Wait what? Are you refering that he's shown to be evil in II? He killed those Raiders in a fit of anger after they killed their mother. It shows how low he can go for someone he loves.
The seeds of the Dark Side are clearly planted there...
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George Lucas quips he sold 'Star Wars' to "white slavers," criticizes tone of TFA
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Wait what? Are you refering that he's shown to be evil in II? He killed those Raiders in a fit of anger after they killed their mother. It shows how low he can go for someone he loves.
The seeds of the Dark Side are clearly planted there...
^ nah, he's really been evil the entire time, there wasn't really a point when he was ever "good."
GL makes anakin evil. Then he tries to explain why he is evil when he is already evil. essentially I'm saying is anakin was evil before GL tried to show his progression to the dark side, and just tried to wrap it up in the last movie by hand waving it with shitty story telling.
GL makes anakin evil. Then he tries to explain why he is evil when he is already evil. essentially I'm saying is anakin was evil before GL tried to show his progression to the dark side, and just tried to wrap it up in the last movie by hand waving it with shitty story telling.
The wording is still jumbled honestly. I'm following very losely.
I'm still confused
Reagan's BR
Banned
The reception to the prequels is what made them throw his ideas out so quickly.
Being a whiny teen does not evil make. You can say his episode II persona is unlikeable, and I'd agree he sucks, But evil? not really
By that logic, Book 5 Harry Potter is Hitler 2
I actually appreciate that part of his quote.
Anakins always been evil. At no point did I ever consider him a good guy, and his "fall to the dark side" was more "he's actually been evil the entire time people were just ignoring it"
Anakin from the beginning was a troubling issue for the Jedi. He had already lived far too much of a normal life with his mother. It was a harsh abusive life as a slave which already jaded his very being.
Its the entire reason why the Jedi are like dude Obi-Wan this kid is surrounded by darkness and fear and we should send him on his way. In the end they are forced to accept Anakin in the hopes that bringing him into the fold they would have more control than a rogue Obi Wan training him outside of the order.
Its the entire reason why the Jedi are like dude Obi-Wan this kid is surrounded by darkness and fear and we should send him on his way. In the end they are forced to accept Anakin in the hopes that bringing him into the fold they would have more control than a rogue Obi Wan training him outside of the order.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
I would say that's about 75% of the direction this new film took.
They spent too much time putting emphasis on past references. Specific examples were Han discussing his relationship with Leia too much, those two staring at each other for an awkward amount of time, any dialogue between the two that didn't involve their son. It felt like those two picked up right where they left off in episode VI with barely any revelations occurring between them in between return of the jedi and force awakens (aside from the obvious).
Already Torn
Banned
When does Book 5 Harry Potter commit genocide?
Look at what im saying.
I said "The seeds of the dark side are planted when he kills the tuskens, he goes far too low"
Then he says "No he was always evil", I respond "No, before that point he was just a whiny and bitchy teen like Harry Potter"
You realize evil can be a spectrum.
And at no point would I ever consider Harry Potter Hitler. Now, if anakin had the characterization like snape, I could of believed at maybe one point he was good. Unfortunately anakin was always evil.
(Not episode 1, 2 forward he was evil, a little bit evil and just got worse)
Already Torn
Banned
Harry Potter didn't commit genocide like Anakin though. That ain't seeds of the Dark Side, that's acting out of pure evil. That still invalidates the whole next movie and a half because he's already evil. But yeah, I guess he didn't do anything evil beforehand.
I agree with this completely. All similarities to ANH felt intentional, which I think gave the film a sense continuity between the old trilogy and the new one, while providing enough exposition to set up the trilogy for something new. I think it's a solid reboot. If the next entry in the trilogy feels like a rehash, I may rethink the way I see TFA.
He wants to murder people left and right and his answer to everything is murder them or violently kill them. He kinda was evil from the get go in episode 2
I never saw the evil angle until episode 3. Episodes 1 and 2 he appeared more troubled by his loyalty to his loved ones, which the Jedi philosophy went against.
But Lucas has ALWAYS showed good and evil as black and white. He just tried to show how one person started to play with the switch. He was a bratty kid, whose loved made him do something unforgivable, he pressed the switch got scared and tried to turned it off and move on, but the temptation to do it again would still be there.
Imagine a bunch of ISIS members (including kids) killing your mother in front you,If you had the power wouldn't you be tempted to do what he did in that instant?
There's never being a "Gray" character in Star Wars before Kylo Ren (who is pretty much fully unredeemable to many already)
We're gonna have to agree to disagree here
A Link to the Past
Banned
The presence of Jakku says to fans "Tatooine didn't corner the market on sand." It makes perfect sense why there would be a new sand planet.
Exactly.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Based on Episode VII I have a clear idea of what's going to happen in VIII:
Rey begins training with Luke. Meanwhile Fin reawakens, and helps with the resistance. A few air battles happen (with Poe stealing the show) mixed with scenes of Rey and Luke training. They travel around to some various planets to gather forces for the resistance (with several old references mixed in).
It will end with Rey leaving her training early to do battle with Kylo Ren to save her friends. Upon encountering him they battle briefly when Kylo reveals that they are cousins.
That's at least the direction I'm getting here. Some new stuff but basically a copy and paste general storyline from episode V.
Rey begins training with Luke. Meanwhile Fin reawakens, and helps with the resistance. A few air battles happen (with Poe stealing the show) mixed with scenes of Rey and Luke training. They travel around to some various planets to gather forces for the resistance (with several old references mixed in).
It will end with Rey leaving her training early to do battle with Kylo Ren to save her friends. Upon encountering him they battle briefly when Kylo reveals that they are cousins.
That's at least the direction I'm getting here. Some new stuff but basically a copy and paste general storyline from episode V.
I doubt it.
Mediking
Member
"WHAT HAVE I DONE?!" He says as he wipes his eyes with 100,000, dollars.
Astral Dog
Member
How DARE you speak like that to your great Leader, you will regret that when the Supreme One disposes of Kylo after using him, just like Han Solo said.
Great Supreme Leader, may his reign lasts a thousands suns.
While stuff like that plays previous fans(though every scene hey had together was for the sake of Kylo Ren's character more than anything else) I would say there's a lot for new fans.
I think the first film was definitely more remake then anything else. And I do think that a lot of the characters are going to carve out similar niches as the OT. Han=Poe, Rey=Luke, Finn=Leia, Kylo=Vader, Snoke=Palpatine. Rey and Finn will end up together by the end. I have a strong suspicion though they are going to subvert the story similarities from the OT from here on out though.
This film was to spread that wide net to get people back on board and get the old fans back invested, episode 8 will be where they break from the formula a bit more and take some risks. Frankly I think everyone expecting for more familial connections will be proven wrong. It seems like such the obvious path to go down that it will come across as lazy and uninspired. I doubt Rey is related to Luke or there will be some sort of "twist" where a major character is another's blood relative. Too predictable. Too cliche in this universe.
At least that is my personal theory.
astroturfing
Member
such a shame :/ i would have really loved to see Lucas' vision for a new trilogy. i mean, it's his creation, the characters and stories came from his mind.. what we're getting now is fanfiction, which is fine if it's well made and well thought out, but it's still not the real thing, IMO.
i thought he was just done with it and didn't even want to continue the story so it sucks learning this.
i thought he was just done with it and didn't even want to continue the story so it sucks learning this.
Obvious Spoilers are Obvious.
just because they used ANH as a map for TFA doesn`t mean they`re going to follow OT with the NT.
Most likely what will happen is that rey will form a stronger bond with fn while he`s still in a coma. When he wakes up he resets and alerts the empire of the location and what they should do. Rey is faced with the decision to end FN which she does out of love which in turn will turn her into the dark side. FN 'survives' with rey thinking otherwise. He gets reprogrammed and helps the rebel scum. Also someone important dies.
Obi-Skywalker will see that he lost yet another apprentice
ren being the first that went dark and killed others in turn to get more power which is why skywalker ran away to think of whats and why's
We learn of some twist because its what fans want. But it's not what you guys think. Something something balance in the force can be within one. Luke hates him self for what happened - his saber isn't pure but in between and he managed to keep a balance between light and dark and with these decades in solitude where he mastered it he'll finally teach ren how to control his anger.
Just kidding. They'll give ren a suit he'll need to finally wear to live and he'll feel closer to his grampa and will finally be the villain he always wanted to be. Rey will lose in an epic fight where she'll lose an important appendage. Mama skywalker and uncle skywalker will take on ren to protect rey and fall at the hand of rens master. Rey will be rescued by the-woke-up-in-the-nick-of-time-hero with a comedic line - "I gotcha!" as rey falls to her death and she'll respond with "Thanks!". they'll fly off in a space ship thingie and plot the plan for the sequel.
I liked TP. I liked the OT. I grew up in TP times. I disliked TFA. I did like the bad robot reference in the desert. I didn't like the Jimmy Fallon type reunion special they did with the old cast. Han and Chewie show up - wait for applause. Reveal 1a. Wait for crowd reaction. All the fan service was cool but it was done in such a way to let everyone in the audience to take it in rather than enjoy it. Sort of like a wait for applause sign before it flickers on. It ruined it for me. I didn't mind that the lucas wipes were kept in. The lucas humor kept in. I didn't mind the severe rehash of everything. I did mind the forced moments to show off where the money went. Oh - also the youtube quality of the second interrogation. And the lack of danger and the lack of urgency and everything was just so perfect. And the immediate knowledge of the power within moments after finding out that the myths you've all heard about were real. But other than that... I liked how some parts looked.
Lucas was a good guy. He knew he couldn't do what he wanted to do. Sold it. Is regretting it because they went in a direction he would have hated himself going in. It's like seeing your first born take up drugs and leave school to become a professional street artist. That's all it is. He saw the potential of what could have been and saw a decent flick.
Is it fan fiction? Was Frank Miller's take on Batman fan fiction? I guess in the most abstract sense it all is but I think that is kind of a dismissive way to approach anyone or any work that picks up the mantle for an already established brand.
SolidChamp
Banned
Make sure some of you WATCH the damn interview before commenting.
The man seems to not really give a shit.
The man seems to not really give a shit.
There was no chance, in this universe, plane of existance or reality that GL would have liked the new movie. Absolutely no chance, so him whining, even if it's only a little, is completely expected.
This really reminds me of GOT discussions for some reason.
This really reminds me of GOT discussions for some reason.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
You forgot Han=Obi Wan Kenobi. I totally wouldn't relate Han to Poe, at all. You're just going off of their random ability rather than their role in the films. That one felt completely 'in your face' to me. Not on the jedi stuff obviously, but it felt like the point of the movie was to groom her for future adventures.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
TFA sucked we know George. It's too late now though.
CadetMahoney
Member
Never really understood why people are incredulous at Rey/Finn not knowing too much about the Jedi/Luke and only relying on secondhand info/stories.
I mean their background is all the information you need.
I mean their background is all the information you need.
Prequels don't have a Death Star and if we have another Death Star in the postquels then I don't care how well done it is - prequels will win.
Say what you want but TFA was a nostalgia fest that did an OK job; I don't find it amazing or something I'd rush to watch again. The second film will hopefully just use it as a relaunch - am super cynical (unfairly so) after Star Trek totally didn't do this and went worse.
Personaly would have liked films set after the original casts death. I doubt Lukes reason for leaving will match up with the rise of The Order - I already don't believe that historical fact but waiting to see how its fleshed out - maybe he was being consumed by the Dark Side too?
Say what you want but TFA was a nostalgia fest that did an OK job; I don't find it amazing or something I'd rush to watch again. The second film will hopefully just use it as a relaunch - am super cynical (unfairly so) after Star Trek totally didn't do this and went worse.
Personaly would have liked films set after the original casts death. I doubt Lukes reason for leaving will match up with the rise of The Order - I already don't believe that historical fact but waiting to see how its fleshed out - maybe he was being consumed by the Dark Side too?
Pretty much my feelings.
I want to know how the rest of the story would have played out according to George.
I really don't get how some who say they like Star Wars can be against what he says or creates within Star Wars since it pretty much is all his creation. Star Wars wouldn't exist if it weren't for him.
Hellwarden
Member
Honestly, I'm not sure what we're even debating anymore.
Anyway, the prequels were always shit, and will always be shit, but Lucas is right that the new movie basically played it really safe to the point of hurting the movie.
Anyway, the prequels were always shit, and will always be shit, but Lucas is right that the new movie basically played it really safe to the point of hurting the movie.
The Driver
Member
Dunno about his other iffy comments, but George is so on the money about at least trying to stuff new shit in the prequels (even if it was bad).
I can sort of accept that people hated the prequels so much that Disney/JJ & Co felt they HAD to play it safe for this one but I will lose my shit if I see in the next episode more fucking Tie Fighter/X-Wing battles, Death Stars, or any other lame ass call backs to the OT that become big set pieces and not window dressing before we get to the new shit.
I can sort of accept that people hated the prequels so much that Disney/JJ & Co felt they HAD to play it safe for this one but I will lose my shit if I see in the next episode more fucking Tie Fighter/X-Wing battles, Death Stars, or any other lame ass call backs to the OT that become big set pieces and not window dressing before we get to the new shit.
Permanently A
Junior Member
hahah that second clip where george talks about abusing technology
pot calling the kettle black
I haven't watched The Force Awakens, but with everything I've seen of it before its release I can sort of understand Lucas' perspective. It seems like a film that banks a lot on the nostalgia of films Lucas was already involved in, and I could see him being peeved at selling the rights to a seemingly creative entity only to get a film that isn't taking its own risks.
Lokimaru
Member
How can you call Anaken evil in ep 2 when you know Tusken Raiders are a bag of dicks? Raider is in their name for gods sake. Hell I would have wiped their asses out too cause fuck raiders, warboys or any other wasteland dick head that got between me and saving my Ma. Jeez since when was being a Jedi a pass for letting assholes fuck with you and yours without serious pay back? Didn't Bib Fortuna say "Bargin rather then fight? He's no jedi." Jedi will fuck your day up son if you cross them. The trade federation were terrified of Qui-gon and Obi-wan and they hadn't even done anything yet. Luke blew Jabba's Sailbarge the fuck up after his sis kacked him, not giving a damn about all the guests and musicians still on board. Was he Evil? Luke has one of the biggest body counts in Star Wars.
The new shit he looked to stuff in were always superficial things like ships, pod racers, planets, random creatures and frankly, stuff that could be turned into toys and marketed to toy companies. Little to no effort was spent on the dialogue, story or internal logic of the prequels....At least based on the product we got.
Its sad that after all the prequels and all the criticism Lucas is dwelling most prominently on the superficial stuff that's focus so badly damaged the final product last go round: Planets, spaceships, creatures, cities.
At least Disney knows what made the movies great, even if they played the first one pretty safe, Lucas still seems to be struggling with it.
Vampirolol
Member
TFA is not a remake of ANH, it's full of callbacks but it's its own thing, I know that during the first watch it seems like stealing from ep IV but when you watch it again and see how this actually works, what the characters do, how polished the whole thing is, it feels so fresh. Yes, there's one giant thing ripped of form ANH, that sucks, but it's not central for the movie. Holy shit TFA is so good...
Pretty much. Lucas cites his two year old daughter and the fact that he would have been working on episodes 7,8,9 until he was around 80 years old as reasons for selling. It seems like he made the right decision and knows it (doesn't make it easy to watch someone else make a SW movie though). One thing he does seem bothered by is the industry's lack of imagination brought on by executives desire to avoid all risk. Not enough creative freedom when studios have 100's of millions on the line.
Also Return of the Jedi revisiting all the same planets as A New Hope says hello. He literally forgot his own movie.
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