PdotMichael
Banned
Yes, that's the meaningless calculated on paper value of a company no one would pay for it because you want to make money with a franchise and not break even in decades.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
George Lucas quips he sold 'Star Wars' to "white slavers," criticizes tone of TFA
- Thread starter Enter the Dragon Punch
- Start date
- Status
Yes, that's the meaningless calculated on paper value of a company no one would pay for it because you want to make money with a franchise and not break even in decades.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
George could've sold LucasFilm/Arts/ILM to other studios, including Fox for A LOT more but HE chose to sell to Disney and for a relative steep discount because he trusted them the most to not screw up what he had built and because of his relationship with them, I would imagine he also identifies with Walt Disney in a lot of ways. We're only one movie in among other things but Lucasfilm under Disney has done a bang up job so far IMO.
I imagine George has had some level of bitterness for a very long time if just because damn near everything besides Indiana Jones (and one could probably argue that Spielberg has had more to do with that up until the last one) and the first Land Before Time that he's been attached to since Star Wars, has not been met with much if any success and I liked Willow. George pretty much fell in the same hole as a lot of the OT actors in being "typecast" himself and was trapped by the success of Star Wars even if it made him ridiculously wealthy.
I imagine George has had some level of bitterness for a very long time if just because damn near everything besides Indiana Jones (and one could probably argue that Spielberg has had more to do with that up until the last one) and the first Land Before Time that he's been attached to since Star Wars, has not been met with much if any success and I liked Willow. George pretty much fell in the same hole as a lot of the OT actors in being "typecast" himself and was trapped by the success of Star Wars even if it made him ridiculously wealthy.
Dash_Riprock
Member
I still shudder at the thought of Fox owning Star Wars...
Agent Unknown
Member
Why? Did they feel he compromised/shortened the material too much from their viewpoint?
I don't follow LoTR stuff a lot, can someone give me a basic breakdown on Jackson's falling out? Does he have bad blood with the studio, the estate and Del Toro too?
ryutaro's mama
Member
Lucas isn't a robot. The man has feelings and even if you believe he "lost it" (and maybe, privately he knew that too) there is a huge difference between selling a property which you think will be handled by new stewards and you will help advise on (maybe that part wasn't in writing but perhaps he had the belief it would be an extended courtesy) and giving away total control. BAM! You are out and have zero input. It is my belief that if GL knew Disney was gonna go that route, maybe he just sits on the property or pursues a deal that would have given him more say in the guiding of the franchise going forward.
I feel bad that Disney didn't do more to make the handoff more amicable to GL beyond monetary compensation.
For someone that grew up watching the OT, I think it's creator deserved better.
From what I recall a lot of issues stem from creative differences and money arguments between the Tolkien estate, usually attributed to Chris Tolkien, and the studio. They aren't fans of the Jackson adaptation. I'm not sure how they feel about the other film and tv LoTR things since those are rarely brought up.
As a result, The Tolkien Estate is very protective of JRR's other Middle earth work.
As far as Jackson and the films go. Making The Hobbit was not a good experience for him. with the LotR trilogy he got tons of time to plan things out. With the The Hobbit trilogy he had very little time, comparatively, and was often coming up with ideas the same day he shot them and as a result he was unable to make the film he wanted. He also abandoned a lot of material that Del Toro had made, the studio may have had him do this though. I don't remember the documentary I saw about it exactly.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
The time thing is very important. It's sad to think what The Hobbit might have been is the studio had allowed Jackson a year or two delay to get things ready.
I think it was the studio that at pretty much the last minute made the call for 3 movies instead of 2, which didn't help matters at all.
DragonSworne
Banned
So he made the romance between Akakin and Padme impossible to believe instead. Padme/Anakin romance should have took priority.
This looks really weird. Saw some clips/trailers on YouTube.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
This is the core reason why the prequels failed. It was supposed to be a movie about Anakin's fall to the dark side and failed at just about every turn. The love story wasn't believable. The friendship with Obi Won wasn't believable. The turn to the dark side wasn't believable.
I don't think the age gap is problem. It was just the way they fell in love that was so weird. Anakin having a childhood crush on a girl five(?) years older than him develop into something more while guarding her could work. It just had so many weird and un-romantic moments, a lot of them coming from the dialog.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Preach.
Mix Master
Member
fuck does this even mean?
I have to agree
PdotMichael
Banned
Doesn't help that a lot of Anakin's developement was outsourced to that cartoon series. And the fact that the cartoon series didn't even air in many countries outside of the USA, so the first part of episode 3 was even more random.
Dash_Riprock
Member
GotG was overrated crap I cannot agree with this.
ryutaro's mama
Member
It means that GOTG was a pretty good "SW movie" without the needing to recycle major story beats of ANH.
crackhead_bob
Member
With the subtle acrimony that exists between Disney and Lucas, is there the serious possibility that they'll remake the prequels sometime down the line? Disney has essentially stricken any mention of the prequels in any of their promos and interviews. It's as if invoking them in interviews is akin to being asked a loaded question. But it's worth pondering. Force Awakens hasn't even been out for a month, yet many seem to have no issues with the notion of it being tethered to the OT canon, even if they don't necessarily think of it as a great film. Contrast that with the hate the prequels have gotten over the past decade.
It will be really interesting to see what happens 10 years down the line when Disney decides to re-release these films to theaters, similar to when Fox released the original trilogy to theaters back in 1997. Assuming that episodes VIII and IX will be solid films, I don't think people will stick their nose up like they would with the prequels. Even without Force Awakens, the prequels feel really tonally different from the original trilogy. I feel as more Star Wars films are added under the Disney banner, the prequels are going to feel even more marginalized for this reason. Between the films and the animated shows, the prequels are going to be a veritable island of turd.
But when you factor in the animated Clone Wars series, it shows that Disney does in some measure regard the prequel era as a worthy asset to mine from.
But because of what it's tied to it kind of puts Disney in a bind. And like with the OT and Force Awakens, it's just night and day in terms of the writing, acting, and dialogue. I have to wonder if they might one day remake them and quietly slot them into the anthology category of Star Wars films, thus not having to disrupt the production schedules of their mainline films.
Someone on this forum once posted that Disney should cobble the team from Rebels to remake the prequels as an animated series. That might work, as an animated series would be less expensive to produce. And it wouldn't have to be a frame by frame remake either. In addition to omitting Lucas' horrible ideas, the writers could use the extended nature that television offers by reworking the more important story elements that were botched in the prequels. Perhaps even incorperate characters and plot threads from the Clone Wars series into the mix as well. Hell, they could have Anakin start out as a 16 year old to parallel Ahsoka and Ezra's arcs from Clone Wars and Rebels. Having watched Rebels sparingly, I'm not sure if the writers are implying a romantic spark between Ezra and Sabine, but I find their platonic relationship more sincere than the forced, ham fisted one from the prequels. Plus a 16 year old Anakin would go a long way in trying to eliminate the creep factor that many got the sense of by having a much younger Anakin having a crush on the much older Natalie Portman.
It will be really interesting to see what happens 10 years down the line when Disney decides to re-release these films to theaters, similar to when Fox released the original trilogy to theaters back in 1997. Assuming that episodes VIII and IX will be solid films, I don't think people will stick their nose up like they would with the prequels. Even without Force Awakens, the prequels feel really tonally different from the original trilogy. I feel as more Star Wars films are added under the Disney banner, the prequels are going to feel even more marginalized for this reason. Between the films and the animated shows, the prequels are going to be a veritable island of turd.
But when you factor in the animated Clone Wars series, it shows that Disney does in some measure regard the prequel era as a worthy asset to mine from.
But because of what it's tied to it kind of puts Disney in a bind. And like with the OT and Force Awakens, it's just night and day in terms of the writing, acting, and dialogue. I have to wonder if they might one day remake them and quietly slot them into the anthology category of Star Wars films, thus not having to disrupt the production schedules of their mainline films.
Someone on this forum once posted that Disney should cobble the team from Rebels to remake the prequels as an animated series. That might work, as an animated series would be less expensive to produce. And it wouldn't have to be a frame by frame remake either. In addition to omitting Lucas' horrible ideas, the writers could use the extended nature that television offers by reworking the more important story elements that were botched in the prequels. Perhaps even incorperate characters and plot threads from the Clone Wars series into the mix as well. Hell, they could have Anakin start out as a 16 year old to parallel Ahsoka and Ezra's arcs from Clone Wars and Rebels. Having watched Rebels sparingly, I'm not sure if the writers are implying a romantic spark between Ezra and Sabine, but I find their platonic relationship more sincere than the forced, ham fisted one from the prequels. Plus a 16 year old Anakin would go a long way in trying to eliminate the creep factor that many got the sense of by having a much younger Anakin having a crush on the much older Natalie Portman.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I think they'll just ignore them. The new films are set 50 years after the prequels. There's just no reason to have to reference them.
True Savior
Member
I''ve accepted that TFA is (bad) fanfic. I miss George already. But I do have hight hopes for Rian Johnson.
No.
No.
ryutaro's mama
Member
My understanding is part of the deal is 1-3 are canon, period. I would assume that means remaking them is a deal breaker but I am no lawyer.
The reason that they are not mentioning the PT is they need people to forget how much they hated those and focus on the new.
Banjotanooki
Member
Wasn't there a nod to ATOC in TFA? Thought one of the generals mentioned a clone army.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
It's a weak reference. The Clone War was established in A New Hope.
The one major bad about TFA is that it hits the same beats as A New Hope too much.
The one major good thing about the prequels is that it doesn't retread the same beats.
Prequels still don't have enough good elements for it to be good. TFA don't have enough bad elements for it to be bad.
The one major good thing about the prequels is that it doesn't retread the same beats.
Prequels still don't have enough good elements for it to be good. TFA don't have enough bad elements for it to be bad.
Dash_Riprock
Member
That and Maz mentioning the Sith are the only references to the PT I caught, and I've seen TFA twice.
There will no doubt be more in the coming episodes. Expect more Vader stuff in 8.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Vader references the OT; Anakin the PT.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
I found those bits to often to be the high points of the movie though, whenever it fell away from ANH things were very hit and miss.
Yes, the age gap isn't the problem. It could have worked if he really played up Anakin not having any idea how to interact with women so that he came off as someone trying too hard and failing constantly in an endearing way rather than a creep, and if the boredom of Padme's bureaucratic life was played up so that she saw Anakin as a bad boy who could give her life some excitement. They wouldn't have to get immediately married either.
ryutaro's mama
Member
That is what bothered me most. The entire movie played too much to the nostalgia tick boxes. It felt like an exercise in, "Remember when you liked SW? Here is another scene to directly reference that love!"
And I disagree with your second point. The banter, characters and chemistry were working. They could have taken the ANH training wheels off and I think we might have gotten a better, more original film.
electroshockwave
Member
I still think it's really weird that the Republic were the ones using clones as their army in the prequels. The Jedi have no qualms about mass producing people to send to their death? There's a running theme in the original trilogy about droids being slaves so you could argue they have sentience and shouldn't be used for war either but it's certainly got to be better than using clones.
EvilRedEye
Member
I got the impression that the clone army line was just a bit of business to clarify that the New Order stormtroopers aren't clones.
It's kind of interesting how the franchise is being skewed post-Episode III. I think the only prequel-era canon novel so far was an unproduced Clone Wars arc.
It's kind of interesting how the franchise is being skewed post-Episode III. I think the only prequel-era canon novel so far was an unproduced Clone Wars arc.
crackhead_bob
Member
If Disney gently showed Lucas the door in regards to his ideas for Force Awakens, who's to say that they might hold the same sentiments when it comes to addressing the prequels. They have to know that trying to integrate prequel elements into future films will potentially piss away much of the good will they've taken great pains at restoring. And who's to say that a remake would invalidate eps i-iii? They could exist in tandem with one another for fans to pick and choose according to their preference. That's more than I can say for Lucas, who to the bitter end refused to release the original trilogy in its unaltered form on home video.
Yes, that's the point. TCW touches on this. You're supposed to feel uneasy with the fact that the Jedi Council have no qualms about using a clone army.
If you define "prequel era" as anything prior to the Galactic Civil War, there's quite a bit of content that's been put out. If you define "prequel era" as stopping with RotS, then yeah, Dark Disciple is the only novel. But the novels, comics, and Rebels have had constant ties and callbacks to the prequel trilogy + The Clone Wars. Lucasfilm is not doing anything to hide the prequels.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Dude, you can't believe this...of course a remake would invalidate the original versions of the PT. How would Disney even market it otherwise? "Here is a reimagining of the PT but please, feel free to decide if this one or the other works better for you."
I don't think Disney has any interest in going backwards at this point when it comes to the PT. They have a ton of stories they can tell from the OT and beyond.
And I know this might come as a shock but not everyone HATES the PT (even if they like the OT significantly more).
Dash_Riprock
Member
Every scrap of info about the Clone Wars pre-AotC, from the OT movies and novelizations to the EU suggested that the clones were the ones ATTACKING the Republic, not fighting for it. And really, what a stupid name to call a war. Does anyone call the American Revolution the Hessian War? Why would anyone name the war by the type of soldier in the defending army?
Messypandas
Member
electroshockwave
Member
I've been thinking of watching more of TCW, I thought it was okay for the season and a half of watching it but from the clips I've seen recently it definitely got more interesting. Still, I think the prequel films needed to touch on the issue themselves. It's not really a defence of the PT to say that a TV series that came later covered it.
Yeah, I feel that it makes way more sense for the attacking force to be using clones.
Messypandas
Member
People would be stupid to believe that. The foresight he had to take the merchandise money for Star Wars might be one of the slickest deals in entertainment history.
shoryukens
Member
What's with the white slaver comment?
Yeah, it's too bad he didn't have someone helping him write the characters. So many opportunities he missed by just a few lines here and there.
- - -
I don't think Disney isshying away from the prequels at all. Rebels is very much tied to the prequels and it has a huge presence in terms of marketing.
I feel that the Episode 8 *spoilers for toward the end of Episode 7*
will have more callbacks since it will likely present more opportunities for characters to talk about the Jedi and Sith as well as the past of Anakin. This is mostly due to Rey and KKylo Ren being in with training with the people who probably have the most knowledge about the old republic in the galaxy.
This thread and the accompanying video talks about the problems with the production:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1142576
The whole estate thing is because like what was said, they are extremely protective, didn't like the adaptations and were also(probably the biggest reason) pissed about the money situation. After all when Hollywood accountants get done, there is magically never any profit. So the Tolkien estate, from what I can gather, has seen very little from the studios and has been tied up in lawsuits for years.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I mentioned this either. He used a not so apt analogy to describe how he felt tricked into selling his "kids" into (narrative) slavery.
Mix Master
Member
As i said earlier he should bow out gracefully, he has a beautiful family, lots of money and a kind giving heart. Just go the stan lee route and appear at comic-cons here and there and don't say anything stupid, its that simple. in a few years people will go back to loving him unconditionally.
ryutaro's mama
Member
the 'i was a great dad' obituary bit hit me right in the guts
whoa, lucas
Wow...in context...that is a bit...wow!
- Status