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[civilstrife]

Sony knows exactly how not to F*** their customers. ps3 was a great lesson.

Microsoft knows exactly how not to F*** their customers. Games for Windows Live was a great lesson. (Proceeds to release UWP)

Nintendo knows exactly how not to F*** their customers. GameCube was a great lesson. (Proceeds to shit the bed with Wii U after owning the market with Wii)

Failure doesn't inoculate a company against making bad decisions again in the future.

 

[DJ88]

are you kidding? my first post in the thread came after your 14 post campaign to allege a conspiracy of journalistic lying (which you called "a load of bullshit", a "bullshit leak", "flip-flopping", air-quoted the word "documents" because you don't think they exist, that they don't seem "legit", "just noise", "random leaks and hearsays... that don't really make sense", "a million contradictions"), and you're calling me overly invested because you wouldn't take a 10-to-1 bet in your favour (i.e. your confidence in you actually being correct is <10%)--and your reason for declining the bet is a technicality?

bro your pants are around your ankles.

Stage 1: Denial

Holy shit. Too perfect.

 

[farisr]

Honestly I don't know until I see it. It is just niggling me that the differences PS4 and NEO that are being touted are Xbox One>PS4+ improvements when the the GPU gap is much larger in flops and it possibly has the new architecture of Polaris on top.

Most posts that I've seen when talking about the xbox one have been comparing the situations and the quality of ports in general rather than trying to say the power difference between xbox one and ps4, is the same as ps4 vs neo.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

Probably already posted, but for those that missed it:

PS4 Neo Reaction - PS I Love You XOXO Ep. 32

So Colin's reasoning for being upset boils down to "fuck change" ?

This isn't a disaster. Microsoft's 24-hour check-in and no used games DRM shit was a nightmare.

In terms of big industry shakeups this looks like a step in the right direction, and it could even become more serviceable/cheaper for customers once this model is fully adopted.

The format in which hardware has come and gone has been archaic forever now. Games with shit frame rates/graphic whores complaining is about to become a thing of the past.

 

[Mister Megative]

So much truth. I can't wait for Sony's downfall. Dumbasses.

This is quite possibly the dumbest, most childish, banal piece of tripe I've read all day; devoid of logic, intelligence, maturity, and any understanding at all of not just the gaming industry, but consumerism as a whole. Part of my job is to edit people's ridiculous fuckups. Having read back over your toxic contributions to this thread, I now realize there are some forms of stupid so hopelessly devoted to anti-intelligence that they can never be corrected. Your attitude about videogames and the people who make them is absolute garbage.

 

[El_Chino]

So Colin's reasoning for being upset boils down to "fuck change" ?

This isn't a disaster. Microsoft's 24-hour check-in and no used games DRM shit was a nightmare.

In terms of big industry shakeups this looks like a step in the right direction, and it could even become more serviceable/cheaper for customers once this model is fully adopted.

The format in which hardware has come and gone has been archaic forever now. Games with shit frame rates/graphic whores complaining is about to become a thing of the past.

I agree, this is his worst video by far in my opinion.

 

[ALBOFIGHTER]

They should wait until zen Apu is ready whith a nice Polaris gpu and stacked hbm2 memory. Now that would be an amazing upgrade.

I hope Nintendo is at least close to ps4k.

 

[Cidd]

How many threads are we getting about the PS4 Neo?

- This thread

- Digital Foundry: PS4K / Neo spec leak is genuine, dev kits on their way to devs

- Retail Perspective on Iterative Hardware (PS4K, Xbox1.5 etc)

- PS4(non-Neo) owners, what can Sony do, to pacify you to upgrade to Neo?

- How do you feel about the PS4K using the same CPU as the PS4

- Anyone else think Microsoft will blow the "Neo" out of the water spec wise?

- PS4K/Neo Seemingly won't have BDXL (4k disc) support

There are surely more.

No where close to NX threads...

 

[Inuhanyou]

They should wait until zen Apu is ready whith a nice Polaris gpu and stacked hbm2 memory. Now that would be an amazing upgrade.

I hope Nintendo is at least close to ps4k.

This isnt intended to be a PS5, they were never going to change the components to that degree.

As for NX, based on Nintendo's past, fans would be lucky if they got to PS4 level.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Most posts that I've seen when talking about the xbox one have been comparing the situations and the quality of ports in general rather than trying to say the power difference between xbox one and ps4, is the same as ps4 vs neo.

I wasn't trying to bring Xbox in to it just using the example. I'll try again.

Xbox One/PS4 flop difference = ~500GF

PS4/PSNEO flop difference = ~2.4TF (plus possible new architecture)

Now, maybe I'm being unreasonable, but I think a slight increase in resolution (900p vs1080p), a few higher settings and more stable fps or same settings and 60fps vs 30fps just doesn't sound right. The first one is what we see in TP games now with Xbox/PS4.

Surely the differences should be nearer night and day?

 

[On Demand]

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/20800000/Rorschach-watchmen-20859832-500-281.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

Awww.

[quote="BRocknRolla, post: 201485124"]These reactions... Just absolutely the epitome of internet stupidity.

My personal reaction to all this is to see how it all goes. A tic-tock method of releasing consoles is perfectly fine with me. It's plenty in line with how much of the tech industry already handles their product releases, and I see no reason we should bind this particular industry to an old model that may no longer make sense in a world where consoles no longer contain cutting edge tech when they're released. Will I get one? No idea. Will it destroy the industry. Certainly not. Does Sony deserve to crash and burn for a mild experimentation with their business model (one which isn't even a novel idea)? Of course not.[/QUOTE]

A console is not the same as those other devices in the electronics industry. You can't change what has worked fine for years and expect everything to be ok. There's set expectations when you buy one. One of those is definitely not worrying about another one releasing after only 3 years, with the potential of the current version losing all the development focus it would have gotten.

Consoles have never really been about cutting edge tech so i don't know why that even matters. The PS4 has sold 40 million despite its "laptop CPU" and "outdated GPU". The majority clearly doesn't care.


The response to this is not going to be good after they announce it. We are already seeing this.

[quote="Mister Megative, post: 201487074"]This is quite possibly the dumbest, most childish, banal piece of tripe I've read all day; devoid of logic, intelligence, maturity, and any understanding at all of not just the gaming industry, but consumerism as a whole. Part of my job is to edit people's ridiculous fuckups. Having read back over your toxic contributions to this thread, I now realize there are some forms of stupid so hopelessly devoted to anti-intelligence that they can never be corrected. Your attitude about videogames and the people who make them is absolute garbage.[/QUOTE]


Give me a fucking break. Like seriously. You don't like they way i post, put me on ignore.

 

[farisr]

I wasn't trying to bring Xbox in to it just using the example. I'll try again.

Xbox One/PS4 flop difference = ~500GF

PS4/PSNEO flop difference = ~2.4TF (plus possible new architecture)

Now, maybe I'm being unreasonable, but I think a slight increase in resolution (900p vs1080p), a few higher settings and more stable fps or same settings and 60fps vs 30fps just doesn't sound right. The first one is what we see in TP games now with Xbox/PS4.

Surely the differences should be nearer night and day?

Well the FPS issue has more to do with the CPU which hasn't been upgraded much so actually I think people expecting 30fps -> to 60 fps with this are going to be disappointed, but the GPU upgrade is capable of providing a significant improvement, you are right. However, people just trying to be realistic rather than expecting developers to make the most out of this system.

Many developers don't want to do the extra work as they're hard-worked enough as it is, they see no tangible benefit by optimizing code for the ps4neo, so most people are expecting "easily" doable/bare minimum upgrades like a small resolution bump here, more stable framerate there etc rather than them taking full advantage of the hardware.

First party games is where the ps4neo difference in power will really shine. And I also think the bigger developers/publishers will probably optimize for it more.

 

[BRocknRolla]

A console is not the same as those other devices in the electronics industry. You can't change what has worked fine for years and expect everything to be ok. There's set expectations when you buy one. One of those is definitely not worrying about another one releasing after only 3 years, with the potential of the current version losing all the development focus it would have gotten.

You, and many others here are putting Sony into this narrowly defined box, because "That's the way you think it should be." Why should Sony have to be beholden to this business model just because this is the way you like things? If consumers don't want it, they won't buy it. You don't have to buy it. The world is full of products that don't hold their value for 6-8 years. Why should consoles have to be any different, especially given the pace at which tech in this space moves. "I don't want things to change," isn't a cogent response.

Consoles have never really been about cutting edge tech so i don't know why that even matters. The PS4 has sold 40 million despite its "laptop CPU" and "outdated GPU". The majority clearly doesn't care.

So why would the majority care if a new one came out then? Why does more power suddenly matter? Why are you convinced 40 million will suddently be abandoned just because there's a more powerful option? If the majority clearly doesn't care, people won't buy them, and devs won't focus efforts on them. Why would things be any different than they work in the rest of the market?

The response to this is not going to be good after they announce it. We are already seeing this.

The response has been bizarrely violent and intense, I'll give you that. But the amount of actual thought being put into it rather than simple fear mongering, that's a whole other topic.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Well the FPS issue has more to do with the CPU which hasn't been upgraded much so actually I think people expecting 30fps -> to 60 fps with this are going to be disappointed, but the GPU upgrade is capable of providing a significant improvement, you are right. However, people just trying to be realistic rather than expecting developers to make the most out of this system.

Many developers don't want to do the extra work as they're hard-worked enough as it is, they see no tangible benefit by optimizing code for the ps4neo, so most people are expecting "easily" doable/bare minimum upgrades like a small resolution bump here, more stable framerate there etc rather than them taking full advantage of the hardware.

First party games is where the ps4neo difference in power will really shine. And I also think the bigger developers/publishers will probably optimize for it more.

It seems most agree with you. I would be thoroughly disappointed though. To my mind it would be a waste of a 4.2TF GPU.

I guess I'll wait to see the games.

 

[Vashetti]

Not sure what thread to post this in, as there's so many "Neo" threads at the moment.

But, can anyone speculate as to what sort of power consumption we're looking at with the new model?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Not sure what thread to post this in, as there's so many "Neo" threads at the moment.

But, can anyone speculate as to what sort of power consumption we're looking at with the new model?

My guess if 14nm would be 120-140W at the wall. The same or a bit higher than CUH-1200 PS4.

 

[Vashetti]

My guess if 14nm would be 120-140W at the wall. The same or a bit higher than CUH-1200 PS4.

Would that be for games taking specific advantage of Neo features?

For example, old games that don't get patched, would they see a lower wattage compared to how much they drew on the OG PS4 models?

I'd like to see a lower power consumption for media features like Blu-ray playback and Netflix.

The launch PS4 drew ~95 watts for Blu-rays and Netflix, there's no need for that when standard Blu-ray players draw ~15 watts.

 

[family_guy]

So Colin's reasoning for being upset boils down to "fuck change" ?

This isn't a disaster. Microsoft's 24-hour check-in and no used games DRM shit was a nightmare.

In terms of big industry shakeups this looks like a step in the right direction, and it could even become more serviceable/cheaper for customers once this model is fully adopted.

The format in which hardware has come and gone has been archaic forever now. Games with shit frame rates/graphic whores complaining is about to become a thing of the past.

What's even funnier is he's like," I'm still going to buy it anyway." You sure showed Sony Collin.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Would that be for games taking specific advantage of Neo features?

For example, old games that don't get patched, would they see a lower wattage compared to how much they drew on the OG PS4 models?

I'd like to see a lower power consumption for media features like Blu-ray playback and Netflix.

The launch PS4 drew ~95 watts for Blu-rays and Netflix, there's no need for that when standard Blu-ray players draw ~15 watts.

Good questions. I guess if it uses Polaris there may be more eco features. I know that the new Panasonic UHD player uses 26 watts for example, but I think with the best will in the world this new PlayStation will still use quite a bit more because its still also a console.

 

[Chumpion]

My guess if 14nm would be 120-140W at the wall. The same or a bit higher than CUH-1200 PS4.

Shit, I can already hear the jet engine revving up. Perhaps one day... we'll discover an alien technology for spreading thermal paste evenly.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Shit, I can already hear the jet engine revving up. Perhaps one day... we'll discover an alien technology for spreading thermal paste evenly.

It is a bit worrying that PSNEO is said to also be smaller....

 

[Shaneus]

The jump is more significant than your thinking.

A 2x GPU boost and upgrades to bandwidth and CPU will give huge performance advantages, if the XB1 to PS4 differentials which are much smaller are anything to go by.

I wasn't sure that doubling the number of pipelines to a single GPU is equivalent to effectively doubling the power of it. But now I know, and now the only thing I'm sure of is that I don't know where I stand now :/

 

[StarBlazers1]

Saw on twitter rumors that Horizon is delayed until 2017. First casualty of Neo?!

shinobi602
&#8207;@shinobi602

Well...Horizon: Zero Dawn's getting delayed to early 2017 from what I'm told.

Going to look splendid on PS4k though.

 

[Demanufacture]

I wasn't sure that doubling the number of pipelines to a single GPU is equivalent to effectively doubling the power of it. But now I know, and now the only thing I'm sure of is that I don't know where I stand now :/

The GPU bump is good but that CPU is going to be a bottleneck.

 

[Wagram]

I actually missed this part: "Additionally, games released in the late September window will require a day one patch that updates them to NEO standards."

I now have hopes that FFXV will not run like complete dog shit.

 

[Audioboxer]

Saw on twitter rumors that Horizon is delayed until 2017. First casualty of Neo?!

No. If it is delayed it's because it's not going to be ready for any sort of release.

 

[tuxfool]

Saw on twitter rumors that Horizon is delayed until 2017. First casualty of Neo?!

Doubtful. Casualty of game development most likely.

 

[Raist]

are you kidding? my first post in the thread came after your 14 post campaign to allege a conspiracy of journalistic lying (which you called "a load of bullshit", a "bullshit leak", "flip-flopping", air-quoted the word "documents" because you don't think they exist, that they don't seem "legit", "just noise", "random leaks and hearsays... that don't really make sense", "a million contradictions"), and you're calling me overly invested because you wouldn't take a 10-to-1 bet in your favour (i.e. your confidence in you actually being correct is <10%)--and your reason for declining the bet is a technicality?

bro your pants are around your ankles.

Stage 1: Denial

I'm posting on a forum. Sorry for investing too much in GAF.
But I guess insisting on betting money is a lot more reasonable.

 

[TGO]

They should wait until zen Apu is ready whith a nice Polaris gpu and stacked hbm2 memory. Now that would be an amazing upgrade.

I hope Nintendo is at least close to ps4k.

Well we have next year for that with PS4.6

 

[MisterXDTV]

They should wait until zen Apu is ready whith a nice Polaris gpu and stacked hbm2 memory. Now that would be an amazing upgrade.

I hope Nintendo is at least close to ps4k.

For 399$???

I don't think that works

 

[StrongBlackVine]

So much truth. I can't wait for Sony's downfall. Dumbasses.

You have a long wait ahead of you.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

How do you put people on ignore? Been here a while and and never felt the need to before, but I don't want to wade through some of this trash for next 5 or 6 months.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Saw on twitter rumors that Horizon is delayed until 2017. First casualty of Neo?!

Goddamnit Sony. #4TehDelays

 

[AmyS]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/20/shuhei-yoshida-reportedly-unsure-if-there-will-be-a-ps5

IGN: Shuhei Yoshida Reportedly Unsure If There Will Be a PS5

Tell that to.....

 

[Raist]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/20/shuhei-yoshida-reportedly-unsure-if-there-will-be-a-ps5

IGN: Shuhei Yoshida Reportedly Unsure If There Will Be a PS5

He's been saying that sort of stuff for 2 years.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...for-a-ps5-its-really-up-to-the-game-creators/

 

[Averon]

Of course Shu would say that. When you have at least another 3 years worth of PS4s (and now PS4Ks) to sell to consumers, you don't talk about the next best thing until you're ready and after you squeezed as much blood out of that stone as possible.

 

[Bsigg12]

The last few pages of this thread have been like a Republican debate. People slinging shit at each other because the main thing to talk about has been thoroughly discussed and there is no new news, only opinions from forum goers and internet people. It has been incredible.

 

[MCasey]

E3 is going to be so good! I really don't understand why some people are so against this.
Sony is making sure not to split their user base so it's not like your PS4 won't run the same games.
For those complaining about getting the inferior version of the game - you always had the inferior version for most games because the best version was on PC. So is this any different?
And considering it's $400 - don't say you now have to drop another $400 because you can trade in or sell your current console.
Though I wonder if Sony will have an option where you could just buy the box and nothing else. Because if we can use our controllers and other accessories/cables, etc. Maybe that's how they could lower the cost?
I don't know. That might sound stupid, but this situation is unlike any other in the console space so who knows.

 

[freefornow]

How do you put people on ignore? Been here a while and and never felt the need to before, but I don't want to wade through some of this trash for next 5 or 6 months.

Left click their user name and from the drop down box select "Ignore xyz"

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Here's an idea, what if incremental upgrades is not the only thing to come out of this but for example PS5 releasing with 2 models. Gaf would burn

 

[poodaddy]

Kinda hate to admit it but Ill probably buy this. I really shouldn't though....just like I shouldn't of bought that 980 ti for my PC as my 980 was working just fine.

Spoiler

But the power, it takes me

.

 

[sector4]

Whoa!!

I was listening to an older episode of the Beastcast and Vinny totally came up with the code name 'Neo'...

Episode 44 @ 1:00:39

Vinny "Requires PlayStation 4 'Neo'"
Austin "or PlayStation 4.5, yeah Neo, is that what you'd call it?"
Vinny "I don't know"
Austin "What would you call it?"
Vinny "I'd call it a mistake"

So that little convo took place just under a month before the story broke on Giant Bomb that it would be code-named Neo among with other info, am I crazy? or is that a little suss?

 

[Alucrid]

You're crazy

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

@sector4

The original break of the story was by Patrick Klepek on 18th March and shortly after he said there was a code name that he wasn't ready to divulge? so I guess a lot of US based journalists knew the code name for a while.

 

[sector4]

@sector4

The original break of the story was by Patrick Klepek on 18th March and shortly after he said there was a code name that he wasn't ready to divulge? so I guess a lot of US based journalists knew the code name for a while.

That would make sense! Cheers for clearing up.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Saw on twitter rumors that Horizon is delayed until 2017. First casualty of Neo?!

No, PSVR is to blame. :|

Spoiler

Devs said numerous times in interviews, that they would delay to 2017 if they had to. This is the game we pretty much all assumed would see 2017.

 

[kyser73]

They should wait until zen Apu is ready whith a nice Polaris gpu and stacked hbm2 memory. Now that would be an amazing upgrade.

I hope Nintendo is at least close to ps4k.

$800 console isn't going to sell many units.

 

[Metfanant]

They should wait until zen Apu is ready whith a nice Polaris gpu and stacked hbm2 memory. Now that would be an amazing upgrade.

I hope Nintendo is at least close to ps4k.

And sell it for $99.99 while they're at it right?

 

[On Demand]

You, and many others here are putting Sony into this narrowly defined box, because "That's the way you think it should be." Why should Sony have to be beholden to this business model just because this is the way you like things? If consumers don't want it, they won't buy it. You don't have to buy it. The world is full of products that don't hold their value for 6-8 years. Why should consoles have to be any different, especially given the pace at which tech in this space moves. "I don't want things to change," isn't a cogent response.

I just think 5 year one console generations is what we've been accustomed to expect. People buy consoles based of that. No need for multiple hardware choices like PC. Buy one system and you're good. Breaking this cycle and adding more is just going to confuse things and upset people who specifically buy consoles for the simplicity and not needing to decide which hardware configuration should they get. And it's going to get worse if this is indeed how it's going to be going forward and all 3 will be doing it.


How's steambox doing?

*chuckle*

So why would the majority care if a new one came out then? Why does more power suddenly matter? Why are you convinced 40 million will suddently be abandoned just because there's a more powerful option? If the majority clearly doesn't care, people won't buy them, and devs won't focus efforts on them. Why would things be any different than they work in the rest of the market?

Because it undermines their purchase. It doesn't matter if they don't have to buy it. Call that dumb, but again there's certain expectations from the console market.

And you can't be sure PS4 will be supported as usual because of the installed base. Developers didn't seem to care about the 100 million PS3 and 360 owners with games like Black Ops 3. They focused on showing their game in best possible way on new consoles and left a pile of shit for last gen owners.

GTAV doesn't even get online updates anymore.

The response has been bizarrely violent and intense, I'll give you that. But the amount of actual thought being put into it rather than simple fear mongering, that's a whole other topic.

I don't know what kind of response everyone expected. It's a big change to a 30+ year proven formula.

Games with shit frame rates/graphic whores complaining is about to become a thing of the past.

Wow you're gonna be disappointed. Powerful hardware isn't a magical solution to those things. Games will still have those problems.

You have a long wait ahead of you.

Honestly that post was sort of in jest. But hey at least you didn't pretentiously criticise me and call me names!

 

[Blanquito]

And you can't be sure PS4 will be supported as usual because of the installed base. Developers didn't seem to care about the 100 million PS3 and 360 owners with games like Black Ops 3. They focused on showing their game in best possible way on new consoles and left a pile of shit for last gen owners.

Or maybe they focused on the consoles that would generate the most revenue. Here, let me break this down:

ACTIVISON Q4 2015

GAAP NET REVENUE BY PLATFORM
PRIOR GEN (360, PS3, WII): 12% OF TOTAL
CURR GEN (XB1, PS4, WIIU): 37% OF TOTAL

NON-GAAP NET REVENUE BY PLATFORM
PRIOR GEN (360, PS3, WII): 12% OF TOTAL
CURR GEN (XB1, PS4, WIIU): 53% OF TOTAL

Source

So maybe they spent 3x as much effort and focus on current gen consoles, because they're getting 3x as much revenue from current gen consoles. Companies will always focus on the platforms that bring the most revenue for them, and thus they won't be ignoring the PS4 users until a time that PS4K users start outspending them. And that's not going to happen for at least another couple of years, if at all.