodaddy

Member
May 2, 2015
4,850
1,005
780
Washington
Ya safer to wait out before jumping on ps5 wagon. While I heard there is a batch of new ps5 incoming to stores in December, better hold that purchase, I'm just not comfortable to see my vram hitting 95c with only 24c ambient.

Let's also wait to see when GN unpack SX temps design. If MS did better, than it's safer to jump in MS boat earlier, if you haven't yet and wants in on some next gen during the holiday
Yeah I'm being cautious about all sides right now. I love my Switch, but I'm glad I waited in that too ya know? Lotta horror stories there. Hell, I had to return both my PS3 and my 360 back in the day for repairs, but I didn't get got last gen. Is that cuz I waited? I dunno, maybe, but I did wait and my X1X and PS4 pro both still work great, so I'm definitely waiting this time too unless I have a pretty compelling reason not to.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Jun 26, 2007
44,983
17,432
1,770
Best Coast
No way should one see the memory hitting 95c, brand new and running just astro. :messenger_fearful:
"No way"? Why not? The test methodology they used was designed for consistency of measurement since they can't run any actual benchmark programs on a PS5. It is not representative of the typical PS5 workload during a typical PS5 gameplay experience.


Steve explains the test methodology. They're intentionally stressing the APU to keep it at a high P state and test the system at its limits.

This isn't "just astro".

I'm just not comfortable to see my vram hitting 95c with only 24c ambient.
Unless you're putting the PS5 on a constant load for one hour like they did in that test, I don't think you're going to have to worry about it when playing under normal circumstances. The memory cooling situation is not ideal, but the GN test approximates a worst case scenario, and the reason it passed Sony QA is probably because the PS5 is probably not going to be under load for 60 minutes straight in normal gameplay.

The GN analysis is critical, and rightfully so, but don't blow the results and takeaways out of proportion.