Do you have evidence for this? That's not a hostile question: I'm honestly curious.
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Guy Says Rude Thing to Person, Gets Fired From Destructoid, Says More Rude Things
- Thread starter Mr. Enigma
- Start date
Do you have evidence for this? That's not a hostile question: I'm honestly curious.
Is it possible that less women than men want to be involved in the process of creating games?
MushroomSamba
Member
Man, people get angry over the silliest things.
DangerousDave
Member
It whould be better if the number of good producers were rising, no mather their sex. Believing that having more male or female producers is something good because their sex is nonsense.
Why aren't her actions part of this discussion?
Her girlfriend is the one spearheading this call for Jim Sterling's job, obviously she supports her girlfriend's actions throughout. She made no mention of the hurtful things she said or did and her portrayal is entirely one-sided. Should her actions not be open to scrutiny?
All this argument amounts to is "oh she's wrong too, but we're talking about Jim so it doesn't matter"
My entire point was that we're letting her off the hook too easily. When we support her girlfriend calling for his job, and do nothing about what she said, we're not being equal. That's not how equality works.
That's possible. Why do you think that is? Do you feel that games are an inherently masculine concept?
Like being let go from a games blog!
Bobs Big Boy
Member
Would still be a tactless question, no matter who it's directed towards.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Kinda have to agree with that. For whatever reason, I'm more concerned with talent, regardless of gender,race, etc., than quota filling.
Devolution
Member
It could be possible but when you consider how negative the atmosphere is, like many male dominated industries, it's not really a question without a lot of "ifs."
You said you don't care about personal feuds, but none of this was "just personal". She threw out things derogatory towards homosexuals, he threw out things derogatory towards males. My point is we should be actively enraged at both things. If you think that's some kind of strawman defence for misogyny, I really don't know what else to say.
This thread is takin the shit tornado right back to OZ! Whatever that means lol.
I don't get why people can't understand this.
Destructoid didn't want 2 million Felicia Day "fans" not going to Destructoid because of the comments of one writer. Its called Public Representation.
There were other ways to fix the issue. Destructoid decided to wipe themselves clean. Its not rocket science.
(Ive been lurkin on GAF for a while now, and I finally get approved to post my first reply in this shitty thread. Lol Shaking my head.....)
Destructoid didn't want 2 million Felicia Day "fans" not going to Destructoid because of the comments of one writer. Its called Public Representation.
There were other ways to fix the issue. Destructoid decided to wipe themselves clean. Its not rocket science.
(Ive been lurkin on GAF for a while now, and I finally get approved to post my first reply in this shitty thread. Lol Shaking my head.....)
Cursed Frogurt
Banned
The easier it gets for people to make independent games, the more women are going to be entering the field, but that also means more people are going to start making indy games involving mature themes similar to the one that drove people batshit crazy in the Lara Croft thread. Just like the film industry. I can't wait to see boundaries get pushed more and more. That is if the entire industry hasn't imploded upon itself by then.
Devolution
Member
It was a strawman because I never indicated I had no issue with her line of bullshit. My point, from the get go was that the language he was using was denigrating to every woman not just the one he happened to pick a fight with.
Count Dookkake
Member
.
Except nobody indicates that until they're called out on it.
Nobody's holding her feet to the fire over what she did.
It's only when somebody points out the blatant double standard - how vocal people get over Jim's hateful remarks, compared to the silence over her hateful remarks - that people come out and say "Well I don't like what she said either!"
That was my entire point.
Yeah, the white knighting argument can be pretty poor at times.
Cursed Frogurt
Banned
He called her a feminazi. He didn't call my wife one. His attacks were aimed directly at her. Using your logic, her attacks were also directed at me.
Devolution
Member
If they were misandrist they were aimed at you, what's your point.
I don't think anyone heard of that destructoid guy before. I certainly didn't.
cutmeamango
Banned
Thing is, they weren't. They were aimed at Jim Sterling, as he aimed his comments to her.
He even says: "You are an embarrassment to your gender and to feminazis 'sluts' (and humans)".
As in: Her as a person
The rest of their exchanges are offensive to each other. If you want to substitute her to every other person possible, any exchange of insults will be offensive to everyone. Because that's what an exchange of insults is.
No. I don't feel that games are a masculine concept; nor do I think that a woman is somehow less equipped to handle the development of a game than a man would be.
I only brought up that question, because we live in a time when a person can create a game on their own, or with a tiny team and get it published on Apple's App Store, many different places on PC or with XBLIG. Women can finally escape the culture of games companies not taking them seriously or holding them back because of their gender, yet I don't see a flood of independent female developers.
That's not to say that there aren't many females doing great work in the industry at the moment, because there most certainly are. I'm just saying that it seems like there are more men making independent games than there are women.
Cursed Frogurt
Banned
That calling him a misogynist for calling her a feminazi during a childish little twitter fight that she instigated isn't very bright. That there is the point.
Devolution
Member
A public display of insults that includes slurs is insulting to others who view. A professional should not use slurs or pejoratives regardless of how aggressive or insulting the target may be. It is not acceptable. I can't believe I am having this conversation.
Cursed Frogurt
Banned
And I can't believe the lines you're attempting to connect. You first claimed his attack was on all women, but now we're down to just the people that read it were the victims of his attack. I read it. I don't feel attacked by him or her. The fact remains that she attacked him, he attacked her, and neither of them attacked us. It's called having a stupid, infantile twitter slap fight. Attempting to turn that into she hates me, he hates you, is just wildly inaccurate.
Cursed Frogurt
Banned
The guy they fired represents the Destructoid brand though. Whether he's at work or not. The same Twitter account he uses while at work is the one he used while he wasn't.
cutmeamango
Banned
You have different standards of contextual participation then, that's all. And that's reasonable too.
I would never be insulted by two loudmouths if they do not refer to me. Even less so on twitter, where: I don't have to follow the users, I have the ability to close the window.
She emasculated him to the point of telling he can't even have sex if he pays. He calls her a vagina and an embarrassment to feminazi sluts. Who cares beyond those two dumbasses? Actual people that can't have sex even when paying, and self-categorized 'feminazi's (self-categorized as sluts or not
).Pachterballs
Banned
Lmao at all this. Douche didn't need to go after fD. She has a webtv thing about gaming of sorts.. It's terrible but hey, why hate on her. She's not the hottest things around but she's a decent female gamer/nerd
Still idiot cost himself a gig. Lol
Still idiot cost himself a gig. Lol
cutmeamango
Banned
140 characters. It channels stupidity (or filters it to simple terms).
Cursed Frogurt
Banned
It's as accessible as our phones. If they made it harder to use, fewer people would self-destruct.
Or maybe it's because people just send it like a regular text message, but they forget that their passive aggressive crap is going to be seen by everyone on the internets?
Meicyn
Gold Member
That's what makes Twitter such an amazing contribution to society. I certainly don't need a cable TV subscription for reality TV. It doesn't get more real than a Twitter-fight followed by an inevitable argument over said Twitter-fight across internet forums!
Cursed Frogurt
Banned
After reading his other tweets, it's pretty clear he didn't forget. He likes the attention.
Not acceptable to who? You? He's still got the gig.
So you didn't read the OP?
Edit: Oh, you're talking about Jim Sterling - I guess it will depend how much negative publicity he gets from it.
They're talking about Jim Sterling.
The Sterling thing happened months and months ago, think he'll be okay.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
I doubt that a number of YouTube video's or internet posts is going to empower anyone to storm the gates of anyplace, anywhere, anytime.
Besides, women are effectively withheld from every major position in this industry and the industry itself maintains a pro-masculine, anti-feminine discourse in the presumption of increasing sales. So that's not very likely to change overnight.
Quite right, you would be fired for it. But your boss wouldn't. Your employer (CEO) wouldn't. In fact: a lot of people would not be fired for appearing unprofessional at all.
Politicians might an odd category to bring in to this line of reasoning (since they are not privately engaged in a one-on-one relation with their employer), but they make unprofessional asses of themselves all the time and what does this get them? Votes. More then anyone should consider healthy for the political discourse of any nation. Point here being that power doesn't obey the rules of reasonability, civility or even social etiquette. Things that you (and I, despite what you might think) would consider normal without question. It's a reasonable assumption that nobody had to explicitly train you into become a well-behaved professional. It is very likely that you already possessed the traits associated with professionalism before you ever went to college / university.
What you are talking about is unfortunately not professionalism as defined in several theories, the main one being Max Weber's views of the professional bureaucrat, who follows rules, threats people in an impersonal manner, and so on.
No, when someone who works at a fastfood or cleaning company is asked to be and/ or behave like a professional, we are not talking about a neatly defined category within a tight theoretical framework. Low skill workers are not professionals by definition, after all (professionals are high skill, high education, high responsibility and so on type workers). So what we are talking about is a term that has become disconnected from the context in which it was conceived, meaning that we are talking about a type of independent cultural discourse, one that has nothing to do with the labor market or the actual work floor practices.
Cutting to the chase: when we refer to professionalism in the general domain, we are talking about a specific discourse of worker disempowerment, that allows unreasonable demands to be made of workers, clients and people in general.
examples:
"behave or get fired"
"smile or be fired"
"do as I say or be fired"
"be dispassionate or get fired"
Despite the clear fact that none of these are reasonable requests at all. They don't refer to anything human at all. And they sure as hell do not respect your mental faculties or self-expression to disagree, negotiate or even ask questions, like "why?".
Because clearly, philosophy is a useless major. (it isn't, this is in fact the power discourse talking, where every problem is irrational and psychological, despite these being metaphysical positions, which refer to a very specific philosophy or even ideology in this case).
I'm pretty sure I'm almost quoting Michel Foucault here on some things, but oh well.
With all that mind, I do not feel that a fool who says something silly should be shut down for ideological reasons (which, by extension, even shows a degree of implied incapability by people to deal with such thing on their own. Which everyone should be able to do as an adult!), but rather to be allowed to be shut down by the invoked party by using their own ability to do so with relative ease and effectiveness.
Which is like, a cake walk in this case.
We might say something like "she was busy", but then the quote would have been pointed out by someone else and the author might have felt a need to withdraw it from the public eye anyway. The fact that this is not even made possible or even allowed for that matter, says more about how little power people are still expected to yield over their own (mental!) lives, than it says anything about the actual proposition or content.
with this as a basis, replies on the next post in bolded.
There is probably a huge amount of spelling errors in there too, since I'm slightly -but apparently sufficiently- intoxicated at the time of this writing. Apologies in advance for any inconvenience that might have caused.
(professional enough?
)Veronica Belmont.
PrinceOfApathy
Banned
You have no idea how feminists operate do you? They haven't marched/stormed gates since the 60s' and won't be marching whole scale anytime soon. Why march when they can lobby the State against you and your entity to have it either banned, retrofitted to their whims, censored or made affirmative action pits.
The evil nefarious feminists.
PrinceOfApathy
Banned
The video-game industry has been in the political spheres before, in terms of violence and content numerous times. It isn't a logical leap, that if feminists were really serious, and targeted this industry as a cesspool of hostility, misogyny , oppression, rape support, disrespect and an abomination to human rights. They could and would lobby hard to get it torn down or altered. Listen to what I am telling you. They have achieved things that you thought were so outrageous before. Politicians want their votes, so they don't care how much of society they force to bend to their inclinations. Listen to what I'm telling you.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
THE SKY IS FALLING! WOMEN ARE UPSET ABOUT OUR FUCKED-UP INDUSTRY! LISTEN TO ME!
Devolution
Member
PrinceOfParanoia.