But then think of all the ridiculous conclusions we wouldn't be jumping to!
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GI.biz: "Wii U less powerful than PS3, Xbox 360, developers say"
- Thread starter Hoo-doo
- Start date
But then think of all the ridiculous conclusions we wouldn't be jumping to!
Thunder Monkey
Banned
And all the sexy ones we would.
DCharlie
Banned
It's baffling though - Nintendo are making a name for themselves again by NOT playing into the spec game. The Wii U will be defined by new ideas - i for one am happy with that.
I don't know why a lot of Nintendo fans are suddenly agast at the thought the next machine might not be a technical power house in the traditional GPU/CPU sense. If it is, all the better, but it being in the "current gen-ish" bracket isn't a disaster.
It's weird - i feel i'm trotting out the "Nintendo defense" preemptively and i feel like Nintendo fans are the ones firing they annoyance with that, yet i fully expect post reveal for them to start wheeling out the exact same lines.
Maybe i'm missing something - strict Nintendo fans : are you convinced that the Wii U is going to be a certain significant x-factor above current gen?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
It is an easy concept to understand though. They want to have access to it all. Humans are greedy like that. If they don't have to do much to get it all they'll do it that way. If the hardware power of the WiiU means even approximations of Fusion/PS4 games can't come that limits them.
And humans are like caged apes. We want out. We want freedom. Humans want the same, in a completely self-indulgent way.
It's pretty easy to be persuaded when it comes to hardware specs or graphical fidelity. If they show incredible graphics, they show incredible graphics.
Has this been deemed as a joke yet? The writing was terrible in the quotes the OP had and I can bet my ass that they weren't from the mouth of any competent developer.
"graphics aren't as powerful" wtf
Yes but we prefer to believe as if were true to hear fanboys freaking out and going into passive aggressive sarcastic defense force mode
Poimandres
Member
Yeah, I was including handhelds. Go back any further and things were different. I thought the Gamecube was a great piece of technology for the time. Small, tidy, capable, cheap. I was shocked that people were prepared to pay more for the PS2 than the Cube.
I see your point, but I don't really buy into the publics perception of over/under powered. I make up my own mind based on price point, and perceived technological value. If the Wii U is half the price and half the power of the PS4, yeah, I could understand that. I guess we'll see how next gen shapes up.
I think the Neo Geo thing is pretty off the mark. The 360 and PS3 are outselling the Wii worldwide now, which is not a position the Neo Geo was ever in. Nintendo won the war this generation, but it wasn't really a clean victory.
What if... the Wii U is on a PS360 level, and Sony/MS decide to keep those consoles on the market as well as their successors? Wii U/PS3/360 releases, and seperate PS4/720 games. Does everyone win in that situation?
I think it will be some level above current gen, in order to get the streaming to the controller to work in certain situations while the game is being rendered simultaneously on system for the TV (though I don't anticipate every game will do that). Also, I feel that based off what the Darksiders devs were saying in addition to Epic's comments (as well as the tech demos we saw), it is at least somewhat in the range of the current batch of systems, maybe better.
But how much? I don't think it's significant. And I honestly don't care.
DCharlie
Banned
everyone is still under NDA so they're just not using real sentences to throw the Luigi Ninja's off the scent
this and this! It's a significant step up from the Wii and that's the main thing - Nintendo will be behind the curve but ANOTHER machine launch coming up? Oh come to Papa Charlie! And here's the thing - it's going to be "different" enough to be entertaining. That's ALL that matters.
Again - i can't help feel i'm preempting arguments we'll see post E3. It's in a certain tech space that ultimately is acceptable in a worst case scenario and will certainly be good enough to enjoy. Bring on <whevener in 2012>. I'm in !
Yep.
But at the same time fault can't be placed solely on "Nintendo fans". Usually, what makes this-similar threads longer is that there are those "non-Nintendo fans", swearing they always liked Nintendo and acting as if the Wii U been "less powerful" is this shocking horrible news, that ruined their plans for the next generation of consoles.
Or that they want an "on par console with next-gen" for the sake of either buying just one console or as a "I knew it, Nintendo owns ya!!" kind of deal.
As you said, any "Nintendo fan" is going to be happy no matter what. Zelda, Mario, many other exclusives too. Those that are acting shocked and dissapointed were either lying to themselves or just posting hyperboles for the sake of it.
As for the "strict Nintendo fan" question, don't know. I love Nintendo, but don't considered myself such a fan..even less when I've been banned from here for "trolling Nintendo"; or by telling someone not go cry in a corner because Kinect was going to do well (before the release of Kinect). XD
I will say that there will be stuff that is more powerful, but not stuff that going or could be used during the quoting wars that sometimes ensue over here.
As you said, I'll be happy with Nintendo games and for Halo, Gran Turismo and God of War I'll get the other consoles too.
And why is the second quote answering to the first one? It's like they work together or something...
Everyone except all the other devs speaking openly about the platform? And why would they mask the authors in a way that makes them sound mentally challenged?
everyone is still under NDA so they're just not using real sentences to throw the Luigi Ninja's off the scent
Everyone except all the other devs speaking openly about the platform? And why would they mask the authors in a way that makes them sound mentally challenged?
DCharlie
Banned
no one has talked about specifics yet - NDA's are still there. Everyone is being "fluffy" for a reason.
it's the "concern troll" thing - 3DS gets it, ipad gets it, Vita gets it, Wii U gets it, PS4 and X720 will get it. A lot of people are upset about certain facets of a companies platform that they really don't care about. There's a lot of shitty about these "debates" for sure. Not that i'm painting myself as a paragon of sainthood - i've bitched out Nintendo as much as anyone and moaned over and over about them time and time again, but ultimately i'll be there day one no matter what (though that is the same for any platform holder)
I apologies for moaning that i wanted the Wii U to be "next gen" but that's a selfish thing rather than a "well it's not good enough so i'm not getting it" thing. I can't prove that of course but hey
journalist: hey what do you think of the wii u, developer guy 1
developer guy 1: doesn't have powerful graphics
journalist: hey developer guy 2, developer guy 1 said the wii u has not powerful graphics, is that true
developer guy 2: yeah, it's true. not enough shaders either
(simplifying it a bit, but i imagine it could have gone along those lines)
Playing devil's advocate, the journalist could have heard something from the first dev and then brought it up when speaking to a second dev, prompting him to respond to the other.
I mean, I agree that parts of this story feel fishy, but it's not hard to imagine this scenario playing out like that.
EDIT: Anihawk!
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
"MORE... MORE... MORE... MORE POWER!"
People trying to focus on this aspect only seem to forget the realities of this current gen: extraordinary development costs, development houses shutting down one after another, and even many of the big publishers/developers are bleeding, which in turn why everyone is turning into shitty DLC practices, various stupid DRMs, war on used sales, and what-have-you.
People trying to focus on this aspect only seem to forget the realities of this current gen: extraordinary development costs, development houses shutting down one after another, and even many of the big publishers/developers are bleeding, which in turn why everyone is turning into shitty DLC practices, various stupid DRMs, war on used sales, and what-have-you.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
But what is impressive?
Running UE3 at higher fidelity than the PS3 or 360 or is it now purely visions of UE4? I think Super Mario Galaxy is impressive. I'm charmed beyond description of the pixel art in the new Castle of Illusion. I think FFIX is a beautiful game!
The tech is less and less a reason for a game to gain the moniker "impressive". The tech can make that same game more impressive, but the core game stays the same.
A common argument is that Assassin's Creed would be impossible on the Wii. The core gameplay could remain unchanged, but technical aspects would inevitably have to change. The reactions to the crowds, the size of the crowds themselves. But climbing? Fighting? The story? I'd wager that more could be salvaged than any would like to admit.
This will undoubtedly be less of an issue for the WiiU, though technical deficiencies could make certain things unlikely. A large focus on tessellation? The WiiU could be very starkly left behind. I doubt poly counts would change much (we already tend to have as many per pixel as we need). Lighting could see a huge change, but I doubt core lighting models will.
I don't see any scenario aside from disappointing software sales that would leave the WiiU in anywhere near as dangerous a position as the Wii was to the PS3/360. And that only time will tell us.
And the best part is that the biggest selling games of the HD consoles and Wii have been relatively graphically modest games like COD and Wii Sports, respectively.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It blows my mind that people are surprised that Nintendo will follow the same strategy that brought them enourmous success with Wii. People thinking the Wii U will be anywhere near the next gen PS4/Durango hardware seem like pie in the sky delusional wishful thinkers hoping that the Nintendo of the SNES era will come back one day.
If by "fluffy" you mean, "sound like a random fanboy blog", then yes, these guys fit the description.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
That idealized Nintendo never existed anyway.
They like Sega, Sony, and MS are out to make money. Some of them just have clearer ideas of how to do so.
COD is relatively modest? Bahahahahhaha! It runs at 60fps and considering that it looks pretty damn good. Wii Sports on the other hand....
Sure COD ain't a Killzone 2 or Uncharted 3 or Gears 3 but "relatively modest" it is not.
DCharlie
Banned
i agree on the whole but i need to ask - with dev houses shutting down as we speak what difference is it going to make if the Wii U is in the same bracket as X360/PS3?
the companies failing are on those platforms so why is Wii U going to help?
I appreciate that next gen will likely raise art asset generation costs, dev costs etc but companies are going under -now- so i'm not sure what Wii U solves other than allow for multiplatform dev to have access to a fan base that perhaps wouldn't have bought their games (due to non-interest in non-nintendo platforms)
yes - i agree they do sound like random fanboy bloggers - so yes, -that- sort of "fluffy"
Compared to juggernauts like Uncharted, Gears of War, God of War, or the like? Yeah, it's like a tier below technically.
(Not to mention they can't even bother to get it to run in HD resolutions on some versions.)
Poimandres
Member
See... now this is taking things too far. Rumours have been floating around that the Wii U will be a nice little bump on top of the current generation, and this seemed to be the prevalent view. But now a rumour comes out that this might not be the case and you expect people not to be somewhat disappointed?
There would be a whole group of Nintendo fans who would think "Oh well, that's a little disappointing, but I'm going to get one for the great games anyway". Hardly what I would call lying to yourself.
i think the general idea was that the three consoles would be close enough in power so that you could get a few million in sales out of a third console. although if ea and activision are pushing microsoft and sony to go sky high with specs, then i guess that throws a wrench in those plans.
ultrazilla
Member
Viral FUD. No new systems from Sony or MS to be shown at
E3. The main focus will be on Nintendo. If you're competition,
you're main attack will be "wait for our systems, Nintendo's is weak,
underpowered, etc"
As has been mentioned a million times already, it will be
capable of doing things current gen systems cannot. Streaming
to tablet, resolutions etc.
The BS FUD will be getting heavy for Nintendo the next couple
of months.
The system will be just fine IMO.
E3. The main focus will be on Nintendo. If you're competition,
you're main attack will be "wait for our systems, Nintendo's is weak,
underpowered, etc"
As has been mentioned a million times already, it will be
capable of doing things current gen systems cannot. Streaming
to tablet, resolutions etc.
The BS FUD will be getting heavy for Nintendo the next couple
of months.
The system will be just fine IMO.
jump_button
Banned
oh god lol say this too like anyone going to buy a vita just to use as a controller its only £200 + £200 more for a ps3 dont think any one should take any of this guy say's, he missing the point of the Wii U that it all in one out of the box
No it won't, cuz GAF says it won't, so it must be true.
But disappointed ...why?
Because of one rumor?
One rumor vs 2-3 non anonymous developers and multiple rumors that say different things.
The same way it could be argued that "Nintendo fans" only believe the positive news-rumors as true, it could be said about the "non-Nintendo fans" believing the negative ones as true.
But aside this one, no one has said that there won't be a "bump"; in fact it has been argued that said "bump" will depend more on how the tablet is used. So, rendering the same image ..twice could translated into "on par" to current gen games, but only doing a 2D map could turn into said "bump" (on first gen games, in a few years or more who knows).
DCharlie
Banned
I don't think the people moaning about specs believe that it won't do "fine" - it's more a question of what the Wii U will be.
It's going to do, at worst, very well.
walking fiend
Member
Do you expect a Wii U which is a console dedicated for processing that can stream to TV/Tablet, to be only as powerful as a $250 Vita?
PS3 lacks streaming functions of Wii U; end of story; maybe PS4?
Pretty much. I'm expecting on par, or maybe a little more powerful than 360/PS3, plus the 480p image on the controller. If they had the balls to just shut out the controller screen entirely for certain games and use the processing power for the TV image alone, it could look a solid amount better than current gen.
But still nowhere near PS4/720.
I'm not convinced of anything. I just dream of being able to own one console again. If Nintendo doesn't release a good machine for third parties, I will miss out on a lot of games unless I dunk another 300-400 down on a console.
The reputable developer comments we've gotten from Vigil and Epic all lead me to believe the WiiU is somewhat more capable than current gen. I can't imagine Epic being all that happy with WiiU if it's sticking with pre-current gen tech. I also refuse to believe that after all the "reaching out" Nintendo has apparently done with third parties, that the wiiU is 2006 tech.
DCharlie
Banned
it's achieved in a different way i assume but how does remote play work?
I'm assuming Wii U is direct streaming to the pad via ... ? and the PS3 does it over Wifi to the PSP/Vita but largely hamstrung unless the PS3 is hacked (?)
the Vita isn't as powerful as the PS3 and i've not seen anyone claim that it was in the same class as the Vita, just in the same class of the PS3/X360.
ultrazilla
Member
Well the inherent problem I see is that since Nintendo will be
the first one out of the gates with a next gen system, it will take
a developer trying to use all it's bells and whistles to show what it
can do. I suspect we will see a ton of ports derived from Ps3/360
builds for the "multi platform" releases so it will be hard to gauge
it's true power until someone pushes it.
Whatever the case, I'm of the opinion it'll have at least 2x the power
of current gen. How that is ultimately shown to us is up to
Nintendo and their third parties obviously.
Nintendo will probably have to prod them to take advantage of
the hardware's feature set.
Tiring but hilarious. I don't think I'd wish a fate like that on any person, actually.
Plus, the weeks before E3 will probably fuel my hunger for chaos and bickering.
You know what? you're absolutely right!
All that wasted potential, down the drain...
Always-honest
Banned
Just have great anti aliassing Nintendo...
If the Dolphin thread proved anything it's that low resolution and jaggies KILL the graphics.
If the Dolphin thread proved anything it's that low resolution and jaggies KILL the graphics.
Me too, but realising I'm buying it day one anyway. Then if the pad is a gimmick I'll just moan about it like I did with the DS until developers calmed down and stopped trying to ram touch and dual screens down our throats and concentrated on the games.
I don't really care if it's a gimmick other than it distracting from the games
Definitely. Bar games coming from massive or massive-funded studios like Activision or Naughty Dog, I'd expect most games to look - underneath whatever tricks, filters and sheen are applied - pretty damn similar to current gen titles.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Stop projecting.
You can't tell me what to do!
You only think you're my real dad!
edit: I need proof before I call someone daddy.
edit2: Or money.
So I assume you've not been in there yourself? If anything we're all pretty rational and realistic. Most us are not expecting a high end powerhouse.
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