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[viveks86]

Vick and Bojji measuring their dicks, thats what happened papi

If the length of the posts are any indication, the women must be happy

 

[geary]

After the other thread, this one also turned into an ND jerkoff thread? It's kinda wild that the debate is about a 10-year-old game looking better than a AAA title from 2026. You're really losing it if you even entertain this idea.

 

[Represent.]

Let's leave the past, and focus on the future which of those titles are you excited about or want to see on the upcoming June showcases :-
-Gears E Day's
-Intergalactic
-Faye God of war
-Fable
-Exdous
-Harry Potter 2
-Uncharted 5
-Blood message
-Virtua Fighter VI
-Tes VI
-Wolverine
-OD
-The physint
-Resonanse
-The Witcher 4
-Cyperpunk 2 on UE6
-Black myth zhong kai
-Ill
-Others

GTA 6 is obviously everyone first choice so I take it out from list

Dont forget Phantom Blade Zero

I honestly think Black Myth: Zhong Kui will look the best from that list

Its going to absolutely crush it in the Art design department, and the technical side. The budget probably got quadroupled from what Wukong was, and look what they did with that.

 

[viveks86]

After the other thread, this one also turned into an NG jerkoff thread? It's kinda wild that the debate is about a 10-year-old game looking better than a AAA title from 2026. You're really losing it if you even entertain this idea.

If a 10 year old game is still acting as a minimum benchmark for current gen to beat, I don't see why it shouldn't be entertained.

Personally, I think comparing baked lighting versus realtime is not a fair fight. It's like comparing pre-rendered backgrounds with 3D environments back in the day. But everything else, like effects, animation, asset quality, physics, textures etc. seems fair play…

 

[Vick]

And of course we have to derail another page..

So we don't really know? Got it.

Well you didn't have any problem stating:

not Naughty Dog with unlimited budget

Entirely out of your ass.

These are the estimate, Uncharted 4 go from 50 to 90-100 million. Much less than First Light 200 million.

This is all we have. Not really sure what else could we add.

Ok, story/gameplay was rebooted (that explain a lot honestly) but do you really think they threw away all the assets, all the modeled NPCs, all the textures etc? Let's be realistic…
Show me anything that proves that the whole engine was upgraded and finalized in 2 years and that everything was produced during this timeframe. That includes texture work, NPCs, skybox etc etc... everything that's part of the visual presentation.

If you actually bothered to watch the video I posted.. you would realize that yes, that's exactly what happened.



The one Hennig was making, in very early stages, is a completely different looking game. There's footage from it across the entire video.
You can't see a single shared asset, model, texture or location from that version. The most complete level is a jungle one, and even foliage assets aren't the same.

And I don't need to post anything. You said Uncharted 4 took 5 years to make, I showed to you it was only made in 2, which has been known information for years.
You're free to check on ArtStation the date texture artists report on their work on Uncharted 4, that again looks absolutely nothing like the scrapped version.

One of the reasons it was started from scratch is precisely because the new leads thought the game looked (and played) like ass.

When you cause a lead like Hennig to leave the studio because you called what she was making "shit", while working on an entry of a series she created, you don't use stuff she was making.

If you can find a proof that all of that was made in 2 years, then fair.

There is, the video I posted.

And ArtStation artists pages.

Certainly, but you haven't addressed it.

Why would I adress factual statements in your post when I'm only correcting or adding context?

You're ignoring every bit of context because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'm the one ignoring context? Narrative?

Are you drunk or just fucking weird?

This is what you posted:

yet it's still IOI, not Naughty Dog with unlimited budget and a single platform to focus on.

And I simply added context to your post:

007 First Light costed twice as much as Uncharted 4 to make.

And 5-6 years of development versus 2.

I didn't need to adress anything else. But no, you couldn't just say "Oh well, I didn't know, nice."
No, you had to contradict me by saying Uncharted 4 took 5 years.

Uncharted 4 took 5 years. At least that's what I'm finding, so pretty much the same as Bond. And you are also purposely ignoring the fact that Uncharted had to be developed for 1 console only.

And adding nonsense about me "purposely ignoring" that Uncharted had been developed for 1 console only.

Also please it's still very annoying to navigate this thread, you need to put more images/gif under spoiler.

Tell that to Bojji that's still posting 20 pictures per post. I am not.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Let's leave the past, and focus on the future which of those titles are you excited about or want to see on the upcoming June showcases :-
-Gears E Day's
-Intergalactic
-Faye God of war
-Fable
-Exdous
-Harry Potter 2
-Uncharted 5
-Blood message
-Virtua Fighter VI
-Tes VI
-Wolverine
-OD
-The physint
-Resonanse
-The Witcher 4
-Cyperpunk 2 on UE6
-Black myth zhong kai
-Ill
-Others

GTA 6 is obviously everyone first choice so I take it out from list

Would be lovely to see some Black Myth: Zhong Kui, Witcher/Cyberpunk, next Tomb Raider and most of all Blood Message, the reveal trailer was bonkers, but doubt we will see that one any time soon. I think theres a really good chance of a Hogwarts 2 reveal soon.

 

[intbal]

Clockwork Revolution has been in production a long time, and it had a fairly lengthy trailer showed a year ago. I would expect some kind of near-final trailer for that game.
Also, Blade has been in production for two years now. It's time for some in-game material to be shown.

 

[reezoo]

Some much older stuff from the main game, although with all this recent Uncharted 4 talk I'm about to start another playthrough soon (would like to capture more of Chapter 20 as basically everything in that Chapter looks bordeline pre-rendered):

Spoiler: Few more GIFs

Spoiler: More Gameplay Screenshots

Same thing applies.. you can find spots, that usually gets posted to diminish the game, they couldn't perfectly refine where old gen lighting can't do the heavy lifting for them, as it happens with automated modern solutions.
But you could also find some abysmal looking stuff in Bond even in terms of lighting, not to mention the atrocious assets shared of Series X Quality mode and PS5 Pro in the other Thread.

You can also find bad looking assets in Uncharted, especially in terms of geometry, (not sure as bad as First Light's worst), but those were compromises necessary to make all the tech and systems ND tried to achieve in place at native 1080p, with the at the time revolutionary and never before seen on console TAA solution, at stable 30fps on a base PS4.

man really craving for new uncharted game, f**k you Sony for your GAAS BS.

 

[Gonzito]

man really craving for new uncharted game, f**k you Sony for your GAAS BS.

Same here, Sony has been retarded this whole generation. There is no excuse for making so many mistakes

 

[KyoZz]

And of course we have to derail another page..

Thanks to who?

Well you didn't have any problem stating:

Entirely out of your ass.

These are the estimate, Uncharted 4 go from 50 to 90-100 million. Much less than First Light 200 million.

This is all we have. Not really sure what else could we add.

Sure it's less than Bond. Victory for you I guess, congrats (more on that later tho )

If you actually bothered to watch the video I posted.. you would realize that yes, that's exactly what happened.



The one Hennig was making, in very early stages, is a completely different looking game. There's footage from it across the entire video.
You can't see a single shared asset, model, texture or location from that version. The most complete level is a jungle one, and even foliage assets aren't the same.

This tell me you don't know how development works. Mixing pre-alpha footage with final results and proper shading/textures applied...

And I don't need to post anything. You said Uncharted 4 took 5 years to make, I showed to you it was only made in 2, which has been known information for years.
You're free to check on ArtStation the date texture artists report on their work on Uncharted 4, that again looks absolutely nothing like the scrapped version.

One of the reasons it was started from scratch is precisely because the new leads thought the game looked (and played) like ass.

When you cause a lead like Hennig to leave the studio because you called what she was making "shit", while working on an entry of a series she created, you don't use stuff she was making.

There is, the video I posted.

So you are saying that they took 3 years to reach the greybox stage of development, then suddenly took only 2 years to build an entire game from scratch. Again you don't discard everything when you reboot, you keep as much as you can and especially assets and textures. Uncharted 4 is not the first game getting rebooted mid dev.

What we know officially is that approximately 7 to 8 months of narrative work and motion capture were abandoned, according to Nolan North himself. When Neil Druckmann and Bruce Straley took over the project, they rewrote the story, according to their own statements. Several characters were recast (not ALL), and some roles were completely changed.

However, there is no statement saying that all assets were deleted. In AAA development, this is actually quite rare. Generally game engines, tools, and systems are retained, many environmental textures, shaders and materials are reused. Generic NPC models can be recycled, secondary animations can be kept, sections of levels often serve as a basis even after a rewrite etc etc... this is why thinking that Uncharted 4 was made in 2 years is just non sense. So again, show me anything that say they discarded EVERYTHING.

You're the one making all these claims. And no, I'm not going to watch a 90 minute video just for you. Either you have a proper declaration to share or you don't.

And ArtStation artists pages.

Why would I adress factual statements in your post when I'm only correcting or adding context?

I'm the one ignoring context? Narrative?

Yes because you imply that developing a game for one console can be compared to what IOI did with 4 different versions. If you don't understand that this automatically imposes far more constraints on IO, I can't help you.

Are you drunk or just fucking weird?

Let's not get personal over a videogame please.

This is what you posted:

And I simply added context to your post:

The "unlimited budget" is just a figure of speech to point that ND had access to everything they needed, but whatever. I can tell you're not here to argue in good faith.

I didn't need to adress anything else. But no, you couldn't just say "Oh well, I didn't know, nice."
No, you had to contradict me by saying Uncharted 4 took 5 years.

And adding nonsense about me "purposely ignoring" that Uncharted had been developed for 1 console only.

Can we stop the victimization syndrome please, holy shit.

Tell that to Bojji that's still posting 20 pictures per post. I am not.

Bojji you are a mean person.

Happy now, Vick?

 

[SlimySnake]

After the other thread, this one also turned into an NG jerkoff thread? It's kinda wild that the debate is about a 10-year-old game looking better than a AAA title from 2026. You're really losing it if you even entertain this idea.

wait what thread was this? i missed it. i only posted the DF video because the market and forest scenes looked so bland in terms of lighting it was hard not to notice the difference between u4 and other modern games.

If a 10 year old game is still acting as a minimum benchmark for current gen to beat, I don't see why it shouldn't be entertained.

comparisons to last gen should be allowed but when 60% think lsast gen looks better then that becomes a whole new discussion.

 

[Msamy]

Would be lovely to see some Black Myth: Zhong Kui, Witcher/Cyberpunk, next Tomb Raider and most of all Blood Message, the reveal trailer was bonkers, but doubt we will see that one any time soon. I think theres a really good chance of a Hogwarts 2 reveal soon.

Yes, blood message pretty much confirmed to be on sgf

 

[analog_future]

Yeah, Bond is inconsistent, but Uncharted 4 definitely is too. You can cherry pick literally any game to find bad lighting or textures or shadows or whatever.


With that said, Bond definitely has it moments. The Hotel sequence I just played through was frequently impressive. Some of my shots:

 

[Msamy]

Dont forget Phantom Blade Zero

I honestly think Black Myth: Zhong Kui will look the best from that list

Its going to absolutely crush it in the Art design department, and the technical side. The budget probably got quadroupled from what Wukong was, and look what they did with that.

Yes, pretty much agree with you considering it's clearly UE6 title

 

[Represent.]

Yes, pretty much agree with you considering it's clearly UE6 title

Shit didnt even know that, thought it was still UE5

 

[TheRedRiders]

My hunch is CDPR have ported Witcher 4 to Unreal Engine 6, i'm really curious to see what kind of feature set it has beyond just a bunch of ordinary graphics terms with the word "neural" attached to them.

 

[Critical Hit]

You're all comparing Bond to Uncharted a bit too soon, we should wait for the path tracing version.

 

[SlimySnake]

wow.

My hunch is CDPR have ported Witcher 4 to Unreal Engine 6, i'm really curious to see what kind of feature set it has beyond just a bunch of ordinary graphics terms with the word "neural" attached to them.

lol thats exactly what they are going to do. AI nanite, you know its coming.

i think cyberpunk 2 will be on ue6. its probably too late for a game 6 years in dev to switch engines.

 

[Msamy]

Shit didnt even know that, thought it was still UE5

They didn't confirm it yet but considering UE6 announced already and game still in very early stage they clearly will switch to it

 

[Represent.]

Yeah, Bond is inconsistent, but Uncharted 4 definitely is too. You can cherry pick literally any game to find bad lighting or textures or shadows or whatever.


With that said, Bond definitely has it moments. The Hotel sequence I just played through was frequently impressive. Some of my shots:

Yea this section looks really good. Fucking joke you cant remove the HUD though, completely kills immersion. Big dutty stupid giant meaningless HUD in bottom left, and that text on the top right doesnt go away either. IDK WTF they were thinking.

 

[SlimySnake]

Same here, Sony has been retarded this whole generation. There is no excuse for making so many mistakes

they are making an uncharted game at nd. the lost legacy director. neil said 200 or 250 devs were on intergallactic, 150 on another game. that one is uncharted.

 

[Msamy]

Multiplayer graphics here looks significantly better than any previous COD title

 

[viveks86]

comparisons to last gen should be allowed but when 60% think lsast gen looks better then that becomes a whole new discussion.

Well, you gotta admit that they trade blows from a layperson's perspective. Especially if they don't care about what's happening under the hood. For as many shots of weaknesses you or Bojji post, Vick can post one that looks better. It's going to come down to personal biases. I'm biased against baked lighting. But another may not give a shit and what they see happening on screen while playing is all that matters to them. In that case, whoever posts more cherry picked screenshots would "win" . Probably why this is turning into a battle of attrition.

May be once PT is in place, they stop trading blows and 007 would simply be better looking at all times. But then the battlegrounds will just move away from lighting to animation, effects, object density and asset quality. PT ain't changing that.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I'm excited for Stellar Blade 2 ass direction.

 

[SlimySnake]

lol the funny thing is that first light makes great use of physics in fist fights.

 

[Vick]

Looks like we have different Uncharted 4 version. My version represents PS4 graphics quality (it's a PS4 game), your version looks like a PS6 title.

And yet I posted around a hundred media, all during gameplay, in the last page from this PS4 game.. that you're now claiming looks like a PS6 game, while also saying the same piece of software is one unimpressive PS4 game at the same time.

All I said was that your nitpick screenshots, because that's what they are, don't represent what people think when they still talk about Uncharted 4 10 years later.

This was also posted by me along with the images:

The contemporary lighting system in Bond grants more consistency, as baking can't cover 100% of your game, in every instace.

You can also find bad looking assets in Uncharted, especially in terms of geometry, (not sure as bad as First Light's worst), but those were compromises necessary to make all the tech and systems ND tried to achieve in place at native 1080p, with the at the time revolutionary and never before seen on console TAA solution, at stable 30fps on a base PS4.

But that wasn't enough for you, was it?

You just had to show how triggered you were with that post.
Now even posting cropped, zoomed in screenshots?

Edit: Random UC4 pictures I took few years ago (PS5):

Doesn't really look on par with current gen games (I think).

I guess your current gen game doesn't look very current gen either:

In your own screenshots posted to make the game look good.. imagine what I could post from the game if I would attempt to do what you are doing with Uncharted 4.

And last, about the "random" screenshots bits.. the post you quoted was explaining that people take the overall package in consideration, how the game looks in motion, and all the good stuff impossible to convey in screenshots.. so when you post that boat screenshot, you're somehow ignoring the infinite amount of boderline pre-rendered looking stuff that could be posted from that very same Chapter, literal minutes away from the goddawful screenshot you posted..

That is what people remember and cheerish about the game when they say it looks better than First Light.

I don't really get what's so hard to understand.. and this is literally the most basic and lame stuff possible, just quickly found online. I can guarantee you you have no idea what I could post from this Chapter if I wanted to "make the game look good".

Thanks to who?

A few users butthurt about Uncharted 4 being considered better looking than 007 by 65% of GAF and DF (and you have no idea what's on Instagram and mainstream socials), apparently.

So you are saying that they took 3 years to reach the greybox stage of development, then suddenly took only 2 years to build an entire game from scratch. Again you don't discard everything when you reboot, you keep as much as you can and especially assets and textures. Uncharted 4 is not the first game getting rebooted mid dev.

What we know officially is that approximately 7 to 8 months of narrative work and motion capture were abandoned, according to Nolan North himself. When Neil Druckmann and Bruce Straley took over the project, they rewrote the story, according to their own statements. Several characters were recast (not ALL), and some roles were completely changed.

However, there is no statement saying that all assets were deleted. In AAA development, this is actually quite rare. Generally game engines, tools, and systems are retained, many environmental textures, shaders and materials are reused. Generic NPC models can be recycled, secondary animations can be kept, sections of levels often serve as a basis even after a rewrite etc etc... this is why thinking that Uncharted 4 was made in 2 years is just non sense. So again, show me anything that say they discarded EVERYTHING.

You're the one making all these claims. And no, I'm not going to watch a 90 minute video just for you. Either you have a proper declaration to share or you don't.

Jesus Christ dude..

"So you're saying", "You're the one making these claims".. I am simply wasting my time informing you of what's considered common knowledge.
I have been following this game and it's development for ten years, I was there during the original Teaser, then the Druckmann Teaser, then the Corinne Yu (newly hired) post on socials media on the visual targets for the game.. I have watched, downloaded and posted on this Forum over the years every asset and texture ever shared on ArtStation, I have analyzed every pixel of this game (and I mean it):

Analysis  Thread 'Not even Naughty Dog can Remaster their own games'

Feb 4, 2022

Porting games like Uncharted 4 is not an easy task, to say the least. Especially in a relatively short time, and especially if bundled with titles such as The Lost Legacy.

However, i find fascinating how nobody spotted the huge number of little downgrades the games got in the Legacy of Thieves release, in conjunction with its improvements (which are many more Comparisons online were able to find).

So even if most of the time the game looks virtually identical/improved compared to its original Release, every kind of downgrade is featured here; from missing VFX, missing shadows...

• Vick
• Replies: 188
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

You until an hour ago didn't even fucking know there was a scrapped version, and you think you could lecture me on the subject in any way, shape or form?

There's an hour-long video showing every possible footage existing, one in vertical slice stage even. None of the assets match. Not a single plant, a single rock texture, a single NPC..

Could I swear they haven't took a single fern model, retextured and reused? No. Would that make any difference whatsoever concering a game starting development "from scratch" with new directors, new actors, new plot, entirely new locations and mechanics being developed from start to finish in two years?

NO.

These are the the GDC Uncharted 4 videos, they cover every step of the development of Uncharted 4, in order of release:

















I wonder why you only ever see the NEW Drake model and NEW Drake animations and none of the previous assets or models or locations even in complete pre-production footage, before pre-alpha..

Yes because you imply that developing a game for one console can be compared to what IOI did with 4 different versions. If you don't understand that this automatically imposes far more constraints on IO, I can't help you.

Yes, I can imagine making a modern multiplatform game with automated lighting solutions being a complete nightmare compared to the creation of a game relying entirely on careful baking of every single inch, of every location of the globe-trotting adventure while simultaneously developing proprietary tech while starting development from scratch amidst a studio restructuring. With half of the money and half of the time available.
And still delivering something that's considered better looking than the former, released 10 years after.

wait what thread was this? i missed it. i only posted the DF video because the market and forest scenes looked so bland in terms of lighting it was hard not to notice the difference between u4 and other modern games.


comparisons to last gen should be allowed but when 60% think lsast gen looks better then that becomes a whole new discussion.

Yes, most people and DF think this ↑ looks better than current gen First Light.

Not this:

Spoiler: CGI-Like GIFs

Spoiler: More Gameplay Screenshots

Always thought the only stuff that legitimately looked next gen compared to even Lost Legacy/Uncharted 4 peaks was the first Unreal Engine 5 reveal. Shame not many games lived up to it, on console.

Or the Uncharted 4 post I can't quote because.. limit of current gen looking images possible to share in a single post.

Or the literal infinite Gifs and screenshots that could be taken from the game looking current gen.. or PS6 looking, according to haters.

 

[Bojji]

And yet I posted around a hundred media, all during gameplay, in the last page from this PS4 game.. that you're now claiming looks like a PS6 game, while also saying the same piece of software is one unimpressive PS4 game at the same time.

It looks like a PS6 game to you, I don't see current gen quality on your screenshots (not to mention next gen). And tiny gifs can make Killzone 2 the best looking shooter ever made.

I have UC4 installed on PS5 Pro and Bond on PC, I don't need anyone else to show me screenshots and explain why game X looks better than game Y. Uncharted was a great looking game in PS4 gen and that remains true, Bond is a good looking game for this gen, but current (non PT) version is not close to the best looking games we have right now. We have no other "Uncharted style" games so that's why these comparisons are being made.

Edit: There are many PC people that do the same thing with RDR2 and I fight them as well, RDR2 doesn't look as good as top current gen games. Don't take it personally Vick

 

[Cumulus]

opening this thread after a short break....

 

[Killer8]

It'll be really funny after all the posting of blurry washing machines if we realize half the niggas in this thread have malfunctioning VRAM.

 

[TheRedRiders]

It'll be really funny after all the posting of blurry washing machines if we realize half the niggas in this thread have malfunctioning VRAM.

 

[KyoZz]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Could I swear they haven't took a single fern model, retextured and reused? No.

And this is it. Thank you everyone for your participation we can now move on.

Spoiler: Now for the long response:

A few users butthurt about Uncharted 4 being considered better looking than 007 by 65% of GAF and DF (and you have no idea what's on Instagram and mainstream socials), apparently.

Yeah I can see this really triggered you.

Jesus Christ dude..

"So you're saying", "You're the one making these claims".. I am simply wasting my time informing you of what's considered common knowledge.

Not really, it's not because you're an hardcore fan of Uncharted that it's the case for everyone.

I have been following this game and it's development for ten years, I was there during the original Teaser, then the Druckmann Teaser, then the Corinne Yu (newly hired) post on socials media on the visual targets for the game.. I have watched, downloaded and posted on this Forum over the years every asset and texture ever shared on ArtStation, I have analyzed every pixel of this game (and I mean it):

Analysis  Thread 'Not even Naughty Dog can Remaster their own games'

Feb 4, 2022

Porting games like Uncharted 4 is not an easy task, to say the least. Especially in a relatively short time, and especially if bundled with titles such as The Lost Legacy.

However, i find fascinating how nobody spotted the huge number of little downgrades the games got in the Legacy of Thieves release, in conjunction with its improvements (which are many more Comparisons online were able to find).

So even if most of the time the game looks virtually identical/improved compared to its original Release, every kind of downgrade is featured here; from missing VFX, missing shadows...

• Vick
• Replies: 188
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

And yet you still have plenty to learn apparently.

You until an hour ago didn't even fucking know there was a scrapped version, and you think you could lecture me on the subject in any way, shape or form?

There's an hour-long video showing every possible footage existing, one in vertical slice stage even. None of the assets match. Not a single plant, a single rock texture, a single NPC..

You can look at pretty much every early footage like that. That doesn't necessarily mean Naughty Dog threw away everything. Visible assets are only a fraction of a game's content.
AAA project also contains engine code, rendering features (this one is very important), tools animation systems, AI behaviors, physics systems, UI frameworks, motion-capture pipelines

A lot of that work can survive a creative reboot without being visible to players. Also do you know the difference between a mesh and a finalized asset? This is generally the kind of thing that gets reused. If they already have five fully finished chairs, there is absolutely NO REASON to remake them (simple example, but you get the idea).
This is why they were able to finish the game in 2 years. You don't develop something with the scale of Uncharted 4 in 2 years. That's just not a thing, you can be mad at me if you want that won't change reality.

By the time a project ships, reused assets can be impossible to identify from footage alone. Not to mention that what we have is not representative of the entire project, the public material from the Hennig version is surprisingly limited considering how long it was in development.
Even the vertical slice footage represents only a curated portion of the game. There may have been dozens of levels, props and systems never shown publicly. Some of those could have survived into the final game.

Would that make any difference whatsoever concering a game starting development "from scratch" with new directors, new actors, new plot, entirely new locations and mechanics being developed from start to finish in two years?
NO.

Of course it would make a difference, because that would mean they didn't start FROM SCRATCH. Which is my point. So again, thank you for admitting that ultimately you didn't know.

Now if you can make 2+ 2 I'm sure you understand that 2 years is obviously way too short to develop something like Uncharted 4 from scratch. If it was that easy we would be at Uncharted 10 by now and every studio would pump out games left and right.

These are the the GDC Uncharted 4 videos, they cover every step of the development of Uncharted 4, in order of release:

















I wonder why you only ever see the NEW Drake model and NEW Drake animations and none of the previous assets or models or locations even in complete pre-productionfootage, before pre-alpha..

I don't work at ND. Ask the devs?

Yes, I can imagine making a modern multiplatform game with automated lighting solutions being a complete nightmare compared to the creation of a game relying entirely on careful baking of every single inch, of every location of the globe-trotting adventure while simultaneously developing proprietary tech while starting development from scratch amidst a studio restructuring. With half of the money and half of the time available.
And still delivering something that's considered better looking than the former, released 10 years after.

IMO (and remember I don't have any horse in this shit) I think they both have their strengths and weakness. Uncharted is still impressive but it has it's limits. As soon as you look at shadowed places it really show it's age for example.

Yes, most people and DF think this ↑ looks better than current gen First Light.

Not this:

I already told you I don't really like the Glacier Engine and I'm also let down by 007 graphics. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.

Or the Uncharted 4 post I can't quote because.. limit of current gen looking images possible to share in a single post.

Please don't, it's terrible enough to navigate the last page.

Or the literal infinite Gifs and screenshots that could be taken from the game looking current gen.. or PS6 looking, according to haters.

I'm not interested in your little war.

 

[Buggy Loop]

OMFG

 

[Bojji]

 

[analog_future]

lol the funny thing is that first light makes great use of physics in fist fights.

This is why gamers are known as such insufferable twats. Enjoy the game instead of whining about a fucking traffic cone

 

[FalconPunch]

This is why gamers are know as such insufferable twats. Enjoy the game instead of whining about a fucking traffic cone

Such a ridiculous take.... The point is that a 2008 game that ran on a system with 512 mb of ram should have 0 categories in which it's superior to a game released in 2026.

The simple truth is that the spirit of craftsmanship and pride in one's work seen in old games have disappeared from many games today. There was a period where developers were hyper focused on reactivity in the game world. Those days are long gone.

 

[Killer8]

To be fair that is really how bad the Jaguar EV looks:

 

[analog_future]

There was a period where developers were hyper focused on reactivity in the game world. Those days are long gone.

Not remotely true. There was a small, miniscule percentage of developers/games that were focused on what you're describing. Just like today.

The vast majority of games of yesteryear had clipping, invisible walls, unexplorable areas, basic AI, stiff animations, poor physics, etc.. etc.. etc..


The whole rose-tinted "they don't make games the way they did back in my day" bullshit is so tiresome.

 

[T4keD0wN]

There was a period where developers were hyper focused on reactivity in the game world.

 

[SlimySnake]

lol same

 

[SlimySnake]

OMFG

around two years ago, corporal hicks went full vick on vick, and the back and forth turned into the most autistic argument ive evr seen on forums. evilore was tagged to help settle the dispute after nearly 200 gifs and 1000 pics were posted. and no im not exaggerating. i ended up recording it on my phone just to show how long it took to scroll through just one of these posts. 1 minute and 30 seconds!!! for 1 single post. without reading any of it, just scrolling on mobile.



insane. i was on team corporalhicks but i had to put both on ignore for the sake of my mobile browsing experience. hicks is banned but i see vicks has learned nothing.

Analysis  Thread '[Threat Interactive] Dynamic lightning was better nine year ago | A warning about 9th gen neglect.'

Dec 3, 2024

Nice channel I stumbled while ago about SH2 situation.

Seems to connect to this vid



While also pointing out the errors in this vid.

Apparently they take optimalization seriously and are working on their own UE5 fork since it's industry standard and want to fix it. Worth a watch.

• BeardSpike
• Replies: 357
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 

 

[SlimySnake]

i like how there is a light source right on top of the car but the interior doesnt get lit, no reflections to speak of either.

meanwhile, worst engine of all time:

 

[viveks86]

To be fair that is really how bad the Jaguar EV looks:

Ahhh. So that's what the cars looked like after this… whatever this was:

 

[Bojji]

i like how there is a light source right on top of the car but the interior doesnt get lit, no reflections to speak of either.

meanwhile, worst engine of all time:

Yeah, low res cube maps are killing this game. UE5 has that HW Lumen advantage (+ nanite, VSMs and better textures) but Bond at least isn't stuttering.

 

[FalconPunch]

Not remotely true. There was a small, miniscule percentage of developers/games that were focused on what you're describing. Just like today.

The vast majority of games of yesteryear had clipping, invisible walls, unexplorable areas, basic AI, stiff animations, poor physics, etc.. etc.. etc..


The whole rose-tinted "they don't make games the way they did back in my day" bullshit is so tiresome.

During the era of far cry 2, the first far cry, etc. There was a focus on reactivity in game worlds. There was a systems driven approach to designing games.

I still play many of those games on pc and still marvel at how far they are ahead of the sterile sets that are game environments today.

 

[SlimySnake]

Not remotely true. There was a small, miniscule percentage of developers/games that were focused on what you're describing. Just like today.

The vast majority of games of yesteryear had clipping, invisible walls, unexplorable areas, basic AI, stiff animations, poor physics, etc.. etc.. etc..


The whole rose-tinted "they don't make games the way they did back in my day" bullshit is so tiresome.

here is the thing, bond is that game thats bringing back the enviormental interactivity we saw in a select few games that gen. namely sleeping dogs and uncharted 3.

this was literally just recommended to me on twitter. gta4 with all its fancy physics didnt have any of this. we got this in crysis 1, u3 and sleeping dogs.

 

[anyasok]

During the era of far cry 2, the first far cry, etc. There was a focus on reactivity in game worlds. There was a systems driven approach to designing games.

I still play many of those games on pc and still marvel at how far they are ahead of the sterile sets that are game environments today.

Do you have a list of such games?

 

[analog_future]

here is the thing, bond is that game thats bringing back the enviormental interactivity we saw in a select few games that gen. namely sleeping dogs and uncharted 3.

this was literally just recommended to me on twitter. gta4 with all its fancy physics didnt have any of this. we got this in crysis 1, u3 and sleeping dogs.

yeah but that random traffic cone didn't tip over. game is shit

 

[KyoZz]

around two years ago, corporal hicks went full vick on vick, and the back and forth turned into the most autistic argument ive evr seen on forums. evilore was tagged to help settle the dispute after nearly 200 gifs and 1000 pics were posted. and no im not exaggerating. i ended up recording it on my phone just to show how long it took to scroll through just one of these posts. 1 minute and 30 seconds!!! for 1 single post. without reading any of it, just scrolling on mobile.



insane. i was on team corporalhicks but i had to put both on ignore for the sake of my mobile browsing experience. hicks is banned but i see vicks has learned nothing.

Analysis  Thread '[Threat Interactive] Dynamic lightning was better nine year ago | A warning about 9th gen neglect.'

Dec 3, 2024

Nice channel I stumbled while ago about SH2 situation.

Seems to connect to this vid



While also pointing out the errors in this vid.

Apparently they take optimalization seriously and are working on their own UE5 fork since it's industry standard and want to fix it. Worth a watch.

• BeardSpike
• Replies: 357
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 

You should have warned us sooner, this is really frightening behavior. What the actual fuck
I suggest we avoid mentioning Uncharted in this thread so it's not triggering... all of this. Seems like a very sensitive subject.

Vick forget about everything I said, and forget about me. You are right, I was wrong.

Just please, no more screenshots.

 

[Vick]

around two years ago, corporal hicks went full vick on vick, and the back and forth turned into the most autistic argument ive evr seen on forums. evilore was tagged to help settle the dispute after nearly 200 gifs and 1000 pics were posted. and no im not exaggerating. i ended up recording it on my phone just to show how long it took to scroll through just one of these posts. 1 minute and 30 seconds!!! for 1 single post. without reading any of it, just scrolling on mobile.



insane. i was on team corporalhicks but i had to put both on ignore for the sake of my mobile browsing experience.

Nice Ban bait and Thread derail attempt.

The audacity after it was your getting triggered by DF's take of Uncharted 4 looking better than 007 that started this whole argument.

hicks is banned but i see vicks has learned nothing.

If I were a grown ass man unashamed to admit getting emotional with stuff like Mixtape, buying every modern piece of software in existence no matter how trash just to satisfy graphic whore needs.. wasting unholy portions of his life confined in a single, safe Thread on a gaming forum while passing every opinion of his no matter how ludicrous as facts with not a single "In my opinion" ever posted in his life.. I just wouldn't be feeling in the position to lecture anyone, on anything.. ever.
It is nothing short of astounding that you do instead.

What should I learn? I overlook you from skyscraper heights in every single facet of life.

Congrats for reopening the discussion again, I guess..

Well, you gotta admit that they trade blows from a layperson's perspective.

Forgive me but it's not very humble of you to consider 65% of GAF and DF "laypersons".

Perhaps you could entertain the possibility they are seeing something you fail to see. Or having different priorities.

specially if they don't care about what's happening under the hood. For as many shots of weaknesses you or Bojji post, Vick can post one that looks better. It's going to come down to personal biases. I'm biased against baked lighting. But another may not give a shit and what they see happening on screen while playing is all that matters to them. In that case, whoever posts more cherry picked screenshots would "win" . Probably why this is turning into a battle of attrition.

I can definitely confirm you're among the most biased against baked lighting users on GAF. What's ironic is that I am too, reason why the only technically impressive stuff in the Naughty Dog 2016 game for me, aside from the volumetric shadows and artifact-free AO.. and motion blending and SSS on vegetation, is their dynamic bounce, despite the many compromises that contemporary solution cause, especially on these weak consoles that weren't even really conceived as RT machines.

I just won't pretend not to be impressed by what was accomplished 10 years ago on 2013 cheap hardware when real-time Ray Tracing wasn't even a thought, and wouldn't have been for the next 4 years.

Nor would I ever feel the desire to downplay it. Because I would feel like a loser doing so.

It looks like a PS6 game to you,

Huh?

Looks like we have different Uncharted 4 version. My version represents PS4 graphics quality (it's a PS4 game), your version looks like a PS6 title.

I never mentioned PS6. Only you did.

You're not making sense.

And tiny gifs can make Killzone 2 the best looking shooter ever made.

Yes, always the same excuse that only ever made sense with 720p FXAA/MSAA x2 games from the PS3/360 era, or even Driveclub due to AA.

Only you, and ironically SlimySnake , could publicly claim this:

With drastically reduced gamut, contrast, resolution, no HDR, 18fps looks better than when it was running at native 4K 60fps HDR.

Or this:

Or this:

And on and on for every single GIF shared.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

And this is it. Thank you everyone for your participation we can now move on.

You didn't even realize half the stuff you quoted was directed towards another user.. that I was quoting directly.

Yeah I can see this really triggered you.

Why would I possibly be triggered by the fact a PS4 game, that I own, is considered by 65% of GAF and Digital Foundry better looking than a 2026 game that I am about to purchase?

Please explain.

You can look at pretty much every early footage like that. That doesn't necessarily mean Naughty Dog threw away everything. Visible assets are only a fraction of a game's content.

No one ever said they threw away everything, just that the game development started from scratch. Which is the term every single source uses.
When you change the story (of a narrative-driven game), rewrite all dialogues, change all locations, scrap all existing levels, change animations, recast main characters like Sam and Rafe, and introduce whole new ones.. it doesn't matter what you retain, you are effectively starting again. Stop hanging on little minutiae.

AAA project also contains engine code, rendering features (this one is very important), tools animation systems, AI behaviors, physics systems, UI frameworks, motion-capture pipelines

Oh so you're telling me IO Interactive threw away everything they've ever done, especially considering that unlike Naughty Dog they weren't transitioning from two architectures that couldn't possibly be any different like PS3 to PS4, and made everything that composes First Light from zero?
Didn't use ANY of the things you mention from their previous countless Hitman games.. every single element across the entire spectrum used to produce the game, even "stuff you can't see", falls within the 5 years development?

I don't think there's less difference between Hennig Uncharted and Druckmann/Straley version than there is from the latest Hitman to First Light.

All things you mention have been shown and discussed in the videos I linked before, depicting material from the current game, current Nate model, current locations from even pre-production phase.

Here another, with full dates on every footage so you can see that every single thing concering the newly made Uncharted 4, started indeed from scratch.

Term used by the video itself by the way:

So now that the original project was starting over from scratch, what did the new leads actually change from AM's original vision? And how do they rebuild the game with a completely new narrative and design?
The decision to effectively restart development in 2014 meant that Duckman and Streley had less than 2 years to complete a game

Uncharted 4 preliminary version of the new model, never seen in Hennig version footage, in basic animations tests, 4 months after Hennig departure:

Check the dates, Hennig left ND in March 2014.

State of the first levels being developed 10 months after Hennig departure:

State of the game one year and one month after Hennig departure (and one year and one month before release):

The above is just two months before reveal:



State of the game a year and four months after her departure (9 months before release):

According to the video the the idea of a Madascar chase and some basic character concepts were retained from the Hennig version.

"Only certain elements remained, like the Madagascar chase scene, and some basic character concepts."

And this is said Madascar chase a whole year after she left and yet only 3 months before being fully finished in the E3 reveal.

One developer later mentions:

"Uncharted 4's reboot suffered from a chaotic production cycle where features were being built and tested simultaneously with level design. The need to finalize systems like the grappling hook, sliding, and open-ended exploration in Madagascar, for example, put enormous strain on designers and QA alike. It's worth noting that these gameplay features were holdovers from Henning's original vision, but had to be reintegrated into an entirely new story framework."

So gameplay features like sliding, the grappling hook and the concept of more open levels were also in Hennig version. Deveped as concepts from 2011 to 2014:

"From November of 2011 to March of 2014, Amy Henning and her teams actively developed preliminary concepts and gameplay ideas for Uncharted 4."

A lot of that work can survive a creative reboot without being visible to players. Also do you know the difference between a mesh and a finalized asset? This is generally the kind of thing that gets reused. If they already have five fully finished chairs, there is absolutely NO REASON to remake them (simple example, but you get the idea).

There is a reason, if you consider the events that took place at the studio and the figures involved.

You have an egomaniac like Druckmann forcing Hennig out of the studio. He will make his team cry and sweat blood, just NOT to use stuff that the person you forced out was doing, and that you publicly called SHIT.

Are you familiar with the subject, even in the slightest? If you are, you know it's 100% possible he would purposely avoid re-using any asset just out of spite.

And the full detriment of the game mind you. The rocks in the Henning version, near the sea, look much better than the ones in the final game in both textures and geometry.

This is why they were able to finish the game in 2 years.

No, they were able to finish the game in 2 years by crunching and overworking to death and back.

"This reboot meant they had to build a brand new AAA game in about 18 months, which is unheard of in the AAA space, even at the time. Pressure from Sony to release the game fast played a key factor in the strict timeline here as well. Given these requirements, there's only one solution that the higher-ups saw as the way forward. And unfortunately, it's a solution that's been normalized across the entire gaming industry.
The shift in leadership and the complete reboot of the game's narrative had massive ripple effects across the studio, particularly in how work was conducted. With less than two years to build a AAA title from scratch, Naughty Dog entered what employees later described as a brutal period of crunch culture. Developers worked long hours, weekends, and holidays just to keep the project on track. Some insiders reported 60 to 80our work weeks becoming the norm with mounting pressure from Sony to deliver on time. While Naughty Dog had consistently produced critically acclaimed games, it has also gained a notoriety for its intense work environment. Uncharted 4 and the development of the game was no exception."

"A normal work week for us was 10:00 a.m. to 1000 p.m. 6 days a week, and we didn't really have any choice about it. Sometimes we'd stay until midnight or 1:00 a.m. And at the end of Uncharted 4, we started doing 7-day work weeks for a little while and even did some 24-hour shifts where we'd come in at 10:00 a.m. and leave at 10:00 a.m. the next day. I didn't really have life outside of work for 8 to 9 months during the big crunch."

You don't develop something with the scale of Uncharted 4 in 2 years. That's just not a thing, you can be mad at me if you want that won't change reality.

And yet, there it was, reality.

Has been a thing indeed.

Now if you can make 2+ 2 I'm sure you understand that 2 years is obviously way too short to develop something like Uncharted 4 from scratch. If it was that easy we would be at Uncharted 10 by now and every studio would pump out games left and right.

That's just Naughty Dog efficiency, before Druckmann destroyed the studio.

In 6 years they made:

2007: Uncharted: Drake's Fortune

2009: Uncharted 2: Among Thieves + Multiplayer

2011: Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception + Multiplayer

2013: The Last of Us + Multiplayer

In the next 6 years:

2016: Uncharted 4: A Thief's End + Multiplayer

2017: Uncharted: The Lost Legacy

2020: The Last of Us: Part II.

The latter being a game that's three times as big and complex as Uncharted 4.

 

[KyoZz]

Nice Ban bait and Thread derail attempt.

The audacity after it was your getting triggered by DF's take of Uncharted 4 looking better than 007 that started this whole argument.


If I were a grown ass man unashamed to admit getting emotional with stuff like Mixtape, buying every modern piece of software in existence no matter how trash just to satisfy graphic whore needs.. wasting unholy portions of his life confined in a single, safe Thread on a gaming forum while passing every opinion of his no matter how ludicrous as facts with not a single "In my opinion" ever posted in his life.. I just wouldn't be feeling in the position to lecture anyone, on anything.. ever.
It is nothing short of astounding that you do instead.

What should I learn? I overlook you from skyscraper heights in every single facet of life.

Congrats for reopening the discussion again, I guess..


Forgive me but it's not very humble of you to consider 65% of GAF and DF "laypersons".

Perhaps you could entertain the possibility they are seeing something you fail to see. Or having different priorities.


I can definitely confirm you're among the most biased against baked lighting users on GAF. What's ironic is that I am too, reason why the only technically impressive stuff in the Naughty Dog 2016 game for me, aside from the volumetric shadows and artifact-free AO.. and motion blending and SSS on vegetation, is their dynamic bounce, despite the many compromises that contemporary solution cause, especially on these weak consoles that weren't even really conceived as RT machines.

I just won't pretend not to be impressed by what was accomplished 10 years ago on 2013 cheap hardware when real-time Ray Tracing wasn't even a thought, and wouldn't have been for the next 4 years.

Nor would I ever feel the desire to downplay it. Because I would feel like a loser doing so.



Huh?



I never mentioned PS6. Only you did.

You're not making sense.


Yes, always the same excuse that only ever made sense with 720p FXAA/MSAA x2 games from the PS3/360 era, or even Driveclub due to AA.

Only you, and ironically SlimySnake , could publicly claim this:

With drastically reduced gamut, contrast, resolution, no HDR, 18fps looks better than when it was running at native 4K 60fps HDR.

Or this:

Or this:

And on and on for every single GIF shared.

You didn't even realize half the stuff you quoted was directed towards another user.. that I was quoting directly.


Why would I possibly be triggered by the fact a PS4 game, that I own, is considered by 65% of GAF and Digital Foundry better looking than a 2026 game that I am about to purchase?

Please explain.


No one ever said they threw away everything, just that the game development started from scratch. Which is the term every single source uses.
When you change the story (of a narrative-driven game), rewrite all dialogues, change all locations, scrap all existing levels, change animations, recast main characters like Sam and Rafe, and introduce whole new ones.. it doesn't matter what you retain, you are effectively starting again. Stop hanging on little minutiae.


Oh so you're telling me IO Interactive threw away everything they've ever done, especially considering that unlike Naughty Dog they weren't transitioning from two architectures that couldn't possibly be any different like PS3 to PS4, and made everything that composes First Light from zero?
Didn't use ANY of the things you mention from their previous countless Hitman games.. every single element across the entire spectrum used to produce the game, even "stuff you can't see", falls within the 5 years development?

I don't think there's less difference between Hennig Uncharted and Druckmann/Straley version than there is from the latest Hitman to First Light.

All things you mention have been shown and discussed in the videos I linked before, depicting material from the current game, current Nate model, current locations from even pre-production phase.

Here another, with full dates on every footage so you can see that every single thing concering the newly made Uncharted 4, started indeed from scratch.

Term used by the video itself by the way:





Uncharted 4 preliminary version of the new model, never seen in Hennig version footage, in basic animations tests, 4 months after Hennig departure:

Check the dates, Hennig left ND in March 2014.

State of the first levels being developed 10 months after Hennig departure:

State of the game one year and one month after Hennig departure (and one year and one month before release):

The above is just two months before reveal:



State of the game a year and four months after her departure (9 months before release):

According to the video the the idea of a Madascar chase and some basic character concepts were retained from the Hennig version.

"Only certain elements remained, like the Madagascar chase scene, and some basic character concepts."

And this is said Madascar chase a whole year after she left and yet only 3 months before being fully finished in the E3 reveal.

One developer later mentions:

"Uncharted 4's reboot suffered from a chaotic production cycle where features were being built and tested simultaneously with level design. The need to finalize systems like the grappling hook, sliding, and open-ended exploration in Madagascar, for example, put enormous strain on designers and QA alike. It's worth noting that these gameplay features were holdovers from Henning's original vision, but had to be reintegrated into an entirely new story framework."

So gameplay features like sliding, the grappling hook and the concept of more open levels were also in Hennig version. Deveped as concepts from 2011 to 2014:

"From November of 2011 to March of 2014, Amy Henning and her teams actively developed preliminary concepts and gameplay ideas for Uncharted 4."


There is a reason, if you consider the events that took place at the studio and the figures involved.

You have an egomaniac like Druckmann forcing Hennig out of the studio. He will make his team cry and sweat blood, just NOT to use stuff that the person you forced out was doing, and that you publicly called SHIT.

Are you familiar with the subject, even in the slightest? If you are, you know it's 100% possible he would purposely avoid re-using any asset just out of spite.

And the full detriment of the game mind you. The rocks in the Henning version, near the sea, look much better than the ones in the final game in both textures and geometry.


No, they were able to finish the game in 2 years by crunching and overworking to death and back.

"This reboot meant they had to build a brand new AAA game in about 18 months, which is unheard of in the AAA space, even at the time. Pressure from Sony to release the game fast played a key factor in the strict timeline here as well. Given these requirements, there's only one solution that the higher-ups saw as the way forward. And unfortunately, it's a solution that's been normalized across the entire gaming industry.
The shift in leadership and the complete reboot of the game's narrative had massive ripple effects across the studio, particularly in how work was conducted. With less than two years to build a AAA title from scratch, Naughty Dog entered what employees later described as a brutal period of crunch culture. Developers worked long hours, weekends, and holidays just to keep the project on track. Some insiders reported 60 to 80our work weeks becoming the norm with mounting pressure from Sony to deliver on time. While Naughty Dog had consistently produced critically acclaimed games, it has also gained a notoriety for its intense work environment. Uncharted 4 and the development of the game was no exception."

"A normal work week for us was 10:00 a.m. to 1000 p.m. 6 days a week, and we didn't really have any choice about it. Sometimes we'd stay until midnight or 1:00 a.m. And at the end of Uncharted 4, we started doing 7-day work weeks for a little while and even did some 24-hour shifts where we'd come in at 10:00 a.m. and leave at 10:00 a.m. the next day. I didn't really have life outside of work for 8 to 9 months during the big crunch."


And yet, there it was, reality.

Has been a thing indeed.


That's just Naughty Dog efficiency, before Druckmann destroyed the studio.

In 6 years they made:

2007: Uncharted: Drake's Fortune

2009: Uncharted 2: Among Thieves + Multiplayer

2011: Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception + Multiplayer

2013: The Last of Us + Multiplayer

In the next 6 years:

2016: Uncharted 4: A Thief's End + Multiplayer

2017: Uncharted: The Lost Legacy

2020: The Last of Us: Part II.

The latter being a game that's three times as big and complex as Uncharted 4.

Whatever helps you sleep at night buddy