-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Goku Vs. Superman - Settled Once and For All
- Thread starter Vanish
- Start date
- Status
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Good for you?
Ventilaator
Banned
I find it hilarious that they decide to use the less insane version of Superman to make this into a better fight, and the Superman they use is still beyond broken.
Comics are weird, man.
Comics are weird, man.
SolarPowered
Member
No way this will end well.Why are we all hung up on Superman, we should be worrying about Kyle Rayner.
And its speculated he will have white soon as well?
Come on, you want to talk OP Lanterns are generally OP but Kyle is getting somewhere beyond now....not welcome on Earth.
It's always something different with comics. I can never get it straight and I read them every once in a while unlike the average person.
sheesh
It's why superman is a more boring character.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Its always been about worthy. Supes couldn't pick it up, so why would goku be able to?
Manmademan
Member
It's kind of arbitrary. "worth" is basically determined by Odin's standards. Odin is the king of the norse gods, and they are most certainly NOT pure of heart. It's more in line with being the best warrior possible by their standards. There are a LOT of heroes who are "pure of heart" and the list of people who can legitimately lift it is about 3. (Beta Ray Bill, Eric Masterson, and Captain America.)
Wonder woman lifted it in marvel vs DC, and Spiderman 2099 (Miguel O'hara) lifted it in a possible future, but neither of these is exactly canon. The odds of Goku lifting it is not good.
Superman is boring. Goku is a super being done right - since he had to work brutally hard to get where he is. Hopefully the new movie will be good and they can put some soul into Superman.
They've done that in comics a long time ago.
Superman is more as a character than just powers and feats.
Even if you restricted it to being a warrior I don't see how Goku wouldn't be able to life Mjolnir. If Captain could, Goku definitely can.
zero shift
Banned
These characters are so overpowered and inconsistent its hard for me to take them seriously. Stay in the center of the sun? Teleport people whereever they want just by looking at them?
"As strong as he needs to be." really is a terrible idea for a character.
"As strong as he needs to be." really is a terrible idea for a character.
lol Captain America picked up the hammer? Pffft.
I can imagine DBZ'ers obliterating all the ground around the hammer as they are trying to pick the hammer up.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Superman is more than a sum of his battles. His interactions with friends and family, personal struggle to right by his birth parents and the people who raised him, and a need to be a shining beacon of hope for the world, holding their hardships on his back and to keep moving unwavered because that's what's expected of him. I don't see how anyone whose read Superman comics can call him boring.
Steve has far more depth than goku. Its not even a question.
Manmademan
Member
it's not just "a" warrior, there are plenty of these. Asgard is full of norse warriors, none can lift it. It's about being the best of the best by THEIR standards.
Captain America is routinely put forward as not only the best fighter on the planet, but the best example of humanity of all time- if you believe 2099, he's still an icon 100 years after every other hero is dead and gone.
Beta Ray Bill, for instance is the champion of his race- he sacrificed his body and became hideously deformed through a process that killed every other contender in an effort to save the last of his species. He eats, lives, and breathes combat and the dude is vicious in a fight.
Goku is...not on this level. Goku is skilled, but is an idiot. This is a dude who practically lives in terror of his wife.
to be fair, this list is damn short. Thor, Hercules, The Sentry, a heavily enraged hulk and the juggernaut are really the only marvel heroes that fit the bill. everyone else has limits.
Captain America is the finest man in the Marvel U. You damn right he picked up the hammer.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Don't forget shitty father
Since some people seem to be confused, here are the basic rules for Death Battle
Here are the rules of Death Battle:
-Combattants must posess knowledge of each other only if such is canon to each fighter's universe.
-The battle must end with a death For fairness, any personality restraints from killing are removed.
-All other character traits, tactics and attributes, are not removed and are attempted to be represented faithfully.
Here are the rules of Death Battle:
-Combattants must posess knowledge of each other only if such is canon to each fighter's universe.
-The battle must end with a death For fairness, any personality restraints from killing are removed.
-All other character traits, tactics and attributes, are not removed and are attempted to be represented faithfully.
You mother fucker...
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
T'challa is too ruthless to be worthy.
If you think about it, all a character needs is an excuse and a bunch of shitty writers willing to out do their own ridiculous ideas.
Ventilaator
Banned
Poor Superman with his infinite powers, being expected to do things. How will he manage.
zero shift
Banned
So because of these conversations I'm kind of curious about the Marvel/DC world. What animated movie/series should I watch? I prefer something adult. Sorry but I can't make threads yet.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Honestly, you'd think the strongest member of a conquering warrior race that lives for battle would be worthy of picking up a hammer from another conquering warrior race.
But no, apparently not. It is however, capable of being picked up by American Jesus, a selfless and messianic figure whose powers come from taking drugs after he joined the military-industrial complex.
But no, apparently not. It is however, capable of being picked up by American Jesus, a selfless and messianic figure whose powers come from taking drugs after he joined the military-industrial complex.
And yet, those ideas have made for great stories.
And a dude who looks like a horse! Be jealous. Goku.
You forgot the flag colors and an eagle on his pants. Never forget the eagle.
Goku was the first of his species to achieve Super Saiyajin status, consistently puts the well being of planet populations over his own and constantly pushes himself to become stronger and better. I don't see how you can give a nod to Captain America because he's the best example of humanity (which is certainly questionable) has to offer when Goku is essentially the same thing for his race.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Great Superman stories dealing with his godlike powers and limitations like All-Star Superman and Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow and uh all the other ones that aren't those two examples
Red Son i guess
Red Son i guess
Yeah lol...its not like the rest of the superheroes out there don't have to deal with things like that.
Also, if all it takes is Odin's approval to raise the hammer, I don't see why Goku wouldn't lift it in a second. Saiyans are essentially the Norse culture on steroids. And Goku specially lives and breaths to fight. Its his only passion. What were the Norse known for again?
Manmademan
Member
Don't know much about Captain America, do you? Cap's "powers" are skill and dedication. he doesn't need the serum.
Steve was still a threat even WITHOUT the super soldier serum (he's defeated super soldiers with a decaying body), and routinely takes out opponents in the 10, 20, and 50 ton range.
When Masterson lost the hammer and became Thunderstrike (as opposed to thor) Cap tossed him around like a rag doll while sparring despite the fact that masterson was still class 70 or so.
It's not questionable, because 2099 came outright and said so. It HAS been retconned into an alternate future however, so it's no longer canon. Thats why I said "if you believe it."
Goku wasn't the first of his species to reach super saiyan, because super saiyans were legendary before the series started. He was just the first to hit it in a long time. And again- Steve and BRB are basically tactical geniuses. Goku is an idiot who makes boneheaded moves in order to appear "honorable" and is terrified of his wife. He'd be laughed out of Valhalla, skills or no.
Yep.
EmCeeGramr
Member
wow just wow
and then captain america went level 1000000 without even using his powers and an eagle cried (it was also the master of the eagle dimension) and the ultimate master of the triple multiverse came down and said "steve rogers u are the best human ever" and then cap beat double-jesus in arm wrestling
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
There's something real funny about a superhero with a big bold "AMERICA" label being given the title of "the best example of humanity of all time", hahaha.
Damn.
Anyways, I can never take Superman's story seriously due to the fact all he needs to do to conceal himself is just a pair of glasses. Yeah some people have been trying to explain this by him changing posture and whatnot but even with those kind of explanations its still reeks of hilarious BS; I honestly don't think his original creator/conceptor even thought of that.
bobbychalkers
Member
Same here, but damn....numbers don't lie.
I wasn't really referring to the great powers, but yeah. Those are good stories.
I'm just saying, whatever problems people have with Superman's power levels, lots of writers over the last 75 years have managed to tell good stories starring the character. He's far from "boring," unless of course you just don't like the concept. Which is fine.
zero shift
Banned
Manmademan
Member
Superman had this problem for a long time as well. The "truth, justice, and american way" thing just doesn't age well.
Cap has had a few storylines where he's ended up at odds with the US government and abandoned the Cap identity a few times though, for what it's worth.
AlphaDragoon
Member
LOL at the idea that TTGL isn't retardedly broken. Spiral Power is literally a "anything you can do I can do better" instant win button that gives the user the power to surpass anything they put their mind to. It's like Cartman's ninja on that episode of South Park where no matter what the others said their ninjas could do, he'd pop in with "well my ninja can do this which tops your ninja".
Simon can basically Deus ex Machina anything he wants, but stops himself from doing things like bringing things back into existence because he doesn't want to be all-powerful.
Simon can basically Deus ex Machina anything he wants, but stops himself from doing things like bringing things back into existence because he doesn't want to be all-powerful.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Funny enough, DF's still aren't completely understood. Their powers can be replicated through scientific means, "fed" to inanimate objects, and even artificially reproduced. It was only in the currently ending OP arc that the method of DF creation (the nearest compatible fruit transforms into a DF upon the death of the ability user) was revealed. And then there's the whole nearly forgotten aspect of how ability users lose their powers in water and can't swim because the "sea devil" is "rejecting" them, or the origin of the fruits themselves, which still haven't been elaborated upon.
They might be magic or something else entirely. Heck, OP readers still argue about whether haki counts as magic or a superpower.
Oh snap.
AlimNassor
Banned
Demon Bane. It's like an even more broken TTGL. Demon Bane is so large entire universes are nothing more then pinpricks next to it.
According to the manga, Goku was the first Super Saiyan, unless you're taking into account a character which Toei animation made up (Bardock, his father) who was later adapted in a short manga short where he became Super Saiyan. Before Goku, it was all a myth and a legend.
I can buy Steve being a genius, don't know much about BRB. From what I read he showed up and the only reason Odin recognized him was that he fought Thor equally without powers and gifted his own hammer.
Goku is a talented, dedicated martial artist and duelist, but you just throw that out the window. You're coming off extremely bias.
All I know about Haki is that it makes people faint sometimes. And it lets Luffy become steel...somehow.
- Status