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Gun store owners 'seeing up to four times as many black and minority customers'

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The attorney general is literally a fucking racist. Like, there's no debate about it he's a fucking racist.

How is anything supposed to get better?

I'm asking here, how does MORE guns help make things better? What about that scenario is a healthy direction for this country to be going in?

How is it hyperbole to use my right to own a gun exactly?

You know what? You go right ahead and do that. Buy into the hype. The gun lobbyists cancers of our society thank you.
 

Orayn

Member
And how is your gun going to protect you from that vehicle, exactly?

The argument wasn't "we need guns to protect us from that," it was making a distinction between different types of wariness by stating that the government doesn't have a history of routinely deploying vehicles like that in white neighborhoods.
 

Tzeentch

Member
Guns of any kind are quite expensive, and you're going to want to set aside a dedicated space for weapon and ammunition storage. There's no reason to get a rifle as your first weapon in most cases. Don't buy the cheapest gun either, they are finely machined tools so ask the dealer for recommendations then watch some youtube reviews (you can find plenty of advice online for first-time buyers).

For the love of all that is holy attend a firearms safety and operations course. If you're female you actually have an advantage as a new owner, as most ranges offer not only offer very cheap (or free) courses for women, but many ranges also have 'ladies nights" where you can rent guns or a lanes for free. Note that some ranges are kind of assholish and may require prior proof of training before even allowing you to use a lane (particularly if they are popular/busy).

If you are truly buying the weapon for self defense and the state laws allow it, look into getting a concealed carry permit (even if you don't plan on hauling the gun around regularly). In many states they are very easy to get, but most require some classes (which you should be doing anyways to make sure you are educated on the laws).

Go to the range regularly if you have a gun. Just owning a weapon is useless if you don't practice. Please make sure you read up on all relevant laws regarding transporting weapons (ranges and shops often have zero tolerance if they spot you breaking transport laws and WILL call the cops). Consider follow-on training once you get more comfortable. Just having a weapon around is a risk to yourself and others - so manage that risk and make sure you can use the tool effectively when needed.

Ammunition is fairly expensive but is not something you want sitting around for years. Get a few boxes and shoot through that during familiarization, don't just buy it and stick that in a closet.
 

Breads

Banned
I'm asking here, how does MORE guns help make things better? What about that scenario is a healthy direction for this country to be going in?



You know what? You go right ahead and do that. Buy into the hype. The gun lobbyists cancers of our society thank you.

Are you at risk of being lynched or having some drunk asshole deciding to take their fragility out on you or your kids?

I am. My friends and family are.
 
I'm asking here, how does MORE guns help make things better? What about that scenario is a healthy direction for this country to be going in?

Because this isn't more guns being just thrown out there at random.

Whether you like it or not, these guns were going to be proliferated into the general population with or without regulation.

This is just minorities and PoC using their 2nd amendment rights to purchase them instead of white people.

That's it. That's literally it. These guns didn't just magically appear in peoples hands, they already existed.
 
I'm pretty sure if I buy a gun from my cousins shop, the NRA doesn't magically realize I did that and rub their hands evilly cackling and going "muahahahaha".

I'm pretty sure that's not how things work.
 

Sibylus

Banned
I'm asking here, how does MORE guns help make things better? What about that scenario is a healthy direction for this country to be going in?



You know what? You go right ahead and do that. Buy into the hype. The gun lobbyists cancers of our society thank you.

The more means of self-defense minorities have, the stronger a deterrent of "herd immunity" (to borrow a vaccination term) there will be against extremist elements on the street. What would you have them do? Put on rosy glasses and cling to statistics? What is your solution?
 
The more means of self-defense minorities have, the stronger a deterrent of "herd immunity" (to borrow a vaccination term) there will be against extremist elements on the street. What would you have them do? Put on rosy glasses and cling to statistics? What is your solution?

Guns aren't just magically going away. We aren't in a position where they are and, in fact, we're in a position where that's the least likely outcome.

Evil won, good needs to step in line to defend itself or nothing will. Bad people won't suddenly not use guns.
 
I mean, there are Republicans and NRA supporters doing literally exactly the same thing you just did after school shootings to advocate for (more) guns in schools and classrooms as if that would have made them more safe. Are you suggesting that carrying a gun in curch and bible studies will make them more safe? Because that is scientifically proven to be false.


Quoting a pro-Black gun ownership newsletter pdf I have:

Frederick Douglass, who in 1863 was encouraging Blacks to join the Union and fight in the Civil War said, “In your hands that musket means liberty; and should your constitutional rights at the close of this war be denied, which in the nature of things, it cannot be, your brethren are safe while you have a Constitution which proclaims your right to keep and bear arms.” This quote foreshadows everything we will examine.
There was a time that even the Church demanded that the Blacks be armed, in African Methodist Episcopal Church wrote in the 1886 Christian Recorder: “…No military or civil officer has the right or authority to disarm any class of people, thereby placing them at the mercy of others. All men, without distinction of color, have the right to keep arms to defend their homes, families or themselves.” Bishop Henry McNeal Turner wrote an editorial in 1897, as a response to a local lynching, titled, “Negroes Get Guns!”

Ida Wells-Barnett, who was born a slave and who later became the most famous investigator of lynching, after having her life repeatedly threatened, said, “I had already determined to sell my life as dearly as possible if attacked." "I felt if I could take one lyncher with me, this would even up the score a little bit.” She bought a pistol after her friend, Tom Moss, was lynched. She advised the Black community, “The lesson this teaches and which every Afro-American should ponder well, is that a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every Black home.” “It should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give.”

Hubert Harrison, “the father of Harlem radicalism”, said, “I advise you to be ready to defend yourselves. I notice that the State Government has removed some of its restrictions upon owing firearms, and one form of live insurance for your wives and children might be the possession of some of these handy implements.”
Zora Hurston, perhaps the most important Black female writer of the first half of the 20th century, and another leader of the Harlem Renaissance, packed a chrome plated 6-shooter pistol as she traveled throughout the south.

Rosa Parks, “By the time I was six, I was old enough to realize that we were not actually free. The Ku Klux Klan was riding through the Black community, burning churches, beating up people, killing people. . . . My grandfather kept his gun—a doubled barreled shotgun—close by at all times. . . . I remember thinking that whatever happened, I wanted to see it. I wanted to see him shoot that gun.” Rosa Parks organized community and neighborhood meetings that were so armed she recalled, “With the table so covered with guns, I don’t know where I would have put any refreshments.”

A 13 year old Walter White, in Atlanta in 1906, once stood side by side with his father as a mob prepared to burn down their house, “Son, don’t shoot until the first man puts his foot on the lawn and then – don’t you miss!” Mr. White would later lead the NAACP for 25 years.

W.E.B. Du Bois, “I bought a Winchester double-barreled shotgun and two dozen rounds of shells filled with buckshot. If a white mob had stepped on the campus where I lived I would without hesitation have sprayed their guts over the grass.”
One should know about the family of Dr. Ossian Sweet, when he moved in to an all white neighborhood in Detroit in 1925, his family and 9 other people defended his home from a mob of attackers. All 12 in the house were arrested for killing one of the attackers, but were later acquitted by a white jury – this famous court case established that a Black man could kill a White man in self-defense.

Dr. Robert Morton, President of the Tuskegee University, learned of a plan by the Klan to kill him and burn the Tuskegee school down. Dr. Morton’s attitude was recalled by Walter White: “I sat with him in his home at Tuskegee during the height of the trouble. He pointed to a rifle and a shotgun, well oiled and grimly businesslike, that stood in the corner of the room. Although his words in cold print may sound overheroic, they did not sound so to me as he said quietly, ‘I’ve got only one time to die. If I must die now to save Tuskegee Institute, I’m ready. I’ve been running long enough.’”

Condoleezza Rice, the first female National Security Advisor under President Bush witnessed her neighborhood come under attack from racists when a bomb was tossed through the window of a neighbor’s home. She grew up in Birmingham and witnessed the intense racism, her neighborhood formed an armed guard to keep out intruders.

T. Thomas Fortune puts self-defense in perspective: “We do not counsel a breach of the law, but in the absence of law … we maintain that the individual has every right … to protect himself … We do not counsel violence, …we council manly retaliation.”

Dr. TRM Howard, founder of the Regional Council of Negro Leadership (RCNL), kept a Thompson submachine gun in his home, and a rifle or shotgun in every corner of every room, and often wore a pistol on his waist. Every RCNL meeting was well armed, and it was expected that members would carry a concealed gun in public.

Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. also practiced self-defense – he applied for a concealed weapon permit after his house was bombed but the request was refused by local authorities. Members of King’s Baptist Church provided armed body guards for him, his home was described as “a virtual garrison” and in 1956 his home was described as “the place is an arsenal.”

Robert F. Williams, activist and writer of “Negroes with Guns” (1962) said, “Racist consider themselves superior beings and are not willing to exchange their superior lives for our inferior ones. They are most vicious and violent when they can practice violence with impunity.” He also wrote, "It has always been an accepted right of Americans, as the history of our Western states proves, that where the law is unable, or unwilling, to enforce order, the citizens can, and must act in self-defense against lawless violence.” Robert was very active with the NAACP until he was kicked out for being too militant (following the events of the NAACP in Monroe, 1957, see below). Williams created a group called the Black Armed Guard which was a precursor to other armed Black Militia groups who followed a strategy labeled, “God, Gandhi, and Guns.”


I do not deny anything regarding the deeply routed racism of the US. I deny that a gun will help you defend yourself or your family, as it is statistically proven that it makes you and your wife and child more likely to get shot, as I have linked before. You are actively endangering them.

Go tell those people I listed above how unsafe they were for daring to own a gun.

Now, if you don't store your guns properly, yes. With proper storage the odds of that decrease tremendously. What are the stats for proper vs improper storage for incidents of accidental/negligent discharges in the home? Or do the stats just lump both in or not even bother to differentiate?
 

Kenai

Member
I'm pretty sure if I buy a gun from my cousins shop, the NRA doesn't magically realize I did that and rub their hands evilly cackling and going "muahahahaha".

I'm pretty sure that's not how things work.

But are you REALLY sure? Maybe we should wait and see how things play out with those Trump Cabinet picks, just to be sure.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
Detractors in here acting like there aren't already as many guns in homes as there are people. Detractors in here acting like taking a purist stance against gun ownership isn't majorly crippling the electoral prospects of Democrats.

You think black people shouldn't exercise a right that white people are exercising because... reasons? What, cops going to start shooting black people? I've been living under a rock for the last couple years so I'm not up on the news. It would be a terrible thing if that started happening all the sudden
/s

We've got someone in here arguing that an increase in minority gun ownership would just lead to an increase in black-on-black violence. For. Fuck's. Sake. Straight outta Stormfront.
 
Are you at risk of being lynched or having some drunk asshole deciding to take their fragility out on you or your kids?

I am. My friends and family are.

I've been surrounded by drunk assholes that own guns for most of my life, so yes, that was always a possibility.
 
Quoting a pro-Black gun ownership newsletter pdf I have:

Frederick Douglass, who in 1863 was encouraging Blacks to join the Union and fight in the Civil War said, “In your hands that musket means liberty; and should your constitutional rights at the close of this war be denied, which in the nature of things, it cannot be, your brethren are safe while you have a Constitution which proclaims your right to keep and bear arms.” This quote foreshadows everything we will examine.
There was a time that even the Church demanded that the Blacks be armed, in African Methodist Episcopal Church wrote in the 1886 Christian Recorder: “…No military or civil officer has the right or authority to disarm any class of people, thereby placing them at the mercy of others. All men, without distinction of color, have the right to keep arms to defend their homes, families or themselves.” Bishop Henry McNeal Turner wrote an editorial in 1897, as a response to a local lynching, titled, “Negroes Get Guns!”

Ida Wells-Barnett, who was born a slave and who later became the most famous investigator of lynching, after having her life repeatedly threatened, said, “I had already determined to sell my life as dearly as possible if attacked." "I felt if I could take one lyncher with me, this would even up the score a little bit.” She bought a pistol after her friend, Tom Moss, was lynched. She advised the Black community, “The lesson this teaches and which every Afro-American should ponder well, is that a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every Black home.” “It should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give.”

Hubert Harrison, “the father of Harlem radicalism”, said, “I advise you to be ready to defend yourselves. I notice that the State Government has removed some of its restrictions upon owing firearms, and one form of live insurance for your wives and children might be the possession of some of these handy implements.”
Zora Hurston, perhaps the most important Black female writer of the first half of the 20th century, and another leader of the Harlem Renaissance, packed a chrome plated 6-shooter pistol as she traveled throughout the south.

Rosa Parks, “By the time I was six, I was old enough to realize that we were not actually free. The Ku Klux Klan was riding through the Black community, burning churches, beating up people, killing people. . . . My grandfather kept his gun—a doubled barreled shotgun—close by at all times. . . . I remember thinking that whatever happened, I wanted to see it. I wanted to see him shoot that gun.” Rosa Parks organized community and neighborhood meetings that were so armed she recalled, “With the table so covered with guns, I don’t know where I would have put any refreshments.”

A 13 year old Walter White, in Atlanta in 1906, once stood side by side with his father as a mob prepared to burn down their house, “Son, don’t shoot until the first man puts his foot on the lawn and then – don’t you miss!” Mr. White would later lead the NAACP for 25 years.

W.E.B. Du Bois, “I bought a Winchester double-barreled shotgun and two dozen rounds of shells filled with buckshot. If a white mob had stepped on the campus where I lived I would without hesitation have sprayed their guts over the grass.”
One should know about the family of Dr. Ossian Sweet, when he moved in to an all white neighborhood in Detroit in 1925, his family and 9 other people defended his home from a mob of attackers. All 12 in the house were arrested for killing one of the attackers, but were later acquitted by a white jury – this famous court case established that a Black man could kill a White man in self-defense.

Dr. Robert Morton, President of the Tuskegee University, learned of a plan by the Klan to kill him and burn the Tuskegee school down. Dr. Morton’s attitude was recalled by Walter White: “I sat with him in his home at Tuskegee during the height of the trouble. He pointed to a rifle and a shotgun, well oiled and grimly businesslike, that stood in the corner of the room. Although his words in cold print may sound overheroic, they did not sound so to me as he said quietly, ‘I’ve got only one time to die. If I must die now to save Tuskegee Institute, I’m ready. I’ve been running long enough.’”

Condoleezza Rice, the first female National Security Advisor under President Bush witnessed her neighborhood come under attack from racists when a bomb was tossed through the window of a neighbor’s home. She grew up in Birmingham and witnessed the intense racism, her neighborhood formed an armed guard to keep out intruders.

T. Thomas Fortune puts self-defense in perspective: “We do not counsel a breach of the law, but in the absence of law … we maintain that the individual has every right … to protect himself … We do not counsel violence, …we council manly retaliation.”

Dr. TRM Howard, founder of the Regional Council of Negro Leadership (RCNL), kept a Thompson submachine gun in his home, and a rifle or shotgun in every corner of every room, and often wore a pistol on his waist. Every RCNL meeting was well armed, and it was expected that members would carry a concealed gun in public.

Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. also practiced self-defense – he applied for a concealed weapon permit after his house was bombed but the request was refused by local authorities. Members of King’s Baptist Church provided armed body guards for him, his home was described as “a virtual garrison” and in 1956 his home was described as “the place is an arsenal.”

Robert F. Williams, activist and writer of “Negroes with Guns” (1962) said, “Racist consider themselves superior beings and are not willing to exchange their superior lives for our inferior ones. They are most vicious and violent when they can practice violence with impunity.” He also wrote, "It has always been an accepted right of Americans, as the history of our Western states proves, that where the law is unable, or unwilling, to enforce order, the citizens can, and must act in self-defense against lawless violence.” Robert was very active with the NAACP until he was kicked out for being too militant (following the events of the NAACP in Monroe, 1957, see below). Williams created a group called the Black Armed Guard which was a precursor to other armed Black Militia groups who followed a strategy labeled, “God, Gandhi, and Guns.”




Go tell those people I listed above how unsafe they were for daring to own a gun.

Now, if you don't store your guns properly, yes. With proper storage the odds of that decrease tremendously. What are the stats for proper vs improper storage for incidents of accidental/negligent discharges in the home? Or do the stats just lump both in or not even bother to differentiate?

Billy-D_Approves.gif
 

Sibylus

Banned
Guns aren't just magically going away. We aren't in a position where they are and, in fact, we're in a position where that's the least likely outcome.

Evil won, good needs to step in line to defend itself or nothing will. Bad people won't suddenly not use guns.

I agree with every single point of this. DBTG seems to be in denial at just how dead disarmament is as a policy right now and just how much minorities have to contend with. Legislation has failed, police have failed, the courts have failed, and the government as a whole is set to fail catastrophically. Minorities have to look out for themselves because all of the above elements (ineffectual moderates like DBTG included) won't do shit to protect them.

Disarmament not only is dead- it's undesirable. It's irresponsible to preach down at minorities to abandon self-defense and once more trust the institutions that have failed them. Especially with fascism rising.
 
I think we'd all agree we'd like to live in a world without guns. That's certainly an ideal to think of positively.

But we don't live in an ideal, we live in reality. Guns are ALREADY HERE. They are everywhere, there are more guns in the US than people.

Denying one side access to them because it "just makes things worse" while the other is already armed is, I'm sorry, ridiculous.
 

Jobbs

Banned
I generally find guns kind of scary/unsettling (I own two, but they were inherited from my grandfather and I never really touch them). I don't own any ammunition but I'd probably go get some if I were black.
 

wildfire

Banned
I mean, there are Republicans and NRA supporters doing literally exactly the same thing you just did after school shootings to advocate for (more) guns in schools and classrooms as if that would have made them more safe. Are you suggesting that carrying a gun in curch and bible studies will make them more safe? Because that is scientifically proven to be false.

Please stop with the strawmen. You're either coming off as a closet racist or idiot.


These people arming themselves still wouldn't want guns in schools for obvious reasons. If you want to make an analogy recognize what makes your comparison too strenuous.
 
Quoting a pro-Black gun ownership newsletter pdf I have:

Frederick Douglass, who in 1863 was encouraging Blacks to join the Union and fight in the Civil War said, “In your hands that musket means liberty; and should your constitutional rights at the close of this war be denied, which in the nature of things, it cannot be, your brethren are safe while you have a Constitution which proclaims your right to keep and bear arms.” This quote foreshadows everything we will examine.
There was a time that even the Church demanded that the Blacks be armed, in African Methodist Episcopal Church wrote in the 1886 Christian Recorder: “…No military or civil officer has the right or authority to disarm any class of people, thereby placing them at the mercy of others. All men, without distinction of color, have the right to keep arms to defend their homes, families or themselves.” Bishop Henry McNeal Turner wrote an editorial in 1897, as a response to a local lynching, titled, “Negroes Get Guns!”

Ida Wells-Barnett, who was born a slave and who later became the most famous investigator of lynching, after having her life repeatedly threatened, said, “I had already determined to sell my life as dearly as possible if attacked." "I felt if I could take one lyncher with me, this would even up the score a little bit.” She bought a pistol after her friend, Tom Moss, was lynched. She advised the Black community, “The lesson this teaches and which every Afro-American should ponder well, is that a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every Black home.” “It should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give.”

Hubert Harrison, “the father of Harlem radicalism”, said, “I advise you to be ready to defend yourselves. I notice that the State Government has removed some of its restrictions upon owing firearms, and one form of live insurance for your wives and children might be the possession of some of these handy implements.”
Zora Hurston, perhaps the most important Black female writer of the first half of the 20th century, and another leader of the Harlem Renaissance, packed a chrome plated 6-shooter pistol as she traveled throughout the south.

Rosa Parks, “By the time I was six, I was old enough to realize that we were not actually free. The Ku Klux Klan was riding through the Black community, burning churches, beating up people, killing people. . . . My grandfather kept his gun—a doubled barreled shotgun—close by at all times. . . . I remember thinking that whatever happened, I wanted to see it. I wanted to see him shoot that gun.” Rosa Parks organized community and neighborhood meetings that were so armed she recalled, “With the table so covered with guns, I don’t know where I would have put any refreshments.”

A 13 year old Walter White, in Atlanta in 1906, once stood side by side with his father as a mob prepared to burn down their house, “Son, don’t shoot until the first man puts his foot on the lawn and then – don’t you miss!” Mr. White would later lead the NAACP for 25 years.

W.E.B. Du Bois, “I bought a Winchester double-barreled shotgun and two dozen rounds of shells filled with buckshot. If a white mob had stepped on the campus where I lived I would without hesitation have sprayed their guts over the grass.”
One should know about the family of Dr. Ossian Sweet, when he moved in to an all white neighborhood in Detroit in 1925, his family and 9 other people defended his home from a mob of attackers. All 12 in the house were arrested for killing one of the attackers, but were later acquitted by a white jury – this famous court case established that a Black man could kill a White man in self-defense.

Dr. Robert Morton, President of the Tuskegee University, learned of a plan by the Klan to kill him and burn the Tuskegee school down. Dr. Morton’s attitude was recalled by Walter White: “I sat with him in his home at Tuskegee during the height of the trouble. He pointed to a rifle and a shotgun, well oiled and grimly businesslike, that stood in the corner of the room. Although his words in cold print may sound overheroic, they did not sound so to me as he said quietly, ‘I’ve got only one time to die. If I must die now to save Tuskegee Institute, I’m ready. I’ve been running long enough.’”

Condoleezza Rice, the first female National Security Advisor under President Bush witnessed her neighborhood come under attack from racists when a bomb was tossed through the window of a neighbor’s home. She grew up in Birmingham and witnessed the intense racism, her neighborhood formed an armed guard to keep out intruders.

T. Thomas Fortune puts self-defense in perspective: “We do not counsel a breach of the law, but in the absence of law … we maintain that the individual has every right … to protect himself … We do not counsel violence, …we council manly retaliation.”

Dr. TRM Howard, founder of the Regional Council of Negro Leadership (RCNL), kept a Thompson submachine gun in his home, and a rifle or shotgun in every corner of every room, and often wore a pistol on his waist. Every RCNL meeting was well armed, and it was expected that members would carry a concealed gun in public.

Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. also practiced self-defense – he applied for a concealed weapon permit after his house was bombed but the request was refused by local authorities. Members of King’s Baptist Church provided armed body guards for him, his home was described as “a virtual garrison” and in 1956 his home was described as “the place is an arsenal.”

Robert F. Williams, activist and writer of “Negroes with Guns” (1962) said, “Racist consider themselves superior beings and are not willing to exchange their superior lives for our inferior ones. They are most vicious and violent when they can practice violence with impunity.” He also wrote, "It has always been an accepted right of Americans, as the history of our Western states proves, that where the law is unable, or unwilling, to enforce order, the citizens can, and must act in self-defense against lawless violence.” Robert was very active with the NAACP until he was kicked out for being too militant (following the events of the NAACP in Monroe, 1957, see below). Williams created a group called the Black Armed Guard which was a precursor to other armed Black Militia groups who followed a strategy labeled, “God, Gandhi, and Guns.”




Go tell those people I listed above how unsafe they were for daring to own a gun.

Now, if you don't store your guns properly, yes. With proper storage the odds of that decrease tremendously. What are the stats for proper vs improper storage for incidents of accidental/negligent discharges in the home? Or do the stats just lump both in or not even bother to differentiate?


This. And I don't understand how some of you are saying that neogaf was always against the 2nd ammendment? I'm as pro gun as they come, and I felt that some of neogaf had a tendency to get emotional and blame all gun owners when a horrific shooting occurred, but many others did it as well. At other times, neogaf was merely for background checks and common sense weapons safety.
 

Their dress style may be silly, but at least their weapons handling and safety are already better than alot of the tea partiers and trumpists' were.

I'll probably be headed to one of the Austin protests soon (local austinite), so I suppose I'll have a chance to learn more about these fellows.
 
He's not lying. I'm pro gun and I'm for common sense legislation. There are a lot of us.

Most Democrats aren't for total bans on guns either and the Democratic Party would get a lot more independent voters if they dropped gun control because it's such a potent Republican wedge issue that they've used as a bludgeon against Democrats for decades.

Bernie has the right idea, drop the pretense that there will ever be anything resembling bans in the US. It's not happening. If Sandy Hook didn't move the needle, literally nothing ever will and it loses the Democrats millions of votes every election.

Sorry, this thread isn't about that, so I'll shut up now.
 
Their dress style may be silly, but at least their weapons handling and safety are already better than alot of the tea partiers and trumpists' were.

I'll probably be headed to one of the Austin protests soon (local austinite), so I suppose I'll have a chance to learn more about these fellows.

I've encountered a few of them on West 4th.

And odd bunch but not terribly beyond the normal "Austin" level of weird.
 
I think we'd all agree we'd like to live in a world without guns. That's certainly an ideal to think of positively.

But we don't live in an ideal, we live in reality. Guns are ALREADY HERE. They are everywhere, there are more guns in the US than people.

Denying one side access to them because it "just makes things worse" while the other is already armed is, I'm sorry, ridiculous.

Yes, lets get further and further from that ideal, purposely, lets jump further down that rabbit hole, that's the spirit. I'm certainly looking forward to even more lax gun laws because that's precisely what's coming.

(Also, why are you bringing up "denying one side" in response to me? What exactly are you suggesting?)
 

wildfire

Banned
Detractors in here acting like there aren't already as many guns in homes as there are people. Detractors in here acting like taking a purist stance against gun ownership isn't majorly crippling the electoral prospects of Democrats.

You think black people shouldn't exercise a right that white people are exercising because... reasons? What, cops going to start shooting black people?


Shooting cops is a bad idea for many reasons unless they are off duty and still doing the same thing people decided to arm themselves more now.


Suggesting it as a means of defending yourself against police is dumb in most scenarios and in most scenarios they will outnumber you and your companion. The outcome is unlikely to change until you reach a certain level of manpower ratio. It's more practical to have weapons when dealing with everyone else not in law enforcement.


If you want to make changes in law enforcement ultimately you have to make changes by being proactive within the government.
 

ishibear

is a goddamn bear
Sigh

This is a terribly troubling decision to make. I cannot imagine hurting someone and potentially ending their life to preserve my own... but a government like Trump's will send this country into pandemonium. I may not have a choice...
 

slit

Member
I'm asking here, how does MORE guns help make things better? What about that scenario is a healthy direction for this country to be going in?
.

Healthy direction? You got to be kidding me! I think we're beyond that point. The people who feel they have to do this are not doing it for healthy direction. They're doing because they don't want to be sitting ducks.
 

wildfire

Banned
Yes, lets get further and further from that ideal, purposely, lets jump further down that rabbit hole, that's the spirit. I'm certainly looking forward to even more lax gun laws because that's precisely what's coming.

(Also, why are you bringing up "denying one side" in response to me? What exactly are you suggesting?)

You continue to be that guy. The asshole looking down on the plight of others you can't understand and are unlikely to experience. It's pathetic I could make better arguments then you who is too lazy to make actual arguments about the effects of gun control in Europe and Australia. Unlike you I see the importance of people arming themselves even though there is some foolishness also supporting those reasons. Get off your soapbox and live in the real world.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
You can't be serious right now. Yeah, this country really does have a sickness. I'm certainly excited for this everyone has a gun utopia.
It's like you're not even reading the post you're responding to.

Like all those lynchings and murders never happened.
Were you there?™

This thread almost feels like a propaganda machine. It would almost be funny if it weren't sad as fuck. This Country isn't getting better.
Yes. People are propagating that idea that if you're a vulnerable minority you need to make an effort to be able to protect yourself from the currently rising tide of bigoted violence that is manifesting in this country. You hit the nail on the head. Hopefully those seeds will take root and flourish before the white supremacists in the White House, the regressives in congress, and the (likely soon to be) regressive Supreme Court can snuff them out.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
Yes, lets get further and further from that ideal, purposely, lets jump further down that rabbit hole, that's the spirit. I'm certainly looking forward to even more lax gun laws because that's precisely what's coming.

(Also, why are you bringing up "denying one side" in response to me? What exactly are you suggesting?)

What's your plan then? I haven't seen you mention any alternative in this thread other than snide "Guns are bad, you're playing into the gun lobby's hands sheeple" quips.
 
Most Democrats aren't for total bans on guns either and the Democratic Party would get a lot more independent voters if they dropped gun control because it's such a potent Republican wedge issue that they've used as a bludgeon against Democrats for decades.

Bernie has the right idea, drop the pretense that there will ever be anything resembling bans in the US. It's not happening. If Sandy Hook didn't move the needle, literally nothing ever will and it loses the Democrats millions of votes every election.

Sorry, this thread isn't about that, so I'll shut up now.

You have a point though. Bernie was never for gun bans and confiscation of assault weapons, but as soon as the Clinton's hit him nonstop on his gun stance, he did a 180! Despite his record of being pro gun in his home state. This reversal scared off alot of potential pro gun voters.

I do believe that the Democratic party needs to drop outright gun bans and talks of confiscation, and merely move to background checks as well as common sense tests on gun safety.
 
Disarmament isn't happening now.

That needs to be accepted and we need to move on and do what we can with the system we have to defend ourselves.

That's it.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
Shooting cops is a bad idea for many reasons unless they are off duty and still doing the same thing people decided to arm themselves more now.


Suggesting it as a means of defending yourself against police is dumb in most scenarios and in most scenarios they will outnumber you and your companion. The outcome is unlikely to change until you reach a certain level of manpower ratio. It's more practical to have weapons when dealing with everyone else not in law enforcement.


If you want to make changes in law enforcement ultimately you have to make changes by being proactive within the government.

Huh? I missed the part of my post where I suggested that people should shoot cops... I was responding to those suggesting that black people owning guns was just going to result in black people getting shot, as if that's not happening. Guns, in this argument, are mostly being suggested as a means of self-defense against the potential of emboldened, crazy ass racists taking matters into their own hands.

For obvious reasons, a lot of people feel like those sorts of scenarios are becoming more and more likely. White nationalists got the candidate of their choice elected. Some see Trump's victory as a mandate that reinforces their worldview. Given our country's history, people have a very good reason to be concerned about increased civilian violence against minorities.

I do believe that the Democratic party needs to drop outright gun bans and talks of confiscation, and merely move to background checks as well as common sense tests on gun safety.

Shit, take it out of the platform altogether. Pro-gun defense is too strong. Time to punt. All we're doing by continuing this argument is leaving the Republican party with loyal voters. Something like 90% of Americans are cool with background checks. Let Republicans call for them when minority ownership goes up. Or continue fighting that fight and playing into the "anti-gun" boogeyman persona the gun lobby has crafted for the left.

I don't like guns. Never owned one, and I likely won't for similar reasons other posters have shared. But I recognize how tense shit is right now. I recognize what's about to come from the next presidential administration. I recognize we have a looooong list of issues we need to be fighting for and I recognize the gun issue is, unfortunately, a losing one.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Disarmament isn't happening now.

That needs to be accepted and we need to move on and do what we can with the system we have to defend ourselves.

That's it.

Yep. We can be realists and offer effective solutions for the vulnerable right now, or we can pontificate from a high seat about sticking to legislative thrusts that have failed and will continue to fail for the time being.

DBTG is lost in the weeds of things like background checks and assault weapon bans and a fantasy. I'm encouraged that a lot of others seem to have a more sober view of the world.
 
aw hell nawl, this is some nintendo mess

i like the look of those old luger (?) guns with the thin barrel (?)
are those still a thing that you can buy

The pre war or post war Lugers? If you can, get a pre war one. Better built. On the off chance you're talking about the Mauser C96 broomhandle, aka Han Solo's blaster and Red 9 from Resident Evil 4, yes they are still available for around 1k.

Back to topic however, I agree, it's too late for the Democrats to go back to talk of gun bans. Though I could see some states make arguments about banning certain weapons by vote (ala California and their gunpocalypse bill which passed). Though who's to say the Supreme Court pick that Trump chooses will agree on that.
 
These guns aren't going to protect minorities from their current racist boogeymen any more than they protected republican gun nuts from the evil government.

Yes, because more guns is never the solution. Never worked, never will. It will only escalate the level of agression directed among them.

I do not deny anything regarding the deeply routed racism of the US. I deny that a gun will help you defend yourself or your family

The night of October 5, 1957, was the last time that the Klan came into Newtown, a black section of Monroe, firing their guns and trying to frighten away or maybe kill Dr. Perry. What happened that night has been vividly described by Julian Mayfield, author, actor, and close associate of Robert Williams, in an unpublished manuscript:

It was just another good time Klan night, the high point of which would come when they dragged Dr. Perry over the state line if they did not hang or burn him first.

But near Dr. Perry's home their revelry was suddenly shattered by the sustained fire of scores of men who had been instructed not to kill anyone if it were not necessary. The firing was blistering, disciplined and frightening. The motorcade, of about eighty cars, which had begun in a spirit of good fellowship, disintegrated into chaos, with panicky, robed men fleeing in every direction. Some abandoned their automobiles and had to continue on foot.​

http://www.lexisnexis.com/academic/1univ/hist/aa/aas_autobio.asp

Shooting someone is not an appropriate response to racist harrassmen

'Black Lives Don't Matter'.

I wish everyone was buying dashcams and bodycams instead.

I'm tired of watching black people die on live stream.
 
You are fighting hard to not even acknowledge the racial issue.

You know.

Except for trying to paint prospective minority gun owners as attempting to incite a race war... just for not being white and wanting a gun.

Crappy people suck, we all know that, I pointed out the GAF gun control hypocrisy, and hints of a vs sentiment justify new view towards gun ownership. I also said it's everyones right to own guns.
 
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