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[Freshmaker]

You'd think that Star Wars fans would have more respect for the creator of their franchise than to treat George like they do. Reading this thread has been a bit sad to think how ungrateful some of you are. I didn't like the prequels, I don't really agree with his comment. But I respect the man's opinion, and y'all should too.

It has more to do with what Lucas gave us (three poor prequels rife with bad decisions where Lucas played it super safe and claimed he was in retrospect, INNOVATING?!?), and what he's talking about which was a perfectly serviceable soft reboot.

He said there'd be no followup movies after the prequels, then he said he had ideas, but sold it off to Disney and that his ideas would've been edgy and fresh?

Come on. He's saying he'd be great form a position where he's basically finally immune to criticism. His track record doesn't support his claims, but yeah, we gotta respect the greatness that he might have produced if he only didn't want 4 BILLION DOLLARS.

 

[Lothars]

Star Wars isn't Star Wars without Lucas IMO. Real fans of the franchise know this.

Your right, it's better now that he's gone.

You'd think that Star Wars fans would have more respect for the creator of their franchise than to treat George like they do. Reading this thread has been a bit sad to think how ungrateful some of you are. I didn't like the prequels, I don't really agree with his comment. But I respect the man's opinion, and y'all should too.

I respect the original trilogy that he made but he doesn't deserve a whole lot of respect after the prequel movies. Force Awakens got me excited about star wars again and it's not because of george lucas. It's the best the franchise has been in years.

 

[riotous]

And the trilogy is gonna suffer because of it, there needs to be an immediate threat that challenges Rey and this movie established that Kylo Ren isn't that threat.

She looked pretty much unbeatable by the end and took out Ren with relative ease, and don't give me that garbage that he was hurt and mentally unstable, he should be able to dispatch someone that has yet to receive any training whatsoever with a lightsaber or with the force. And this a Rey that has yet to receive any formal training, just imaging how powerful she'll be once Luke trains her.

He did dispatch of her incredibly easy using the force right at the beginning of the scene.

He then seems to want a more intimate revenge on the traitor Finn (they show his anger issues earlier in the movie repeatedly), and he then expresses a desire to train Rey during his fight with her.

The injury, his anger, the fact he didn't want to actually kill Rey.. these are all reasons the 2 fights went the way they did.

If he wanted too he clearly could have killed them both in an instant with his force powers. They show that power right at the beginning of the situation. Kylo wants more than to kill the 2 of them quickly, they also show that.

 

[bachikarn]

Two points:

1) ANH wasn't exactly incredibly unique. It was literally the Jung's Hero's Journey and he made it a point so that all the characters fall into well accepted archtypes.

ANH was baiscally a homage to older sci fi movies like Flash Gordan.

2) TFA definitely shared similar plots points to ANH, but it was completely intentional. It's not like they didn't try to make it different. They considered completely different scenarios and types of planets,, but instead decided to make it more of a remake/homage as it is basically a reboot to the franchise.

I think that was a smart decision.

 

[Heshinsi]

In the end he took the money. So, what does that make him?

Well he did give it all to charity though.

 

[jeremy1456]

I'd say one major difference in TFA is a radically different villain from what we've seen before. We're actually getting a rookie dark side user as the main antagonist.

What about Anakin in Episode III?

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Well he did give it all to charity though.

This, people keep acting like he's bitter about the money, how many here are giving 99% of their wealth away?

 

[richiek]

What about Anakin in Episode III?

It funny, considering that Anakin and Kylo share similar traits and that he idolizes his grandfather.

 

[Aylinato]

No.

Yes, they did, you can even see the viewership go down each prequel as it was released. TFA has only made the prequel fans upset while bringing back the OT fans +new fans (who saw Star Wars as a niche and not for the whole family like TFA is)


And if TFA isn't a soft reboot then explain what it is(because it's a soft reboot because Lucas almost killed his own creation, I also count ewoks in this as well)

I can even go a step further and say that Lucas's changes to the OT made them weaker as films.

 

[Already Torn]

What about Anakin in Episode III?

A ikon in Episode 3 was handled so badly that this is still the first time we're seeing something like this. Kylo's counterpart in Episode 3 is the robot suit guy.

 

[WaterAstro]

Begun the Salt Wars has

 

[bigwinnerx]

My elementary school kids are well aware that the only Star Wars that matters is the OT and the upcoming films. Leave the PT to die with millennials.

 

[Interfectum]

Star Wars isn't Star Wars without Lucas IMO. Real fans of the franchise know this.

"Real fans"

lol

 

[Already Torn]

Have you seen Star Wars 4-6?


Also American Graffiti is considered a classic

Every other month we see an article about how Episodes 4 and 5 were saved in editing despite George, and I think it's fair to say that 7 is at least as good as 6 if not better.

 

[tauroxd]

It funny, considering that Anakin and Kylo share similar traits and that he idolizes his grandfather.

But Kylo is a uncontrollable brat done well, meanwhile Anakin was done in a way that made you laugh at how much stupid it was.

 

[Caelus]

This thread has been such a roller-coaster ride... I'm glad I watched the Plinkett reviews recently for context.

 

[Fj0823]

My elementary school kids are well aware that the only Star Wars that matters is the OT and the upcoming films. Leave the PT to die with millennials.

Boy it's good that kids always share their parent's interests and hobbies! Imagine if they had their own interests and tastes!

 

[richiek]

But Kylo is a uncontrollable brat done well, meanwhile Anakin was done in a way that made you laugh at how much stupid it was.

I disagree. The prequels flesh out Anakin's reasons for turing to the dark side much more than Kylo Ren. Anakin is haunted by fear of losing his loved ones and gets little to no support from Obi-Wan and Jedi and as a result his weaknesses are exploited by Palpatine. We get no insight on why Snoke was able to corrupt Ben Solo other than some nebulous idea of wanting to follow his grandfather's footsteps. Unlike Anakin, Ben had a loving and supportive family which makes his turn to the dark side look more selfish and petulant and less justifiable than Anakin.

 

[HK-47]

Boy it's good that kids always share their parent's interests and hobbies! Imagine if they had their own interests and tastes!

He saved his kids from watching a few bad movies. Cant we give him a medal?

 

[Lord Panda]

The story in TFA and the goddamn names were borderline laughable. As a huge Star Wars fan, I'm surprised the movie got overwhelmingly positive critical praise. Did we watch the same movie?

 

[Fezan]

I would have agreed with every one that Lucas ruined the prequels if i have not seen clone wars.
Clone wars is the best thing in SW universe.

 

[Gleethor]

Yes, they did, you can even see the viewership go down each prequel as it was released. TFA has only made the prequel fans upset while bringing back the OT fans +new fans (who saw Star Wars as a niche and not for the whole family like TFA is)


And if TFA isn't a soft reboot then explain what it is(because it's a soft reboot because Lucas almost killed his own creation, I also count ewoks in this as well)

I can even go a step further and say that Lucas's changes to the OT made them weaker as films.

ROTS made more money than AOTC domestically and worldwide. Are you going to claim that the sequel trilogy is killing star wars if (probably when) ep 8 makes less money than TFA?

And whats with this "only prequel fans take issue with TFA" bullshit? Not many people are "upset" with the film to begin with, but plenty of people have some issues with it and many of those people would probably take offense to being called prequel fans.

You're detached from reality, bud. The prequels (and The Clone Wars by extension) kept Star Wars far more relevant during the 2000's than the franchise would've been otherwise. And no, Ewoks didn't kill Star Wars either.

 

[Azerare]

I'll hand George Lucas one thing, the new scenery and plot he did was fresh for star wars though not executed in the best way.

TFA was enjoyable but kept falling back too heavily to references for ANH

 

[Sandfox]

I disagree. The prequels flesh out Anakin's reasons for turing to the dark side much more than Kylo Ren. Anakin is haunted by fear of losing his loved ones and gets little to no support from Obi-Wan and Jedi and as a result his weaknesses are exploited by Palpatine. We get no insight on why Snoke was able to corrupt Ben Solo other than some nebulous idea of wanting to follow his grandfather's footsteps. Unlike Anakin, Ben had a loving and supportive family which makes his turn to the dark side look more selfish and petulant less justifiable than Anakin.

Your comparing three movies of development to one. Also, Anakin's "fall" made me think less of the character.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

It has more to do with what Lucas gave us (three poor prequels rife with bad decisions where Lucas played it super safe

I have called the prequels a great many things. But they were definitely not "safe." Dude took all kinds of chances at every step.

 

[Fat4all]

I disagree. The prequels flesh out Anakin's reasons for turing to the dark side much more than Kylo Ren. Anakin is haunted by fear of losing his loved ones and gets little to no support from Obi-Wan and Jedi and as a result his weaknesses are exploited by Palpatine. We get no insight on why Snoke was able to corrupt Ben Solo other than some nebulous idea of wanting to follow his grandfather's footsteps. Unlike Anakin, Ben had a loving and supportive family which makes his turn to the dark side look more selfish and petulant less justifiable than Anakin.

It's true that we don't have context yet for Kylo, but the lack of forward thinking in the prequels is completely laid out.

After the events of PM why wouldn't they go back to get Anakin's mother?
Why can't Senators have relationships?
Why can't Jedi have relationships?
What purpose would Anakin have for hiding his vision from his master and throw vague wordings at Amidala?

I don't get it. Not only Anakin but everyone's motivations are completely out of wack in the prequels. Is the force just making everyone stupid to what's right in their faces? How the fuck could Palpatine be mind-fucking everyone in the prequels?

It was shoe-horned together as an explanation for why Vader is who he is, but it doesn't feel justified in the slightest.

 

[Fj0823]

He saved his kids from watching a few bad movies. Cant we give him a medal?

My parents watched bad movies with me all the time, we're talking The Flinstones movie here, I imagine that was their equivalent to what Dragon Ball Evolution is for me.

They were more concerned on me trying stuff and having a good time than idolizing their childhoods over mine.

 

[riotous]

I disagree. The prequels flesh out Anakin's reasons for turing to the dark side much more than Kylo Ren. Anakin is haunted by fear of losing his loved ones and gets little to no support from Obi-Wan and Jedi and as a result his weaknesses are exploited by Palpatine. We get no insight on why Snoke was able to corrupt Ben Solo other than some nebulous idea of wanting to follow his grandfather's footsteps. Unlike Anakin, Ben had a loving and supportive family which makes his turn to the dark side look more selfish and petulant less and justifiable than Anakin.

They hint that it has something to do with the fact his family sent him away to Jedi school.

 

[Already Torn]

I disagree. The prequels flesh out Anakin's reasons for turing to the dark side much more than Kylo Ren. Anakin is haunted by fear of losing his loved ones and gets little to no support from Obi-Wan and Jedi and as a result his weaknesses are exploited by Palpatine. We get no insight on why Snoke was able to corrupt Ben Solo other than some nebulous idea of wanting to follow his grandfather's footsteps. Unlike Anakin, Ben had a loving and supportive family which makes his turn to the dark side look more selfish and petulant and less justifiable than Anakin.

Do we know that Ben had a loving and supporting family? I can't imagine Han was a good father. I think Kylo was also give much better lines and direction, and was played by a better actor. Also Anakin fears losing those he loves so he decides to kill everybody still doesn't make sense to me.

 

[richiek]

It's true that we don't have context yet, but the lack of forward thinking in the prequels is completely laid out.

After the events of PM why wouldn't they go back to get Anakin's mother?
Why can't Senators have relationships?
Why can't Jedi have relationships?
What purpose would Anakin have for hiding his vision from his master and throw vague wordings at Amidala?

I don't get it. Not only Anakin but everyone's motivations are completely out of wack in the prequels. Is the force just making everyone stupid to what's right in their faces? How the fuck could Palpatine be mind-fucking everyone in the prequels?

It was shoe-horned together as an explanation for why Vader is who he is, but it doesn't feel justified in the slightest.

It's pretty obvious that the Jedi order's rule of no emotional attachments is the cause of Anakin's fall and the Jedi order's destruction as well.

 

[Fj0823]

Do we know that Ben had a loving and supporting family? I can't imagine Han was a good father. I think Kylo was also give much better lines and direction, and was played by a better actor. Also Anakin fears losing those he loves so he decides to kill everybody still doesn't make sense to me.

"It's her or them" mentality. Not hard to follow.

 

[ersocaster]

...what? Does not compute.


(alternate retort: "But then it wouldn't have rhymed! Like poetry!")

In his defense, they are all very different.

TFA follows the plot lines of A New Hope very closely. TPM kinda, a little bit did the same thing, but not in such a blatantly obvious way.

With that said, I loved the movie. But part of me felt it was full of fan service and omitted a lot of important plot details.

 

[firelogic]

I have called the prequels a great many things. But they were definitely not "safe." Dude took all kinds of chances at every step.

I'd say going back to tell the backstories of characters we already knew from the OT was playing it safe. It really didn't really matter what happened to them because we knew how they'd ultimately end up. That's the problem with any prequel, not just SW. We didn't need to see Anakin as a kid/teen/adult. The mystique of Vader was ruined in my mind. I didn't need to see Boba Fett as a child. I didn't need to see Yoda flying around like he was on drugs. There are a great many things are better left unsaid.

Rogue One happens before ANH but it's not really a prequel. It has a completely different cast of characters and it's telling the story of something that leads into ANH but it's something we know nothing about.

The next anthology film about Han Solo is something we don't need. We know who he is from 4 to 7. We don't need an analysis of his life pre-ANH.

 

[Already Torn]

"It's her or them" mentality. Not hard to follow.

But he killed her too and then continued being evil after she was dead. And there was no reason to think he'd be able to save her by killing everyone. And he as clearly evil before he even though Padme would die!

 

[Fat4all]

It's pretty obvious that the Jedi order's rule of no emotional attachments is the cause of Anakin's fall and the Jedi order's destruction as well.

Yoda got pissed in the prequels, Obi Wan joked around a lot in the prequels. He was a sarcastic twit a lot, too. Qui Gon joked, was sarcastic, and cheated people out of slaves.

If this was an obvious rule, then they needed more lessons.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

Just yesterday I was thinking about what George's opinion might be about TFA.
It's exactly as I thought it would be.
He's incredibly salty. Maybe he realised that his ideas for how the prequels turned out weren't the best ones and acts like a 5 year old who doesn't want to admit that he was wrong.

Also his "New planets, new space ships" mentality might be alright, but hey, Disney covered that. There were like 3 or 4 new planets and several new space ships in TFA and never do we visit one of the already known planets like Tatooine, Yavin IV or Corruscant.
And that's okay in my book.

 

[Fj0823]

But he killed her too and then continued being evil after she was dead. And there was no reason to think he'd be able to save her by killing everyone. And he as clearly evil before he even though Padme would die!

Palpatine offered a solution, a difficult maybe impossible option. Yoda was "LOL GG, Be happy she gets to die!". He was desperate, he chose the side that had a glimmer of a chance

As for him killing her. The Dark side consumes you. Like a drug, By that time the dark side clouded his mind from what he set out to do....it happens all the time, power corrupts people with noble intentions.

12 year old me got this the first time., My Girlfriend got it when she watched it some months ago...I really don't see how it's hard to follow unless you really nitpick it

 

[jeremy1456]

I don't think I'm invested in this franchise as most people posting in this thread.

For example, I didn't love Star Wars growing up. My parents rented Episode IV when I was a kid thinking I would love it, but I got bored to tears halfway through. Just wasn't my thing.

In the late 2000s I decided to give it another chance when I went to a super old video store that had the VHS theatrical versions of the original trilogy for sale because they were going out of business. I enjoyed them for the most part (I found Empire Strikes Back super boring though, but the other two were great).

Then I decided I wanted to watch the prequels, and so I rented the DVDs for the prequel trilogy a few years later. I really, really liked The Phantom Menace. It's actually my favorite of the franchise, but like I said, I'm probably one of the very few here who has no nostalgia for this series. Sure, Jar Jar Binks was annoying, classic characters and locations being conveniently thrown in was far too much of a coincidence, and the writing was bad in several instances, but I loved it. Attack of the Clones was the absolute worst, and Revenge of the Sith was just 'okay.'

From here the next step was to watch the new versions of the original trilogy. I read a ton of fan backlash, and I expected them to be horrible. Everyone seemed to claim that they were 'ruined' by Lucas' inclusions, and I braced myself for the worst. After watching them I thought to myself all I could say was 'wtf?' Not because the movies were ruined. The added content and effects were stupid and annoying, but they didn't even come close to ruining the films. They were still enjoyable, and I found the complaints insanely overblown.

Yesterday I watched The Force Awakens. I was super hyped for it, and enjoyed it, but about halfway through I was super bored. The major advantage in The Phantom Menace in my opinion is that the story was self contained enough that you didn't need any prior knowledge of the franchise to follow it, and being a fan of the franchise added supplemental information to the viewer via references.

The Force Awakens doesn't have that advantage. 50% of the movie felt like fan service to me, and that's not a good start to a new trilogy. I would have preferred the film take place much in the future where no characters would return. References would have been cool, but this one got overblown with past characters' stories.

I feel Lucas would have done a better job. Playing it safe and catering only to prior fans is a bad idea in my opinion.

 

[Fat4all]

Palpatine offered a solution, a difficult maybe impossible option. Yoda was "LOL GG, Be happy she gets to die!". He was desperate, he chose the side that had a glimmer of a chance

As for him killing her. The Dark side consumes you. Like a drug, By that time the dark side clouded his mind from what he set out to do....it happens all the time, power corrupts people with noble intentions.

12 year old me got this the first time.

Did the 12 year old you get the hint that Anakin might have been conceived by Palpatine and the Force?

 

[Sandfox]

I don't think I'm invested in this franchise as most people posting in this thread.

For example, I didn't love Star Wars growing up. My parents rented Episode IV when I was a kid thinking I would love it, but I got bored to tears halfway through. Just wasn't my thing.

In the late 2000s I decided to give it another chance when I went to a super old video store that had the VHS theatrical versions of the original trilogy for sale because they were going out of business. I enjoyed them for the most part (I found Empire Strikes Back super boring though, but the other two were great).

Then I decided I wanted to watch the prequels, and so I rented the DVDs for the prequel trilogy a few years later. I really, really liked The Phantom Menace. It's actually my favorite of the franchise, but like I said, I'm probably one of the very few here who has no nostalgia for this series. Sure, Jar Jar Binks was annoying, classic characters and locations being conveniently thrown in was far too much of a coincidence, and the writing was bad in several instances, but I loved it. Attack of the Clones was the absolute worst, and Revenge of the Sith was just 'okay.'

From here the next step was to watch the new versions of the original trilogy. I read a ton of fan backlash, and I expected them to be horrible. Everyone seemed to claim that they were 'ruined' by Lucas' inclusions, and I braced myself for the worst. After watching them I thought to myself all I could say was 'wtf?' Not because the movies were ruined. The added content and effects were stupid and annoying, but they didn't even come close to ruining the films. They were still enjoyable, and I found the complaints insanely overblown.

Yesterday I watched The Force Awakens. I was super hyped for it, and enjoyed it, but about halfway through I was super bored. The major advantage in The Phantom Menace in my opinion is that the story was self contained enough that you didn't need any prior knowledge of the franchise to follow it, and being a fan of the franchise added supplemental information to the viewer via references.

The Force Awakens doesn't have that advantage. 50% of the movie felt like fan service to me, and that's not a good start to a new trilogy. I would have preferred the film take place much in the future where no characters would return. References would have been cool, but this one got overblown with past characters' stories.

I feel Lucas would have done a better job. Playing it safe and catering only to prior fans is a bad idea in my opinion.

I wouldn't say the new movie only caters to prior fans.

 

[Fj0823]

Did the 12 year old you get the hint that Anakin might have been conceived by Palpatine and the Force?

Not really TBH, I thought Palpatine was bullshitting him from start to finish.

Was that theory ever confirmed?

 

[Fat4all]

Not really TBH, I thought Palpatine was bullshitting him from start to finish.

From the Wiki.

A slave, Shmi gave birth to a son she named Anakin, who was conceived by the midi-chlorians to fulfill the prophecy of the Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.

In PM she says there was "no father".

 

[DragonSworne]

So PT lovers, please explain why Anakin stayed evil after ROTS. Oh, you can't.

PT was trash. It ruined Vader.

 

[inm8num2]

Poor guy. Whenever he talks about the new movie it seems he feels like Kennedy/Abrams did this to him:

 

[antonz]

So PT lovers, please explain why Anakin stayed evil after ROTS. Oh, you can't.

PT was trash.

What other options did he have? His wife and kid were "dead". He helped wipe out the Jedi. The Republic was no more. The only person left in his life was Palpatine who had basically been a twisted Father figure to him.

 

[Fj0823]

From the Wiki.



In PM she says there was "no father".

I was 8 when I watched TPM lol I only remember being scared shitless of Maul to the point I watched duel of the fates through the reflection on my mom's glasses, and laughing till it hurt when Jar Jar's toungue got electroshocked. Oh and loving the podrace

But when I rewatched them with my friends, I thougt that just meant the will of the force created Anakin, not Plagueis or Palpatine

What other options did he have? His wife and kid were "dead". He helped wipe out the Jedi. The Republic was no more. The only person left in his life was Palpatine who had basically been a twisted Father figure to him.

Yep, he became a mass of resentment,guilt and anger. Getting more power was the only life goal he had left

 

[Aylinato]

Palpatine offered a solution, a difficult maybe impossible option. Yoda was "LOL GG, Be happy she gets to die!". He was desperate, he chose the side that had a glimmer of a chance

As for him killing her. The Dark side consumes you. Like a drug, By that time the dark side clouded his mind from what he set out to do....it happens all the time, power corrupts people with noble intentions.

12 year old me got this the first time., My Girlfriend got it when she watched it some months ago...I really don't see how it's hard to follow unless you really nitpick it

.....except GL just makes anakin evil then tries to show after he is stil why he becomes evil but only after he already is evil.

Also, it's a really horrid example of power corrupts.

 

[Already Torn]

Palpatine offered a solution, a difficult maybe impossible option. Yoda was "LOL GG, Be happy she gets to die!". He was desperate, he chose the side that had a glimmer of a chance

As for him killing her. The Dark side consumes you. Like a drug, By that time the dark side clouded his mind from what he set out to do....it happens all the time, power corrupts people with noble intentions.

12 year old me got this the first time., My Girlfriend got it when she watched it some months ago...I really don't see how it's hard to follow unless you really nitpick it

I'm sure the 12 year old you got it, but it really doesn't make sense once you break it down and really think about it. Like it makes perfect sense to a 12 year old which says a lot about the screenwriter. Anakins motivation for these movies never really makes any sense, nor does his relationship with any of the characters. Like Padme turns on him to the point where he chokes her out when he goes evil for no reason at the end of Episode 3, but she marries him when he kills everyone in episode 2? And as everyone has already pointed out, this is brought down even more by the fact that Anakin has some of the worst lines in the entire series.

Dude what is this sentence.

It's stupid that there's a third film where Anakin turns evil slowly when he committed genocide halfway through the previous film.

Poor guy. Whenever he talks about the new movie it seems he feels like Kennedy/Abrams did this to him:

"The name Kylo Ren doesn't make sense, he's a Sith and Sith are all named "Darth". Have you considered "Darth Insaneous"?"

 

[Lamel]

.....except GL just makes anakin evil then tries to show after he is stil why he becomes evil but only after he already is evil.

Also, it's a really horrid example of power corrupts.

Dude what is this sentence.

 

[sphagnum]

After the events of PM why wouldn't they go back to get Anakin's mother?
Why can't Senators have relationships?
Why can't Jedi have relationships?
What purpose would Anakin have for hiding his vision from his master and throw vague wordings at Amidala?

All of these make sense though.

-The Jedi don't want Anakin attached to his mother because they are against attachment in general. Shmi is in a system outside of Republic control, so she is not their responsibilty. Cruel? Yes. The Jedi were dogmatic to the point that it blinded them, which is the point.
-They can, but Jedi can't, and Padme didnt want a scandal.
-'Fear of loss is a path to the dark side.'
-He flat out tells her what his dreams are of and he doesnt want the others to know that he's married.