I live with dignity. Again, I'm about to lose contact with my coworkers forever. Can you explain to me why it'd have been better to be open to them during our time together? I never had to hide anything from them, I never felt oppressed at work ever. They are bound to believe stuff about me that might or might not be true, it doesn't harm my dignity one bit.
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Gay and Bisexual thread |OT2|Bears and Twinks and Otters. Oh My!
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krypt0nian
Banned
Because you'd be living in the light.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
This all reeks of an over-inflated sense of self importance. The sort of person who wouldn't discuss this sort of thing with their coworkers is the sort of person who wouldn't discuss their personal lives with their coworkers anyway. I'm with you in spirit, but frankly, come the fuck on. You have no right to tell someone who keeps their private lives to themselves that they're without dignity. Again, your experiences to the contrary have probably been formative, but the wrong thing to do here, as far as I'm concerned, is to assume that your solutions are a one size fits all for every personality permutation out there. That's naive, condescending and is indicative of an inability to step outside yourself and put yourself in someone else's shoes.
All of this
It's true that my orientation is one of many things I don't discuss with my coworkers. Am I losing my dignity because they're not aware I'm an atheist too? They also don't know I despise ketchup. They most likely don't know I love platformers and fighters. It's not important to me.krypt0nian
Banned
metalslimer
Member
What?! My business is m business and no one elses unless I let them in on it.
krypt0nian
Banned
But that's on you too. You're allowing them to decide who you appear to be.
What what? I'm not saying the details of his sex life. I'm saying the fact of his orientation.
It's a biological characteristic. Not a private life.
metalslimer
Member
Well doesn't it depend on if you're actively hiding it vs an omission? Hell many heterosexual people keep their romantic lives private.
I get both points. We really need to come out at any opportunity though, so I agree more with kryptonian, but it is not always the easy or most comfortable thing to do, so I wouldn't judge anyone who doesn't. However, it bears repeating, you should, its better to err on the side of annoyance than on the side of hiding and invisibility, the more people know, it's always the better.
Yeah I think there is too much emphasis on coming out and it confuses people, myself included. There is a point about living a lie, a good point I agree with, but lots of people let others assume lots of things about them. There needs to be room for what is best and most natural for the individual. If you're a prude or are someone who wouldn't talk about there personal life in the first place then maybe they don't need to come out to everyone as long ad they aren't lying and the person them self wants to and is comfortable doing so.
I know I've felt pressure to come out or whatever because its what I thought you were supposed to do.
The only real reason I came out to work people was I wanted this friend to be my guarantor for my permanent residence application. I didn't think it was fair for me to not let him know an impotant aspect about me so he could decide if he wanted to do it or not. And so not to isolate him I invited him and other work people to my place after a work event knowing that the question would come up so he would learn of it casually rather than through an awkward discussion. Well now I've found someone else to be my guarantor and we don't talk plus people at the I office who didn't really need to know do know. I guess it's not a big deal but I do feel like I messed up...
@krypt0nian: What if I don't care? What if it's 100% inconsequential to me? If they believe I'm into scientology or pastafarianism because I don't come out as an atheist it has zero impact on me. Biological characteristic? They also don't know I tend to have low blood pressure, or that my skin gets sunburnt very easily. See, I think I have the right to keep those things to myself, and it's not important at all.
I don't think the point is everyone should come out NOW.
The point is that, unfortunately, as a minority we have a responsibility to be visible. Coming out is one of the simplest and least active way to be visible. You just are gay and people interact with you and come to realize that being gay doesn't really change anything in their everyday lives.
Now I know that's not everyone's opinion, but I'm guessing that's what krypto feels too.
Not wanting to discuss one's personal life is totally fine. Not wanting to come out because it will be "awkward" and will cause discomfort? That's not a good enough reason to me.
The point is that, unfortunately, as a minority we have a responsibility to be visible. Coming out is one of the simplest and least active way to be visible. You just are gay and people interact with you and come to realize that being gay doesn't really change anything in their everyday lives.
Now I know that's not everyone's opinion, but I'm guessing that's what krypto feels too.
Not wanting to discuss one's personal life is totally fine. Not wanting to come out because it will be "awkward" and will cause discomfort? That's not a good enough reason to me.
dragonlife
Member
This made me laugh so hard, haha.
Also, I talk from experience and not from fear. I've come out to people, you know. It wasn't liberating, it wasn't meaningful, it was nothing most people claim it is. I didn't go in a crusade to stop people from coming out because of my personal experience afterwards, I simply understood we're all different, with different priorities, personalities and life situations. I get that being gay is a big part of some people's life, this is not my case and my dignity shouldn't be measured by how much my life decisions mimic those of other people.
Bel Marduk
Banned
I don't think a person not mentioning his/her sexuality is undignified but lying about it certainly is.
You underestimate a lot what coming out does, it might have been inconsequential or even bad to you personally, but people knowing who you are and on top of that knowing you are gay will educate them.
Our biggest enemies arent the homophobes, they are loud, and sometimes dangerous, but they are a minority, our enemy is invisibility, because then people only hear those homophobes, precisely because how loud they are. You can't even imagine how powerful it is for the regular guy in the office to know this other regular guy is gay, it makes homophobia to be completely absurd and nonsensical. Without that all they have is the stereotypes, the loud and flamboyant people at prides, the tv cliches etc, etc when is someone just like them it makes their whole opinion on homosexuality to be questioned.
Am I a villain for occasionally enjoying the fact that I can use my orientation as a tool to win colleagues in school-work environments? People (female colleagues) especially LOVE working with/teaming with the gay guy. I feel like I got slammed down (socially speaking) in my childhood and teen years because of a number of factors I couldn't help, and that this is a kind of comeuppance, a chance to use something I have to my advantage.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I've actually found being gay has been a huge advantage in social situations, yeah. To be fair, I live in a pretty major city.
Thank you, completely agreed.
Yep, this is pretty much it. As said on the other page if it comes up so be it, otherwise I don't really feel it's important to mention out of the blue.
I don't know much about my coworkers private lives and frankly I don't care to, and maybe we're just weird but I'm pretty sure they don't care that much about mine either. We show up, work, and go home, and that's the extent of our relationship. As stated by more than a few now, the extent to which people divulge information regarding their personal lives completely varies on an individual basis - which is primarily why I don't buy the 'straight people never keep things private' argument.
People will assume and judge no matter what (hell, just look at this thread). Whether or not orientation falls into that pile doesn't bother me any more than other random assumptions do.
See I actually hate this. I lost a good male friend but suddenly all these women want to be friends with me and talk about sex. I feel 'put in my place' in a way. Oh sorry didn't know you were gay, here are a bunch girls to be your friends. I don't want to be friends with girls if I have nothing in common wih them.
Henchmen21
Banned
God I hate that. A lot of women (mostly of the early 20's) view us as some sort of accessory, like a handbag or something that they need to have. It's infuriating.
I think this is why I have very few female friends. I used to be really close to this girl who would play Mario Kart with me sometimes, but we drifted apart with time, no pun intended. Ahaha, I taught her how to snake like a pro in Mario Kart DS, good memories actually
MyAbsolution
Member
A friend said to me in school last year "You're too nice to be straight Danny!" I was just"haha..."
Now I'd actually feel comfortable saying "Yeah, im gay"
For me its about time and becoming more comfortable with who I am.
This is what i am like.
In beginning i didnt really care to say, just smile and joke... but now im ok with saying full words.
Oh who am i kidding, i should just wear a pink triangle on my arm so i am visible to the entire universe
Fuck that! I do what I want.
Meicyn
Member
kitchenmotors
Banned
Henchmen21
Banned
Lol I know I shouldn't, but I can't help but wonder what the guy in the background is doing.
MyAbsolution
Member
Dead Prince
Banned
Henchmen21
Banned
And he probably had no idea what the guy in his background was doing
Maybe he had a cam up of the guy in the foreground
The desire to... "live in the light" is a strange thing. Me? I don't care. My sexuality is as unimportant of a detail as what soap I use, and I will only bring it up if someone's, like, talking about romance with me. Having the fact that you're gay be the most important thing about you seems like a horribly uninteresting way to present yourself and live your life.
Sure, maybe some people want to be like that because they want to champion the cause and be "loud and proud" and whatnot... but if someone doesn't want to tell people he's gay, whatever. Personally, I don't want some label on me. I just want to be who I am and let it be that I just so happen to be gay and who cares.
Sure, maybe some people want to be like that because they want to champion the cause and be "loud and proud" and whatnot... but if someone doesn't want to tell people he's gay, whatever. Personally, I don't want some label on me. I just want to be who I am and let it be that I just so happen to be gay and who cares.
Henchmen21
Banned
MyAbsolution
Member
See that's sweet but no one said anything about being gay being what's most important about them. People knowing you're gay is entirely different from talking about dicks all the time.
I can't remember which book it was, although it's probably in my box of books. (Probably The History Of Sexuality.) Basically, coming out is important because it makes others aware of gay men and women. Whether or not there is a negative reaction doesn't matter, the fact that it's out there makes it powerful.
If you don't understand why, it's because the very nature of presence is important. If the general public begin to know gay people, they'll likely change their views about them. If gay people stay in the shadows, then they'll continue to be thought of as insignificant deviants with no moral compass, and you know how that goes.
If you don't understand why, it's because the very nature of presence is important. If the general public begin to know gay people, they'll likely change their views about them. If gay people stay in the shadows, then they'll continue to be thought of as insignificant deviants with no moral compass, and you know how that goes.
Insulting others for being "too" out is just showing your own insecurity, IMO.
Exactly. Homosexuality not being inherently visible the way race is, we wouldn't have gay rights without people who were willing to be "loud and proud".
dragonlife
Member
Bois
umop_3pisdn
Member
People shouldn't feel the need to put themselves on the vanguard of social reform if they're not comfortable with how it will affect their lives, though. I realize that you made no such claim but I think idealizing this notion can seem to present that position. People have to look out for their own interests and potentially placing gay solidarity ahead of that isn't always going to be a good idea. Even when it might still be, the individual has to be on board. Some people will always be a bit more cautious where their privacy and security are concerned.
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