Gunman kills twelve at theater in Aurora Colorado

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DrForester

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Kind of off topic, but there was a huge fire at the apartment building right across the street from the shooters apartment building. Arson is suspected but no connection with the Aurora shooting.
 
Are we ever going to hear this guy speak a single word?

And lol at the claim of mental illness. I always wonder if in cases like these, the lawyers just try to scrap at any sort of evidence they can to defend their criminal, no matter how obviously guilty he is.
 
wasnt there evidence of months of planning and supplies being bought for? kevlar and ammo and guns and all that?

doesnt that negate the mental illness path? i'm not well versed in what's the scope of that line of defense. Do psychotic / sociopathic syndromes qualify the defendant to be pursued under a more lenient punishment?
 
Are we ever going to hear this guy speak a single word?

And lol at the claim of mental illness. I always wonder if in cases like these, the lawyers just try to scrap at any sort of evidence they can to defend their criminal, no matter how obviously guilty he is.

Did you ever get to see Jared Loughner in court? Nope. they will kepp him hidden from the public eye as much as possible until they have him medicated enough that the public wont see how crazy he is.

Both of these guys have serious mental illnesses. Americans don't find that acceptable. We have a justice system based on punishment and a populace who wont accept anything less no matter what the condition of the person who committed the crime. Most Americans dont believe that serious mental illness is even real. Look at this thread with the people who say he is faking.


I didnt notice a thread on it, but Loughner was just given a plea bargain of life in prison 2 days ago. With all that evidence? After shooting a US senator in the head and killing a little girl in front of a crowd of people? And he got a plea bargain. That should tell you everything you need to know about what his mental condition was. They judge found him to finally be competent to stand trial, but that was just a sham. That was just so they could offer the plea deal legally. And now they get to keep the public from seeing how mentally ill he is.

Obviously someone with as serious a mental illness as Loughner should have been sentenced to a mental institution. But that's not justice in Americas eyes. They want justice even when there is none to be had. It sucks that people can die and it is a situation where we cant even get justice out of the situation, but it does happen. But not in America. If they could have somehow have given Jared Loughner a trial without us being able to see him then believe me he would be headed to death row instead of life in prison. In America we will execute a mentally ill person and feel much better about that than we would about them being sentenced to a mental facility.

They are going to do the exact same thing with Holmes. And America will cheer it on. Americans for the most part simple dont believe in this kind of mental illness.
 
Did you ever get to see Jared Loughner in court? Nope. they will kepp him hidden from the public eye as much as possible until they have him medicated enough that the public wont see how crazy he is.

Both of these guys have serious mental illnesses. Americans don't find that acceptable. We have a justice system based on punishment and a populace who wont accept anything less no matter what the condition of the person who committed the crime. Most Americans dont believe that serious mental illness is even real. Look at this thread with the people who say he is faking.


I didnt notice a thread on it, but Loughner was just given a plea bargain of life in prison 2 days ago. With all that evidence? After shooting a US senator in the head and killing a little girl in front of a crowd of people? And he got a plea bargain. That should tell you everything you need to know about what his mental condition was. They judge found him to finally be competent to stand trial, but that was just a sham. That was just so they could offer the plea deal legally. And now they get to keep the public from seeing how mentally ill he is.

Obviously someone with as serious a mental illness as Loughner should have been sentenced to a mental institution. But that's not justice in Americas eyes. They want justice even when there is none to be had. It sucks that people can die and it is a situation where we cant even get justice out of the situation, but it does happen. But not in America. If they could have somehow have given Jared Loughner a trial without us being able to see him then believe me he would be headed to death row instead of life in prison. In America we will execute a mentally ill person and feel much better about that than we would about them being sentenced to a mental facility.

They are going to do the exact same thing with Holmes. And America will cheer it on. Americans for the most part simple dont believe in this kind of mental illness.
Couldn't agree more. A brilliant post.
 
Both of these guys have serious mental illnesses. Americans don't find that acceptable...
They are going to do the exact same thing with Holmes. And America will cheer it on. Americans for the most part simple dont believe in this kind of mental illness.
The courts generally are only concerned with whether the person knew what he was doing is wrong, not what type of mental illness he had. Even if the medical community classified the willingness to kill somebody as MurderItis so every single killer would count as being mentally ill, it wouldn't matter for their guilt or innocence. If you plan and execute somebody's murder and understand all the while that killing people is wrong, you are guilty.

Unless you are trying to make the argument that he didn't know it was wrong...in which case, best of luck to you and your arguments.

[IANAL]
 
wasnt there evidence of months of planning and supplies being bought for? kevlar and ammo and guns and all that?

doesnt that negate the mental illness path? i'm not well versed in what's the scope of that line of defense. Do psychotic / sociopathic syndromes qualify the defendant to be pursued under a more lenient punishment?
wikipedia is meticulously maintained by an army of autistic shut-ins, so planning, foresight, and obesssive attention to detail certainly aren't an indication one is mentally healthy. however, you are probably making the point in terms of what the courts are concerned with: was the person aware of the law and were the aware of right and wrong? in that case, he was likely well aware.
 
The courts generally are only concerned with whether the person knew what he was doing is wrong, not what type of mental illness he had. Even if the medical community classified the willingness to kill somebody as MurderItis so every single killer would count as being mentally ill, it wouldn't matter for their guilt or innocence. If you plan and execute somebody's murder and understand all the while that killing people is wrong, you are guilty.

Unless you are trying to make the argument that he didn't know it was wrong...in which case, best of luck to you and your arguments.

[IANAL]

It's not called murderitis, it's called schizophrenia. Should we use your standards to judge whether someone needs to be treated for a mental disease? If you can plan anything, and if you can answer yes to the question "Is killing people wrong" we will let them out of mental facilities and they don't have to get treatment.

We're talking about a mental illness so severe that in some cases people can actually see things in front of them that aren't there. Hear things that dont exist, including voices. The disassociation of their mind is so severe that they no longer have the ability to understand that it cant be real no matter how bizarre the visual or auditory hallucination is. This is their reality.

And these cases go well beyond Americans just not wanting to believe that a mind can be broken just like any other part of the body. Here we don't care what someones condition was at the time of the crime and will even openly admit that someone wasn't able to tell right from wrong or reality from hallucination at the time of the crime. As long as we can treat them enough to convince people that when they get to court they can then understand charges against them.

Here is a link to Loughners youtube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10/videos

A couple of videos seem to be missing. One where he is wearing a garbage bag in the desert and IIRC sets something on fire. And another where he walks around his college campus making nonsensical rantings. BTW, he was expelled from college because he was completely out of his mind. The administration told his parents he couldn't come back until they got him treated for his mental illness. He was far to ill to seek or be responsible for his own treatment. They didn't get him any treatment.

He got treatment after though. And they wouldn't let us see him until they had him treated enough to shuffle him into a courtroom and judge him competent so they could give him a plea bargain and get him out of sight again.


Schizophrenia is different for everybody though. On the surface Holmes doesn't seem to be quite as severe a case as Loughners. Loughners is so severe that I have no doubt that a judge ruling him competent is crime itself. Loughners will never be competent in his life being treated with current methods. Maybe in the future if we find better treatment for schizophrenia. Right now our best treatment is the equivalent of driving a nail with a sledgehammer.

But this is America. We want justice. What we really want is vengeance. We want blood. An eye for an eye. The vast majority of Americans would be more than happy to see Jarred Loughner executed. So we are going to stick that guy in a prison. That guy doesn't belong in a prison, and prisoners don't belong around a guy like that. Both for his benefit and theirs.
 
Loughner stuff...
Schizophrenia stuff...
But this is America. We want justice. What we really want is vengeance. We want blood. An eye for an eye.
I know little about Loughner and I'm not addressing him at the moment. I also wasn't intending on talking about Schizophrenia. Though even if a murderer does have it, millions of non-murderers have schizophrenia and perceptions that schizophrenia leads to violence is not backed by science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Violence).

Simply having a mental illness does not mean you should be found not guilty of a crime and that is what we're talking about here. You need to have not been able to control your actions or at least not understand your actions when you committed the crime. This makes it somewhat simpler for courts to make decisions, but still difficult enough that new precedents are set every decade or so. Almost no cases involve the insanity defense and those that do usually fail. This isn't because Americans want blood; it's because we don't give people a pass just for having a diagnosed mental illness, especially because our understanding of mental illnesses is relatively new and we still don't know enough about them. One of the major issues is where do you draw the line? Just severe mental disorders? How would you define that? What about personality disorders? Many people suffering from schizophrenia also suffer from a personality disorder; maybe you need both to become violent. Does the disorder have to be from a defined chemical imbalance, genes, brain damage, etc.?

Even the defense attorneys have yet to come out and discuss Holmes' medical condition because they simply don't know yet, so it seems quite presumptuous to state he has schizophrenia, it was severe enough to cause him to murder people, and he should be found not guilty. And then to back that statement up by demonizing the "vast majority of Americans" makes it sound like you have grudge of some kind.

The vast majority of Americans would be more than happy to see Jarred Loughner executed. So we are going to stick that guy in a prison. That guy doesn't belong in a prison, and prisoners don't belong around a guy like that. Both for his benefit and theirs.
What the vast majority of Americans want rarely has any impact on what a court decides. But obviously, there is a side topic here of whether prisoners should receive treatment for mental illnesses. I believe they should. And in some cases they do, but treatment of any condition prisoners have is a hotly debated topic and one that only gets more complicated when considering issues like Obamacare. Personally, I think the answer is simple, but I don't run countries.
 
The people who said they saw Holmes on the phone minutes before the shooting were correct. Some people speculated it was him calling his apartment to set the explosives/timers etc. Nope. He was calling the faculty department at his university.

Story here.
 

Bowflex

The fact that anyone supports Hillary boggles my mind... I have tested between 130-160 on IQ tests
I laughed out loud when I saw that picture, because it is so absurd. Dude is in prison, maybe facing life yet has the most goofy, happy-go-lucky look on his face. I know he's probably batshit mentally ill, but still....that face.
 
Did you ever get to see Jared Loughner in court? Nope. they will kepp him hidden from the public eye as much as possible until they have him medicated enough that the public wont see how crazy he is.

Both of these guys have serious mental illnesses. Americans don't find that acceptable. We have a justice system based on punishment and a populace who wont accept anything less no matter what the condition of the person who committed the crime. Most Americans dont believe that serious mental illness is even real. Look at this thread with the people who say he is faking.


I didnt notice a thread on it, but Loughner was just given a plea bargain of life in prison 2 days ago. With all that evidence? After shooting a US senator in the head and killing a little girl in front of a crowd of people? And he got a plea bargain. That should tell you everything you need to know about what his mental condition was. They judge found him to finally be competent to stand trial, but that was just a sham. That was just so they could offer the plea deal legally. And now they get to keep the public from seeing how mentally ill he is.

Obviously someone with as serious a mental illness as Loughner should have been sentenced to a mental institution. But that's not justice in Americas eyes. They want justice even when there is none to be had. It sucks that people can die and it is a situation where we cant even get justice out of the situation, but it does happen. But not in America. If they could have somehow have given Jared Loughner a trial without us being able to see him then believe me he would be headed to death row instead of life in prison. In America we will execute a mentally ill person and feel much better about that than we would about them being sentenced to a mental facility.

They are going to do the exact same thing with Holmes. And America will cheer it on. Americans for the most part simple dont believe in this kind of mental illness.
Great post. Sadly most people will just skim over it in their rush to make a prison rape joke. The prison system is fucked for so many reasons, and it's sad that no one wants anything to do with thinking about fixing it.
 
Did you ever get to see Jared Loughner in court? Nope. they will kepp him hidden from the public eye as much as possible until they have him medicated enough that the public wont see how crazy he is.

Both of these guys have serious mental illnesses. Americans don't find that acceptable. We have a justice system based on punishment and a populace who wont accept anything less no matter what the condition of the person who committed the crime. Most Americans dont believe that serious mental illness is even real. Look at this thread with the people who say he is faking.


I didnt notice a thread on it, but Loughner was just given a plea bargain of life in prison 2 days ago. With all that evidence? After shooting a US senator in the head and killing a little girl in front of a crowd of people? And he got a plea bargain. That should tell you everything you need to know about what his mental condition was. They judge found him to finally be competent to stand trial, but that was just a sham. That was just so they could offer the plea deal legally. And now they get to keep the public from seeing how mentally ill he is.

Obviously someone with as serious a mental illness as Loughner should have been sentenced to a mental institution. But that's not justice in Americas eyes. They want justice even when there is none to be had. It sucks that people can die and it is a situation where we cant even get justice out of the situation, but it does happen. But not in America. If they could have somehow have given Jared Loughner a trial without us being able to see him then believe me he would be headed to death row instead of life in prison. In America we will execute a mentally ill person and feel much better about that than we would about them being sentenced to a mental facility.

They are going to do the exact same thing with Holmes. And America will cheer it on. Americans for the most part simple dont believe in this kind of mental illness.
Whoa. I dunno what motivated me to see what was now going on in this thread but I'm glad I came in and saw this post. Great post; well said!
 
Hey guys the Moon landing was a hoax. Also 911 was an inside job. Jesus is real though.
All true. The moon? Come on son. Look how long its been we "landed" there. Don't tell me you believe everything the Goverment, president, and news tells you???

911? Come on son. So many lies and secretes going with that and we'll never know the 100% truth.

Jesus? Well do you see him as person or a person with special powers? =]


That dudes picture looks like he's acting. lol.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Few tidbits from Colorado in the past week.

The Memorial that was put up was taken down on Thursday. Non perishable items were taken away and preserved. Family will still have access to it, and may be given the crosses that were put up.

A few more victims are going for the cash grab from the incident have filed a lawsuit against Cinemark, because having clearly marked exits was a bad thing.

Public support in the city has been generally in favor of reopening the theater, after a letter was sent to them by the city, Cinemark has said they hope to reopen next year.
 
That'll be an interesting one for his defense attorney to field. Speculation abounds that this guy is trying to "game the system" but I wouldn't doubt that he's just losing his mind in prison, even beyond the point where he was mentally when he hatched this plan.
 
This is according to a random drug addict who was supposedly near him in jail.

Though locked in different cells, Unruh, 38, claims he heard Holmes slamming himself into the wall. By yelling across the hall, Unrush says he talked the 24-year-old out of committing suicide.

Officers with the Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office disputed that detainees can communicate the way Unruh described, Nevertheless, Unruh -- who was locked up on theft and drug charges -- says Holmes described the massacre to him.
Sounds like bullshit to me.
 
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