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[Sojgat]

Halo 4 Limited Edition Mountain Dew + Doritos Unboxing

Just to lighten up the mood in this thread. NeoGAF shoutout at the end.

This is pretty funny...

So I know this is fast becoming a megathread but I think I should post this link:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43881501&postcount=929

It really shows how it all about appeasing the critics (GAF) in the short run but the long term plan is basically "we got a good thing going on here, please just shut up and go away".

but this is truly hilarious.

Hitler was a carpenter too (well I don't think he was, but that's a suitably fitting distortion of the facts to fit an argument).

Witch hunts are only bad if there aren't any witches.

Well innocent people might get burnt at the stake as well, but that hasn't happened in Polygon's case. Worst possible response nearly every step of the way, and their site loads slow too.

 

[pieatorium]

Well innocent people might get burnt at the stake as well, but that hasn't happened in Polygon's case. Worst possible response nearly every step of the way, and their site loads slow too.

Maybe I'm wrong but I always thought Witch Hunt as a term was used for a crusade against something that wasn't there, like the actual witch hunts of europe.

 

[Sojgat]

Maybe I'm wrong but I always thought Witch Hunt as a term was used for a crusade against something that wasn't there, like the actual witch hunts of europe.

You're correct. So like a witch to use that term, am I wrong?

 

[Amagon]

The Games Media Must Renew the Trust of its Audience by Rob Fahey @ gamesindustry.biz



link: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...es-media-must-renew-the-trust-of-its-audience

Well, it's a start.

 

[Fistwell]

Well, it's a start.

Yeah, some good starting to come out of this train wreck.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

The disinterest in the slightest of self-examination really looks terribly shady and it's unhealthy as hell.

Yeah. It's pretty clear that now we have to parties in the gaming press:
1st) The ones who are taking an honest look at themselves & their job, Want to raise the professionalism bar and introduce more transparency and honesty to the reader. And I'm glad more and more articles and websites are being in this group.
2nd) The "Witch hunt" calling party. And we all know what is their opinion and attitude has bee regarding the matter.

And after last week, I think we've observed enough to determine who falls under what party.

 

[Saty]

GI.Biz also posted their session from the Eurogamer Expo on 'Careers in Games: PR and Journalism'

In this fourth installment we covered two sides of the hype machine: PR and journalism. Hosted by GamesIndustry International's Dan Pearson, this session looks into the requirements of both professions and the best ways to break into the few hotly-contested positions available in each.

Talking us through the highlights and pitfalls of writing about or promoting games are Dan Griliopoulis, a freelance journalist and PR with extensive experience of both sides of the fence, Square-Enix's Emily Britt, Sony's David Wilson and Eurogamer's Christian Donlan.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-10-31-careers-in-games-pr-and-journalism

 

[McBradders]

Guys, I think it's really important to understand what MCV is. It's a trade only rag that is soley focused on the marketing of games. It concentrates on marketing spends, pillar titles for holiday periods, point of sale items and the general faffing around that people buying large amounts of product for retail care about.

It's always been about recycling PR to get people to consider putting games in prominent positions in the store. In this case, Wainwright is probably doing a good job :/

 

[Nibel]

I will put my fork into Keighley's crunchy heart #WitchHunt

 

[Lancehead]

I originally posted this in the Halo 4 review thread, but I find it relevant to the topic of this thread. It's IGN's Ryan McCaffrey, who apparently seems to *really* like Halo 4:

Here's the link to the review if you don't believe your own eyes: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/01/halo-4-review

Any review that has unconditional use of superlatives is not worth reading.

So I know this is fast becoming a megathread but I think I should post this link:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43881501&postcount=929

It really shows how it all about appeasing the critics (GAF) in the short run but the long term plan is basically "we got a good thing going on here, please just shut up and go away".

Whatever makes them sleep at night.

 

[Sputnik Sweetheart]

Going back a few pages here but:

To make it harder to avoid.

Did Totilo ever comment specifically on what he did with the AC3 swag like other critics did?

The flag is blatantly upside down, surely not by accident seeing as the logo with correct orientation is right there on the screen. It was tweeted after this whole furor kicked off too. This is not a guy idiotically showing off his swag.

And there's at least one post in this thread are calling for the guy's job, as if the flag's mere appearance is a smoking gun for any and all forms of corruption. It's understandable why the term "witch-hunt" has been thrown around by the press. Regardless, I respect Stephen Totilo for taking ownership of it as a breach of Kotaku's swag policy.

 

[WeylandxYutani]

At this point MCV now have two options as I see it:

1. They can hold their nose and continue to pretend that their shit doesn't stink
2. They can terminate their working relationship with Wainwright

My guess is that they'll stick with option 1.

If they retain her services as a freelancer or staff writer they must know any credibility they previously had will be nothing but a dim distant memory.

MCV must be hoping and praying that news of this sorry episode doesn't spread to those making stock buying decisions in the UK retail chains.

If that happens their ad space will rapidly drop in value and it will be no one's fault but their own.

It seems a foolish strategy as the internet loves moral crusades like this.

I literally LOL'd at this part. Do you honestly think that UK retail buyers actually give a shit about this. Promotion via MCV is a small part of an overall campaign. Nobody is dropping orders because the "wrong" journo wrote the recommended piece

This is such a non-story. The timing is unfortunate as its given internet conspiracy theorists more ammo.

As others have said, its a TRADE magazine and is part of every publishers UK trade marketing plan. Lauren writes most if not all of the 'Recommended' items each week. If this article is to be taken as some evidence of corruption then she's also under the influence of Ubisoft, SEGA, Namco Bandai and Warner Bros for this week.

People need to focus on the larger issue in hand rather than trying to paint somebody out to be some sort of demon

 

[xenist]

From the gamesindustry.biz article linked before:

Let's get this clear. People who make these arguments are saying, in a nutshell, that games media - a multi-million dollar field in its own right, one which employs a lot of people (in the thousands worldwide, I'm sure) and which in fact pays the salaries of the very people making these comments - isn't important enough for its ethics to be worthy of discussion. In other words, the games media is just important enough to pay their salaries (and quite bloody large salaries too, in the case of some people who hammered at this line of argument), but not important enough to warrant any scrutiny. How terribly convenient! What a wonderfully useful middle ground this profession falls into, in which it is serious enough to pay your wages but yet so frivolous as to warrant no discussion of your ethics!

I wish I could turn this into some kind of stamp and go around branding it on people's foreheads whenever they're playing the "Not worthy of discussion" card.

Just a couple of months ago a fact became known. A one precent difference in Fallout:New Vegas' Metacritic score caused Obsidian to miss out on millions of dollars of bonuses. Millions of dollars. In a single game. For a single developer. And they have the BALLS to claim they don't matter enough to warrant scrutiny.

Fuck you.

 

[McBradders]

From the gamesindustry.biz article linked before:



I wish I could turn this into some kind of stamp and go around branding it on people's foreheads whenever they're playing the "Not worthy of discussion" card.

Just a couple of months ago a fact became known. A one precent difference in Fallout:New Vegas' Metacritic score caused Obsidian to miss out on millions of dollars of bonuses. Millions of dollars. In a single game. For a single developer. And they have the BALLS to claim they don't matter enough to warrant scrutiny.

Fuck you.

Wonderful post <3

 

[AFollowerNotALeader]

Going back a few pages here but:



The flag is blatantly upside down, surely not by accident seeing as the logo with correct orientation is right there on the screen. It was tweeted after this whole furor kicked off too. This is not a guy idiotically showing off his swag.

Unless we are talking at cross purposes, I presume that this is meant to signal the nation being in distress, due to the setting of Assassin's Creed III.

Still though, I'd consider adding the AC logo a desecration.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

I literally LOL'd at this part. Do you honestly think that UK retail buyers actually give a shit about this. Promotion via MCV is a small part of an overall campaign. Nobody is dropping orders because the "wrong" journo wrote the recommended piece

I imagine retail buyers are expecting to be getting non biased recommendations on what would be in demand products to stock for their store's customers.

If those recommendations are made not on the merits of the product but on other criteria of the journalist due to an existing relationship s/he has with the publisher of those products, this then calls into question the worth of other recommendations by the journalist and the magazine itself that seems content for this conflict of interest to continue.

If I were a retail buyer, would I continue to take the recommendations from this outlet into account? Probably not.

If promotions in this trade magazine have less impact, it stands to reason that ad rates would drop. No business wants to continue spending on ineffective advertising methods.

The advertisers are spending significant amounts of money and this decision wouldn't be taking lightly as an emotional knee jerk reaction. Any company worth its salt with a decent advertising budget at hand should be tracking the effectiveness of any advertising campaigns and have metrics already in place for this. If these metrics are showing that this particular publication is becoming less effective then why would they continue to advertise?

With your earlier reply, I think you've missed the big picture. Some companies don't care if the publications are using underhand tactics to promote their product. They just want to know that their ad spend is effective. If information comes to light that impacts the effectiveness of their ad spend in this instance, do you really think they'll stick around or at least try to negotiate lower ad rates?

 

[Sputnik Sweetheart]

Unless we are talking at cross purposes, I presume that this is meant to signal the nation being in distress, due to the setting of Assassin's Creed III.

Still though, I'd consider adding the AC logo a desecration.

I must admit I like the idea of hanging a fictional flag upside down to signal distress in a fictional world, during an actual crisis occurring in reality. It's just so brilliantly crass!

I'm probably giving the guy too much credit, but I don't think that's the case. If I was on Twitter I would ask him straight, ho-hum.

 

[butanebob]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[Nibel]

I'll just leave this here.

Posted already and probably fake - otherwise :lol

 

[speedpop]

Posted already and probably fake - otherwise :lol

You know things start to blur reality when it has been entirely plausible for decades.

 

[Kreunt]

would not surprise me at all if thats real.

 

[LorDjidane]

The use of a "you're" instead of "you are" on a somewhat official written document seems weird though, doesn't it? (I'm not a native English speaker so I don't know)

 

[WeylandxYutani]

I imagine retail buyers are expecting to be getting non biased recommendations on what would be in demand products to stock for their store's customers.

If those recommendations are made not on the merits of the product but on other criteria of the journalist due to an existing relationship s/he has with the publisher of those products, this then calls into question the worth of other recommendations by the journalist and the magazine itself that seems content for this conflict of interest to continue.

If I were a retail buyer, would I continue to take the recommendations from this outlet into account? Probably not.

If promotions in this trade magazine have less impact, it stands to reason that ad rates would drop. No business wants to continue spending on ineffective advertising methods.

The advertisers are spending significant amounts of money and this decision wouldn't be taking lightly as a knee jerk reaction. Any company worth its salt with a decent advertising budget at hand should be tracking the effectiveness of any advertising campaigns and have metrics already in place for this. If these metrics are showing that this particular publication is becoming less effective then why would they continue to advertise?

With your earlier reply, I think you've missed the big picture. Some companies don't care if the publications are using underhand tactics to promote their product. They just want to know that their ad spend is effective. If information comes to light that impacts the effectiveness of their ad spend in this instance, do you really think they'll stick around or at least try to negotiate lower ad rates?

I see what you're saying and I agree advertisers want good return on their investment. However are the advertisers (which are 95% publishers and distributors) particularly rocked by this revelation? Not in the slightest. Is this readerships faith in the publication somehow rocked by the current situation? Probably not at all.

Its delivered free to thousands of industry people and retail stores like Game. A large proportion of the readership are either oblivious to the overall picture or probably don't even bother to read who writes the Recommended section. Its still a useful vehicle for publishers and the Florence saga will do them little or no harm. No other publication is reaching the trade more effectively so why would publishers go elsewhere.

I agree 100% that the larger issue needs reviewing but making a story of the Hitman Recommended piece up as a smoking gun is irrelevant and just more fodder for people who are more interested in dragging Lauren through the mud than fixing the wider problem.

 

[Jokab]

The use of a "you're" instead of "you are" on a somewhat official written document seems weird though, doesn't it? (I'm not a native English speaker so I don't know)

That is pretty strange, yes.

 

[Shaneus]

Any review that has unconditional use of superlatives is not worth reading.

There's hyperbole, and there's hyperbole:

Amazingly, Halo 4 is not only a success, but a bar-raising triumph for the entire first-person shooter genre. And just how new developer 343 Industries has done it will surprise, delight, and excite you.

(let's ignore the fact that a "journalist" has committed one of the cardinal sins of the written English word... using a comma toward the end of a list, prior to using an "and")

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

From the gamesindustry.biz article linked before:


I wish I could turn this into some kind of stamp and go around branding it on people's foreheads whenever they're playing the "Not worthy of discussion" card.

Just a couple of months ago a fact became known. A one precent difference in Fallout:New Vegas' Metacritic score caused Obsidian to miss out on millions of dollars of bonuses. Millions of dollars. In a single game. For a single developer. And they have the BALLS to claim they don't matter enough to warrant scrutiny.

Fuck you.

Great post. I agree completely. If they do not feel that their profession is worth talking about then i don't have any need to read what they are saying about it.

I'll stick to the people who are trying to pull themselves out of the quagmire and do a better job.

 

[Fistwell]

The use of a "you're" instead of "you are" on a somewhat official written document seems weird though, doesn't it? (I'm not a native English speaker so I don't know)

True dat. Should of written your instead.

(let's ignore the fact that a "journalist" has committed one of the cardinal sins of the written English word... using a comma toward the end of a list, prior to using an "and")

Is that so? In technical writing, it's the norm (in my field anyways). I have an article open in another tab, Ctrl+F ", and" returns 45 hits in a 10 page document (not written by me, but I do it to).

 

[Gomu Gomu]

From the gamesindustry.biz article linked before:



I wish I could turn this into some kind of stamp and go around branding it on people's foreheads whenever they're playing the "Not worthy of discussion" card.

Just a couple of months ago a fact became known. A one precent difference in Fallout:New Vegas' Metacritic score caused Obsidian to miss out on millions of dollars of bonuses. Millions of dollars. In a single game. For a single developer. And they have the BALLS to claim they don't matter enough to warrant scrutiny.

Fuck you.

Beautiful.

 

[Dennis]

True dat. Should of written your instead.

"dat" ?

Sorry bro, can't take your post seriously.

 

[McBradders]

I imagine retail buyers are expecting to be getting non biased recommendations on what would be in demand products to stock for their store's customers.

If those recommendations are made not on the merits of the product but on other criteria of the journalist due to an existing relationship s/he has with the publisher of those products, this then calls into question the worth of other recommendations by the journalist and the magazine itself that seems content for this conflict of interest to continue.

If I were a retail buyer, would I continue to take the recommendations from this outlet into account? Probably not.

If promotions in this trade magazine have less impact, it stands to reason that ad rates would drop. No business wants to continue spending on ineffective advertising methods.

The advertisers are spending significant amounts of money and this decision wouldn't be taking lightly as an emotional knee jerk reaction. Any company worth its salt with a decent advertising budget at hand should be tracking the effectiveness of any advertising campaigns and have metrics already in place for this. If these metrics are showing that this particular publication is becoming less effective then why would they continue to advertise?

With your earlier reply, I think you've missed the big picture. Some companies don't care if the publications are using underhand tactics to promote their product. They just want to know that their ad spend is effective. If information comes to light that impacts the effectiveness of their ad spend in this instance, do you really think they'll stick around or at least try to negotiate lower ad rates?

Retailers are more concerned with marketing spend than the quality of the game. These articles in MCV are simply there to educate them a little more on the product at hand, as has been said, MCV is for retailers, not for the buying public.

 

[Dennis]

Retailers are more concerned with marketing spend than the quality of the game. These articles in MCV are simply there to educate them a little more on the product at hand, as has been said, MCV is for retailers, not for the buying public.

True about MCV but it is still problematic

OK so MCV is some fluff insider PR vehicle. Fine.

The problem is using a writer like Lauren Wainwright to write your fluff pieces and then next for Lauren to expect people to take her actual reviews written for other publications or sites seriously.

Oh so yesterday you wrote a PR piece but today you are a serious independent reviewer with no agenda but lots of integrity?

It does not work like that.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

Retailers are more concerned with marketing spend than the quality of the game. These articles in MCV are simply there to educate them a little more on the product at hand, as has been said, MCV is for retailers, not for the buying public.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough in my reply that the buyers mentioned in my post were buyers for retail chains. Those people that decide how much the store/chains should order in to sell to their customers. Not the end user (gamers).

 

[Negator]

How deep does this shit go? Are we going to eventually find out that people have been murdered because of this?

Every time I click this thread it gets worse and worse and worse.

 

[Htown]

http://updates.kotaku.com/post/34775753950/how-it-feels-to-review-halo-4-on-microsofts-turf

interesting. Don't hear about review events much, so it's a cool enough perspective, BUT THE PR GUYS ARE BRAINWASHING YOU SUBCONSIOUSLY WITH TEHM VOODOO FOODBOXES.

Also, the part about them playing multiplayer with the guys from 343 gets me thinking. There was a (Jeff Green? Jeff Gerstmann? I don't remember) story during a podcast where the speaker was talking about playing a multiplayer game at some event, and how the competition got way tougher after they thought all the game writers had left. You know, as if they were playing soft to give the writers a better time.

Man i wish I could remember where I heard that story.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

How deep does this shit go? Are we going to eventually find out that people have been murdered because of this?

Every time I click this thread it gets worse and worse and worse.

Yeah, we need to sort this out before some PR call a hit on someone from IGN for betraying them by not calling their title, "the most amazing game in all creation, past and future, great beyond puny human comprehension."

 

[Corto]

From the gamesindustry.biz article linked before:



I wish I could turn this into some kind of stamp and go around branding it on people's foreheads whenever they're playing the "Not worthy of discussion" card.

Just a couple of months ago a fact became known. A one precent difference in Fallout:New Vegas' Metacritic score caused Obsidian to miss out on millions of dollars of bonuses. Millions of dollars. In a single game. For a single developer. And they have the BALLS to claim they don't matter enough to warrant scrutiny.

Fuck you.

That is indeed mind-blogging. Professionals of the field saying: "Hey, this is just vidya gamezzzz! Move on. There's nothing to see here. People are dying in Kenya." Are just being facetious or don't have an ounce of self respect.

 

[snap0212]

That is indeed mind-blogging. Professionals of the field saying: "Hey, this is just vidya gamezzzz! Move on. There's nothing to see here. People are dying in Kenya." Are just being facetious or don't have an ounce of self respect.

They should post the same thing when studios/websites/magazines close and people lose their jobs.

 

[Empty]

fahey's gamesindustry.biz article is great.

So I know this is fast becoming a megathread but I think I should post this link:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43881501&postcount=929

It really shows how it all about appeasing the critics (GAF) in the short run but the long term plan is basically "we got a good thing going on here, please just shut up and go away".

sigh. i thought we'd done something positive by demanding better than that story. but no, they just wanted to shut us up. well congrats for that but their lack of humility and introspection is depressing. "why even listen for a second to our stupid readers, we know best." seems like an arrogance rife among the people trying to get rid of this story.

 

[Htown]

So Ryan McCaffrey wrote the Halo 4 review for IGN.

Do me a favor. If you haven't read the review yet, don't. Instead, look at this preview he did, his blog entry upon starting work for IGN, and his Twitter account.

Can you guess, without looking at the review, what score he gave to Halo 4?

 

[sonicmj1]

(let's ignore the fact that a "journalist" has committed one of the cardinal sins of the written English word... using a comma toward the end of a list, prior to using an "and")

Are you shitting on the Oxford comma?

Because I will fight you.

 

[Delusibeta]

So Ryan McCaffrey wrote the Halo 4 review for IGN.

Do me a favor. If you haven't read the review yet, don't. Instead, look at this preview he did, his blog entry upon starting work for IGN, and his Twitter account.

Can you guess, without looking at the review, what score he gave to Halo 4?

I'm guessing 90 out of ten.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

I'll just leave this here.

This one's fake, but we all know that this kind of message is real.

 

[I'm an expert]

There's hyperbole, and there's hyperbole:

(let's ignore the fact that a "journalist" has committed one of the cardinal sins of the written English word... using a comma toward the end of a list, prior to using an "and")

What native English user doesn't do this?

 

[Victrix]

Are you shitting on the Oxford comma?

Because I will fight you.

I had to go double check, I'm apparently an ardent proponent of the serial comma, and furthermore

But seriously, I've been writing published stuff for over ten years and my manuscripts are littered with it. I'm either a terrible writer or my editors are all terrible :O

 

[Jintor]

The Oxford Comma is awesome bro.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Someone give this EGM dudebro a bag of Doritos and some Mountain Dew:

 

[Sojgat]

This all sounds like an argument that might take place at Polygon, rather than discussing journalistic integrity (I can't be bothered finding the clip, but I'm sure it's in that bullshit documentary).

 

[Brashnir]

Someone give this EGM dudebro a bag of Doritos and some Mountain Dew:

That reads like a list of how to ruin Halo.

 

[Sputnik Sweetheart]

(let's ignore the fact that a "journalist" has committed one of the cardinal sins of the written English word... using a comma toward the end of a list, prior to using an "and")

As many people have said, that's a perfectly valid style choice.

The writer has serious and debilitating hyphen addiction though. One of the paragraphs towards the end has no less than thirteen of the things. Then there's this gem:

fetch quest-y

 

[xenist]

The Oxford Comma is awesome bro.

The Oxford Comma is the surest sign of a gentleman.