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[Monocle]

As i said earlier he should bow out gracefully, he has a beautiful family, lots of money and a kind giving heart. Just go the stan lee route and appear at comic-cons here and there and don't say anything stupid, its that simple. in a few years people will go back to loving him unconditionally.

Pretty much.

 

[Kalentan]

If Disney gently showed Lucas the door in regards to his ideas for Force Awakens, who's to say that they might hold the same sentiments when it comes to addressing the prequels. They have to know that trying to integrate prequel elements into future films will potentially piss away much of the good will they've taken great pains at restoring. And who's to say that a remake would invalidate eps i-iii? They could exist in tandem with one another for fans to pick and choose according to their preference. That's more than I can say for Lucas, who to the bitter end refused to release the original trilogy in its unaltered form on home video.

Episodes 1 ~ 3 are canon. People need to get over this and stop thinking they're going to somehow invalidate them or simply make them non-canon. Lucasfilm has already put out various comics through Marvel that have prequel-era references in the OT-era and even putting out a new comic this month between episodes 1 and 2.

 

[Tesseract]

Wow...in context...that is a bit...wow!

i'll portmanteau up, meet me somewhere

 

[Sayers]

I've been thinking of watching more of TCW, I thought it was okay for the season and a half of watching it but from the clips I've seen recently it definitely got more interesting. Still, I think the prequel films needed to touch on the issue themselves. It's not really a defence of the PT to say that a TV series that came later covered it.

Do it. The first couple of seasons are a little goofy (though they have some high points) but Seasons 3 through 6 are some of the absolute best of Star Wars.

 

[Tesseract]

holy shit, never piss off charlie rose

he loves him some trophies

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Episodes 1 ~ 3 are canon. People need to get over this and stop thinking they're going to somehow invalidate them or simply make them non-canon. Lucasfilm has already put out various comics through Marvel that have prequel-era references in the OT-era and even putting out a new comic this month between episodes 1 and 2.

Canon yes, I feel they've not been acknowledged for fear of tainting the new movies though, either that or there so little of interest to take from them.

 

[EGM1966]

The thing is, disney made guardians of the galaxy, so I know they can do better than just a straight rehash.

We'll see in 2017. At least its obvious its a very deliberate and reasoned replay of ANH to safely reintroduce the franchise so i too have hopes going forward the material will be fresher.

 

[PdotMichael]

Outside of the possible Boba Fett and Obi-Wan movies. They could easily get away with basically ignoring everything from the first three episode.

 

[Jonm1010]

We'll see in 2017. At least its obvious its a very deliberate and reasoned replay of ANH to safely reintroduce the franchise so i too have hopes going forward the material will be fresher.

Given what I have read about JJ commenting on Rian's script, I am expecting we won't be seeing a rehash of ESB and Jedi for the next two films.

 

[DrForester]

We'll see in 2017. At least its obvious its a very deliberate and reasoned replay of ANH to safely reintroduce the franchise so i too have hopes going forward the material will be fresher.

This is how I view it. I enjoyed the film, despite the rehashing. Quite frankly if they had just done something other than a new Death Star, I wouldn't even care about the other similarities. It was a safe way to reintroduce Star Wars with the first real Star Wars film in 30 years. I hope they move on and do something new now, and will be a lot more critical of a ESB rehash if that's what they go for.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Outside of the possible Boba Fett and Obi-Wan movies. They could easily get away with basically ignoring everything from the first three episode.

Fett and Obi Wan would likely take place between 3 and 4. There's a good 20 year timeframe there. Rogue One also lives there.

There is very little reason, cinematically, to revisit a time before the end of ROTS.

EDIT: Yeah, DrForester, the Death Stat redux put it over the top for me. I think everything else is palatable.

 

[Tesseract]

okay, lucas is a genius crazy person

 

[PdotMichael]

Fett and Obi Wan would likely take place between 3 and 4. There's a good 20 year timeframe there. Rogue One also lives there.

There is very little reason, cinematically, to revisit a time before the end of ROTS.

EDIT: Yeah, DrForester, the Death Stat redux put it over the top for me. I think everything else is palatable.

I mean they would be pretty much forced to refer to events of the prequels. While nothing is really relevant for the movies which play like 50 years after the prequels.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I mean they would be pretty much forced to refer to events of the prequels.

Sure, maybe in passing but for the most part, that 20 year window is ripe with possibilities that involve the rise of the Empire and the Galactic fleet and whatnot. The universe left behind after the Fall Of The Jedi and Senate.

These are all interesting themes that would do better to foreshadow things to come in the OT timeframe than reference things that happened in the past. That's why it's so good that GL didn't go with his Young Han on Kasshykk plan that he wanted in ROTS. Opens up all kinds of neat possibilities now.

And to be honest, the OT is the timeframe I would rather have further fleshed out than PT and that is what we are getting.

 

[Kuros]

Outside of the possible Boba Fett and Obi-Wan movies. They could easily get away with basically ignoring everything from the first three episode.

Exactly this. The Emperor wiped out pretty much all traces/knowledge of the Jedi. "Ancient Religion" etc. It means they can ignore midiclorians as no one in the ST would know anything about them.

 

[JimiNutz]

I'll be forever grateful to Lucas for creating the Star Wars universe and I do feel (for better or for worse) that his absence was really felt in Episode VII.
I think Star Wars was at its best when Lucas was involved... Just not writing or directing. Do his children still work for Lucasfilm?

 

[DragonSworne]

Exactly this. The Emperor wiped out pretty much all traces/knowledge of the Jedi. "Ancient Religion" etc. It means they can ignore midiclorians as no one in the ST would know anything about them.

Disney should just redo the PT and de-canonize the Lucas films.

Call it "the Real Vader story"

 

[Kuros]

Disney should just redo the PT and de-canonize the Lucas films.

I'm a prequel hater and i'd love for Anakin to actually be something like he was described by Obi Wan in ANH but I'm sure they won't do that.

 

[TheDinoman]

Disney should just redo the PT and de-canonize the Lucas films.

Call it "the Real Vader story"

They should just move on, to be honest.

 

[void666]

Disney should just redo the PT and de-canonize the Lucas films.

Call it "the Real Vader story"

I bet they eventually will reboot the whole thing.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I'm a prequel hater and i'd love for Anakin to actually be something like he was described by Obi Wan in ANH but I'm sure they won't do that.

They won't do that until they reboot the entire series, so not for another 10-20 years at the minimum.

 

[Jonm1010]

Lucas isn't a robot. The man has feelings and even if you believe he "lost it" (and maybe, privately he knew that too) there is a huge difference between selling a property which you think will be handled by new stewards and you will help advise on (maybe that part wasn't in writing but perhaps he had the belief it would be an extended courtesy) and giving away total control. BAM! You are out and have zero input. It is my belief that if GL knew Disney was gonna go that route, maybe he just sits on the property or pursues a deal that would have given him more say in the guiding of the franchise going forward.

I feel bad that Disney didn't do more to make the handoff more amicable to GL beyond monetary compensation.

For someone that grew up watching the OT, I think it's creator deserved better.

But look at it from Disney's perspective too. If they have a creative staff they trust and believe in, who they think can do the franchise justice on many fronts, and they see the story ideas from Lucas and find them trash, are you really going to bring aboard a potential time bomb of bad ideas and influence into the inner circle of your 4 billion dollar investment? Especially when he seems so hard headed that his ideas are still good?

Lucas seems to have made it hard for Lucas to have a say.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Episodes 1 ~ 3 are canon. People need to get over this and stop thinking they're going to somehow invalidate them or simply make them non-canon. Lucasfilm has already put out various comics through Marvel that have prequel-era references in the OT-era and even putting out a new comic this month between episodes 1 and 2.

They are canon until Lucas dies, then Disney can remake the prequels and brand them "non-canon-but-sorta-actually-canon" Elseworld-like "Star Wars: Legends".

 

[ryutaro's mama]

But look at it from Disney's perspective too. If they have a creative staff they trust and believe in, who they think can do the franchise justice on many fronts, and they see the story ideas from Lucas and find them trash, are you really going to bring aboard a potential time bomb of bad ideas and influence into the inner circle of your 4 billion dollar investment? Especially when he seems so hard headed that his ideas are still good?

Lucas seems to have made it hard for Lucas to have a say.

Well, sure, I get that Disney needed to protect their investment but at the same time, there had to be a way to make this more amicable for the creator. It's not a good look to have the creator getting on TV saying, essentially he got screwed.

I don't know if there is a magic bullet to fix all over this but I know that it seems like GL feels like he made a mistake selling and that is never good PR.

Someone here mentioned Marvel here and that is an example where the creators didn't feel slighted with the direction that Disney decided to go in with their properties. I certainly have never seen Stan Lee on TV blasting Disney, post the sale...I know it isn't 1:1 as Stan Lee wasn't the owner of Marvel but you still want a unified front in situations like this.

Having the creator on TV saying, essentially he doesn't agree with the direction of the films and thinks the latest entry is retro...well, it's my opinion that is the opposite of what you want if you're Disney...so why not try and make him feel more comfortable through the process so when he goes and does a Charlie Rose interview, he is towing the line of unity?

 

[Agent Unknown]

I do feel a bit bad for Lucas as it's his baby and it's obviously been much harder for him to let go than he thought it'd be (I think he even said himself in that long Washington Post interview part of the reason he sold the rights was because he wasn't finding it as fun to do anymore and has been wanting to do his endlessly stated "experimental" films, whenever that happens). But as has been said before many times, he has nobody but himself to blame but himself at this point for selling the rights.

Also, as much as I love Lucas and despite their flaws for the most part enjoyed the prequels (especially Ep III), those movies and their ultimate success were hurt badly by his more hardheaded, inflexible qualities and to me, TFA and Disney, JJ and Kennedy having to finally say, "No, sorry George, we love and respect you but we're in charge now and we need to give the fans something that reflects their desires and feelings too" not to mention TFA breaking a billion dollars so quickly has all been well deserved comeuppance. I have always liked Lucas, he's a visionary, he seems like a good guy and a kind man who really loves his family and seems sincere about wanting to produce quality family entertainment. But when he screws up, it's epic and embarrassing, the series is now better without him because he refuses to learn from his mistakes.

And maybe I'm misreading the events in the lead up to TFA before and after the sale, but it seems to me maybe part of the problem was Disney should have been a bit more upfront and clear to him from the start, especially after the right were sold that ultimately, they would be doing their own thing with the story. I think they led him on a bit and should have cut the cord a bit quicker instead of being like "Oh yeah, sure George, o ahead and write an outline and maybe we'll like it and even use a good portion of it" when obviously they had no intention of that (and with good reason). Also, that Gamespot feature on Lucasarts and the are-you-kidding-me moment between Lucas and the devs where he suggested "Darth Icky" and "Darth Insanius" as actual Sith names with a fraught face is not just a weird story but also really telling of how mentally detached and tone deaf he is at this point.

This thread and the accompanying video talks about the problems with the production:

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1142576

The whole estate thing is because like what was said, they are extremely protective, didn't like the adaptations and were also(probably the biggest reason) pissed about the money situation. After all when Hollywood accountants get done, there is magically never any profit. So the Tolkien estate, from what I can gather, has seen very little from the studios and has been tied up in lawsuits for years.

Thanks for the info and clarification, appreciate it.

 

[Savitar]

I bet they eventually will reboot the whole thing.

Eventually. It'll happen. The demand will be there.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Eventually. It'll happen. The demand will be there.

There is demand for it right now. For me and a couple friends, at the very least.

 

[Tedesco!]

That and Maz mentioning the Sith are the only references to the PT I caught, and I've seen TFA twice.

The novelization also mentions a Dug.

 

[Savitar]

There is demand for it right now. For me and a couple friends, at the very least.

I know and I almost said as much.

But if the next few movies are good stuff and come out right, well the demand will be higher.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Canon yes, I feel they've not been acknowledged for fear of tainting the new movies though, either that or there so little of interest to take from them.

The Clone Wars still carries plenty of interest. Hell the primary Star Wars characters on Disney Infinity 3.0 are Anakin (Clone Wars design) and Ahsoka.

 

[Soul_Pie]

The thing about the prequel trilogy was there were some good ideas in it, but I think Lucas was so out of touch in terms of filmmaking, he was probably rusty as fuck at that point so his first priority should have been to surround himself with the best talent at his disposal and not just a bunch of yes men and sycophants who never make good movies. Like with everyone your talents can decline over years of not using them, and the only thing he'd done recently from a creative standpoint is put cgi crap over classic star wars scenes. He hadn't directed a movie in over two decades and it showed

But yeah, you had a pretty good story arc for Anakin there if it had been done right. You've got a guy basically forcibly removed from his home at a young age which could lead to some bitterness, the jedi try to stop him using his powers to stop his mother being killed and have done nothing to help her even though she was enslaved, he's not allowed to love as a young man and he's not allowed to feel any attachment which basically goes against every human emotion. It's not easy to make a bloody good story around that if you wanted to but it was just a dismal failure and instead of being a character study and a study of differing philosophies it become a complete and utter mess.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

It'd be a shame if they ignored they ignored most of the PT cause the PT has the best ideas in the entire series.

 

[Fj0823]

The Clone Wars still carries plenty of interest. Hell the primary Star Wars characters on Disney Infinity 3.0 are Anakin (Clone Wars design) and Ahsoka.

And kids today are watching Rebels wich takes a LOT from the prequels and The Clone Wars.

The idea of taking the prequels out of canon to satisfy a vocal portion of the fanbase while pissing off a younger more profitable one is just stupid...

Hey little guys do you like The Clone Wars and Rebels? Wanna buy Ezras saberblaster? Tough shit. Old guys didn't like them so they no longer count. Buy Obi-Wans saber again or something...

Best way to do it? Make the best of the whole canon. Make great movies with all the rich lore you now have, everyone gets spin off movies in their favorite eras.

"bu bu bu but prequel stench!!!",

"Fuck off. The movie is good"

 

[ryutaro's mama]

It'd be a shame if they ignored they ignored most of the PT cause the PT has the best ideas in the entire series.

It's nice to have opinions.

 

[bill0527]

Well, sure, I get that Disney needed to protect their investment but at the same time, there had to be a way to make this more amicable for the creator. It's not a good look to have the creator getting on TV saying, essentially he got screwed.

George got 4 billion dollars worth of amicable.

If he's bitter because he was shut out of the creative process, he should have negotiated something in the sale, or not sold it at all. George screwed George.

I really have a hard time feeling sorry for the guy in any capacity at all. I'll always appreciate that the original Star Wars was entirely his vision and his risk to take. But George always worked best when he was collaborating, with Kershner, Larry Kasdan, even his first wife Marcia Lucas, his editor. And lets not forget Spielberg on Indiana Jones. This was George at his best. George at his worst was prequel era George. At some point in his career - probably when he decided to do the prequel trilogy, he decided he was going to do everything alone and stop collaborating.

I don't know what he was thinking. If he's actually bitter and thinks this is some kind of divorce... why the hell did he sell? His comparisons of this to a divorce are quite honestly, scary. Divorce is something negative that is almost always precipitated by one side of a marriage. Did he honestly think Disney, at some point would come begging for his input because they wouldn't be able to figure out how to make a decent Star Wars movie without him? Like Disney is going to give him 4 billion dollars for everything, but he was still going to get to make the movies?

I see nothing out of him but bitterness, sour grapes, and partial delusional tendencies at the end of that Charlie Rose interview.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

It'd be a shame if they ignored they ignored most of the PT cause the PT has the best ideas in the entire series.

Great ideas that are trapped in a terrible web of mistakes. Still, making some films set back in the time of the prequels would cool.

 

[Kalentan]

At some point in his career - probably when he decided to do the prequel trilogy, he decided he was going to do everything alone and stop collaborating.

Wrong, he actually approached various directors, even Steven Speilberg, to direct the Prequels. He didn't want to direct them himself.

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

At this point he's just another asshole with an opinion. He's welcome to his, goddamn he's earned it. It's us that should be moving on, this is only headlines because we're still upset about the prequels being sadly flawed. Thanks for everything, George.

 

[Anth0ny]

Disney should just redo the PT and de-canonize the Lucas films.

Call it "the Real Vader story"

Agreed.

Clearly it can be done. Go back and "fix" the old films. George Lucas would be proud.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

George got 4 billion dollars worth of amicable.

I covered several times in this thread that seems (from his reaction) money was secondary for him when it came to feeling respected.

Dude was a wealthy man LONG before selling SW.

Starting you post out with this line in response to what I wrote seems to miss that.

 

[petethepanda]

I'm not torn up that Lucas isn't making them anymore (though he gets far too much hate) but I'm curious as hell about what his original plans were. At the very least, he's not kidding about making the PT different than the OT, and the thing that disappointed me most about TFA is how intensely safe and OTish it was. You gotta at least recognize Lucas' balls for not giving people "what they want."

 

[DrForester]

Agreed.

Clearly it can be done. Go back and "fix" the old films. George Lucas would be proud.

Watching his Episode 1 ideas, I don't like the idea of there being any romantic interest between Obi-Won and Padme.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I'm not torn up that Lucas isn't making them anymore (though he gets far too much hate) but I'm curious as hell about what his original plans were.

He talked about it briefly in the interview. His 7-9 would have focused on the teenaged kids of Luke and Leia/Han vs. <Baddie>. He wanted it to be all about the grandchildren of Anakin.

At the very least, he's not kidding about making the PT different than the OT, and the thing that disappointed me most about TFA is how intensely safe and OTish it was. You gotta at least recognize Lucas' balls for not giving people "what they want."

I disagree. You have to know your audience and taking the "fuck you, you'll take what I make and like it" approach is a quick way to shed fans.

Balls =/= fucking over your diehard fans.

 

[Anth0ny]

Watching his Episode 1 ideas, I don't like the idea of there being any romantic interest between Obi-Won and Padme.

I'm not saying what he suggests is genius, but his suggestions at least make the prequels watchable imo. Lots of simple ideas that work. The prequels are so fucking flawed that things like making Maul a primary antagonist for the entire trilogy goes a long way.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Agreed.

Clearly it can be done. Go back and "fix" the old films. George Lucas would be proud.

Man, those were the most obnoxious YouTube videos I have ever seen. I think insufferable is becoming synonymous with star wars fandom.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Nah, this mindset is some contrived entitelement crap. He doesnt owe anyone anything. People forked out billions of dollars from their pockets out of their own free will. He told a story starting in the 70s not giving a shit about what audiences wanted, he didn't need to in the future. That his first three star wars movies were successful is incidental.

It's a 2 way street. If a content maker starts making shit I don't like, I will take my business elsewhere. As evidenced by the money TFA is making, I would say giving your customer what they want can be extremely profitable.

 

[Cybit]

No he is 100% correct.

You don't set valuations based on a 40 year period, you want an ROI in ~10 years on an investment like this, which means ~7-10% annual ROI. Also worth noting that this is profit, not revenue that you are looking for, so that would cut your valuation figures in half right off the bat(assuming insane profit margins even).

$4 billion may have been a slight discount(especially when you consider that it isn't just Star Wars, but all of Lucasfilm, including Indiana Jones), but it would have been completely foolish for anyone to pay $20b for it.

I probably would have valued it at $5-6b, but any potential buyer also has to have the funding (and ideas and people) ready to make successful films. Its not like this is just a thing that you buy and it passively prints money, it is a thing that you buy that requires you to dump even more money into the machine to get a return.

He is 100% wrong. That is an asinine valuation for a company like Disney buying a franchise (and all of the other parts that come with Lucasfilm) such as Star Wars, and I hope to god you never have to do actual valuation. Heck, Marvel pre Avengers / second-half Marvel Cinematic Universe was 4 billion.

http://www.newsarama.com/24999-disney-s-4-billion-marvel-buy-was-it-worth-it.html

As for Star Wars...

Yes, that's the meaningless calculated on paper value of a company no one would pay for it because you want to make money with a franchise and not break even in decades.

Actually....

they could reasonably have done that

http://www.wired.com/2015/12/disney-star-wars-return-on-investment/

In January, a relaunched Star Wars comic book from Marvel sold almost a million units (remember, Disney owns Marvel, too). That&#8217;s only about, oh, 25 times more than the final Star Wars issue published by Dark Horse Comics a mere seven months prior. And then along came Force Friday.

The rollout of more than 100 new Star Wars toys was a cultural phenomenon, with a huge bottom line. Toy sales between Force Friday and the end of the year should reach $2 billion in retail sales. At an approximate $1 billion wholesale, and with Disney&#8217;s estimated royalty rate of 15 percent, that&#8217;s a lot of cheddar for the Mouse.

&#8220;For just toys, just through the end of this year, $150 million in royalties to Disney is a massive number,&#8221; says Marc Mostman, a partner at Striker Entertainment, an entertainment-focused licensing and merchandising agency. &#8220;This is a beast. I can&#8217;t wait to see where else it will go.&#8221;

Marty Brochstein, a senior VP at LIMA, the global trade organization for companies in the licensing business, says Force Friday was but a breeze in the forthcoming Star Wars merchandising windfall.

&#8220;Force Friday was unprecedented,&#8221; he says. &#8220;Think about this: This was a promotion, for the launch of a product line, not the movie! And it was brilliant. But what that did was focus the attention of the collectors. The more traditional merchandise rush is four to six weeks before the movie, where the mainstream really comes in. The casual fan or the child who really doesn&#8217;t know Star Wars yet is just starting to buy the merchandise in the stores.&#8221;

Mind you, this is before the movie came out, and we didn't know if the movie was actually, well, good. 150 million, in a year, in licensing alone.

&#8220;That $4 billion is a large chunk of change,&#8221; Robbins says, &#8220;but more than likely, we think Disney will make half that back on this movie alone once you figure in all the revenue streams.&#8221; And will there be more down the line? These are the dividends you&#8217;re looking for. (Some analysts are already predicting Disney could reap $500 million in revenue next year from Star Wars products alone.)

 

[opoth]

It's a 2 way street. If a content maker starts making shit I don't like, I will take my business elsewhere. As evidenced by the money TFA is making, I would say giving your customer what they want can be extremely profitable.

I am usually a proponent of giving the fan what they need vs "what they want".

In the case of TFA, the debts of the PT had to be paid first. Fans are getting what they want first, otherwise they wouldn't be interested enough to show up for what they "need" next time. Yes, certain tropes of the OT are being revisited in this film. You're not Roger Ebert for recognizing that fact.

Its sort of like everyone knows that one guy who complains about Obama for no concrete reason - and my response to them is, you'd never have seen Obama in your lifetime if Bush hadn't screwed up so badly. TFA is the Obama Star Wars movie and I happen to love it. Controversial in some ways but a necessary step to move forward.

 

[DrForester]

I'm not saying what he suggests is genius, but his suggestions at least make the prequels watchable imo. Lots of simple ideas that work. The prequels are so fucking flawed that things like making Maul a primary antagonist for the entire trilogy goes a long way.

Oh certainly. I fully agree with him about Darth Maul needing to survive Episode 1 and have been saying that Obi-Won being out for revenge was a great story arc that was abandoned in the film.

Also love the idea about increasing the role of Owen Lars.

 

[Warm Machine]

I'm not saying what he suggests is genius, but his suggestions at least make the prequels watchable imo. Lots of simple ideas that work. The prequels are so fucking flawed that things like making Maul a primary antagonist for the entire trilogy goes a long way.

The problem is that it is easy to see how established elements could be moved or leveraged for more appeal. It was creating those elements in the first place that took the creative leap. No one would have thought up Darth Maul or Pod Racing or Clones Storm Troopers and what have you if Lucas didn't do it to start with. It is like pulling brussel sprouts out of a prepared gourmet meal and then telling the chef you made the perfect meal.