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Giant Bomb: PS4.5 / PS4K is codenamed NEO, more info

What are the chances of the whole thing being canned with a large enough negative response? At what stage are they? Can't have gone full production if they are just sending out dev kits? How big does the backlash need to be to provoke an preemptive 180 like with XB1?



- early adapters and recent buyers: Basic mode will most likely result in games running less well on the old PS4 if the game is just downscaled from Neo mode. This might not happen as often while there are only a couple of million PS4Ks and the other platforms apart from PC staying the same. However, it could severely limit PSVR games that might be targeted to run in Neo while Basic is just barely non-puke-inducing (this is because PSVR is its own platform or at least features games exclusively targeted at high spec PCs).
Either way, supporting two modes increases the chances of games not running rock-solid which is already now a problem day1.

- developers: being forced to support both Basic and Neo mode for each upcoming game will create more work and testing. They also can't go full out on the new hardware because this isn't a new gen. Sony-exclusive devs could push Neo mode more, but it still has to run on PS4 and the spec increase is not that drastic anyway.

- According to Microsoft they do not plan on releasing a XB1.5. If that's the case then Sony's hand is not forced, they already are the most powerful console on the market while selling the most as well. No one cares about the NX third-party wise and it's tech won't be far and beyond than even the current PS4 either. TBF, MS do their Windows10 thing which kinda means many first-party-releases can also run on a "XB1.5" (i.e. a higher spec Windows PC).



I don't think Sony is trying to be evil or anything, from their point of view they want to offer an option to run games at a higher fidelity (and maybe to make PSVR actually viable), but this introduces too much uncertainty for seemingly very little reward that mostly targets people who have not bought a PS4 yet. Not even graphics enthusiasts should be thrilled about this as it's not a new gen, there won't be a big jump and you can still make the games look better on current PCs.
Not to mention that this is still several quarters off so current PS4 sales will tank while more and more people get to know about the PS4K. I'm sure Sony isn't happy about that either.
Maybe in the future we are all used to having some 2 year upgrade console system and upcoming games always support the newest and the previous systems, but I still feel shorter gen cycles + cross-gen ports + full BC (all easy if they stick now to PC hardware as they will) is the better way to achieve similar things but more.


It just feels like only Sony is pushing this for no good reason even though no one asked for it.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
I suspect it'll basically offer the difference of something like, say, a PC game's default medium and high settings, with the latter offering equivalent to a better AA solution (or 4K) and a small handful of extra little XMB options like KennyLinder suggested such as 60fps capture or something.

Doesn't even sound like the upgrade would smooth out the framerate of a game that would otherwise be poorly optimised to run on the vanilla PS4. If it does though, especially for a game like Bloodborne, to give it a flat 30, I might consider upgrading. But only if I'm not significantly out of pocket.

The jump is more significant than your thinking.

A 2x GPU boost and upgrades to bandwidth and CPU will give huge performance advantages, if the XB1 to PS4 differentials which are much smaller are anything to go by.

What are the chances of the whole thing being canned with a large enough negative response? At what stage are they? Can't have gone full production if they are just sending out dev kits? How big does the backlash need to be to provoke an preemptive 180 like with XB1?

Your banking on too many ridiculous scenarios, based on hysteria. Calm down.
 
I really don't see what Sony are going for here, are they competing with PC? Because this neo doesn't even beat a machine you can go buy today, and with new GPU's from NVIDIA and AMD it'll be like the ps4 all over again. Its also nowhere near good enough of an upgrade to touch 4k,yet it will make development harder. Nice one sony
 
I really don't see what Sony are going for here, are they competing with PC? Because this neo doesn't even beat a machine you can go buy today, and with new GPU's from NVIDIA and AMD it'll be like the ps4 all over again. Its also nowhere near good enough of an upgrade to touch 4k,yet it will make development harder. Nice one sony

I thought Sony wants to make money again which they're doing on the current ps4. Why spend all that money on R&D and launch a newer system at a jacked up price?
 

zkorejo

Member
E3 will be interesting to say the least.

I am one of the people totally against the idea of Neo (cool code name), we will see at e3 if Sony's Neo can dodge a bullet.
 
I thought Sony wants to make money again which they're doing on the current ps4. Why spend all that money on R&D and launch a newer system at a jacked up price?

I'm assuming their taking a chance to expand their audience and possibly grab some hardcore PC players, 4K crowd, and anyone else who wants to take advantage of the stronger hardware. If the Ps4k price point is indeed at $399 I'm going to guess that the OG Ps4 will drop in price and maybe they'll have some kind of trade in program for a limited time so early adopters or anyone else can switch over if they want (doubt it but would be nice).

Now If the Ps4k gets released this holiday season and the OG Ps4 gets a price cut maybe this can mitigate some of the costs for R&D in the long run.

Either way I expect it to be a bumpy ride for a few months but In the grand scheme of things I don't see Sony losing much momentum at this point.
 
I thought Sony wants to make money again which they're doing on the current ps4. Why spend all that money on R&D and launch a newer system at a jacked up price?

They are making money right now. They're now preparing the path to earn money on the long run by hardening their position as market leader, as they are well aware (now) that their competitors will exploit any opportunity should they ever become complacent - again.

This is actually strategic management at its finest.
 

dr guildo

Member
This is probably the biggest news of the last few years. If it works, it will change the landscape (no more console gens) for ever.

Yep, the stakes are really this high, nothing less. Many don't get the whole picture yet, but it will come in time...

Edit : Wazoo, c'est moi Ramrod de Playstar... Je ne te savais pas ici aussi...
 

cordy

Banned
Eh, I think that If the Neo prototype doesn't work then they'll just scale down production and make this a special unique item for only those who want a bigger bang for your buck. I'm treating this like standard and S class for cars.

Hell, it's essentially getting an album and then getting a deluxe version of that album with extra tracks. If it fails we go back to the old model next-gen.
 

Blizzje

Member
An important new bit of information that I've only heard so far on the latest Giant Bombcast (around the 19 minute mark) is:
'They [Sony] won't allow a display buffer lower than 1080p in Neo mode'
Essentially this means that all Neo-games will have a lowest resolution of 1080p.

Which, in my opinion, is a fantastic requirement to set.
 
This is probably the biggest news of the last few years. If it works, it will change the landscape (no more console gens) for ever.

Yeah. I can understand that and like I said in my previous post:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201404702&postcount=1469

It seems PS4 Neo is getting more news than the PS4 before and after its release. :p

and that is in every gaming and even non gaming sites in every language too.

I hope this enw PS4 Now will end well for both Sony and gamers. I never say no for prettier games.
 

Lnkn52

Member
An important new bit of information that I've only heard so far on the latest Giant Bombcast (around the 19 minute mark) is:
'They [Sony] won't allow a display buffer lower than 1080p in Neo mode'
Essentially this means that all Neo-games will have a lowest resolution of 1080p.

Which, in my opinion, is a fantastic requirement to set.
I can't wait for the Final Fantasy PS4K bundle.
 
An important new bit of information that I've only heard so far on the latest Giant Bombcast (around the 19 minute mark) is:
'They [Sony] won't allow a display buffer lower than 1080p in Neo mode'
Essentially this means that all Neo-games will have a lowest resolution of 1080p.

Which, in my opinion, is a fantastic requirement to set.

Kind of like how developers weren't allowed to make games with a display buffer below 720P on the Xbox 360.

I suspect that requirement will go away pretty quickly
 

Zoetis

Banned
Some are overdramatic and 90% shouldn't even worry unless you have a 4k tv.

Games will look and feel the same on both platforms if you care about those little advancements "ps4k" will provide buy a PC.

There are requirements and sony will be verry clear about these, so don't think your games will run 20fps on your ps4.

neogaf loves to see the world burn, but in the end everything will be just fine, Sony knows exactly how not to F*** their customers. ps3 was a great lesson.
 
An important new bit of information that I've only heard so far on the latest Giant Bombcast (around the 19 minute mark) is:
'They [Sony] won't allow a display buffer lower than 1080p in Neo mode'
Essentially this means that all Neo-games will have a lowest resolution of 1080p.

Which, in my opinion, is a fantastic requirement to set.

That would please me. I hope they don't target 4k either though. Keep it at 1080p with better fps, better AA/more visual effects.
 

Raist

Banned
Well at the very least it is going to be 4K media. Internally things are changing somewhat. What is your personal opinion then?

A slim with potentially some minor hardware refresh.

100 euro against 10 euro is fine by me.

If you feel I'm giving myself too much wiggle room then adjust the parameters and the odds. This is real and your objection is wrong.

Why are you so invested in this?

Look, I assume you'd agree that there is a massive difference between

"An upgraded console, to be announced before E3 2017, with a focus on higher resolution or framerate, with software that runs on both but can run better on the newer console, regardless of which specific final name were used."

and

"Coming this year, here are the exact specs, price, codename, blablablah".


So to reiterate, it seems all sources agree on the basis, but the issue is that each one of them (and they all claim to have multiple sources i.e knowing the "truth") give very different details about it.
It's a bit like abrahamic religions. Common basis, but they disagree on details and all claim to be the one truth because the other ones are incompatible.

So, we don't disagree all that much in the end, because your parameters would very well fit what I said too (Slim with minor revisions) as opposed to the "out this year with 2x the CUs and upclocks and mandatory NEO mode etc" non-sense.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Why are you so invested in this?

are you kidding? my first post in the thread came after your 14 post campaign to allege a conspiracy of journalistic lying (which you called "a load of bullshit", a "bullshit leak", "flip-flopping", air-quoted the word "documents" because you don't think they exist, that they don't seem "legit", "just noise", "random leaks and hearsays... that don't really make sense", "a million contradictions"), and you're calling me overly invested because you wouldn't take a 10-to-1 bet in your favour (i.e. your confidence in you actually being correct is <10%)--and your reason for declining the bet is a technicality?

bro your pants are around your ankles.

Stage 1: Denial
 

El_Chino

Member
are you kidding? my first post in the thread came after your 14 post campaign to allege a conspiracy of journalistic lying (which you called "a load of bullshit", a "bullshit leak", "flip-flopping", air-quoted the word "documents" because you don't think they exist, that they don't seem "legit", "just noise", "random leaks and hearsays... that don't really make sense", "a million contradictions"), and you're calling me overly invested because you wouldn't take a 10-to-1 bet in your favour (i.e. your confidence in you actually being correct is <10%)--and your reason for declining the bet is a technicality?

bro your pants are around your ankles.

Stage 1: Denial
Should be his new tag when it's officially announced.
 

Abdiel

Member
Some are overdramatic and 90% shouldn't even worry unless you have a 4k tv.

Games will look and feel the same on both platforms if you care about those little advancements "ps4k" will provide buy a PC.

There are requirements and sony will be verry clear about these, so don't think your games will run 20fps on your ps4.

neogaf loves to see the world burn, but in the end everything will be just fine, Sony knows exactly how not to F*** their customers. ps3 was a great lesson.

I love your posts. They fly under the radar for many, but I appreciate it.

From an external perspective, until they give us a reason to believe they've fucked this up, I have no reason to assume it's already fucked.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Kind of like how developers weren't allowed to make games with a display buffer below 720P on the Xbox 360.

I suspect that requirement will go away pretty quickly

A game would have to be struggling to do 720p on PS4 for Neo to have any trouble at 1080p. Are you expecting a lot of 540p games on Xbone?
 

Audioboxer

Member
are you kidding? my first post in the thread came after your 14 post campaign to allege a conspiracy of journalistic lying (which you called "a load of bullshit", a "bullshit leak", "flip-flopping", air-quoted the word "documents" because you don't think they exist, that they don't seem "legit", "just noise", "random leaks and hearsays... that don't really make sense", "a million contradictions"), and you're calling me overly invested because you wouldn't take a 10-to-1 bet in your favour (i.e. your confidence in you actually being correct is <10%)--and your reason for declining the bet is a technicality?

bro your pants are around your ankles.

Stage 1: Denial

Stage 2: Stump smackdown.
 
If Sony expects devs not to half-ass the NEO versions of their games, they're smoking something (4/20 reference! YAY!). Not to mention that Sony will undoubtedly show the NEO version of their games in trailers and advertisements, meaning it will be almost impossible to experience a game without spending $60 and playing it.

I look forward to my 30 FPS maximum future :/
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
My worry is still about NEO being under utilised because of the rules. And as already alluded to, what happens when God of War 4 is shown in NEO mode and a ignorant PS4 owner complains when he buys it?

You know that will happen.
 
My worry is still about NEO being under utilised because of the rules. And as already alluded to, what happens when God of War 4 is shown in NEO mode and a ignorant PS4 owner complains when he buys it?

You know that will happen.

If 30fps VS 60fps was the common difference, would that be enough for you personally? Id be happy with that. If they're both 60 already,then better AA, texture filtering etc would be very welcome.
 

Philippo

Member
Why are some people reacting like console gens won't exist no more?
Do they really believe we'll get a PS4.5-2 in 2019/2020 instead of a PS5? lol

If it works, this is how it'll play out from now on:

2013 PS4
Late 2016/Early 2017 Neo PS4 (2x time more powerful than PS4)
2019/2020 PS5 (generational leap, 10x leap from Neo PS4)
2022/2023 Neo PS5 (2x times more powerful than PS5)

I mean, we still gets new iPhone gens even with 4S,5S and 6S mdway through...
 
Why are some people reacting like console gens won't exist no more?
Do they really believe we'll get a PS4.5-2 in 2019/2020 instead of a PS5? lol

If it works, this is how it'll play out from now on:

2013 PS4
Late 2016/Early 2017 Neo PS4 (2x time more powerful than PS4)
2019/2020 PS5 (generational leap, 10x leap from Neo PS4)
2022/2023 Neo PS5 (2x times more powerful than PS5)

I mean, we still gets new iPhone gens even with 4S,5S and 6S mdway through...

Only way this works if it's done every 4-5 years. Next upgrade will the PS5 and then we get an S model midway. Personally, I'm excited if done right but let's see.
 
Why are some people reacting like console gens won't exist no more?
Do they really believe we'll get a PS4.5-2 in 2019/2020 instead of a PS5? lol

If it works, this is how it'll play out from now on:

2013 PS4
Late 2016/Early 2017 Neo PS4 (2x time more powerful than PS4)
2019/2020 PS5 (generational leap, 10x leap from Neo PS4)
2022/2023 Neo PS5 (2x times more powerful than PS5)

Why do you think we'll still have generations? The business model has been turned upside down. We may no longer have the concept of generations.

I mean, we still gets new iPhone gens even with 4S,5S and 6S mdway through...

It's funny you mention the iPhone which doesn't have the concept of a generation. Each model is now just a new iteration with no huge jump to mark a new generation.
 
I can't wait for Sony's downfall.

image.php


Rorschach-watchmen-20859832-500-281.gif
 
My worry is still about NEO being under utilised because of the rules. And as already alluded to, what happens when God of War 4 is shown in NEO mode and a ignorant PS4 owner complains when he buys it?

You know that will happen.

Can an ignorant PS4 user even tell the difference between high and medium settings without looking at them side by side?

I don't think casuals are gonna care all that much about the Neo, except for the fact that the OG PS4 will get cheaper and more casuals will be able to enter the market.
 
So much truth. I can't wait for Sony's downfall. Dumbasses.

These reactions... Just absolutely the epitome of internet stupidity.

My personal reaction to all this is to see how it all goes. A tic-tock method of releasing consoles is perfectly fine with me. It's plenty in line with how much of the tech industry already handles their product releases, and I see no reason we should bind this particular industry to an old model that may no longer make sense in a world where consoles no longer contain cutting edge tech when they're released. Will I get one? No idea. Will it destroy the industry. Certainly not. Does Sony deserve to crash and burn for a mild experimentation with their business model (one which isn't even a novel idea)? Of course not.
 

hesido

Member
I think I'll wait for PSVR1.5 before I make my final decision about this whole ordeal. Was thinking of jumping ship at around PS5.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
If 30fps VS 60fps was the common difference, would that be enough for you personally? Id be happy with that. If they're both 60 already,then better AA, texture filtering etc would be very welcome.

Honestly I don't know until I see it. It is just niggling me that the differences PS4 and NEO that are being touted are Xbox One>PS4+ improvements when the the GPU gap is much larger in flops and it possibly has the new architecture of Polaris on top.

A wild guess for me of the differences in GPUs is PS4=GTX 670 and NEO=GTX 970. I don't think it is too much to expect that fps, IQ and settings would all get a sizeable jump if I'm paying the full £350 again.

I know it was a long time ago but I do remember Cory Barlog replying to a tweet about a 800 hour face render that what he was working on looked better. And now we have NEO....
 
My worry is still about NEO being under utilised because of the rules.

If people are worried about anything, I would think this is the most sensible thing to worry about. I'd bet money that devs start with the PS4 in mind, and simply increase the sliders at most for the Neo.

And as already alluded to, what happens when God of War 4 is shown in NEO mode and a ignorant PS4 owner complains when he buys it?

You know that will happen.

But this is basically already the status quo throughout the industry. Stuff running on high powered PCs is where you see a lot screenshots and demos coming from. I practically expect it from every stage demo and trailer at this point. How does the Neo change that?
 
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