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[FStubbs]

For a series as big as Pokemon with the low budget it takes to make these games, supporting 1000 Pokemon models with limited animations is really not a big deal. A core feature of the series is being cut away and people are defending it just like they defended horse armor, micro transactions, and loot boxes. You can't even use the excuse "they need to make the series more mainstream." It's Pokemon.

EDIT: I'm saying this as someone who is currently running through Alpha Sapphire with a team completely traded in from Pokemon Y.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

They could if they wanted to.

Sure!

 

[TheSadRanger]

For a series as big as Pokemon with the low budget it takes to make these games, supporting 1000 Pokemon models with limited animations is really not a big deal. A core feature of the series is being cut away and people are defending it just like they defended horse armor, micro transactions, and loot boxes. You can't even use the excuse "they need to make the series more mainstream." It's Pokemon.

EDIT: I'm saying this as someone who is currently running through Alpha Sapphire with a team completely traded in from Pokemon Y.

I'm not happy with it either but at the same time I do realize that having 800+ Pokemon with having to go through tons of hoops to collect the ones not in that region for that specific title is not exactly friendly to new players. Even though Pokemon is a series geared towards young players it's not exactly an ideal situation and heavily favors older fans of the series.

GF has put this off forever and I think it has hurt the series in attracting new players to it.

Now if GF came out and said "Hey we want new players to be able to catch up and not have to play a 10 year old game to collect em all, so we'll have half of all Pokemon obtainable in this game from it's region and half in the next installment"

I wouldn't like but I would at least respect that choice from a design standpoint. I mean let's be honest, Pokemon is a kids game that favors people that are damn near 40 years old more than it does kids.

 

[Saber]

Now if GF came out and said "Hey we want new players to be able to catch up and not have to play a 10 year old game to collect em all, so we'll have half of all

If you're talking about specifically collecting all pokemons in the pokedex, this not a problem anymore.

Now if you think this is what scare new players, I'm sorry to break yah. Like, catching all pokemons is not an easy task and not supposed to be one. It's consired a hard archievemt and I'm pretty sure is designed to hardcore loyal fans for sticking to their games gen after gen.

No, what scare them are the battles and sense of getting lost. New fans don't want to lose, don't want to learn and don't want big ass maps. They want handholding experiences where the game basically explain what to do next and help them in each the process.

Without risking to repeat myself, I think you guys are giving game freak too much of credit. We're not in the old times. If the problem is implementation of models because "too much models" (please note this is not only their bread and butter but their own fault for milking the series with more and more mons), then again would be wiser to simply delay the game and give it more time and work for it. No one gonna crucify them because of that. In fact, it would be very positive since it shows that they would willing to spend more time with the game.

As for "pokemon is for "kids", seriously I've heard better excuses.

 

[theclaw135]

Setting unrealistic expections is their fault too. Insisting on including every Pokemon, without regard to their usefulness or the development cycle, was not sustainable.

 

[TheSadRanger]

If you're talking about specifically collecting all pokemons in the pokedex, this not a problem anymore.

Now if you think this is what scare new players, I'm sorry to break yah. Like, catching all pokemons is not an easy task and not supposed to be one. It's consired a hard archievemt and I'm pretty sure is designed to hardcore loyal fans for sticking to their games gen after gen.

Ya but "Catching em all!" didn't start out that way. It wasn't that difficult to get everything back in the day.

I mean we've got 23 years of Pokemon. I mean it's obviously way more difficult for someone to "catch em all" coming into the series now than if they had during even the DS days.

Look I'm not saying that I like the decision, I don't. But I do think the massive roster was becoming an issue.

I mean I'll be pissed af if the Sinnoh starters get cut just for a remake or if they decide to cut the Kalos or Hoenn starters.

Unova starters can go kick rocks for all I care with their single types -_-

 

[Saber]

Ya but "Catching em all!" didn't start out that way. It wasn't that difficult to get everything back in the day.

I mean we've got 23 years of Pokemon. I mean it's obviously way more difficult for someone to "catch em all" coming into the series now than if they had during even the DS days.

Look I'm not saying that I like the decision, I don't. But I do think the massive roster was becoming an issue.

It's all their own fault. They though they could continue to milk this process as if it would be endless gold mine. It backfires them.

What they didn't expect is that people not just buy new gen pokemon games for the new pokemons, but because they like to move their old ones to the new game. Fans are attached to their mons, there are value on them(be sentimental or not).

I don't see problem with people looking foward to Sword and Shield, neither I'm here to oppose them to buy. If they're happy then go for it. Just don't expect me to feel like it's an acceptable excuse to change something that they have being doing for years and throwing excuses as if this matter is a small thing.

 

[Spukc]

The mistake they made was to create more then the original 151

 

[theclaw135]

It's all their own fault. They though they could continue to milk this process as if it would be endless gold mine. It backfires them.

What they didn't expect is that people not just buy new gen pokemon games for the new pokemons, but because they like to move their old ones to the new game. Fans are attached to their mons, there are value on them(be sentimental or not).

I don't see problem with people looking foward to Sword and Shield, neither I'm here to oppose them to buy. If they're happy then go for it. Just don't expect me to feel like it's an acceptable excuse to change something that they have being doing for years and throwing excuses as if this matter is a small thing.

Endless is exactly the issue.
Where should the line be drawn? What happens when the game has tens, hundreds of thousands of Pokemon?

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Endless is exactly the issue.
Where should the line be drawn? What happens when the game has tens, hundreds of thousands of Pokemon?

You make quality Pokemon games like this obviously!

 

[TheSadRanger]

^Eh, it's still in development and we don't know how old that build is. Some stuff looks good tho. Like these animations for the bug types are perfectly fine.



^At least we know Scyther is in /whew

 

[Fake]

Excuses and more excuses... Keep going folks.

 

[Jubenhimer]

From what Game Freak explained, it seems like its due to hardware limitations. Perhaps Pokemon Sword and Shield has a different code-base from the previous games, so transferring wouldn't have been possible.

 

[theclaw135]

Excuses and more excuses... Keep going folks.

People are so bent out of shape about this, they're unwilling to address the hard questions.

The number of Pokemon that may be created in the future is theoretically infinite.
The number that can be implemented into one installment of the game, is not.

 

[Fake]

From what Game Freak explained, it seems like its due to hardware limitations. Perhaps Pokemon Sword and Shield has a different code-base from the previous games, so transferring wouldn't have been possible.

Thats explain why they create Pokemon Bank/Pokemon Home.
/s

 

[Jubenhimer]

Thats explain why they create Pokemon Bank/Pokemon Home.
/s

Most Pokemon from other games can still be transfered provided they're in Sword/Shield. That was the point. Anything exclusive to past games can't be transferred.

 

[CaptainAnchovie]

People are so bent out of shape about this, they're unwilling to address the hard questions.

We don't have to address a hypothetical, the current is what is being discussed.
Currently, there are 800 Pokemon. Pokemon is a franchise that consistently sells millions with each entry. GameFreak is an extremely small, seemingly incapable studio that has struggled for half a decade to release complete games due to their team size and bizarre focus on superfluous features that are not integral to core mechanics.

Why in the fuck would we address a hypothetical when the solution to the current predicament is obvious?
Gamefreak needs to expand massively(relative to their current size) in order to deliver on consumer expectations, hopefully they'll recieve that message through the market.

 

[theclaw135]

That's fair. Still, the forced inclusion of superfluous Pokemon isn't helping even the current situation.
The development resources have a myriad of more beneficial uses. Improving the plot/story direction, simplistic world geography, dated graphics, gimmicky battle mechanics, underwhelming post-game content...

 

[TheSadRanger]

I can agree that they possibly stretched themselves thin. Especially since Town is all of a sudden MIA. When Town was announced I was worried about it interfering with SwSh. I don't think Game Freak is inherently incompetent. However I do think there is a valid argument that working on LGPE, Town and Gen 8 all at the same time at one point maybe stretched themselves thin.

Hell we haven't heard a peep about Town since last September even though the game looked pretty polished.

 

[Conan-san]

Man, if only people got this pissy when BW tried this without the backup of migrating 'mon and we got some real clunkadunk 'mon (that, lowkey, contributed a not unsizable number to the National Dex) as a result.

 

[Yoshi]

As long as Psyduck is in, I can cope.

 

[theclaw135]

Man, if only people got this pissy when BW tried this without the backup of migrating 'mon and we got some real clunkadunk 'mon (that, lowkey, contributed a not unsizable number to the National Dex) as a result.

From a creative and technical standpoint, BW1 was among the best the games have been yet.

The engine performs well.
Few recycled wild mons.
A somewhat more interesting narrative (mainly the ethical question of how much freedom caught Pokemon have)

 

[ParanoidRED]

Honestly, this is the more interesting Pokemon game since B/W so it's gonna take more than a limited pokedex to kill my hype

....still, wasting all those amazing designs they had with Mega evolutions and getting the giant pokemon instead, stings

 

[TheSadRanger]

^ Mega Evolution can go kick rocks for all I care, while the aesthetic designs looked cool. It favored a handful of Pokemon to be selected over hundreds that were already in the series. The same goes for Z-moves.

 

[Thurible]

Is there any chance that they will undo this in the future with a patch or when they release pokemon dynasword and dynashield?

 

[Saruhashi]

Serebii/Smogon community gonna make a human shield to defend this as usual. They did with Lets go series, they gonna do again.
I mean, nothing can explain 'why' pokemon games still have shit animations move even with that big jump between 3DS and Nintendo Switch hardware. If you watch the Pokemon Sword/Shield livestream, you'll see the fire pkmn starter using the same ' don't do nothing' animation for double kick, but people keeping thinking this is 'ok',so lets sell at full price, why not?

Gamefreak will probably change the pokemon quote trademark 'Gotta Catch Em' All!' in the name of profit.

What do you mean "defend"?

It makes a lot of sense from multiple perspectives.

If there are 800+ Pokemon then it makes sense to select a few from that pool and add some new ones for each new game.
So players are encouraged to try the new ones mostly and the older favorite ones are there to complement that roster.

Since the Pokemon games take the player to different regions it kind of makes sense that some regions would not have the same Pokemon as others.
Kind of dumb to go to the new region and all of the Pokemon from all the other regions just happen to be there.

For the developers I think the issues are obvious.

On people "defending" Let's Go, here's a crazy thought, maybe people just liked it?

Whether you like it or not there are positives to not having every Pokemon ever in the game.
There are good arguments for keeping the number down.

There are negatives too but there's no real right or wrong here.

So they aren't making the game to your exact specifications. OK.
Criticize it then.

Don't think you need to sneer at people who think the decision is fine.
"Gonna make a human shield to defend this".
As if there is NO possible argument for maybe not putting every Pokemon ever in the game.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Sure!

Like I said "if" but they really don't give a fuck cuz it prints money with low effort.

 

[Saber]

^ Mega Evolution can go kick rocks for all I care, while the aesthetic designs looked cool. It favored a handful of Pokemon to be selected over hundreds that were already in the series. The same goes for Z-moves.

Can't say I have liking for Megas. Those are a bad moves for pokemon in general and created a lot of balancing issues.

Still, cant say this dynamax is a good thing either. Its no trouple at all to increase the size of models(stretch then). Reminds me of mods and console commands presented in Skyrim.

Maybe they can tune things fine from the battle perspective, but its hard to tell because attempts of doing the same like Z-moves weren't good.

But in all good, still sad they took off Megas. They could just limit more Megas, making different online battle rules for them...you know, balancing the game.

 

[Fake]

What do you mean "defend"?

What I mean is no matter what gamefreak make or not they still gonna believe in every single excuse that corporation does.
Nintendo Switch its miles ahead 3DS hardware, but still no matter.
But hey, its Pokemon. They don't need to please everybody right?
C'mon dude, 800 pkmns is so much? Fine, I'll bite, but thats not explain why the moves animations are so terrible.
Its excuses behind excuses. Its out of control.

 

[Kovet]

Honestly I'm ok with leaving out like say only the 200 worst pokemon imo but these new assets don't feel too revolutionary to leave out some they look like the same gen 6 assets imo

 

[CaptainAnchovie]

As if there is NO possible argument for maybe not putting every Pokemon ever in the game.

There isn't from the perspective that all Pokemon should be tranferrable post-game. They can pick and choose which Pokemon to have been native to the region, it's always been that way.
GameFreak is a lazy studio, with lazy practices and obvious fixes(expand the team to contend with HD development like everyone else did 15 years ago). We're not even close to the point where the team's workload is insurmountable, they just can't seem to animate their way out of a wet paper bag so they don't bother.

 

[Saruhashi]

What I mean is no matter what gamefreak make or not they still gonna believe in every single excuse that corporation does.
Nintendo Switch its miles ahead 3DS, but still no matter what they still don't delivery any improves.
But hey, its Pokemon. They don't need to please everybody right?
C'mon dude, 800 pkmns is so much? Fine, I'll bite, but thats not explain why the moves animations are so terrible.
Its excuses behind excuses. Its out of control.

Right but if people like the games then that's not "defending" Gamefreak.
If someone is interested in Sword & Shield and intends to buy it then declaring that intent isn't believing in corporate excuses.

Shit, it's like because they never made the perfect game to your exact preferences anyone who says "looks pretty good to me" is just a corporate shill in your mind.

I don't really know, or care, if 800 Pokemon is too much or too little. All I'm saying is there are good reasons to not include all of them in the new game.
Yes, there are also good reasons to include them all but that's a decision the developer has to make.

You disagree? That's fine.
People who agree though aren't necessarily making excuses.

It is what it is. I don't understand the reaction that is borderline outrage over what is a pretty simple development decision.

Even if the animations are terrible. Does that mean that people can't enjoy the game?
Shit, I've enjoyed worse looking games than this.

Also, of course Gamefreak are in it for the profit. It's a videogame after all.

 

[Fake]

If they want time, give them time. I super OK with delay a game. Just don't expect everyone to believe that amount of excuses.
Believe who want.

 

[Mochilador]

Gotta catch almost 'em all!

 

[Saruhashi]

There isn't from the perspective that all Pokemon should be tranferrable post-game. They can pick and choose which Pokemon to have been native to the region, it's always been that way.
GameFreak is a lazy studio, with lazy practices and obvious fixes(expand the team to contend with HD development like everyone else did 15 years ago). We're not even close to the point where the team's workload is insurmountable, they just can't seem to animate their way out of a wet paper bag so they don't bother.

Do they HAVE to though?

In all fairness they have been producing a fairly successful series of games for a while now.
I am not sure that there is some dire need for them to stop being "lazy" and so anything different.

I understand that people have certain expectations but I don't think they've shown off anything that suggests anything other than if you like Pokemon games then you will probably like this.

I don't know who you are to be able to judge the team's workload but that just seems like a weird comment.

 

[CaptainAnchovie]

I don't know who you are to be able to judge the team's workload but that just seems like a weird comment.

Based upon articles available about the size of development teams who produce equally, if not more, successful games in the last decade that are far more intricate, we can observe that GameFreak is behind the Industry at large by a huge margin.
Why can't Pokemon Sun and Moon achieve a consistent framerate late in the 3DS's life while Resident Evil Revelaitons, a very early game, manages 30FPS during all but the most intense scenes while enjoying a huge fidelity advantage?

So really GameFreak's apparent technical incompetence and laziness is relative to their peers. You can find stories of people peeling back layers of code in older Pokemon games and finding a myriad of inefficiencies. There aren't excuses anymore and now it's actually, tangibly affecting the games' quality by removal of a feature core to the series: the ability to catch them all.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Do they HAVE to though?

In all fairness they have been producing a fairly successful series of games for a while now.
I am not sure that there is some dire need for them to stop being "lazy" and so anything different.

I understand that people have certain expectations but I don't think they've shown off anything that suggests anything other than if you like Pokemon games then you will probably like this.

I don't know who you are to be able to judge the team's workload but that just seems like a weird comment.

Yeah I know gamefreak sucks but like if you like Pokemon then don't complain lol!

Q U A L I T Y

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Shoutout to everyone being woke as fuck about Gamefreak. It only took how many years?

 

[Saruhashi]

Yeah I know gamefreak sucks but like if you like Pokemon then don't complain lol!
Q U A L I T Y

FFS, I never said don't complain.

Just pointing out that they made a game that people are probably going to like.

So it's pretty fucking dumb to say people who do like it are "defending" Gamefreak.
Perhaps they just don't care enough to moan about it to the same extent as you do.

I get it. You care about something that other people don't care about.
You want them to see it from your point of view.

At the end of the day though everyone is going to feel differently about different games and your outrage is going to be someone else's "meh".

 

[Fake]

"

Yeah I know gamefreak sucks but like if you like Pokemon then don't complain lol!

Q U A L I T Y

Sure!

"Will sell millions anw".
/s
edit: OMG the pkmn gameplay video have a huge dislike views.

 

[Saber]

Sure!

From Masuda:

But with the transition to the Nintendo Switch hardware, being much more powerful [and] allowing us to be much more expressive with each of the individual Pokemon ... at Game Freak we really spent a lot of time thinking about what the best way to move forward was, really preserving the quality of all the different Pokemon while also taking into account the battle balance, having so many different Pokemon available, all within a limited development time so we don't keep fans waiting too long for every new entry in the series. And after a lot of discussion, we decided to come to a new direction.

Not sure if he's being serious or not. Either way, that gif of yours pretty much fits the bold part.

At the end of the day though everyone is going to feel differently about different games and your outrage is going to be someone else's "meh".

If you think this is just a "meh" case or a situation where only a little part of people find different about this decision, you might as well reconsider getting out of bubble and see the reaction over the media. In the mean time, just notice no one is against people being happy for this game or hyping to buy them. But no matter how people lick their boots, this is still a bad move. Theres no avoid it.

Somehow I have a feeling that no matter the reaction, this a case where "X is right and everyone is wrong". But thats just me.

 

[Fake]