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[Bebpo]

I agree with jarrod...the 2D/2D style games are probably not going to be that welcome on the PS3 or 360 all that much, as long as they dare to be non-digitally distributed titles over PSN and Live Arcade.

Yep, nobody would ever want to play 2D games on a console that can do great 3D games. The makers of those consoles would push really hard not to allow these "ugly" 2D games to disgrace their great 3D console.

It's too bad that all the great 2D games in the last 7 years have had to be Saturn-only releases since the DC was obviously too good at 3D to allow 2d titles...as was the PS2!

...and yes, we had people like jarrod saying the exact same thing when the PS2 came out and we see how that turned out!

 

[Kreed]

Although, it smacks of suspicion because I cant see the game working without a GC/Classic controller: unless they bundled one with the game (doubtful), they wouldnt be forcing people to buy a seperate controller to play the game, does the Wii controller even have enough buttons?

Likely Guilty Gear would have a similar setup with the Wii-mote as the DBZ Wii game and the upcoming Mortal Kombat title, with moves being set to different motions of the Wiimote/Nunchuk.

In terms of buttons, if you include the Nunchuk, the Wii has two less buttons than the 360 controller. Add in the motion features and the Wii-mote set up should be covered.

 

[cvxfreak]

The Wii is winning the next-gen race in Japan and that's probably not going to change. That alone should make Japanese publishers rethink their strategies for bringing games to certain systems. I wouldn't use past trends to dismiss the liklihood of games coming to the Wii.

 

[wsippel]

The Wii is winning the next-gen race in Japan and that's probably not going to change. That alone should make Japanese publishers rethink their strategies for bringing games to certain systems. I wouldn't use past trends to dismiss the liklihood of games coming to the Wii.

As far as I know, Nintendo also offers or plans to offer a cheap Wii-based arcade platform. Now that Naomi is pretty much dead, this might be an interesting solution for companies like ArcSys or Cave, which should lead to even more arcade games on Wii.

Also, after googling a few more minutes, it seems PS2 gets Slash and Wii gets Accent Core a few months later...

 

[TreIII]

...and yes, we had people like jarrod saying the exact same thing when the PS2 came out and we see how that turned out!

Granted, your line of though may have been spot on...were that we're not in age where a supposed "HD standard" now exists.

Now that we have that, that's all the more reason for 2D/2D style games to have even less of a "presence" on some consoles rather than others. I highly doubt that the likes of Banpresto would be hard-pressed to completely devote themselves to making High-def sprites for their 2D games, just for sake of adhering to HD standards for PS3 and 360 (and as such drive up their own costs), when the sprite sets they're using currently can probably fly for the likes of the PS2 and Wii alike for another matter of years.

There may not be so much of a need for a "scapegoat" like SCEA to be such a burden on 2D devs and their fanbases any more, but the "standard" will definitely turn away many a developer, forcing them to either go for digital distributions like "Castle Crashers", go for something like ASW's Battle Fantasia or simply find another place to roost to sell their wares.

And again, unless Battle Fantasia really comes out strong by its official release in another few months, it may be quite a while before such a graphical style may be embraced as a sort of "alternative"...

 

[Bebpo]

The Wii is winning the next-gen race in Japan and that's probably not going to change. That alone should make Japanese publishers rethink their strategies for bringing games to certain systems. I wouldn't use past trends to dismiss the liklihood of games coming to the Wii.

Yet, there are some titles that are strongly aimed at certain systems. When Arc System decides to make an arcade game in 720p, it makes more sense for consumers to get an arcade perfect version on a system that can handle it.

This is like saying if PSP was the market leader, games like Ouendan/EBA should go to PSP instead of DS and just get a downgraded port with touch removed.

Granted, your line of though may have been spot on...were that we're not in age where a supposed "HD standard" now exists.

Now that we have that, that's all the more reason for 2D/2D style games to have even less of a "presence" on some consoles rather than others. I highly doubt that the likes of Banpresto would be hard-pressed to completely devote themselves to making High-def sprites for their 2D games, just for sake of adhering to HD standards for PS3 and 360 (and as such drive up their own costs), when the sprite sets they're using currently can probably fly for the likes of the PS2 and Wii alike for another matter of years.

There may not be so much of a need for a "scapegoat" like SCEA to be such a burden on 2D devs and their fanbases any more, but the "standard" will definitely turn away many a developer, forcing them to either go for digital distributions like "Castle Crashers", go for something like ASW's Battle Fantasia or simply find another place to roost to sell their wares.

And again, unless Battle Fantasia really comes out strong by its official release in another few months, it may be quite a while before such a graphical style may be embraced as a sort of "alternative"...

There is no "HD standard" when it comes to 2d games and 2.5D games can obviously be rendered in HD with no problem. Do you think N1's PS3 SRPG is going to be a jump from sub 320x240 sprites to 1280 x 720 sprites? At best N1 will attempt 640x480 sprites, but most likely they will continue to use their 320x240 sprites on PS3. It's likely they'll just have an option for "display" that allows users to play at a scaled 720p (default) or original resolution.

Anyhow, I'm sure GG XXAC is going to Wii, and probably PS2 as well. But I'm pretty sure BF is going X360/PS3.

 

[Lyte Edge]

Just like Metal Slug Anthology right? As far as I know, 6 is fresh out of arcades, too.

Nope, it's not. Metal Slug 6 hit arcades early 2006, around February or March as I recall. The game was then officially announced by SNK as coming out for the Playstation 2, which it did in Summer 2006. It wasn't until later on that the game was then announced for, and released almost six months later for the Wii as part of the anthology. Metal Slug is also not a part of this discussion. An action game like MS has a lot more appeal to a broader audience than a fighting game does, which is the point of this discussion.

"Fresh out of the arcades" means a game just came out. And that's GG AC. It's too early for talk of home ports just yet. It's obvious the game will come out later on though...that's a given. The trend has been Arcade -> PS2 -> PC (although not for Slash) -> PSP with ports. If the game is really coming out for Wii and even more especially if they attempt to give it some sort of Wii control scheme, there's no way in hell it's coming out this year, especially in English.

I'm not in denial over the game being a Wii release or anything like that, I just won't believe it until I see something concrete and official is all.

A small update from Aksys: In October 2006, Game Crazy had Aksys listed as the US publisher for "Guilty Gear Series" on PS2 and Wii. They basically denied it back then on their forum, stating that any official game announcements would be on their website. And now, some months later, this pops up on Gamefly - with a real title of a game that actually exists (instead of just "series"), on one of the platforms mentioned last October, once again published by Aksys...

Some links:
http://www.aksysgl.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31 <- Aksys' "denial" from October 2006
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-40-49-en-70-1sru.html <- Guilty Gear XX Slash for PS2, published by Aksys

That Play-Asia list says it comes out this week. That's clearly not happening either. Who knows what's going on. Perhaps they are attempting to get publishing rights but something is stopping them.

Likely Guilty Gear would have a similar setup with the Wii-mote as the DBZ Wii game and the upcoming Mortal Kombat title, with moves being set to different motions of the Wiimote/Nunchuk.

In terms of buttons, if you include the Nunchuk, the Wii has two less buttons than the 360 controller. Add in the motion features and the Wii-mote set up should be covered.

I just can't see any type of Wii control setup working for Guilty Gear without them making a completely different game out of it. GG is far too fast-paced and full of multi-hit ground and air combos, plus cancels, counters and the like for it work with the Wiimote in its original form.

 

[Bebpo]

Also, I'd like to ask. For all the 2d enthusiasts (shmups/fighters/gust/n1/flightplan) who believe these games won't be possible on any system other than Wii because of the HD issue. What do you propose will happen next-gen when Wii 2 is a 720p or 1080p machine as is Sony/MS? Do you think that will be the ultimate death of 2d gaming forever and no 2d titles will ever appear on home consoles again?

 

[ccbfan]

Anyone whose played GG should know its impossible to play using the regular Wii controller. It'll be worse than playing CVS 2 using that retard GC mode.

GG is one of those fighters that prides itself in stuff like pixel counts and frame counts. The whole idea of FRC(False Roman Cancels) are when you cancel a move within a few frames with a Roman Cancel. Plus you need 5 buttons and 4 of them needs to be pressed at the same time.

I personally can't imagine doing Axl classic rushdown in Axl bomber loop with the Wii controller. (Heck I could barely do it with a control pad)

Dash 3K, [4], S, S, 6S, FRC, Dash, [K, S, 923H] repeat

It'd need to be like the DS GG to work on the Wii. Comparing GG to MK and DBZ it like comparing Chess to Checkers.

 

[wsippel]

That Play-Asia list says it comes out this week. That's clearly not happening either. Who knows what's going on. Perhaps they are attempting to get publishing rights but something is stopping them.

I think they have the publishing rights already. Aksys was listed as the US publisher for Guilty Gear in October 2006 after all. Maybe the localization simply isn't done yet, or early February was never more than an estimate or a placeholder date. Maybe they scrapped Slash in favor of Accent Core. Maybe SCEA didn't approve the game. Or maybe it's nothing more than a huge conspiracy.

 

[ccbfan]

Also, I'd like to ask. For all the 2d enthusiasts (shmups/fighters/gust/n1/flightplan) who believe these games won't be possible on any system other than Wii because of the HD issue. What do you propose will happen next-gen when Wii 2 is a 720p or 1080p machine as is Sony/MS? Do you think that will be the ultimate death of 2d gaming forever and no 2d titles will ever appear on home consoles again?

I don't know where you get your info from but I don't know any shump and fighting game enthusiast that wants them to be on the Wii and I know some of the best fighting gamers in America.

 

[TreIII]

Do you think N1's PS3 SRPG is going to be a jump from sub 320x240 sprites to 1280 x 720 sprites? At best N1 will attempt 640x480 sprites, but most likely they will continue to use their 320x240 sprites on PS3. It's likely they'll just have an option for "display" that allows users to play at a scaled 720p (default) or original resolution.

Honestly? I'm not even sure if they'll stick with sprites (though it would be interesting if they did). I'm halfway expecting them to come out the gate with something more akin to Rumble Fish's take on making a "2D" title, which will still allow them to more or less stick with what they know works, but could stand to be upscaled for the sake of looking better in a HD resolution, all while using a technique that's still much less taxing than making a brand new series of sprite sheet from scratch.

I mean, let's be honest. N1 enjoys a good following, but they don't exactly have that much money to throw around, nor the manpower, such that they could dedicate themselves to making a fresh batch of HD-ready sprites. If Banpresto doesn't (and they actually HAVE one of the biggest publishers in Japan, Bandai-Namco, on their side) I doubt N1 would.

Also, I'd like to ask. For all the 2d enthusiasts (shmups/fighters/gust/n1/flightplan) who believe these games won't be possible on any system other than Wii because of the HD issue. What do you propose will happen next-gen when Wii 2 is a 720p or 1080p machine as is Sony/MS? Do you think that will be the ultimate death of 2d gaming forever and no 2d titles will ever appear on home consoles again?

Well, that depends.

If, come a few years from now, the likes of SNK, ASW, Treasure and the various makers of turn-based SRPGs and/or shmups are fully ready to jump to HD ready sprites, because the technology would (ideally) be cheaper, more wide-spread and they would be ready to play catch up, then so be it.

However, if that is not the case, then the 2D developers would just have to face up and either come up with another means to stay true to what they want, or they may have to indeed compromise their wants to stay in the business. Or, they could just fold.

2D gaming is just going to keep shrinking as the market for it shrinks, and the costs of making game rise. So, it'll definitely be interesting, any where from like 5-10 years from now, how many of the dedicated 2D makers will be left, and who else we'll unfortunately be saying goodbye to as time goes on...

 

[Bebpo]

I don't know where you get your info from but I don't know any shump and fighting game enthusiast that wants them to be on the Wii and I know some of the best fighting gamers in America.

Actually, for shmups there is a decent case in that PS3 forces 320x240i -> 640x480i and since the shmup players are such a small hardcore group, that not having perfect resolution on PS3/X360 makes Wii the prime candidate. Plus shmups usually only use a d-pad/stick + 2/3 buttons, something totally perfect for the Wii.

2d fighting games OTOH are still bought and played by a huge variety of people, and they don't seem to be as much of videophiles regarding 240i vs. 480i. I'm a pretty big videophile, yet playing Dodonpachi Daioujou or Disgaea 2 at 480i on the PS3 still looks normal/fine IMO. Is it slightly less pixely...yeah, but it's not a huge issue that should keep 2d games off the system IMO.

 

[cvxfreak]

Yet, there are some titles that are strongly aimed at certain systems. When Arc System decides to make an arcade game in 720p, it makes more sense for consumers to get an arcade perfect version on a system that can handle it.

This is like saying if PSP was the market leader, games like Ouendan/EBA should go to PSP instead of DS and just get a downgraded port with touch removed.

I was talking about Accent Core actually. Unless I missed something and that game MUST be played in HD.

 

[Bebpo]

Honestly? I'm not even sure if they'll stick with sprites (though it would be interesting if they did). I'm halfway expecting them to come out the gate with something more akin to Rumble Fish's take on making a "2D" title, which will still allow them to more or less stick with what they know works, but could stand to be upscaled for the sake of looking better in a HD resolution, all while using a technique that's still much less taxing than making a brand new series of sprite sheet from scratch.

I mean, let's be honest. N1 enjoys a good following, but they don't exactly have that much money to throw around, nor the manpower, such that they could dedicate themselves to making a fresh batch of HD-ready sprites. If Banpresto doesn't (and they actually HAVE one of the biggest publishers in Japan, Bandai-Namco, on their side) I doubt N1 would.

But 2d can be upscaled without filters just as well as cell-shaded 3d...

For example. Open up a NES emulator. Stick in a game (that you own). Then tell it to resize (without filters) to the resolution of your monitor (1024 or 1280 or something). Poof! A 320x240 game appears in HD resolution and still looks nice and pixely and pretty darn close to the original product! There's no reason why N1 can't just scale/resize their 320x240 games to 720p.

Well, that depends.

If, come a few years from now, the likes of SNK, ASW, Treasure and the various makers of turn-based SRPGs and/or shmups are fully ready to jump to HD ready sprites, because the technology would (ideally) be cheaper, more wide-spread and they would be ready to play catch up, then so be it.

However, if that is not the case, then the 2D developers would just have to face up and either come up with another means to stay true to what they want, or they may have to indeed compromise their wants to stay in the business. Or, they could just fold.

2D gaming is just going to keep shrinking as the market for it shrinks, and the costs of making game rise. So, it'll definitely be interesting, any where from like 5-10 years from now, how many of the dedicated 2D makers will be left, and who else we'll unfortunately be saying goodbye to as time goes on...

Vague answer

 

[Bebpo]

I was talking about Accent Core actually. Unless I missed something and that game MUST be played in HD.

Yeah, mixed communication in this thread.

Accent Core is Wii almost for sure I'd wager. The only question is if it plays well enough on the classic controller or if Ascii is gonna need to release a 6 button saturn pad (for those who prefer pads to sticks for 2d fighters).

 

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, mixed communication in this thread.

Accent Core is Wii almost for sure I'd wager. The only question is if it plays well enough on the classic controller or if Ascii is gonna need to release a 6 button saturn pad (for those who prefer pads to sticks for 2d fighters).

Not only fighting games and potential future Saturn titles but all N64 games and Genesis games that use the 6-button controller (or 3-button games where you just want the proper horizonal button layout without resorting to the GC controller's somewhat odd layout for such things) would be very, VERY happy if someone would do that... I was very dissapointed when they showed only a 4-button "classic controller" for some systems that had more, and it would be really, really nice if something was done about that.

 

[drohne]

mihara, the ceo of arika, mentioned wii as well as 360 and ps3 when he said that it'd be difficult to publish ketsui on a newer console. i wouldn't assume that wii is an appropriate destination for old-school 2d games simply because it's underpowered.

 

[Somnid]

Newer 2-D will end up using vector graphics, much like you see in games like Alien Hominid and Paper Mario. There's not much left for sprites because doing huge sprites is just too costly for the market it targets. Upscaling or playing in "stretch mode" isn't going to go over well with people either, if you bought a PS3 it probably wasn't because you were looking for N1 titles, you were going high-def. PS2's 2-D dev following will end up on the Wii as it's looking to take over Japan and doesn't mandate high-definition. Once Wii is dead though, all that's left for sprite art is portables.

 

[TreIII]

But 2d can be upscaled without filters just as well as cell-shaded 3d...

For example. Open up a NES emulator. Stick in a game (that you own). Then tell it to resize (without filters) to the resolution of your monitor (1024 or 1280 or something). Poof! A 320x240 game appears in HD resolution and still looks nice and pixely and pretty darn close to the original product! There's no reason why N1 can't just scale/resize their 320x240 games to 720p.

Well, then the problem just becomes...does it look good like that?

No matter how many times I may upscale Super Mario Bros. (NES)...it still looks like pixelated crap. Upscaling the resolution will not make it look any better. In fact, it arguably makes it look worse.

It's the same thing for games that have been released recently. Super Robot Wars @3 looks like crap when it's upscaled, because the sprites simply were not meant for the higher resolution.

So, what it really comes down to, is being able to make the sprites look good in a higher resolution. THAT is where the main problem comes in. You can't just upscale and expect results; you gotta actually make those sprites with that higher resolution in mind. Are N1 and such other companies up to that task? Maybe so, but I don't think they'll all be jumping at the bit to prove themselves, either.

Vague answer

Unfortunately, that's the best answer that I think could be given. Because, let's be real: if there's any "genre" of games that are practically on the "species endangered list", it would probably be those that pertain to 2D/2D style gameplay. Their future will always be one that will have the Sword of Damocles hovering ever so precariously over its head, just because their future is by no means guaranteed.

 

[EverSoTrendy]

Wow

 

[cvxfreak]

mihara, the ceo of arika, mentioned wii as well as 360 and ps3 when he said that it'd be difficult to publish ketsui on a newer console. i wouldn't assume that wii is an appropriate destination for old-school 2d games simply because it's underpowered.

I think everyone should make assumptions based on its status as the Japanese market leader rather than the hardware's performance level.

 

[ccbfan]

The majority of the fighters and shumps are still going to go PS2.

Unlike previous generations, console hardware is far ahead of the technology needed for 2d fighters and shumps that last gen hardware is strong enough.

PS2 is going to be the hardest last gen system ever to kick out IMO.

 

[drohne]

market leadership has never predicted where 2d shooters go, at least -- megadrive and pce had far more than sf, saturn had more than playstation, dreamcast has about as many as ps2, psp has far more than ds.

edit: i don't know what's going to happen with 2d shooters this gen, but 360 looks like the early favorite -- it's already got senkou no ronde, and iuchi's team at treasure is working on something. those are hi-def polygonal games, though. i wonder if microsoft would permit low-res 2d releases, at least in japan -- it's not like they're in any position to be choosy.

 

[CO_Andy]

market leadership has never predicted where 2d shooters go, at least -- megadrive and pce had far more than sf, saturn had more than playstation, dreamcast has about as many as ps2, psp has far more than ds.

Seems to always be the machine that's easiest to program.

 

[Dali]

Well, for one simple reason...the Taito X2. A number of the companies that once made their homes on the likes of the Naomi-class hardware are going to be jumping ship to that hardware rather soon, and with that, changes the face of the playing field once again.

Once the likes of ArcSys and SNKP truly utilize the hardware to its 2D pushing best, the PS2 is going to be an even less reasonable console of choice than when it was barely able to support the Taito X. At its best, I could imagine maybe KOF12 getting a release on the PS2 too, but only because my gut instincts tell me that particular game is probably not going to push the Taito X2 to its limits any more than SNKP's first effort on the Atomiswave did. But once they get more proficient with the hardware (and possibly pull out all the stops for the likes of a possible MOTW sequel), the PS2 just isn't going to cut the mustard any more.

So, unless they're up to the idea of butchering up the games for a lower-end console in such ways that haven't been seen since the 16bit era, the PS2 is going to eventually have to give up the ghost, and its title of being the "number 1 console stronghold for (non-digitally distributed) 2D games" of this particular generation. And in my eyes, the Wii is looking to be the console that may end up being the successor of this title. I agree with jarrod...the 2D/2D style games are probably not going to be that welcome on the PS3 or 360 all that much, as long as they dare to be non-digitally distributed titles over PSN and Live Arcade.

And again, I guess I must be on to something, because again, at least SNKP is seemingly leaning in that overall direction.



Well, that was pretty much a no-brainer. I was just saddened in the sole fact that, as of yet, BF has yet to really catch on in Japan. Maybe some are reluctant to come back to it after the "Fatal Error" incident back a few months ago? I dunno... :lol

I made a similar argument a while back:

Games like Suikoden, Tales, Megaten, anime licensed games, and sprite based games (rpg's, strategy etc) are best served on the Wii (oh yeah and schmups). If a game like Disagea was peddled on the PS3, even with high-res sprites it would get laughed at. That's why I say the Wii will have a 'PS2-like' library.

I doubt Arc has the Wii in mind when it comes to BF, but I feel like the Wii will be the new home of small niche titles (such as Katamari), as the PS2 was before it. As far as 2d sprite-based fighters, I think they will get ported to any system that can handle them - including 360, PS3, PS2 (until it is completely dead), and Wii. That's just using the last gen as a guide, when most 2d sprite-based fighters were ported to both the Xbox and PS2.

 

[wsippel]

market leadership has never predicted where 2d shooters go, at least -- megadrive and pce had far more than sf, saturn had more than playstation, dreamcast has about as many as ps2, psp has far more than ds.

This was most likely because many 2D developers used arcade platforms very similar to SEGAs home consoles, like Naomi. Except for PSP vs. DS, of course. It partially depends on whether or not 2D developers will use Nintendos Wii-based arcade platform in the future.

 

[jarrod]

Come on...GAME FLY is the first to get the release date for a game that hasn't even been announced for a home platform in Japan yet? 7/30? ENGLISH version? Yeah, not happening. And what company is "Aksys?" I could only find one title from "Aksys Games" called "Eagle Eye Golf."

Show me a Japanese announcement (since that would clearly come first) and I'll believe it.

Well the last two Guilty Gear releases (Dust Strikers & Judgement) were announced for America first... maybe Majesco's bankrolling this one too? It'd make some sense looking at the rest of their library being largely JP pickups (BAM Bash, Cooking Mama CO) one of which hasn't even been announced for Japan yet.

What do the US policies have to do with a fighting game that makes the most of its sales in Japan?

Plus MS rejects nothing. Anything can come out on the X360, even Onechanbara is coming out in the US.

Tell that to NeoGeo Battle Coliseum.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Online + classic controller pleaaase, but who am I kidding?

 

[Bebpo]

Tell that to NeoGeo Battle Coliseum.

That never even came out in Japan. It was not rejected by MS US.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Wait Onechanbara is coming to the US? This is....news...not sure if it's good or bad.

Not sure why Sega/Sammy/Arc plans to port Accent Core to the Wii when all of their previous releases were on the PS2.

Hopefully somebody develops a good stick by the time this game comes out...

 

[jarrod]

That never even came out in Japan. It was not rejected by MS US.

Oh sorry... I didn't realize your "MS rejects nothing" was referring just to the USA. NGBC is on "indefinite hold" cheifly due to Microsoft's resolution standards.

 

[Kreed]

It'd need to be like the DS GG to work on the Wii. Comparing GG to MK and DBZ it like comparing Chess to Checkers.

Who compared Guilty Gear to DBZ and Mortal Kombat? I just gave an example of how the game would likely control using the Wii-Mote.

Also the Wii-mote set up would likely be targeted at casual gamers/new Guilty Gear players anyway. The developers know that most Guilty Gear fans will want Classic Control support anyway, regardless of how well the Wii-Mote may or may not work with the game.

 

[drohne]

This was most likely because many 2D developers used arcade platforms very similar to SEGAs home consoles, like Naomi.

no, that only explains dreamcast. megadrive had a family resemblance to common arcade hardware of the time, but relatively few of its shooters were ports anyway. if there's a general trend, it seems like shooter developers use the most capable hardware for their purposes.

 

[jarrod]

I figured we'd be past controller arguments by this point... isn't the requisite response just "buy a dedicated stick" anyway when these narrowminded replies bubble up?

At least Nintendo offers a traditional, widespread solution in the CC. Controller arguments against fighters going to Wii are pretty much null and void.

 

[jarrod]

no, that only explains dreamcast. megadrive had a family resemblance to common arcade hardware of the time, but relatively few of its shooters were ports anyway. if there's a general trend, it seems like shooter developers use the most capable hardware for their purposes.

Relatively few of it's shooters were 3rd party either... virtually everything came from SEGA, SEGA associated developers (Nextech, Tecnosoft, Compile, Game Arts, Treasure, etc) or Namco while they were on the outs with Nintendo.

Really though, SFC had far more shooters than MD, even including SEGA's efforts. Genesis/MD is generally better regarded in the west among fans, but it had significantly fewer genre releases in Japan versus Super Famicom. Famicom was pretty shooter loaded also, quite competitively with other formats of the day (MSX/2, PC-88, Mark III, etc).

 

[wsippel]

no, that only explains dreamcast. megadrive had a family resemblance to common arcade hardware of the time, but relatively few of its shooters were ports anyway. if there's a general trend, it seems like shooter developers use the most capable hardware for their purposes.

That doesn't seem to explain the large number of shooters for PS2 and Dreamcast, the two least powerful and capable last-gen systems. I'd say Dreamcast was supported because of Naomi, and PS2 was supported because of the market share.

 

[KTallguy]

No need for the classic controller here ... just tilt the Wiimote Excitetruck style and play that way. You have the 2 side buttons for weak punch/kick moves and then tilt the controller left/right or forward/back for strong punch/kick ... eh?

:lol

If this appears on Wii, then a controller pack-in is a must.

And for people saying that 2D fighters can't work on Xbox 360/PS3, PSN and Xbox Live Marketplace say hello.

 

[Link316]

Seems to always be the machine that's easiest to program.

not really, the Saturn got more than the PS1, and the PS2 got way more than the GC

 

[TreIII]

:lol
And for people saying that 2D fighters can't work on Xbox 360/PS3, PSN and Xbox Live Marketplace say hello.

For older titles from the likes of the CPS1 and 2, and maybe Neo-Geo up to like the late 90s? Possibly so.

...But why would the devs behind 2D fighters resort to such a means, for newer games developed in the last 5 years, and even moreso for titles that stand to be created with the dawn of new hardware like the Taito X2?

I mean, first there's probably the thing of how big of a filesize could be alloted for such a game. That alone would probably put a damper on the parade of larger sized games like KOF XI, SS: Tenka and 3S.

Secondly, since the "download service" thing is still a relatively new thing for consoles, I can't imagine it as being an ideal thing to reach as large of an audience as possible, especially in Japan. The technology is just not wide-spread enough yet to warrant such a thing.

Not to mention that I think Arc Systems and SNKP probably won't even relish the idea for their newer wares for a good, long while any way...

 

[drohne]

Relatively few of it's shooters were 3rd party either... virtually everything came from SEGA, SEGA associated developers (Nextech, Tecnosoft, Compile, Game Arts, Treasure, etc) or Namco while they were on the outs with Nintendo.

not really -- of that list, only nextech and treasure had their games published by sega in japan...and neither of them produced a shmup on megadrive. tecnosoft published their own games, toaplan published compile's musha aleste, etc.

i think the list of sega-produced shmups on megadrive is just crying and darwin 40-whatever.

you might have a point in terms of sheer quantity of releases, though -- i wonder if ps1 didn't ultimately pass up saturn with all its late-cycle budget releases. some of which were actually great.

 

[wsippel]

And for people saying that 2D fighters can't work on Xbox 360/PS3, PSN and Xbox Live Marketplace say hello.

I doubt those games are really all that well suited for digital distribution. We're not talking about decade old classics after all. I don't hink Treasure or ArcSys are interested in selling their games for a few Dollars each, and I for one want my game on a disk. Well, maybe that's just me...

 

[jarrod]

not really -- of that list, only nextech and treasure had their games published by sega in japan...and neither of them produced a shmup on megadrive. tecnosoft published their own games, toaplan published compile's musha aleste, etc.

I didn't intend "SEGA associated" to be strictly limited to publishing deals... SEGA attracted a lot of Japanese computer developers away from platforms like MSX and PC-88 by providing the stability of a console architecture with favorable licensing terms. SEGA was also rather close to Tecnosoft (published Thunderforce AC) and Compile (via Puyo Puyo).

As an aside, Ranger X and Gunstar Heroes might not apply as classic shmups in the most traditional sense, but they're certainly shooters.

you might have a point in terms of sheer quantity of releases, though -- i wonder if ps1 didn't ultimately pass up saturn with all its late-cycle budget releases. some of which were actually great.

PlayStation also seemed to get more original efforts (Gradius Gaiden, R-Type Delta, Philosoma, etc) while Saturn saw nothing but arcade ports for the most part. The only original semi-high profile Saturn shooter I can think of is Thunderforce V, and even that made it's way to PS1 anyway.

This sort of applies to PS2 (versus DC) actually, though as the genre declines, we seem to see fewer such original entries (Gradius & R-Type sequels are the only ones that really jump out at me on PS2... I guess there's that Choaniki game too).

 

[jarrod]

Come on...GAME FLY is the first to get the release date for a game that hasn't even been announced for a home platform in Japan yet? 7/30? ENGLISH version? Yeah, not happening. And what company is "Aksys?" I could only find one title from "Aksys Games" called "Eagle Eye Golf."

Show me a Japanese announcement (since that would clearly come first) and I'll believe it.

Eagle Eye Golf is a conversion of Telenet's Enjoy Golf.

Also, seems a few Aksys releases are now popping up on retail lists...

02.27.07 Gish (PSP)
05.29.07 Title A (PS2)
07.30.07 Guilty Gear X ?Core (Wii)

xx.xx.07 Guilty Gear X #Slash (PS2)
xx.xx.07 Hoshigami Remix: Ruining Blue Earth (DS)

...it's looking like a done deal imo.

 

[Kintaro]

Eagle Eye Golf is a conversion of Telenet's Enjoy Golf.

Also, seems a few Aksys releases are now popping up on retail lists...

02.27.07 Gish (PSP)
05.29.07 Title A (PS2)
07.30.07 Guilty Gear X ?Core (Wii)

xx.xx.07 Guilty Gear X #Slash (PS2)
xx.xx.07 Hoshigami Remix: Ruining Blue Earth (DS)

...it's looking like a done deal imo.

Why the **** would you bring the last release to Wii, and the older release to PS2?

 

[Branduil]

Why the **** would you bring the last release to Wii, and the older release to PS2?

Because Wii is the new hotness in Japan?

 

[Zoramon089]

Because Wii is the new hotness in Japan?

Bingo

 

[Kintaro]

Because Wii is the new hotness in Japan?

Yeah, just ignore the millions of PS2s still going strong out there. Ok. w/e works though.

 

[klee123]

I'm interested, provided that it has enough new features over my copy of GGX2 on PS2. I sure hope that Nintendo would help out by providing a bundle which comes with the game and the classic controller in one package.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Eagle Eye Golf is a conversion of Telenet's Enjoy Golf.

Also, seems a few Aksys releases are now popping up on retail lists...

02.27.07 Gish (PSP)
05.29.07 Title A (PS2)
07.30.07 Guilty Gear X ?Core (Wii)

xx.xx.07 Guilty Gear X #Slash (PS2)
xx.xx.07 Hoshigami Remix: Ruining Blue Earth (DS)

...it's looking like a done deal imo.

Are Aksys still passing this off as just rumours?