But was the original Major so extremely Asian looking in the first place? I think Scarlett fits nicely with how the first movie looked.
here we go again.
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Ghost In The Shell (2017) Trailer
- Thread starter ezekial45
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here we go again.
Whitewashing would be less of an issue if they Edge of Tomorrow'd it and gave it some of its own Western flair and personality. They could have brought their own unique vision to the property rather than aping Japanese aesthetics and yet again, giving us Scarlett Johansson as audience-surrogate for an exotic, foreign metropolis. Even if it's not free of its own issues, at least Lost in Translation ties it into its narrative and themes.
So I figured it would be fun to recut the trailer to Wamdue Project's "King of my Castle" as an homage to the old music video. It's pretty hard to make the frantic first trailer for the movie fit to the more mellow song and it doesnt really fit...but I figured it would be a fun exercise anyway 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKrxRdhtoZo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKrxRdhtoZo
True Savior
Member
So I figured it would be fun to recut the trailer to Wamdue Project's "King of my Castle" as an homage to the old music video. It's pretty hard to make the frantic first trailer for the movie fit to the more mellow song and it doesnt really fit...but I figured it would be a fun exercise anyway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKrxRdhtoZo
The trailer scenes definitely lack the movement for the type of song.
No one would be interested in that movie. The only reason anyone is excited for this is because its chanelling the aesthetic HARD. People didn't attack Edge of Tomorrow because, aside from being awesome, it was based on a light novel that hardly anyone even in Japan gave a shit about.
This dude made a short critique of the trailer, as to why he doesn't like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-mqcTjnvYA
Some extrapolations but also good points which some stuff I haven't catched before and makes me slightly more worried
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-mqcTjnvYA
Some extrapolations but also good points which some stuff I haven't catched before and makes me slightly more worried
So good!
PdotMichael
Banned
lol, you mean turning characters who came from all places of the world into an all white cast?
BudokaiMR2
Member
Have you actually looked at the cast?
The movie is not an all white cast. At least keep your critique in line with reality. The leads are white, but otherwise it's a fairly diverse cast for a big tent Hollywood movie. Whether the majority of them get actual meaningful roles in he film is obviously yet to be seen.
PdotMichael
Banned
dat western flair! Japan has a lot to learn.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Original concept: Ruthless cyborg who is a master of manipulating the technology of the day operates in a corrupt political system but is still driven by the "ghost" that is her human conscience.
Trailer: What am I, they made me this way, must remember my past, kill kill kill.
Stairouais
Member
PatThePassive
Member
I subscribe to the interpretation that 95 Motoko can be played by Scar Jo (Would prefer someone that resembles motokos facial structure more)
Motoko and Puppet Master being identical is intentional.
And when she sees her self, and a huge portion of the movie is her doubting if she is herself or programmed to think shes herself etc.
Compared to the next entry into the series by Oshii with Geisha bots.
Although In innocence the Geisha's look somewhat similar but with added uncanny
Its clearly inspired the most from the 95 movie so Scar Jo being cast as Motoko isn't the slight I think most are making it out to be.
The bigger issue is the cyborg gore we are going miss out on with its rating.
I've been following the news for this movie pretty closely so I'm well aware that they have Japanese actors for the rest of their outfit, Section 9 or whatever it'll be called here. My critique is in line with how they've decided to showcase their film in this trailer which for most people serves as their first exposure. Obviously how the film actually is remains to be seen, but my impression so far is that it continues the trend of Asian people getting no roles of substance in American film and television as well as the white perspective in which we're expected to view the world they depict, consequently othering the people which inhabit this fascinating world. I'd love to be proven wrong on both accounts when the film releases, really. For better or for worse I look forward to seeing the final product because you're right, I am dabbling in conjecture.
Style over substance, always a reliable draw.
It wouldn't look as jarring as only giving white people the role of protagonist, side-kick, and villain imo. The decision to keep it in Japan feels superficial and I doubt they'll have much to say about the setting which previous works haven't covered. But who knows, maybe they'll prove me wrong. Hell, I'd love to eat some crow this instance.
PatThePassive
Member
The side kick Batou in the TV series (is half Japanese?) served in the Rangers before he joined the JGSDF then section 9 and blond since the manga. In the manga and movies I don't believe they went into details like for most.
The Villain? (puppet master) in the 95 movie was white or really heavily influenced by his movie before Angels Egg.
Unless its Kuze and then they are butchering him altogether which sucks.
If my memory is correct the city is based on a skyline of a city in china and the TV series focused on the setting not the movies if I remember correct (haven't seen Innocence in a while).
funkystudent
Member
Saw the trailer.
I think it's nailing the look. I'll be happy with a half decent movie. Not the biggest fan of the original but I think theyou could make a decent movie from those themes.
Oh and ScoJo in that body suit. Sweat.gif
I think it's nailing the look. I'll be happy with a half decent movie. Not the biggest fan of the original but I think theyou could make a decent movie from those themes.
Oh and ScoJo in that body suit. Sweat.gif
More Fun To Compute
Member
The manga is explicitly set in Japan and has a lot of political stuff but the aesthetic of the city scape in the movie was based on HK. When the movie was made HK wasn't part of China.
On this topic, I've recently watched the 1995 movie and it did kind of bother me how the movie never actually acknowledges it takes place in Hong Kong, despite it clearly looking like it.
The new movie takes this a step further by being (partially) filmed in Hong Kong, pretending it's set in Japan and having a largely white cast.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Cyberpunk is all style over substance. Like it's considered the genre standard to tart up American cities to look Japanese because Japan was the shocking new technological nation in the 70s. Hong Kong looked exciting to the Japanese who made the movie in the 90s so Japan suddenly looked like Hong Kong. If you don't like the jarring fakery of cutting up realistic imagery and playing around with it then you don't like Cyberpunk. There is nothing less Cyberpunk than authentic or believable Cyberpunk.
It's not a big deal mind you, and I actually love Cyberpunk, but The 1995 GITS movie took it much further than "Japan suddenly looking like Hong Kong". My point is that the movie clearly takes place in Hong Kong and not Japan, but they just kind of ignore that. For example, this shot:
That's pretty clearly one of the Star Ferry boats, which are a pretty distinct Hong Kong thing mentioned in pretty much every guide book. Including this and saying it's Japan is a bit like including the Eiffel tower in your movie and saying it's set in Germany. And then there's shots like this:
Showing signage that is distinctly Chinese due to the lack of katakana/hiragana. This is especially relevant since the new movie does include, and prominently at that, signs with katakana in them. And, of course, the final shot of the movie makes it pretty explicit that it's Hong Kong
Like the Star Ferry, the distinct island/mainland split is one of the more distinct features of Hong Kong.
There's basically nothing that evokes Japan in the movie, not even a single mention of it taking place there (unlike the other GITS adaptations) but plenty of things that bring Hong Kong to mind. I would have loved it if the movie acknowledged it more, especially since anime set in real countries outside of Japan is so rare. It would have been nice if it was actually set outside of Japan, even if it would make it rather non canon to the franchise as a whole.
5olid_5nake
Member
Loved the mood and the style of the trailer, but hated music and actors. So far it's a mixed bag for me. If it's good, awesome, if not, I can always watch original GITS for the 1312411th time.
Can Crusher
Banned
Looks good and shit at the same time.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
GITS takes place in the fictional Japanese city of Niihama, Niihama Prefecture (New Port City, but that doesn't mean the design couldn't be inspired by a real world setting. Oshii has stated in interviews that he referenced Hong Kong to realize his vision of the city.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Seems a bit unfair to compare the original concept to a Hollywood movie's first teaser. It's not like that concept is really conveyed in the first trailers for the anime's original English release either.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I don't agree with this sort of defence because it assumes the trailer is either deliberately misleading people about the content of the film or that not much thought is put into the presentation of movie trailers. It's more likely that this is a copy of a copy of a copy and it's not quite clear what it is copying any more.
I'm well aware of that. However, your own qoute states that "Takeuchi Atsushi noted that while the film does not have a chosen setting ...". So while the manga has a clearly defined setting, the movie isn't as specific. From what I've seen of SAC and the manga, the setting takes much, much less from Hong Kong and much more from Japan than the movie does.
And that's sort of the thing. GITS takes place in Japan, but the movie takes so much from Hong Kong that, had the character names not been Japanese I would never even think it takes place in Japan.
What is the point of this? Rupert Sanders is not going to make a film equal to Oshii's. I've seen many of the scenes in this trailer already, in the original film. Seeing it again, in live action, handled by lesser talents, is not a draw.
Much rather the budget for this went to a new animation project for Oshii. I can't imagine what he could do with full control and a large budget today, but it could be fantastic, which this has utterly no chance of being.
Much rather the budget for this went to a new animation project for Oshii. I can't imagine what he could do with full control and a large budget today, but it could be fantastic, which this has utterly no chance of being.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Entirely possible, but I think you're also putting a little too much stock in a movie's first trailer to give you the full context of the film's deeper meaning. It could be that Major's identity reflection (something totally present in the other adaptations) is only one element of the movie, and they decided to focus on that for this teaser because it's easier to convey to, and emotionally connect with an audience unfamiliar with the material. Again, go back and watch the English trailers for the original anime. I wouldn't get any of the original concept you described from them.
Wait...Rupert Sanders is directing this?? Welp.
It'll be visually faithful and striking at least.
I'm ambivalent about the Major's casting. On one hand an unknown actress would have been perfect, but of course for obvious financial reasons that wasn't going to happen. On the other hand is not really that much of a stretch that in the future lonely cibernetics scientists were going to make their female cyborgs to look like freaking Scarlett Johansson.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
While true regarding anime, Ghost in the Shell has Asian looking characters, you can tell who is Asian
Both Major and her partner regardless of their names etc look different, facial structure is different and skin tone is different.
And GitS has a multiracial cast anyway and gave the impression there wasn't just one race living in that city
I think who they choose for the movie fits the characters, Scar being the one that some times she does and sometimes she just Scar
As a Long time fan I had no trouble believing they was those characters, in fact I think they hit it right on the head.
reasons that apparently have little to do with reality.
The One Who Knocks
Member
I've the same feeling. I've just seen the original movie (actually because of the trailer and the high praise the original had here) and I felt that while some of the themes presented, atmosphere, and visuals were quite interesting, the movie as the sum of its parts just wasn't that good; the trailer has an incredible visual look and while some of it is rather odd, I think it could really benefit from the remake. I'm quite optimistic about it, as you say even a decent movie would justify it.
Barkley's Justice
Member
Wtf? Does Oshii get any co-directing credit on this movie or what??
Comfort Jones
Banned
Serious question what sort of location is this:
supposed to even be? Like there's water at foot level and a bunch of signs, is this supposed to be an area people ever actually walk through? What is its function? Sewage? The water looks totally clean.
Genuinely ignorant as to whether or not there are places like that irl.
supposed to even be? Like there's water at foot level and a bunch of signs, is this supposed to be an area people ever actually walk through? What is its function? Sewage? The water looks totally clean.
Genuinely ignorant as to whether or not there are places like that irl.
Any city after heavy rain?
TheGameshark
Member
I think it's an alley. Pretty sure a lot of the imagery was inspired by the Kowloon Walled city which was a massive condensed slum that had a bunch of little shops with signs and very little room to walk.
Nice! The soundtrack will be sublime at least
shattyboombatty
Member
I subscribe to the interpretation that 95 Motoko can be played by Scar Jo (Would prefer someone that resembles motokos facial structure more)
Motoko and Puppet Master being identical is intentional.
And when she sees her self, and a huge portion of the movie is her doubting if she is herself or programmed to think shes herself etc.
Compared to the next entry into the series by Oshii with Geisha bots.
Although In innocence the Geisha's look somewhat similar but with added uncanny
Its clearly inspired the most from the 95 movie so Scar Jo being cast as Motoko isn't the slight I think most are making it out to be.
The bigger issue is the cyborg gore we are going miss out on with its rating.
woah, I never really noticed they were basically the same. I always got the impression they were just similar generic robot models, but like you said, you can tell it's probably intentionally the same.
Excluding the water (which is just flooding after heavy rainfall I guess) there's plenty of places in Hong Kong that look pretty similar, particularly in Kowloon. Mong Kok and Tsim Sha Tsui are the most well known examples, but similar scenes can be found all over Hong Kong. Something like this for instance:
The placement of the signs in the GITS shot doesn't make the most sense since you couldn't really see them when walking along the street (as opposed to the signs in the real world example), but it's close enough.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Uh huh holy shit. I'm in just for the score and visuals then.
Comfort Jones
Banned
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
But it's true, the actor's chosen look like the original anime film characters and I don't see the problem because of that.
People keep referencing the purple haired Major From the later series which yes looks more Asian and looks completely different.
The opening in the trailer when she wearing the goggles, that what Major looks like
Batou look fantastic yet I heard people say he has been whitewashed...?
Like what!?
I suppose they could have gotten another Agent of Shield (Chloe Bennet) to play Major
would that had been a better?
UnemployedVillain
Member
But it's true, the actor's chosen look like thr original anime film characters
People keep referencing the purple haired Major From the later series which yes looks more Asian and looks completely different.
The opening in the trailer when she wearing the goggles, that what Major looks like
Batou look fantastic yet I heard people say he has been whitewashed...?
Like what!?
I suppose they could have gotten another Agent of Shield (Chloe Bennet) to play Major
would that had been a better?
Name anyone who's said that? When the movie was announced people were asking for Ron Pearlman as Batou. I don't think I've heard many complaints about him being whitewashed.
And Chloe Bennet's dad is Chinese American. Is that what you were getting at?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Youtubers dude I've seen people complain about the whole cast
Ron Pearlman would have been a great Batou too
And yes I know her dad is Chinese American
I like the girl myself so I wouldn't have minded her being Major actually
But I think Scarlet atleast in thr trailer is more of a match to the original Major From GITS
lightskintwin
Banned
Youtubers dude I've seen people complain about the whole cast
And yes I know her dad is Chinese American
I like the girl myself so I wouldn't have minded her being Major actually
But I think Scarlet atleast in thr trailer is more of a match to the original Major From GITS
I think Japan and the Japanese creators and owners of the IP prefer Scarlett Johansson in the role. LOL
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