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[MGR]

Are these online races using dedicated servers or are the servers just used for matchmaking?

GT5 & GT6 only ever had two options and neither were dedicated servers.
- Fixed host - more stable connectivity but potentially much more lag
- P2P - less stable connectivity but much less laggy (when it worked)

 

[JamboGT]

You can always rely on a GT thread.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

That's the spirit!

At least we had Horizon Zero Dawn this year! The game that people were pessimistic about but turned out to be stellar.

Don't fail us now Kaz, we're expected mid 80 metacritics!

 

[FrankWza]

Needed to get that off my chest, I'll show myself out now... at least until I've gotten to drive GTS first hand.

Wasn't singling anyone out. Just saying. If youre in the beta play it. Thats the only way pd can make the game better. Worked for nioh.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

LOL. The online racing is so fucking bad in this game. They seriously have their work cut out for them. I finally got pole position in an easy race, Tokyo with GR.3 cars and 2nd place just straight up drives through my car. It is insane. How is this the state of their online racing after years of development and such a limited scope of users to account for? Fucking christ. Not included in this clip is how 20 seconds later my entire engine sound cuts out. Just full on mute for three seconds. I guess that is one way to fix the bad engine noises. The main focus of this game is online racing and this is what it is like playing against other people in your region with a 37ms ping. I have participated in probably a dozen betas in the last few years, and this is by far the most broken I have seen an essential component. Alphas have been more solid than this.

Interesting case. Looks like 2nd place is clearly going faster than you and primed to overtake (he/she doesn't even brake when they get close to your car). I think you have two options here. Leave hit detection on and result in both of you crashing and perhaps getting penalised. Or allow ghosting even though over taking is a key part in racing.

 

[Septic360]

Yikes (at the quality of that video)

There's absolutely nothing in that video that would alter my opinion.



If I have time tonight I'll do an image beside image gameplay comparison of Brands Hatch..so at least it's a sim for sim. Horizon 3 during gameplay on PC would be an unfair comparison.

I'm Back* All shots are gameplay. Look at these at full res.

Gran Turismo: Sport

Forza 6

For those that need help seeing clarity and textures/detail during gameplay...

Both Images Forza (left) / GT:S Right

Like I said, at best on par..and even missing things like grass detail or a defined fence for example...not to mention a very blurry image. HOWEVER, it's a beta, and it could improve...but my opinion stands on the beta. Note: FM6 even has the glinting sun off the back of the car.





Whatever, I came back and posted like for like (as close as I can get .pngs) above after you made the above post. Detail and clarity isn't something you can argue...if you don't see it, then I can't help you

Hopefully you come back and scroll up to see me doing what I said I would.

Oh snap.

Been seeing a lot of replay and in-cockpit footage but that is a bit of an eye-opener.

Still, its a beta. I'm sure PD can work their magic in the final thing.

Question is, will this dethrone Forza from the throne? If so, we are in for a treat!

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Oh snap.

Been seeing a lot of replay and in-cockpit footage but that is a bit of an eye-opener.

Still, its a beta. I'm sure PD can work their magic in the final thing.

Question is, will this dethrone Forza from the throne? If so, we are in for a treat!

What throne is Forza sitting on?

 

[Mascot]

Do people really think that ghosting to avoid crashes is deliberate? GTS would get laughed off the planet if this was a conscious design decision.

Improve your netcode and matchmaking instead, PD. Your tracks aren't built on Indian burial grounds.

 

[David Ricardo]

Oh snap.

Been seeing a lot of replay and in-cockpit footage but that is a bit of an eye-opener.

Still, its a beta. I'm sure PD can work their magic in the final thing.

Question is, will this dethrone Forza from the throne? If so, we are in for a treat!

Look at the Forza image. Look at the rooftop of both AI cars. See how dark it is. See how bright is the grass. The cars look like they were photoshopped in.

Now look at the cars in the GT Sport pic. Aren't they beautiful?

Do people really think that ghosting to avoid crashes is deliberate? GTS would get laughed off the planet if this was a conscious design decision.

Improve your netcode and matchmaking instead, PD. Your tracks aren't built on Indian burial grounds.

It looks deliberate. It's not about netcode or matchmaking though. This substitutes the penalty system. When a car rear ends another car, it is hard to decide who's at fault. This solves the problem.

 

[Septic360]

What throne is Forza sitting on?

The racer throne? What else?

 

[FrankWza]

Do people really think that ghosting to avoid crashes is deliberate? GTS would get laughed off the planet if this was a conscious design decision.

Improve your netcode and matchmaking instead, PD. Your tracks aren't built on Indian burial grounds.

Hahaha

 

[potatohead]

Oh snap.

Been seeing a lot of replay and in-cockpit footage but that is a bit of an eye-opener.

Still, its a beta. I'm sure PD can work their magic in the final thing.

Question is, will this dethrone Forza from the throne? If so, we are in for a treat!

We're celebrating artificial looking lighting over a realistic look in a sim now?

Incroyable.

 

[sems4arsenal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRBBcJH64Jc

This is probably the best sounding car in GTSport, the mixing of the tranny whine and the engine note needs to be adjusted in the cockpit view. However, in third person view GTS weirdly is much much better.

 

[SolidSnakex]

My current car list

Just unlocked the Megane earlier today.

 

[shandy706]

What throne is Forza sitting on?

The one were those of us have a PC/X1/PS4 and can compare it to what we're seeing. Although I wouldn't call it a throne...more like parts of the castle. PD does lighting much better...they own that crown.

Look at the Forza image. Look at the rooftop of both AI cars. See how dark it is. See how bright is the grass. The cars look like they were photoshopped in.

Now look at the cars in the GT Sport pic. Aren't they beautiful?

You do realize that black line across that closest AI car is the tire wall reflection, right? The dark edge on the second car is due to the actual design of the car, lol.


Is there any news on an open beta?

We're celebrating artificial looking lighting over a realistic look in a sim now?

Incroyable.

No, we're talking track detail and accuracy to how they look design/density wise, assets, and the resolution/quality of those things. Are people really not able to follow the conversation?

99.999999999999% of us think PD lights their tracks and cars like gods.

It's a beta though, so those of us noticing these details assume it will take a leap in the final game.

 

[Bulk_Rate]

Interesting case. Looks like 2nd place is clearly going faster than you and primed to overtake (he/she doesn't even brake when they get close to your car). I think you have two options here. Leave hit detection on and result in both of you crashing and perhaps getting penalised. Or allow ghosting even though over taking is a key part in racing.

I think I may be an idiot, but I've only done one online race and my impression was that the ghosting was deliberate - not a glitch. Not saying that is good .....

 

[Darklor01]

Do people really think that ghosting to avoid crashes is deliberate? GTS would get laughed off the planet if this was a conscious design decision.

Improve your netcode and matchmaking instead, PD. Your tracks aren't built on Indian burial grounds.

LOL. Perhaps I'm ignorant, but I thought they said they were ghosting cars for those who race inappropriately. I'm just not sure what criteria make up who will be and who won't be ghosted.

As is, the ratings for drivers are messed up for those who are bumped by others.

 

[Mascot]

It looks deliberate. It's not about netcode or matchmaking though. This substitutes the penalty system. When a car rear ends another car, it is hard to decide who's at fault. This solves the problem.

I call bullshit. So what's to stop everyone from just driving through everyone else instead of actually, you know, trying to overtake them?

 

[JamboGT]

The same thing was in 5 and 6, it is there when speed differences between cars are too far apart, ie when someone is ramming/brake testing on purpose, they ghost to avoid an unfair collision. This seems to be too aggressively tuned right now. Was also something you could turn on or off in 5 and 6.

For private races for me it was always off, online with randoms it wasn't a bad idea to be honest.

Back when I worked on a racing game we were trying to do something similar in some ways. We were comparing speeds to AI speeds at that point and if it was X above or Y below the AI's speed and a collision was imminent we would ghost the perpetrator so the innocent party wouldn't be affected.

 

[Mascot]

The same thing was in 5 and 6, it is there when speed differences between cars are too far apart, ie when someone is ramming/brake testing on purpose, they ghost to avoid an unfair collision. This seems to be too aggressively tuned right now. Was also something you could turn on or off in 5 and 6.

For private races for me it was always off, online with randoms it wasn't a bad idea to be honest.

Bloody hell. I never raced online in GT5 and 6 so this is a real eye-opener to me.

Isn't it incredibly off-putting having spooky cars floating through your own vehicle at random times?

And I thought GTS had sophisticated algorithms to determine accident blame as part of their racing licence?

The whole thing seems either ill-conceived, half-assed or badly executed for an e-sports racer. Aw, who knows - it might be awesome.

 

[Risk Breaker]

The main difference I see when looking at these trees

is that GTS trees are shaded. The leaves have specular highlights when lit by the sun, and are way darker when in the shade. Meanwhile FM6 trees all look the same tone regardless of whether they're in the shade or directly lit by the sun.
Same with everything, really, GTS' lighting is just way ahead.

Yeah, GTS AA solution or whatever rendering system they are using that makes it look blurrier is not the best, but I don't think that's what the game is going for.

 

[JamboGT]

Bloody hell. I never raced online in GT5 and 6 so this is a real eye-opener to me.

Isn't it incredibly off-putting having spooky cars floating through your own at random times?

And I thought GTS had sophisticated algorithms to determine accident blame as part of their driver licence?

90% of my races had it turned off but when it did happen it was obvious that it was going to as someone had outbraked themselves so wasn't particularly random, was a lot better than being nailed off the track. Think it is something that has to be considered when you are trying to make your game fun for anyone.

I don't think it is particularly complicated, more like iRacing when contact between cars adds a point to both cars licenses.

Also as I say, this gives them a chance to tune it, it seems to trigger too easily currently, also probably will change depending on what mode/rank you are, ie better/cleaner drivers may have this turned off, that's what I would do anyway.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I call bullshit. So what's to stop everyone from just driving through everyone else instead of actually, you know, trying to overtake them?

The game calculates how fast you should be going at any particular point on the track. It's also how it handles the penalty system. If for example the game tells you that you have to give up 1.5s, that means you have to brake in an area where it drops you below the speed that you should be going in that section. If you simply brake into a corner and you're still going at the speed that you should be going, then your penalty won't reduce. So, the ghosting works similar. If you're traveling at the proper speed into a corner or in an overtake position, the game won't ghost you because you're doing what you should be doing.

 

[travisbickle]

Bloody hell. I never raced online in GT5 and 6 so this is a real eye-opener to me.

Isn't it incredibly off-putting having spooky cars floating through your own vehicle at random times?

And I thought GTS had sophisticated algorithms to determine accident blame as part of their racing licence?

The whole thing seems either ill-conceived, half-assed or badly executed for an e-sports racer. Aw, who knows - it might be awesome.

It's not random, or not supposed to be random. If someone messes up a corner like gutterboy did, then the driver behind doesn't ram into the back of him.

It's the plague of online racing, trying to get the balance between competitive racing and avoiding bad drivers.

 

[JamboGT]

And it is important to do something about it, player feedback from back when I worked on the racing game was that "cheaters" causing crashes was the biggest reason to stop playing, a combination of the driver rating and a better tuned version of this is probably for the best given the broader appeal of GT than most racing games we would compare it with.

 

[Darklor01]

The game calculates how fast you should be going at any particular point on the track. It's also how it handles the penalty system. If for example the game tells you that you have to give up 1.5s, that means you have to brake in an area where it drops you below the speed that you should be going in that section. If you simply brake into a corner and you're still going at the speed that you should be going, then your penalty won't reduce. So, the ghosting works similar. If you're traveling at the proper speed into a corner or in an overtake position, the game won't ghost you because you're doing what you should be doing.

I don't know a way around that, and it makes sense, but I don't like a game telling me how I need to handle driving. I get that it has proper speed, cornering, etc. calculations, but if I tweak a car to handle a driving situation the code doesn't account for, I should be able to drive it how I want without ghosting.

 

[Solal]

Normally, the ranking system should fix this. The better you play, the more you play with good players... no need to have this ghost thing that just kills the racing feeling.


Other people's mistakes is a big part of a race.You need to be careful and react correctly.

 

[draughn101]

It's killing me having this game on the home screen, but unable to play it. I'm still holding out hope that the "registration list" disappears and I'm able to play. I check everyday, lol.

 

[David Ricardo]

I call bullshit. So what's to stop everyone from just driving through everyone else instead of actually, you know, trying to overtake them?

I don't know exactly how it works. It seems to work when there is a big speed differential between both cars. And I only saw it working on corners. In that case, if you can overtake somebody passing through them, you are much faster than him. If you try to do the same (going at much higher speed into a corner) against a fast driver, you will go off the track.

You do realize that black line across that closest AI car is the tire wall reflection, right? The dark edge on the second car is due to the actual design of the car, lol.

Yes, I realize it's the tire wall reflection. It was the same in Forza 5. And it's wrong. If the sun is hitting the rooftop, the reflection from a tire wall 6 feet away shouldn't look like the car is under the shade of a tree.

And in the case of the second car, I know it has a small spoiler over the rear windshield. The rooftop should be brighter anyways.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I don't know a way around that, and it makes sense, but I don't like a game telling me how I need to handle driving. I get that it has proper speed, cornering, etc. calculations, but if I tweak a car to handle a driving situation the code doesn't account for, I should be able to drive it how I want without ghosting.

Presumably a person like you wouldn't be penalized for making adjustments to your car. The system is there more to prevent abuse than anything else. Racing games are unique in that unlike other competitive online games, you can literally be out of competition within second of starting. If someone runs you off a track, the chances of you making it anywhere near the top are slim to none. So, you see developers putting in measures like this so that people won't be pushed away from the online mode.

You'll also be able to disable it if you don't like it, at least in the races that aren't sanctioned by PD. So, if you can get around it if it comes across as preventing you from doing what you want.

 

[ironcreed]

I got in the beta and am just not feeling GT the way I used to. Forza has left it in the dust for me with both Motorsport and Horizon. Hell, I think I even like Project Cars more at this point.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

I know I just said, I'd shut up, but...

If you're ghosted and would have caused a crash, but now didn't, does that still lower your sportsmanship rating? Seems like the two systems are at odds in these cases.

(and personally, I'd much rather get crashed into, if I fucked up my braking point and even rather crash into someone who fucked up, than gain a position like the guy in Gutterboy44's gif did, I would feel like "gaining an unfair advantage" just blasting through the ghosted guy and the fair thing would be to give that position back, which I did plenty of times online if I forced someone to go off track by mistake)

 

[Darklor01]

Presumably a person like you wouldn't be penalized for making adjustments to your car. The system is there more to prevent abuse than anything else. Racing games are unique in that unlike other competitive online games, you can literally be out of competition within second of starting. If someone runs you off a track, the chances of you making it anywhere near the top are slim to none. So, you see developers putting in measures like this so that people won't be pushed away from the online mode.

You'll also be able to disable it if you don't like it, at least in the races that aren't sanctioned by PD. So, if you can get around it if it comes across as preventing you from doing what you want.

Ah, OK. I see what you're saying. I suck at driving, and I'm learning to tune for the game. I never used to know how to do it on my own. I've had situations in the beta where cars ghosted through me when I felt I was driving just fine in the beta, and situations I'm pretty sure I was the cause of ghosting.

I'm wondering though, if a car who's turned into a ghost for not doing something quite right purposefully drive right through someone who is doing the right things. In affect, purposefully ghosting so they can gain position?

 

[Mascot]

Normally, the ranking system should fix this. The better you play, the more you play with good players... no need to have this ghost thing that just kills the racing feeling.

Other people's mistakes is a big part of a race.You need to be careful and react correctly.

Yeah, maybe the ghosting is only in the lower tiers until you start proving your ability and earning licence progression, and then it's back to real-world physics. It'd be fucking really daft seeing cars ghosting through each other in a top-tier broadcast race.

 

[Darklor01]

Yeah, maybe the ghosting is only in the lower tiers until you start proving your ability and earning licence progression, and then it's back to real-world physics. It'd be fucking really daft seeing cars ghosting through each other in a top-tier broadcast race.

Judging by my skill level, I'll never know

 

[ironcreed]

I know it is not a proper sim, but Driveclub also looks, feels and sounds better. This just feels so 'been there, done that' and bland to me and other drivers have lapped it.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

What? Is this GT6?

Yes.

Why couldn't they deliver GT6 ver 1.00 with the motion blur in game on the PS4 Pro version?

I can't believe the best looking GT game is still GT5 Prologue.

 

[JamboGT]

Have to say, am really looking forward to Phase 2 starting, all the footage I have been watching on streams is making it hard to wait, at least now I have Persona to last me...

 

[GoldenCrow]

I know it is not a proper sim, but Driveclub also looks, feels and sounds better. This just feels so 'been there, done that' and bland to me and other drivers have lapped it.

There is only so many time you can play the same tracks with the same handling model and similar set of car for most people. The only reason I'm interested GTS is entirely due to VR, I skipped 5 and 6 as after playing the demos I realised I had played the game too much since the original, same with Forza after 3 the series lost its shine. I will always give them a chance because they are great games but roads covered by hundreds of hours of gameplay and unless there is something radically different to the games I'm unlikely to jump back into them the same way I use to.

 

[Pachimari]

Are there any Porsche cars in the beta?

 

[Omnistalgic]

I know it is not a proper sim, but Driveclub also looks, feels and sounds better. This just feels so 'been there, done that' and bland to me and other drivers have lapped it.

disagree, I have no idea what Driveclub you guys were playing, it never looked that amazing too me.

One of the instances where GAF overhyped something to death IMO. Driveclub looks/plays great, it's not some GOTY racer at all though. These replays already look way better than DriveClub to me, and 60fps is my preferences.

I haven't played GT since 5 though, so I'm ready to jump back into a PD game.

 

[Darklor01]

Are there any Porsche cars in the beta?

I haven't gotten one yet. I think the cars you get after driving the miles are currently random.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Are there any Porsche cars in the beta?

Porsche hasn't been officially confirmed for GTS yet. But Kaz was asked about the "main" car for GTS recently and he said that he wants to keep some secrets. If Porsche is in GT then I expect them to make a big deal out of it just like they did when Ferrari was finally confirmed for GT5.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

What throne is Forza sitting on?

I laughed.

 

[FrankWza]

Have to say, am really looking forward to Phase 2 starting, all the footage I have been watching on streams is making it hard to wait, at least now I have Persona to last me...

Youre not in? That sucks.

 

[JamboGT]

Youre not in? That sucks.

In EU, it has been really tough....

I do understand their reasoning at least.

 

[FrankWza]

In EU, it has been really tough....

I do understand their reasoning at least.

Would be cool if someone who hates it could just give you the access.

 

[David Ricardo]

In EU, it has been really tough....

I do understand their reasoning at least.

I am in the same boat. Although sometimes I feel I should have used my US PSN ID.

What throne is Forza sitting on?

http://www.maxim.com/news/mexico-city-metro-penis-seat-2017-3

 

[gutterboy44]

I did not even consider PD sees the ghost to pass as a "solution" and not simply a bug. If 2nd place is about to crash out of the race, just give them first place instead! Problem solved. I had assumed my ghosting incident was the result of bad netcode and the game registered a crash that caused someone to ghost which then allowed them to drive through me for position. Based on previous observations it seemed ghosting kicked in after an impact to prevent further ones, not to kick in preemptively before the first impact happens. Even this is a bad idea imo and completely removes the significance of the Sportsmanship Rating. The SR is likely to reset after beta, so maybe this was some additional measure to dial down the idiots? Who knows. Either way it degrades the experience of racing online. The cars should always behave as you'd expect with impacts, even if it occasionally fucks over people who did no wrong. That's just racing.

As for the idea of what to do with the problem of two cars going in to a corner with different speeds? That is a problem that was solved ages ago, it's called a brake pedal. That is just how racing works. If you are behind someone and cannot pass them cleanly, you slow down and plan your next move. At the start of any race in any type of vehicle on any track, if you are behind other vehicles with no clear over taking option, you have to slow down to avoid crashing or going off track. How to follow other cars is such a fundamental part of learning how to race. Even if you are in the lead, you may find yourself going through a corner slower than the limit. It is called defensive driving. You can either take a defensive line which is inherently slower, but you protect your position. Or you can intentionally enter a corner slower on the racing line, but there is no realistic place to pass and you cause the person behind to have to lift or brake past the apex where you are already accelerating.

So in my case, turns 1-4 in Tokyo are all right handers. I was in the lead and protecting the inside line through turn 1. It doesn't matter if I am going slower, that is the entire point of this tactic. You force them to either do something stupid like try the outside line and hit the wall in turn 2 or get passed by the car behind them as they sacrifice the next three corners lifting to avoid hitting the wall. Or follow me through the turn and pass me at some other point. This is this is a little concept called racing.

Not only does ghosting shit all over the basic principles of racing tactics, it complete negates the reason you add something like a Sportsmanship Rating to a racing sim. If there is a wreck and it ruins 50% of the fields race, so be it. Sometimes shit happens. But if it is all just some arbitrary dice roll of who gets god mode turned on where they can literally drive through the competition with no penalty, why even bother trying to race clean and gain SR? The SR system is what over time is supposed to separate the wheat from the chaff. It isn't correct all the time, but over time those who drive poorly will have poor SR's.

At this point, the online racing is so inconsistent I am going to assume this is all just buggy netcode and not some absurd ghost marshaling system. Even though PD does some baffling shit in their games, I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they haven't created a mechanic that negates the entire SR system, FIA flag system, and makes racing for position pointless.

Edit: There is a time in a place for ghosting actually. If a driver starts to drive in the opposite direction on the track, they should ghost and then be kicked if they continue for more than a second or two. Their intent to just fuck with people is clear if they are going around the track backwards and they should be prevented from ruining other people's race.

 

[Mascot]

*snip*

Totally agree. It seems like a very silly way of dealing with poor race craft, and teaches the offender nothing.