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Gaming Bolt: Unravel dev: Nintendo is very secretive about NX, Unravel port talk.

Jul 29, 2013
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I am sour on this issue. Treating hardware like it's your baby and keeping it away from devs is exactly what you don't want to do in 2016 and one would think that Nintendo learned their lessons with the software-drought the 3DS and the WiiU were both suffering from. The WiiU never recovered from it and the 3DS needed a price-slash and a huge turnaround to remedy the situation after that.

Also, it's not like I have no experience with this - Having 'engine support' doesn't necessarily mean that you can actually make builds and have a proper developer environment ready. I'd be literally SHOCKED if any of these engines support any platform features the NX might have to offer at this point. Shocked.
Assuming DQ XI, being the game with the most valid source of existence, is indeed the PS4 version ported to NX ... i have a hard time believing that SQEX, of all pubs, will bother with the system if there's nothing ready for them to work with in regard of UE 4 and NX.

It's not doubting your experience ... it's just that i don't think that the situation right now is as you state it.
 

Mariolee

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May 1, 2012
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We know jackshit and people are grasping at straws
If you look at each article, they're clearly linked to sources. Sure people are thirsty for news about NX, but people have BEEN thirsty about news for NX. The fact that we got so many in just a week may be an indication the seams are about to burst in terms of secrets.
 
May 19, 2015
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If you read the rest of my post you wouldn't have to ask "wat".

Edit: I'll expound upon my previous statement for you. Please remember all of this is absolutely nothing but assumptions. All I am saying is that it's possible Nintendo, for whatever reason, isn't ready to start sending dev kits to indies. That doesn't mean they don't need indies, that just means that they aren't ready to send dev kits for some business, technical or some other reason. If that's the case, the NX will need something to fill the indie gap at launch. If Nintendo can market the NX as able to easily play "lots of your favorite games from past Nintendo consoles" on the day of launch, a casual gamer is most likely going to be more interested in picking up a NX to play the snes Star Fox than an indie game they have never heard of.
 
Sep 1, 2013
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Maybe they're still of the mindset that it should be the other way around.
Maybe the suits in Japan dont give a fuck, I imagine some poor guy in NOA needing that pitch to convince some higher ups to give them cleareance to talk about the NX with this dev.
 

thomasmahler

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May 11, 2010
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I can see you are frustrated, any reason you would like to develop for NX so badly though? After WiiU I can imagine a smarter way to spend money for a smaller studio.
It's just something that frustrates me with every developer, again, not just Nintendo. Don't be fucking secretive about your hardware, especially not about specs. Do 100% everything you can to support developers to get games onto your machine.

I'm a Nintendo-fanboy, I want to see them succeed, so it just hurts me to see them making some dumb mistakes like that, especially with the WiiU dying and the 3DS almost dying due to no software support.
 

Ansatz

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Oct 6, 2013
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Only if you care about third-party support. Apparently its still an afterthought to Nintendo.
If the platform is planned accordingly without 3rd party dependence then what's the problem?

That doesn't mean no support at all, but it means 3rd parties aren't essential to Nintendo's NX strategy. This means the success of NX won't depend on external factors Nintendo has no direct control over.
 

MK_768

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Oct 20, 2014
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The Wii and Wii U showed how much effort Nintendo made with third-parties.
First off, I never denied that Nintendo has had serious issues with 3rd party developers.

Secondly, my comment was clearly directed to the portion where he said 3rd party support is "still an afterthought" to Nintendo. He thinks it's the same old Nintendo based on comments from 1 small dev. We know next to nothing about the NX and Nintendo's plans. Jumping to conclusions is just pointless.
 
Jul 29, 2013
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That, at least, is definitely happening. Can't say much more than that.
Well, thanks for the heads up, i hope you're (or your source is) right on this one.

Anyone else feels like that we have a rather high amount of users "in the know" of something NX related? Starting to feel like i'm the only one still completely in the blue about the system(s). ^^
 

ArchedThunder

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May 12, 2012
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The talk between the dev and Nintendo worker seems more like a talk between friends. Like a "tell me what you're making and we will see about development"

I doubt Nintendo would go to a specific EA studio to talk NX development; they would go to EA as a whole and let them decide what games go to NX and who makes it. Maybe it just so happens Nintendo didn't want a yarn based 2d platformer on their system when they already have that base covered.
Yeah, it just sounds like two friends talking, not some business practice... We've already heard rumblings of western devs having NX devkits and EA having had them for a while and even them having a meeting in March about marketing stuff, I think just because Nintendo wants to make sure there are very few leaks it's more up to the big wigs at Nintendo and the publishers they're working with to decide what games are going to be worked on before the system announcement to keep lips as sealed as possible. It doesn't surprise me at all that a tiny, mostly unknown team like the one behind Unravel isn't privy to the details of the system in the early going. His friend at Nintendo was probably just trying to work around this so he could get his hands on an NX, basically if he pitched a game that either a publisher or Nintendo felt was worth being worked on before the announcement of the system they'd hand him the details.
 

Lilalaunebaer

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Jun 7, 2013
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There is a reason many indy games take quite a while to go from plattform to another and why would the NX even be a consideration to be ported early when the games scheduled for 2016 (if the NX launch that early) probably are well on their way and they dont even have no idea what the thing is or what it can do.
They probably want to, because it´s nintendo, and they grew up with it. I mean, i´d want to if i was a developer. But that´s not important.

Maybe Nintendo will offer help once they have DevKits, maybe it´s easy to port, i don´t know. This is one small developer that doesn´t have a DevKit. EA has some, and he works for EA if i understand right. So probably the bigger studios there have em, and maybe it is EA that doesn´t seem them important enough. Aggghhh, who even knows.

They should definitely talk more with small devs. Obviously. Not going to disagree on that.

Just the notion that is in this thread that one small dev not having a devkit spells DOOM.
 

wonderful103

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Jan 6, 2016
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I can see you are frustrated, any reason you would like to develop for NX so badly though? After WiiU I can imagine a smarter way to spend money for a smaller studio.
Wii U was good for a lot of indie studios and the policies there are, I believe, less restrictive than Microsoft's

That, at least, is definitely happening. Can't say much more than that.
That's because there are ndas in place that require documents signed and sent multiple times, which sorta defeats the purpose of the premise here (which is, "I had a casual conversation with xxx from Nintendo and he didn't give me a kit"). If this developer wants into the ecosystem, he can start the approval process by signing up. No they won't get a kit with the speed of an EA, but targets and support documents can be invaluable. For example, as m3d1on is alluding to, "our box supports UE4 so if you've built your game there you will be able to port it without major hassle".
 

thomasmahler

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May 11, 2010
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That, at least, is definitely happening. Can't say much more than that.
Even if you'd work for Nintendo, my response would be: "I believe it when I see it."

I'd love for the engines to be ready way before or even at console launch, but after having been there a few times now, I just don't see it. If Nintendo handled that, boo-ya, good on them, but unless I can make builds right now using Unity or UE and support the hardware-specific features the console offers, I don't think anything's gonna be ready in time for launch.

Maybe Nintendo will have a strong line-up at launch and they don't immediately need titles, but as we've seen numerous times now, it's how the software support is spread up after launch that's the deciding factor. If we again have months of nothing or crap, then who's gonna buy a NX?
 

bachikarn

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Jun 7, 2004
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If the platform is planned accordingly without 3rd party dependence then what's the problem?

That doesn't mean no support at all, but it means 3rd parties aren't essential to Nintendo's NX strategy. This means the success of NX won't depend on external factors Nintendo has no direct control over.
That line of thought isn't in grounded in reality. A large source of revenue for a system is royalties from third parties.
 

llehuty

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Jun 7, 2012
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One indie dev =/= All 3rd party support

People need to chill a bit and stop jumping to conclusion at every single turn.
 

Bold One

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Dec 10, 2013
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Its nice to want to be in control, but you wouldnt think Nintendo would be in that position/


Beggars really shouldn't be choosers
 

Galang

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Oct 19, 2009
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While I think Nintendo is backwards it many ways, I don't necessarily disagree with them here. It seems rather reasonable to keep NX hidden from the majority of smaller devs until the NX is fully revealed. I'm sure they already have a select few smaller devs working on NX either way. Judging by the way the Unravel dev phrased it, there are probably already smaller teams that have been willing to show games and have had Nintendo's approval.
 

khaaan

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Sep 28, 2012
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Come on guys, this is one developer who only has a small slice of insight. Just take a look at some of the information from the "What we know about the NX with sources" thread.

Originally Posted by Iwata on June 26th, 2015

"I will not share details on NX today but with regard to the launch of Nintendo 3DS and Wii U not necessarily having progressed well and not acquiring sufficient support from software publishers, we intend to offer NX through a Nintendo-like solution. Thank you for understanding that we are making various considerations and preparations in order to avoid what happened with the previous generations.

On a different note, I believe the standard for software publishers in selecting what hardware to provide their games for is the installed base after all. The larger the installed base or the more it is believed that the installed base will largely expand, there is an aspect that more software publishers are likely to join in. On the other hand, Nintendo is collaborating with various software publishers. At E3, which was held in the U.S. and is the largest trade show in the video game industry, we received many proposals for joint initiatives. In addition, Japanese software publishers have close relationships with our licensing department on a regular basis. As for collaborations with software publishers or their games, please consider that there are various ongoing projects below the surface."
Originally Posted by Wall Street Journal on Oct 16th, 2015

TOKYO— Nintendo Co. has begun distributing a software development kit for its new NX videogame platform, people familiar with the matter said, suggesting the company is on track to introduce the product as early as next year.

The kit is used by third-party software developers to modify existing games for the platform or create new ones. Videogame console makers such as Nintendo like to have popular game titles ready when they start selling new devices.

The exact shape of the NX hardware isn’t yet clear. People familiar with the development plans said Nintendo would likely include both a console and at least one mobile unit that could either be used in conjunction with the console or taken on the road for separate use. They also said Nintendo would aim to put industry-leading chips in the NX devices, after criticism that the Wii U’s capabilities didn’t match those of competitors.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1171059

As far as third party support goes Nintendo is aware that they need it and I don't see anything that implies they're pushing them away.
 

MK_768

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Oct 20, 2014
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One indie dev =/= All 3rd party support

People need to chill a bit and stop jumping to conclusion at every single turn.
Welcome to neogaf.

While I think Nintendo is backwards it many ways, I don't necessarily disagree with them here. It seems rather reasonable to keep NX hidden from the majority of smaller devs until the NX is fully revealed. I'm sure they already have a select few smaller devs working on NX either way. Judging by the way the Unravel dev phrased it, there are probably already smaller teams that have been willing to show games and have had Nintendo's approval.
Couldn't agree more really.
 

Gsnap

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Jun 9, 2013
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Hardly seems like a big deal to not spill the beans to a small developer during what seems to be a more friendly conversation that happened a while back. The success and failure of NX has nothing to do with whether or not Unravel is there at launch. So long as they're attempting to get bigger 3rd parties on board. And if they're not? Well then they've officially decided they don't care about 3rd parties and that's just the way it is. As dumb as that is.
 

Killroyskbg

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Jun 7, 2013
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They probably want to, because it´s nintendo, and they grew up with it. I mean, i´d want to if i was a developer. But that´s not important.
Seriously you think that developers with small budgets and time will focus on a plattform that will have the smallest installbase and is the succesor to one of the worst selling consoles of all times with porting their game that is already in production for some nostalgic reason? I bet they are more interested in getting more "safe" money so they can afford porting it to more consoles. Not even having a devkit to work with probably puts in even later in their plans.
 

Xion_Stellar

People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Feb 22, 2014
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One indie dev =/= All 3rd party support

People need to chill a bit and stop jumping to conclusion at every single turn.
Because putting up any sort of barrier towards indie developers has worked out wonderfully for Microsoft so far.Microsoft has clearly reaped the benefits of doing this such as obtaining PR infamy in the subject and a significantly lower amount of indie games coming to the XB1 compared to the PS4.
 

Steejee

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Mar 12, 2015
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I'd presume that Indies that have already published/worked with Nintendo got priority for NX related insight (and dev tools), like Shin'en. Aside from getting an Unravel port there's not much for Nintendo to gain from trying to court this specific dev right now and the whole thing sounded like a casual conversation rather than business dealings.

If the Unravel dev has an interest in doing an NX port, I have no doubts Nintendo would be willing to talk business with them, but they may be holding off on spreading their attention around until after the NX is revealed and they don't need to be so tight lipped about everything.
 

MK_768

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Oct 20, 2014
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Because putting up any sort of barrier towards indie developers has worked out wonderfully for Microsoft so far.Microsoft has clearly reaped the benefits of doing this such as obtaining PR infamy in the subject and a significantly lower amount of indie games coming to the XB1 compared to the PS4.
One Indie Dev =/= All Indie Devs.
 

TheJoRu

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Nov 7, 2014
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Because putting up any sort of barrier towards indie developers has worked out wonderfully for Microsoft so far.Microsoft has clearly reaped the benefits of doing this such as obtaining PR infamy in the subject and a significantly lower amount of indie games coming to the XB1 compared to the PS4.
Why are you comparing a unannounced system to one that has been out for more than two years at this point?
 

James Scott

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May 24, 2014
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Because putting up any sort of barrier towards indie developers has worked out wonderfully for Microsoft so far.Microsoft has clearly reaped the benefits of doing this such as obtaining PR infamy in the subject and a significantly lower amount of indie games coming to the XB1 compared to the PS4.
The only barrier so far is that they are being secretive about their system that hasn't been formally announced yet. This isn't prohibiting a game from releasing if there's no parity. In a month or two it shouldn't be a problem.
 

bman94

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May 23, 2015
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This is one of the reasons why I believe the NX isn't coming out this year. It's seems like no devs know about the damn thing and Nintendo has said nothing about it other than "more info in 2016". We knew about the Wii U, 3DS, Gamecube, DS etc. a year+ before release I don't see why it should be any different for the NX. And the last thing Nintendo needs is a launch without system sellers like the Wii U and 3DS. Tell devs about it now, release it in 2017 3rd quarter, huge marketing push in holiday 2017 and get the big titles for 2017 on time without delays. If they plan on releasing the NX in 2016 without western devs not knowing about it they are setting themselves up for failure. Take your time and have a strong launch, no need to rush and have another shitty launch.
 
The teams working on the biggest IPs from Ubisoft, Activision, EA, Take 2 and co. I didnt say Indies werent important, just that they are moreimportant relations before the unveiling of a system.

If im Nintendo and my system has some kind of unknown USP i would try to get the bigger fishes on board first before spilling the secret to every developer a couple of weeks before the announcement.
The second part strikes me as an odd sentiment since the leakiest developers are the biggest teams at Ubisoft, Activision, EA, and Take-Two.

We've been sitting around and having Assassin's Creed 2017, Titanfall 2, and Destiny 2 leak all over just in the past month.
 

ArchedThunder

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May 12, 2012
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Because putting up any sort of barrier towards indie developers has worked out wonderfully for Microsoft so far.Microsoft has clearly reaped the benefits of doing this such as obtaining PR infamy in the subject and a significantly lower amount of indie games coming to the XB1 compared to the PS4.
The point is that Nintendo wants the system to be a surprise and just handing out devkits and SDKs to anyone certainly isn't going to help that.
 

Lilalaunebaer

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Jun 7, 2013
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Seriously you think that developers with small budgets and time will focus on a plattform that will have the smallest installbase and is the succesor to one of the worst selling consoles of all times with porting their game that is already in production for some nostalgic reason? I bet they are more interested in getting more "safe" money so they can afford porting it to more consoles. Not even having a devkit to work with probably puts in even later in their plans.
Well, i heard that the indies on WiiU actually did pretty well. Some better than on the PS4, with it´s 4x install base. Some worse, but that´s to be expected.

As for the point of it bringing them into putting the NX into later plans. Ok. Not everything needs to be at launch. And as for this specific developer, i´d bet, their next game won´t be ready for fall 2016 anyway. So doesn´t really matter.

Also this talk was "a while ago". They might as well have devkits right now. I don´t know, you don´t no one but them and Nintendo do. Their NX devkit is in both states: Existing and not. It´s Schroedinger NX.

So most of the discussion about Nintendo being asses to small devs is kinda moot as of this point in time.
 

James Scott

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May 24, 2014
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The second part strikes me as an odd sentiment since the leakiest developers are the biggest teams at Ubisoft, Activision, EA, and Take-Two.
It's probably easier to control leaks if the hold off on giving dev kits to everyone who asks.
Probably easier to give tech support as well.
 

GregLombardi

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Dec 5, 2008
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The second part strikes me as an odd sentiment since the leakiest developers are the biggest teams at Ubisoft, Activision, EA, and Take-Two.

We've been sitting around and having Assassin's Creed 2017, Titanfall 2, and Destiny 2 leak all over just in the past month.
Agreed, and I would even argue that one might want to be even more careful with those big teams as, from a business perspective, I dont think they have any reason to want the NX to succeed.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Jan 19, 2007
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I've got a cool pitch for Nintendo. I call it Unravel, where the aim of the game is to Unravel the secrets of the NX.

Deets please.
 

Nairume

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Jan 19, 2010
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The second part strikes me as an odd sentiment since the leakiest developers are the biggest teams at Ubisoft, Activision, EA, and Take-Two.
Which, since we're now getting some leaks suggesting at least some of those pubs are working with dev kits, I wonder how much of it is that the dev kits in use by those pubs are largely with very small teams dedicated to getting engine stuff ready for the system, thus also making it easy for them to target anybody who would leak something. That context might at least explain how few leaks we've been getting out of some otherwise astoundingly leaky ships.