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GT5 News - Nurburgring update (pre-E3 edition)
- Thread starter Niks
- Start date
brotkasten
Member
Firewire said:
It's not only a visual thing, but also a detail and I just don't get how a game, which has so many details, lacks something as simple as tire marks. I completely agree that they should spend their resources on important and useful things, but that's clearly not their strength. They spend resources on far less important things than tire marks and I just can't see how something like that is so time-consuming.
Metalmurphy
Member
I also dont "get" why they don't do it. Hell even NFS2 back at 1997 had it. Maybe the first one had it too, I just don't remember it.
But it's also a thing that doesn't really bother me considering you already do see tire marks on the track just like the real tracks.
I must admit however, for people wanting to make those cool youtube videos of drifting and such, it might look weird not seeing them. But that's the only downside I can think of.
But it's also a thing that doesn't really bother me considering you already do see tire marks on the track just like the real tracks.
I must admit however, for people wanting to make those cool youtube videos of drifting and such, it might look weird not seeing them. But that's the only downside I can think of.
hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
Iknos said:
Zuh? GT4 did quite swell in capturing the driving surface of Nur (especially if you had a wheel). Far better than many of its contemporaries, even years later (*cough*).
Hard to tell if its been improved upon, could be the physics being more reactive in general (lateral weight transfer for ex).
brotkasten said:
Just a hunch but their ram budgets are probably always strained pretty good. If its not something they prioritized earlier it may be an annoying layer they don't want to bother with, figuring the canned marks do the job.
I'd certainly like to see it there, more real-time elements the better. But its likely not a 'flip the switch' kind of thing.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Iknos said:
Throw enough shit against the wall and something is bound to stick.
Handycrap101
Banned
Loudninja said:
...and resourcefully taxing.
I talked to a dev. He told me.
Firewire said:
I think the problem with the track and skid marks is that it requires all 16 cars on track to be really tracked all the time. Then add a layer of skidmarks to the track, a layer that changes in real time and can be infinitely sized.
Many games do skidmarks that fade away after either some time or more tracks are laid down. Sort of like shooting games and decal limits. Your bullet holes will only stick around for so much time before more recent holes are made.
I don't think adding fading or disappearing skidmarks is something Kaz wanted to do as its not real at all, its worse than no skidmarks in my opinion. And perhaps permanent skidmarks was too taxing to do.
RustyNails
Member
Truly a class you're displaying here.chespace said:
brotkasten
Member
AndyD said:
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
Thanks for the explanation, both of you.
So it's a limitation of RAM? *bams*, problem solved. I didn't know that and now I can completely understand that. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't really bother me, I just didn't "get" it and that was pretty annoying.
That's your opinion.Loudninja said:
Firewire said:
When I talked about resources, I thought of things like money and man-power and how they wasted it on something like this. I really didn't think of something as simple as a limitation of RAM. But now that you mention it, how about that detailed and blinking driver and his stunning animations, that are only visible during the replays? Not really necessary, isn't it?
Baki said:
And that's what we love about Gran Turismo.
AranhaHunter
Banned
chespace said:
Wonder why you were so scared to take that bet.....
AranhaHunter
Banned
Slayer-33 said:
Sure, that's why he didn't acknowledge the bet until now. Do you even know what the bet was supposed to be?
Metalmurphy
Member
What translation? The article was in plain english, and it was removed. Think that pretty much says everything.Slayer-33 said:
GTA4 isn't a racing game...MDJCM said:
Do you guys have any idea how rare it is for a car to leave tire marks during a race? I mean besides the obvious locations that already have pre-baked tiremarks on GT5.
brotkasten said:
It depends. Its not that easy. You only see driver animations in angles that don't show the track or the outside of the car that much. So maybe the textures and detail that would go into the track or the outside of the car are used for the animations.
That may not leave any for the skidmarks in the outside view. Think of skidmarks in every single angle during driving that shows the road. Then think of something you can take out of each of those images in order to make room for skidmarks.
Metalmurphy
Member
mil6es said:
That was even funnier during E3, were Forza fans kept asking for Che to clear some stuff up and the first thing he does is troll GT5 after playing it at E3.
Metalmurphy said:
Keep mentioning eh? I've only mentioned it once...just recently. And I'm deriding some of its features and I only bring it up to speak about console racing sims in general.
You're trying to spin things here...why?
Talking about how he was crucified over the whole release date debate late last year. He was one of the few saying it was not a 09 release and he stuck to his guns. And he was right.
Plenty of the closer angles show low poly corners. Thought that it was fairly obvious. Do I need to post examples?
Defending...what?
Amar and I are talking about demands from hardcore fans. The entire damage ordeal has caught on among the media and mainstream gamers. I'm sure Kaz was sick of the media asking about damage over and over. He didn't really need to put it in the game because the lack of it wouldn't have hurt sales.
Unfortunately I don't see the mainstream media on Kaz's case when it comes to having a robust online modes.
I get the feeling that PD is going to have a great if not adequate online mode. Just using that as a hypothetical example and not as a prejudgment against it.
saladine1 said:
Thought Race Pro was pretty good.
Hoping that GT's online mode is at least as good as RP's.
Firewire said:
It is incredibly useful when racing especially against human opponents.
Maybe you are too used to playing against the AI which rarely lock up their brakes but if you are tailing someone its useful to see their brake lights come on don't you agree?
Same thing. If their lights come on and you see tire marks you know that they are pushing their friction circle and could have locked up. From that point you get a whole lot more information about how your opponent took the corner so you can overtake them.
They locked up so they will probably take the corner wide if they manage to keep it on the track so you can take the inside.
Without tire marks you don't know if they are braking normally or locking up because they were too fast on entering the corner. In past GT games smoke effects helped but its not as "precise" as seeing exactly where they locked up.
For the record I think that other racers are sometimes too liberal in laying down rubber onto the track...PD's attention to realism could have led to an impressive and realistic looking application of this feature.
Truespeed said:
PGR and many other racers have night and weather and skid marks. It's not so much a comparison as it is that we want to see GT to look less sterile and provide a bit more visual feedback when it comes to racing.
It's not really a RAM issue. It's a priority issue. Certain games prioritize different aspects of the game.
Race Pro and Ferrari/Supercar Challenge don't run at 60fps but they have more cars on track than say Forza 3 which does run at 60fps. Different priorities.
Forza 3 has incredibly detailed tracks with long draw distances...multiple tracks are over 14km...but the car detail is nothing compared to GT5. Different mindsets at work here.
GT5 has incredibly detailed drivers that no other racer has...but no tire marks. If there was enough RAM to have these detailed drivers...they could have swapped it for tire marks.
Tire marks are one aspect. There are many aspects the game could look better...kicked up dirt and tire smoke could look better. I really hope that on the Rally tracks there are fewer cars but more detailed dirt effects. Don't need 16 cars for Rally anyways.
Not really pushing for tire marks either. PD has their own gameplan and executing it. I have other bigger concerns for GT5. It's just an example I brought up where people will defend the lack of a feature when they really shouldn't be because it's standard. Forza's online mode is worse than Forza 2's and not up to a standard set by other racers like Race Pro. There is no reason to defend it.
The same applies to the lack of tire marks. I know some people disagree with having those in the game but I would at least hope you would admit that if PD did put it in the game the game would look more dynamic and less sterile and PD could potentially do an awesome job of it.
The attention and detail they put into the drivers should be an indication as to how potentially awesome it could be.
Don't want to clutter this thread with a debate we already had. Can we agree to disagree everyone?
My post is too fucking long :lol this has to end.
MM said:
Tire marks would add to vids where you take a car on a test drive on the Top Gear Test Track.
The way GT5 handles videos and pics is pretty slick and I think I'm going to get deep into taking pics and vids. Got a nice SLR camera as a gift and I'm learning the ropes...might want to take a hand at making some slick GT movies.
Just got windows 7 too. The slideshow desktop feature is great and I can't wait to have a bunch of slick GT5 HD pics as my wallpapers. The GT5 pic thread is going to be great.
Trickster
Member
Damn, I stopped reading GT5 topics months back because of all the stupid fanboy crap from both GT and FM fanboys. I come back and not a fucking thing has changed, fucking hell people...
Didn't a mod even make a FM3 vs GT5 topic so that the GT5 topics could actually be about GT5 and the same for FM3?
Didn't a mod even make a FM3 vs GT5 topic so that the GT5 topics could actually be about GT5 and the same for FM3?
iceatcs
Junior Member
I think there is nothing system war going on here apart Che thing, it's more like wish-list discussion and people discuss about their wish-list and why it should be higher priority or not for GT5.Trickster said:
This happened because we don't have real info/preview from them yet hence unless topic will start.
Everything is possible can be done in GT5, but it is just time consuming.
If there's anything that's shitting this thread up it's the people complaining about the posts they see.
There was a post where someone didn't like the trees and then 50 posts after where they were talking about that post.
Discuss the topic and not people's posts...this thread would be a lot cleaner.
There was a post where someone didn't like the trees and then 50 posts after where they were talking about that post.
Discuss the topic and not people's posts...this thread would be a lot cleaner.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
It's not the real deal.-viper- said:
Metalmurphy
Member
You know you didn't mention it just once...Iknos said:
You were the one that thought I was talking about Forza so who is exactly spinning things here?Iknos said:
Then why would you bring a thing from last year when he was obviously not being "crucified" for it now?Iknos said:
Please do, and while ur at it, go look at other games and you'll see exactly the same, the white lines are perfect, the borders sometimes aren't perfect circles but they're pretty damn close.Iknos said:
Iknos said:
Of all the people to post such a statement! /jkIknos said:
In regards to your response to my post on skid marks, if you need visual clues to determine a a cars breaking approach there are better visual clues to look at. I know you know what they might be for various circumstances, so I don't know why you play up these comments on such things.
Oh and I pretty much only play online against real people, I actually hope to have some friendly races with you when GT5 hits, I always like challenging opponents.
RustyNails
Member
spats said:
pwn
Dreams-Visions
Member
looking good.
Metalmurphy said:
You are right...all games are like this but it's noticeably worse in these leaked GT5 vids which is why I mentioned it.
Firewire said:
I don't think there are better cues...but that's my perspective. You are right there are a few other things you can look at but the tire marks are a real good indication.
Previous GT games you looked at the tire smoke and that was a good cue but there is something far more precise and immediate about seeing tire marks.
I look forward to it. My gut tells me that GT5 will have a competent online mode. Despite what we saw in Prologue I think we will see modes that are more robust and as I mentioned comparable to Race Pro.
For the most part I'll be sticking to LAN but I'd like to make some online racing vids too.
I'd like to think of myself being a challenging opponent but I know there are a good number of great GAF drivers who are better than me.
deepbrown said:
Certainly do. Think of it as a necessary evil.
Metalmurphy
Member
Is it? I can't tell the difference. I notice the difference on the rails, but not on the track...Iknos said:
Metalmurphy said:
It could be just the angle I'm seeing things from.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YZCTHVRdvI
44 seconds into the vid. Could be because of an unflattering angle we are seeing it from.
Or it could be like I said that they wanted to be able to get those wide sweeping replay shots so they didn't go all out on the polys.
1:31 - 1:50 is an epic replay angle. If some of the rally tracks had that sort of helicopter replay angle it would be heavenly.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Holy shit, not even slowing down, he must be full mode on tunnel vision.deepbrown said: